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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


Riaan

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But now for something completely different...

I want to stress this: any transliteration into Latin script (=our script) should stick to the original length of the lines in the manuscript, with commas, periods, tildes, line-breaks and all.

It might make it somewhat harder to read (and Otharus already added more readable versions of some pages, the ones I said were redundant), but we cannot be sure - skeptics and believers alike - where some lines (and/or words) end or start.

I agree. Correct transliteration, imo, is the first step in translation, but I shall leave that to people more knowledgeable on the subject.

The translation that I sent you, of course, is not a transliteration where one tries to convert text from one script to another, eg. from Fryan script to Roman script. I accepted the previous transliterations for better or for worse and then based my translation on that.(perhaps I should rather say my editing of previous translations). In the process I tried to convey the meaning of the original manuscript as accurate and simple as possible. It may well be that a more accurate transliteration could alter the translation as well. (I hope that makes sense).

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Yes, I think it sounds very reasonable that the leafs in the Frisian flag had some kind of special meaning.

Why would someone depict leaves in red? Maybe because these leaves do indeed resemble a heart? Leaves that had some kind of important meaning to the Frisians?

Perhaps they depict blood-stained leafs? (from their struggles for freedom?)

Perhaps Otharus could tell us more about the symbolism of the flag.

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Perhaps Otharus could tell us more about the symbolism of the flag.

In classical heraldry, these are the symbolic meanings of the colors:

Red - courage, sacrifice

White - loyalty, fidelity

Blue- truth, knowledge

More practically, red is much better recognizable from a distance on a flag or shield, than green.

The combination red-white-blue is still used in the flags of many nations, like:

Netherlands

United Kingdom

France

Norway

Iceland

United States

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Correct transliteration, imo, is the first step in translation, but I shall leave that to people more knowledgeable on the subject.

...

It may well be that a more accurate transliteration could alter the translation as well.

Alewyn, your translation of "FAM" into Matron, rather than priestess, maagd or virgin is an improvement.

I didn't read much yet, but I found one example of an edit from you that is actually the opposite of an improvement.

It is a fragment that was discussed several times in the forum, so first I will repeat (quotes edited):

(OLB page 6; FORMA SKEEDNISE or "Survivors of the Great Tsunami" p. 312; Chapter II, pt.10/11):

"... RING AS HJA RIP WEERON KREEION HJA FRUUCHDA AND NOCHTA ANDA DRAMA.

WR.ALDA.S OD TRAD TO RA BINNA. AND NW..."

Note that there is a point (.) between "DRAMA" and "WR.ALDA.S" and that there is no point between "WR.ALDA.S" and "OD".

The translations:

Ottema 1876 (dutch):

"Zoodra zij volwassen waren, kregen zij vermaak en genoegen in de droomen van Wralda.

Haat trad tot haar binnen."

Sandbach 1876 (english):

"As soon as they were full grown they took pleasure and delight in the visions of Wr-alda.

Hatred found its way among them."

Wirth 1933 (german):

(He just left out "RING ... DRAMA"!!!)

"Od (Gottes Odem) trat zu ihnen ein..."

Overwijn 1941 (dutch):

"Zodra zij volwassen waren, kregen zij vreugde en genoegen in de dromen van Wralda.

Geneugte kwam tot haar."

Jensma 1992 (dutch):

"Zodra zij volwassen waren, kregen ze vreugde en plezier in de dromen van Wralda.

Een spits trad in hun binnen, ..."

Snyman 1998 (afrikaans):

"En toe hulle volgroeid was, het hulle vreugde en genoegdoening geput uit die visioene van Wralda.

Haat het (egter) hulle harte binnegedring."

Jensma 2006 (dutch):

"Zo rap als ze rijp waren, kregen ze vreugde en genoten in Wralda's extase.

Gelukzaligheid trad tot hen binnen, ..."

de Heer 2008 (dutch):

"Zodra zij rijp waren kregen zij vreugde en genoegen en dromen.

Wralda's licht trad bij hen binnen, ..."

Note that de Heer (2008) is the first to correctly put the point between "dromen" and "Wralda´s".

Overview of the various translations of "OD":

Haat; Hatred (Ottema 1876, Sandbach 1876, Snyman 1998)

Gottes Odem; God´s breath (Wirth 1933)

Geneugte; pleasure (Overwijn 1941)

Een spits; a phallic object (Jensma 1992)

Gelukzaligheid; bliss (Jensma 2006)

Licht; light (de Heer 2008)

DISCUSSION

Ottema must have thought of the latin word "ODIUM" (meaning hatred) when he translated OD.

Od/Odr is a nordic root word meaning spirit, but in mythology is also the name of Freya´s lover or husband.

Logically, "od" might also have meant penis, semen or DNA, because after "od" penetrated the three young women, they became pregnant... It was probably an ambiguous, poetic word.

In my opinion it makes a huge difference if a creation myth says that our oldest ancestors were born out of hatred, or out of something more natural and hopefully even loving.

Apparently he [Cornelis Over de Linden] has helped Ottema solve several translating problems.

The following fragment of "De Gemaskerde God" (p.260 and footnotes) about this is interesting:

A good example also is the correspondence about the translation of the word 'Od' (the most discussed word from the whole OLB in its literature). [Here Jensma had placed a footnote, but this only reads: "cancelled"???]

Ottema initially thought this would mean something like 'misfortune' or 'bad luck'. But Over de Linden knew exactly what the correct meaning of the word was:

"... page 6 [of Ottema's translation] reads OD TRAD TO RA BINNA translated as 'bad luck passed through the door' [onluk trad (de) deur binnen]. [...] Shouldn't it be: OD nature, life-force, fertilising force, or an even better word, entered her?" [letter 5 November 1871]

The word OD is related to Oldsaxon "ôd" - fortune- or good luck-bringing force [gelukbrengende kracht]. The Dutch word for stork, 'ooievaar' might have been derived from this.

Ottema did not accept this correction, he changed his interpretation and derived the word from Latin 'Odi' = I hate.

I find it absurd that Ottema ignored Over de Linden's suggestion and chose for the Latin "od" (hate) rather than the old-Saxon "ôd" (fortune or life-force) in his translation of "OD" in the creation myth. (In old-Norse it appears to have meant 'spirit', which would also fit more into the context than 'hate'.)

I can think of two possible explanations.

First, that he might have had the preconceived idea that the creation myth should have an 'original sin' type of element in it; pregnancy means bad luck?!

Second, that he might have felt embarrassed with any association to fertility.

wraldasoddots.jpg

In the transliteration and translation of this fragment, two mistakes were made by Ottema, that were copied by Sandbach and not corrected by Alewyn Raubenheimer.

1) The point between DRAMA and WR.ALDA.S was moved and placed between WR.ALDA.S and OD.

2) The word OD was translated as "haat"/ "hatred", based on Latin "odium", rather than on the Old-Norse or Old-Saxon "od"/ "odr" that has a positive meaning (spirit, life-force, fortune, etc).

Transliteration Ottema (1876):

"Ring as hja rip wêron krêjon hja früchda ånd nochta anda drâma Wr.aldas. Od trâd to-ra binna:"

Transliteration Otharus (2011):

"... RING AS HJA RIP WÉRON KRÉION HJA FRÜCHDA ÀND NOCHTA ANDA DRÁMA. WR.ALDA.S OD TRAD TO RA BINNA."

Translation Ottema (1876):

"Zoodra zij volwassen waren, kregen zij vermaak en genoegen in de droomen van Wralda. Haat trad tot haar binnen."

Translation Sandbach (1876):

"As soon as they were full grown they took pleasure and delight in the visions of Wr-alda. Hatred found its way among them."

Edited translation Alewyn Raubenheimer (2011):

"When she was full grown she took pleasure and delight in the visions of Wralda. Hatred entered them."

"Hja wêron rip" = they were ripe (plural), which also makes sense in the context of THREE mothers.

But what I really don't understand, is how anyone can make sense out of conception being caused by "hatred" entering a woman.

One may say, it's only a creation myth, but I repeat: it makes a huge difference if you believe that our ancestors believed life started out of hatred (or an angry god punishing our oldest ancestors by casting them out of paradise), or that you have a more positive and natural approach to the origin of life.

Edited by Otharus
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Let us hope, that you do not take yourself seriously with this.

Hahaha!! I had been watching "National Treasure" (with Nicolas Cage) on Dutch televison (or the BBC, I forgot), and at some point he said something like, "Those numbers... they are coordinates." I didn't see much of the movie after I ran to my computer to try out the OLB numbers!

Whatever combination I tried, most times I ended up in the middle of the Atlantic, and a couple of times in eastern Africa.

Well, that of course cooled me down considerably, but imagine I had ended up in Leeuwarden or Enkuizen or some other city mentioned in the OLB or in connection with the OLB.

++++++

EDIT:

I hope you didn't miss this line in my post:

"Btw: do not forget about 'right ascension' and 'declination' of stars/planets."

If I am right (and that's a big IF) then someone interested in astrology/astronomy/navigation, might have left clues in the form of coordinates.

http://www.sky-watch.com/astronomy-guide/finding-celestial-sphere.html

celsphere.gif

.

Edited by Abramelin
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I agree. Correct transliteration, imo, is the first step in translation, but I shall leave that to people more knowledgeable on the subject.

The translation that I sent you, of course, is not a transliteration where one tries to convert text from one script to another, eg. from Fryan script to Roman script. I accepted the previous transliterations for better or for worse and then based my translation on that.(perhaps I should rather say my editing of previous translations). In the process I tried to convey the meaning of the original manuscript as accurate and simple as possible. It may well be that a more accurate transliteration could alter the translation as well. (I hope that makes sense).

Another thing I noticed in the original text - and I am sure all of you have noticed - is that sometimes it is not really clear a space was used between words. Then, what most times happened, is that those who transliterated left out or added a space, depending on their interpretation of the text.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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The uraeus was the image of the Egyptian cobra (Naja haje), worn in the front of the king's headdress. Here the snake represents the snake goddess Wadjet, associated with the Lower Egyptian sanctuary of Buto. Her counterpart was the vulture goddess Nekhbet of Hierakonpolis in Upper Egypt. Wadjet acted as a mythical mother and midwife of the king. At Tuna el-Gebel, mummified cobras have been found amongst the millions of other animals in the great animal catacombs.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/snakesofegypt.htm

So the Uraeus (plural Uraei or Uraeuses, from the Greek οὐραῖος, from Egyptian jʿr.t (iaret) "rearing cobra")

is a snake which represents the sun

and ouranos is osiris which means 'many eyes'.

I cant help but think that all these are interrelated.

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Well Menno, as crazy as my guess my sound, I asked on an astronomy forum here if there was indeed a fixed star with the right ascension (RA) and declination around 1850 CE on this position: RA 34:49 degrees / DEC 12:56 degrees.

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Menno, you said "Lumka-makia" was some cliff on Helgoland.

The OLB "Wodin" was living with his parents in East Flyland, near the "Ee-mude", in a place called "Lumka-makia".

In an old post I suggested a place in Friesland - Lemmer - where people practised 'whaling' ("kamakia" is Greek for harpoon).

Well, please read this:

Lemmer

WALVISSLACHTER/ whale butcher

http://www.mijnwoordenboek.nl/puzzelwoordenboek/walvisslachter/1

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/lemmet2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmer

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmer

"kamakia" is Greek for harpoon

The spelling of the city is "Emden", and yes, it sounds close to E-mude.

But look closely at the way it is written in the OLB: E - mude.. or... the "mouth of the river Ee".

There was a small river with the name Ee... and it's mouth lay near a city called Lemmer.

Well, that doesn't sound much like "Lumka-makia", right?

OK, so I checked for maybe an older name, and this is what they think Lemmer was called centuries ago: Lemmerbroek or Lammerbroek.

In het jaar 1165 geeft bisschop Godfried van Utrecht aan de Friezen van

Lammerbroek een stuk grond in het stroomgebied van de Tjonger. Die grond lag tussen de oude loop van de Linde en Kuinre. Het is zeer waarschijnlijk dat diezelfde Friezen - van Lammerhoek of Lemsterhoek - op verzoek van de abt van het St. Oduifusklooster in Staveren de loop van de Kromme Ee bij Tacozijl hebben verbeterd en als ter zake kundigen later het Lindegebied onder handen namen in opdracht van die abt, die in dienst was van de bisschop van Utrecht. Van dit bisdom was Kuinre als 't ware een kolonie.

De Kromme Ee was vroeger een belangrijke verbinding tussen de Middelzee en het meer Flevo.

http://www.friesarchiefnet.nl/index.php?view=article&id=78&option=com_content

http://www.spanvis.nl/Lemstersluis%20eertijds%20Lemsterzijl/index.htm

In English:

In the year 1165 Bishop Godfried (LOL) of Utrecht gave a piece of land to the Frisians of Lammerbroek in the basin (?) of the river Tjonger

And the "Kromme Ee" is "Crooked/Bent/Curved Ee" in English, and it was an important connection between the Middel Sea and the Flevo Lake (future IJsselmeer).

So the city at the mouth of the Ee ("E-mude") was called "Lammerbroek" or ""Lemmerbroek" long ago; nowadays it's called "Lemmer".

It was also near that other 'interesting' river: the Linde, and located in the socalled "Lindegebied" = Linden area = Lindenoorden, heh.

My guess? "Lumkamakia" was a nickname for a city.

And the "kamakia" part makes me think of something, despite the fact that the name is written in the OLB like this, "Lumka-makia".

+++++++

EDIT:

"Lumka" or "Lumke" is a Frisian girl's name.

"Makia"?

mak-ia 70 und häufiger?, mek-k-ia, mait-ia, meit-ia, afries., sw. V. (2): nhd.

machen, reparieren, bauen, festsetzen, gerichtlich entscheiden, freisprechen,

verurteilen, beschuldigen, verklagen, erklären, erweisen, unter etwas bringen,

pfänden; ne. make (V.), repair (V.), build (V.), decide, accuse (V.), declare; Vw.:

s. for-, *lÆk-, ðt-, wi-ther-; Hw.: s. mek; vgl. ae. macian, anfrk. makon, as. makon*,

ahd. mahhæn; Q.: R, B, E, H, W, F, S; E.: germ. *makæn, sw. V., machen, kneten;

idg. *ma-, V., kneten, drücken, streichen, machen, Pokorny 696; W.: nfries.

maaikjen, V., machen; L.: Hh 68b, Rh 914b

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-M.pdf

LOL, maybe someone had a problem with a Frisian girl named "Lumka". And why?

"Kamakia" is Greek for "Harpoon".

"My sweatheart, Lumka, the harpoon".

Lum-ka-kamakia.......

Btw: ([damned if I can find it again, but I read somewhere that) Lemmer was once a city in Friesland where whalers lived (think "harpoon").

Now a bit about the astronomy connection I keep annoying people with, lol:

Cetus_Lubieniecki1.jpg

Engraving from Stanislas Lubienieki's Theatrum cometicum. Cetus attempting to swallow Taurus.

Notice that Lubienieki has plotted a harpoon-straight comet's course into mouth of Cetus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lubieniecki

Those 'coordinates' I think were in the OLB end up near the constellation of either Taurus (Bull) or Cetus (Whale).

I am not at all sure about that, but I want this for the record.

+++

EDIT:

Menno, one of your objections against my theory wss that "Lumka-makia" was east of Stavoren, and that Lemmer was not.

But Lemmer is almost exactly east of Stavoren. Your Helgoland is not; it's north-east of Stavoren.

Lemmer-Stavoren.jpg

And Lemmer was located near the mouth of a (no longer existing) river called "Ee": the Ee-mude (Ee-mouth).

Stavoren-Helgoland:

Stavoren-Helgoland.jpg

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Imagine I am right about Taurus.

'Atlantis' was ruled by the sign of Taurus.

The Finda and Magyar came from Atland.

Atland was near the Himalayas, Hindu territory.. the country of the sacred bull.

The Magyar - thinking about what Puzz posted many times - introduced sacred bulls into Europe.

Yeah, I may not agree much with what Puzz posts all of the time, but she sure makes me think.

I tend to connect dots too.

But I also think the one creating the OLB had some sort of connection with the sign of Taurus.

It may have been his starsign, or it was something else.

++

EDIT:

I am a bit off now. Please take that into account, lol.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Menno, you said "Lumka-makia" was some cliff on Helgoland.

The OLB "Wodin" was living with his parents in East Flyland, near the "Ee-mude", in a place called "Lumka-makia".

In an old post I suggested a place in Friesland - Lemmer - where people practised 'whaling' ("kamakia" is Greek for harpoon).

Well, please read this:

Lemmer

WALVISSLACHTER/ whale butcher

http://www.mijnwoord...alvisslachter/1

http://www.etymologi...efwoord/lemmet2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmer

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmer

"kamakia" is Greek for harpoon

Now a bit about the astronomy connection I keep annoying people with, lol:

Cetus_Lubieniecki1.jpg

Engraving from Stanislas Lubienieki's Theatrum cometicum. Cetus attempting to swallow Taurus.

Notice that Lubienieki has plotted a harpoon-straight comet's course into mouth of Cetus.

http://en.wikipedia....2aw_Lubieniecki

Those 'coordinates' I think were in the OLB end up near the constellation of either Taurus (Bull) or Cetus (Whale).

I am not at all sure about that, but I want this for the record.

+++

EDIT:

Menno, one of your objections against my theory wss that "Lumka-makia" was east of Stavoren, and that Lemmer was not.

But Lemmer is almost exactly east of Stavoren. Your Helgoland is not; it's north-east of Stavoren.

Lemmer-Stavoren.jpg

And Lemmer was located near the mouth of a (no longer existing) river called "Ee": the Ee-mude (Ee-mouth).

Stavoren-Helgoland:

Stavoren-Helgoland.jpg

.

We tried to find a place Lumkamakja in the mouth of the river Eems, but we had no success. A place Lumkamaja has not been found either under the sunken places in the Eems-Dollart. It was a good idea to look at Lemmer, because of another river Ee, which reaches from the Middle sea to the later Zuiderzee, but it did not fit in the picture of the OLB, bacause Wodin was picked up in Danmark and they reached in no time Scandinavia. Therefore I looked at Heligoland, wich belonged to Frisia and wich is close to Denmark and Scandinavia. Fortunately I found the area of the Lummen cliffs, which reminded me on the Red Cliff near Stavoren, where the Frisian god Stavo was celebrated by throwing people down from the cliff. Alcuin reports similar happenings on Heligoland, which name is Holy Land. Tempels of Wodin have been located on Heligoland and on Iceland. A reference to the Greek word kamakia-harpoon I can not support. I have not yet found a similar word in Oldfrisian, maybe something like hameth - cut off.

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You will HAVE to admit that what I posted is 'too close for comfort'.

Lemmer was a city from where people sailed out to hunt whales.

"Lemmer" means 'whale butcher'.

"Kamakia" (Lumka-makia) is Greek for "harpoon".

And the OLB is about nothing else but an attempt to connect ancient Greek with ancient Frisian history.

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Well Menno, as crazy as my guess my sound, I asked on an astronomy forum here if there was indeed a fixed star with the right ascension (RA) and declination around 1850 CE on this position: RA 34:49 degrees / DEC 12:56 degrees.

I did not refer to your astronomical contributions (as I have no idea of astronomy), but, that you make years to coordinates. Besides the whole OLB does not give any idea at all, that it would contain a hidden message. That's what Cornelis over de Linden thought. He hoped to find the location of a family treasure.

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I did not refer to your astronomical contributions (as I have no idea of astronomy), but, that you make years to coordinates. Besides the whole OLB does not give any idea at all, that it would contain a hidden message. That's what Cornelis over de Linden thought. He hoped to find the location of a family treasure.

Well, there we differ.

If the OLB is a fabrication, I think it is not too farfetched to assume there is some message hidden inside the text.

There are hints to astronomy/astrology/navigation, and you know who would be the first suspect concerning that.

No one here had a true answer about the OLB "watchstars".

Everyone here just skipped the OLB mention of people watching the stars on top of those towers in the middle of their citadels, or those 'watchstars'.

The "Kroder" is nothing but the "Big Dipper" circling around the Polar Star.

And then we have many accounts of sailors in the OLB, or 'sea-kings'.

Man, I saw so many hints at sea navigation and astronomy, that it amazes me not one of you noticed it too.

Now WHO had anything to do with sea navigation?

I guess that would be a ""Van der Linden".

.

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Alewyn, your translation of "FAM" into Matron, rather than priestess, maagd or virgin is an improvement.

I didn't read much yet, but I found one example of an edit from you that is actually the opposite of an improvement.

It is a fragment that was discussed several times in the forum, so first I will repeat (quotes edited):

wraldasoddots.jpg

In the transliteration and translation of this fragment, two mistakes were made by Ottema, that were copied by Sandbach and not corrected by Alewyn Raubenheimer.

1) The point between DRAMA and WR.ALDA.S was moved and placed between WR.ALDA.S and OD.

2) The word OD was translated as "haat"/ "hatred", based on Latin "odium", rather than on the Old-Norse or Old-Saxon "od"/ "odr" that has a positive meaning (spirit, life-force, fortune, etc).

Transliteration Ottema (1876):

"Ring as hja rip wêron krêjon hja früchda ånd nochta anda drâma Wr.aldas. Od trâd to-ra binna:"

Transliteration Otharus (2011):

"... RING AS HJA RIP WÉRON KRÉION HJA FRÜCHDA ÀND NOCHTA ANDA DRÁMA. WR.ALDA.S OD TRAD TO RA BINNA."

Translation Ottema (1876):

"Zoodra zij volwassen waren, kregen zij vermaak en genoegen in de droomen van Wralda. Haat trad tot haar binnen."

Translation Sandbach (1876):

"As soon as they were full grown they took pleasure and delight in the visions of Wr-alda. Hatred found its way among them."

Edited translation Alewyn Raubenheimer (2011):

"When she was full grown she took pleasure and delight in the visions of Wralda. Hatred entered them."

"Hja wêron rip" = they were ripe (plural), which also makes sense in the context of THREE mothers.

But what I really don't understand, is how anyone can make sense out of conception being caused by "hatred" entering a woman.

One may say, it's only a creation myth, but I repeat: it makes a huge difference if you believe that our ancestors believed life started out of hatred (or an angry god punishing our oldest ancestors by casting them out of paradise), or that you have a more positive and natural approach to the origin of life.

I support your idea, that hatred is a wrong word. The explanation Odr would bring the OLB into the Nordic Mythology, which you earlier opposed to. Earlier I thought of Adam, but maybe the explanation is even simpler as the H is frequently left out in words starting with a vocal. Hod = hoede (caution).

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Alewyn, your translation of "FAM" into Matron, rather than priestess, maagd or virgin is an improvement.

I didn't read much yet, but I found one example of an edit from you that is actually the opposite of an improvement.

It is a fragment that was discussed several times in the forum, so first I will repeat (quotes edited):

wraldasoddots.jpg

In the transliteration and translation of this fragment, two mistakes were made by Ottema, that were copied by Sandbach and not corrected by Alewyn Raubenheimer.

1) The point between DRAMA and WR.ALDA.S was moved and placed between WR.ALDA.S and OD.

2) The word OD was translated as "haat"/ "hatred", based on Latin "odium", rather than on the Old-Norse or Old-Saxon "od"/ "odr" that has a positive meaning (spirit, life-force, fortune, etc).

Transliteration Ottema (1876):

"Ring as hja rip wêron krêjon hja früchda ånd nochta anda drâma Wr.aldas. Od trâd to-ra binna:"

Transliteration Otharus (2011):

"... RING AS HJA RIP WÉRON KRÉION HJA FRÜCHDA ÀND NOCHTA ANDA DRÁMA. WR.ALDA.S OD TRAD TO RA BINNA."

Translation Ottema (1876):

"Zoodra zij volwassen waren, kregen zij vermaak en genoegen in de droomen van Wralda. Haat trad tot haar binnen."

Translation Sandbach (1876):

"As soon as they were full grown they took pleasure and delight in the visions of Wr-alda. Hatred found its way among them."

Edited translation Alewyn Raubenheimer (2011):

"When she was full grown she took pleasure and delight in the visions of Wralda. Hatred entered them."

"Hja wêron rip" = they were ripe (plural), which also makes sense in the context of THREE mothers.

But what I really don't understand, is how anyone can make sense out of conception being caused by "hatred" entering a woman.

One may say, it's only a creation myth, but I repeat: it makes a huge difference if you believe that our ancestors believed life started out of hatred (or an angry god punishing our oldest ancestors by casting them out of paradise), or that you have a more positive and natural approach to the origin of life.

Fam - Matron is not an improvement. Even in modern Frisian language fam means female servant.

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WRALDAS OD

wraldasoddots.jpg

Wraldas od trad tora binna - Wralda's roede trad bij hen binnen.

od < hod - hoede 1. voorzichtigheid Eng. caution, 2. banier, vlaggestok, banner. Dutch hoede = Lat. cauda - penis, Eng. rod, Dutch roede.

s. Oldfrisian hoda-hoeden

Edited by Knul
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WRALDAS OD

wraldasoddots.jpg

Wraldas od trad tora binna - Wralda's roede trad bij hen binnen.

od < hod - hoede 1. voorzichtigheid Eng. caution, 2. banier, vlaggestok, banner. Dutch hoede = Lat. cauda - penis, Eng. rod, Dutch roede.

s. Oldfrisian hoda-hoeden

Yes, that makes much more sense! Thanks for that, Knul.

The 'head' of a penis (flagpole/ staff/ shaft) surely looks like a hood/ hat/ helmet.

But I would not completely rule out a connection with the Oldnorse/ Saxon "od".

The OLB language is full of ambiguities anyway.

Would the words "rod" and "hod" (and "mod"?) somehow be related to "od"?

Great rhyme-words...

So here's a new improvised English translation:

Soon as they were ripe, they got fruits/ joy (dutch: vruchten/ vreugden) and nuts/ pleasure (dutch: noten/ geneugten) in their dreams.

Wralda's rod (or spirit/ life-force) entered them, and now they gave birth to 12 suns and 12 daughters, each Joltime twins.

Thereof all people have come (descended).

Transliteration original text (manuscript page 6):

RING AS HJA RIP WÉRON KRÉJON HJA FRÜCHDA ÀND NOCHTA ANDA DRÁMA.

WR.ALDAS OD TRÀD TO RA BINNA.

ÀND NW BÀRDON EK TWILIF SVNA ÀND TWILIF TOGETHERA. EK JOL.TID TWÉN.

THÉROF SEND ALLE MÀNNESKA KÉMEN.

Edited by Otharus
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Even in modern Frisian language fam means female servant.

That is not quite correct.

In modern Frisian it means "woman", but in the OLB the context indicates that it was more of an honorary title, something like "lady" (dutch "vrouwe", which would be related to "freya").

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That is not quite correct.

In modern Frisian it means "woman", but in the OLB the context indicates that it was more of an honorary title, something like "lady" (dutch "vrouwe", which would be related to "freya").

You should look under faam or faamwezen: doet thuis het dienstbodenwerk, het als dienstbode dienen. Accidentally I have family photographs from the 1920's, which indicate the person in combination with 'her faam'. See also: http://www.majstro.c...Nederlands/faam. info.gif faamzelfstandig naamwoordinfo.gifdienareszelfstandig naamwoord; info.gifdienstbodezelfstandig naamwoord; info.gifdienstmeisjezelfstandig naamwoord; info.gifmeidzelfstandig naamwoord; info.gifdienstmeidzelfstandig naamwoordinfo.gifservistinozelfstandig naamwoordinfo.gif faamzelfstandig naamwoordinfo.gifmaagdzelfstandig naamwoord

The OLB uses an other word for lady, namely fro(w) - vrouwe. Thju moder ne thvrade hjra joi (75) navt wachtja, joi nomath tha stjurar wiva hira mâna, thaet is blideskip, ak segsath hja swêthirte. Tha stjurar hêton hjra wiva trâst, aend fro jefta frow thaet is frü âk frolik, thaet is êlik an frü.

Edited by Knul
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Menno, you said "Lumka-makia" was some cliff on Helgoland.

The OLB "Wodin" was living with his parents in East Flyland, near the "Ee-mude", in a place called "Lumka-makia".

In an old post I suggested a place in Friesland - Lemmer - where people practised 'whaling' ("kamakia" is Greek for harpoon).

Well, please read this:

Lemmer

WALVISSLACHTER/ whale butcher

http://www.mijnwoordenboek.nl/puzzelwoordenboek/walvisslachter/1

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/lemmet2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmer

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmer

"kamakia" is Greek for harpoon

Now a bit about the astronomy connection I keep annoying people with, lol:

Cetus_Lubieniecki1.jpg

Engraving from Stanislas Lubienieki's Theatrum cometicum. Cetus attempting to swallow Taurus.

Notice that Lubienieki has plotted a harpoon-straight comet's course into mouth of Cetus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lubieniecki

Those 'coordinates' I think were in the OLB end up near the constellation of either Taurus (Bull) or Cetus (Whale).

I am not at all sure about that, but I want this for the record.

+++

EDIT:

Menno, one of your objections against my theory wss that "Lumka-makia" was east of Stavoren, and that Lemmer was not.

But Lemmer is almost exactly east of Stavoren. Your Helgoland is not; it's north-east of Stavoren.

Lemmer-Stavoren.jpg

And Lemmer was located near the mouth of a (no longer existing) river called "Ee": the Ee-mude (Ee-mouth).

Stavoren-Helgoland:

Stavoren-Helgoland.jpg

.

If whale harpooning was done at Lemmer, I think this is a good find myself.

Lem/Lum-kamakia - a name which means a place of whale harpooning...became Lemmer.

I have no idea more about kamakia, except they are Greek men who are there for women tourists, like harpoons. It could be like ka makia, anyone find anymore on this word?

The word might not be exclusively Greek but I don't know.

I do however think Lemmer could be Lumka-makia.

---------------

A long off strange connection to Minno though.

Bottiaeans or Bottiaei (Greek: Βοττιαῖοι) were an ancient people of uncertain origin, living in Central Macedonia.

According to Strabo, Bottiaeans were Cretan immigrants from Iapygia,

There were between six and twelve Bottiaean cities: Spartolos, Kalindoia, Kamakai, Tripoiai, Haioleion and Olynthos (until 479 ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottiaeans

Kamakai, maybe a Cretan name, a kind of form of Kamakia, I gather they didn't harpoon whales in Central Macedonia but the word could still be the same. Long shot but thought I'd mention it anyway.

Might be an interesting pdf, Frisian shipmasters

: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:jcOekmoPUecJ:www.soundtoll.nl/www/files/STEENBEEK.pdf+Lemmer+whaling+Friesland&hl=en&gl=au&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESh41KCO7z_2I8Y7qgld5wqbxdazrvidbExpymYhvJFr1SsNoNSVPm8AAVKae2IUTXu5TiUTzs0RQpfrrtvPP5azmmy0JORqinAJIwnh7HkCAa1ssM94TJWmhOHA-ps5LIX8rSZX&sig=AHIEtbRNmAFBwuTpNpqzD_73bCfFSw1U9Q

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Cetus_Lubieniecki1.jpg

Such a great picture - look, the River Eridanus, where Phaethon falls into, maybe Phaethon is Orion... :huh:

Orion plays some huge part in all this, I know it, as the Spindle of Freya, he makes time.

2200BC is timeframe given for the Age of Taurus ending.

only three World Ages have taken place. These are the Ages of Taurus (about 4400 - 2200 B.C.), Aries (2200 - 0 B.C.) and Pisces, the current era (about 1 - 2200 A.D.). In the Taurean Age, according to de Santillana, the Bull was worshipped as the chief religious symbol. In the Arian, it was the Ram or Lamb, and, in the Piscean, it is the Fishes, though this practice has been mostly forgotten now.

http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterEight/MillOfTimePartOne.htm

In the year in Taurus: (Spring - Nth) (Autumn - Sth)

The vernal equinox (equal day/night) occurs then. Incidentally, the date of Easter itself is fixed by an approximation of lunar cycles used in the Hebraic calendar, but according to the historian Bede the name comes from a pagan celebration by the Germanic tribes of the vernal (spring) equinox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox

March equinox commemorations

Bas-relief in Persepolis - a symbol Iranian/Persian Nowruz - on the day of an equinox, the power of an eternally fighting bull (personifying the Earth) and that of a lion (personifying the Sun) are equal.

Chichen Itza pyramid during the spring equinox - Kukulkan, the famous descent of the snakeNear East

The March equinox marks the first day of various calendars including the Iranian calendar. The ancient Iranian new year's festival of Nowruz can be celebrated March 20 or March 21. According to the ancient Persian mythology Jamshid, the mythological king of Persia, ascended to the throne on this day and each year this is commemorated with festivities for two weeks. These festivities recall the story of creation and the ancient cosmology of Iranian and Persian people. It is also a holiday celebrated in Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Turkey, Zanzibar, Albania, and various countries of Central Asia, as well as among the Kurds. As well as being a Zoroastrian holiday, it is also a holy day for adherents of the Bahá'í Faith and the Nizari Ismaili Muslims.[5] The Bahá'í Naw-rúz is stationary; the new year always starts at sunset March 20.[6]

Sham El Nessim was an ancient Egyptian holiday which can be traced back as far as 2700 BC. It is still one of the public holidays in Egypt. Sometime during Egypt's Christian period (c. 200-639) the date moved to Easter Monday, but before then it coincided with the vernal equinox.

In many Arab countries, Mother's Day is celebrated on the March equinox

Mother's Day...

The fighting Bull (Earth) and the Lion (Sun) are equal. They recall the story of Creation and the ancient cosmology of the Iranian and Persian people. Interesting.

Since it has a connection with Easter (Jesus death/dying) it seems a very important ancient time.

Abrahamic tradition

The Jewish Passover usually falls on the first full moon after the Northern Hemisphere vernal equinox, although occasionally (7 times every 19 years) it will occur on the second full moon.

The Christian churches calculate Easter as the first Sunday after the first full moon on or after the March equinox. The official church definition for the equinox is March 21; however, as the Eastern Orthodox Churches use the older Julian calendar, while the Western Churches use the Gregorian calendar, both of which designate March 21 as the equinox, the actual date of Easter differs. The earliest possible Easter date in any year is therefore March 22 on each calendar. The latest possible Easter date in any year is April 25.

The disablot is held is Scandinavia: The Scandinavian dísablót is associated with the Anglo-Saxon modranect ("mothers' night") by Gabriel Turville-Petre.[13] The Anglo-Saxon month roughly equivalent to November was called blot-monath.

Although Snorri Sturluson does not mention the dísir in the Prose Edda, he does list Vanadís—'dís of the Vanir'— as a name for Freyja, and öndurdís—'snow-shoe dís'—as a name for Skaði.[23] Lotte Motz suggested that dís was the original Old Norse word for 'goddess' and had been replaced later by ásynja, which is simply the feminine of áss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%ADsabl%C3%B3t

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%ADsir

Back to the astrological card.

Cetus is interesting there - as the Fryan Athenians were called 'sea monsters' by the new Magyar following Athenians.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Maybe the OLB story is in the sky...at 2194BC?

I was drawn to the Equinox - that is how the Ages are worked out, whichever Zodiac sign comes up at sunrise on the Equinox, as they change, the 'Ages' change - so around 2194BC, it's in Taurus here.

Then the description in the manuscript says: "During the whole summer the sun had been hid behind the clouds, as if unwilling to look upon the earth. There was perpetual calm, and the damp mist hung like a wet sail over the houses and the marshes. The air was heavy and oppressive, and in men’s hearts was neither joy nor cheerfulness. In the midst of this stillness the earth began to tremble as if she was dying."

Which indicates that this occurred after Summer - which in the North is obviously June, July, August then September would fit exactly in this timeframe.

Here is 23rd September 2194BC, I started noticing on the eve of the p.m on the 22nd (Equinox) that Mars starts to rise in the South East (war/terror/bloodshed is approaching) appearing in the sky - then the Bull (Taurus) is seen coming up - (the arrival of the Bull cult from the East)

Map2392194bc.jpg

This is 12.51am looking East from Sweden.

Then Orion appears, with 2 weapons (one of copper, others of stone?).

As morning approaches, Mercury rises in Virgo - that could mean Fasta, a possible Virgin messenger scribe (Mercury as Hermes/Thoth).

The Sun appears at 5.30am - on the cusp of Virgo and Libra - the Moon also rises this day, after the Sun. Virgo and Libra are usually associated with the virgin maiden of laws - Astraea. The Sun in this position could indicate the influence of this aspect.

Morning 9.00am 23rd September 2194BC

Map2392194bc9am.jpg

Jupiter sits on the exact 12hr Equinox line under all that. I'm pretty sure having the Sun and Moon and Jupiter in a line on the Equinox means something. Maybe some sort of story can be found the more one looks.

------------------------

Here's some interesting calculations to keep in mind:

The Sun, of course, circuits the Zodiac in one year and defines the seasons as it goes, so the year is bound to be one of the fundamental units or cycles of time. Saturn takes nearly 30 years and Jupiter nearly 12 years to complete their cycles. The numbers, 30 and 12, have clearly been very important in setting up our temporal and spatial units and coordinates.

Is it because Jupiter takes 12 years to move around the Zodiac that there are 12 constellations instead of some other number? Multiplying 12 by 30 gives 360, the number of degrees in a circle or a Zodiac of 12 signs of 30 degrees each. On the Equinoxes we have 12 hours each of daylight and night. The day has 24 hours (twice 12) of 60 minutes (twice 30) each. The number 360 is also close to the number of days in a year. The ancients had a calendar of 12 months of exactly 30 days each, the extra five days inserted between calendars being dedicated to the Lord of Misrule because they didn't fit in to the system. This was the festival period of the Saturnalia when the normal order was suspended and the fool was paraded as mock king.

Even the association of the Greek god Zeus with the planet Jupiter or Kronos with Saturn has been resisted by specialists in language, for example, specialism being another sign of the separatism and non-integration of modern science. Some have resisted the phonetic connection between the Greek name for Saturn, Kronos, and the root of English words related to time, such as 'chronic' and 'chronometer.'

http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterEight/MillOfTimePartOne.htm

He then goes to tell the time that the Magi may have seen 'the star in the East' - which could be a possible conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which by the way, was considered a comet (that is, planet conjunctions) by the Pythagoreans, see Meteorology, Aristotle.

Edited by The Puzzler
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How about this? 101 years after the submersion of Atland at the time of the Juulfest - I did 100 years, forgot it was 101, anyway, maybe if it goes from Equinox 2194BC to Equinox 2094BC, by Dec it could be seen as 101 years - at 2094BC at the Juulfest (25th December) you see this:

Map25122094bc.jpg

At Shiraz, Iran - 7.22am.

What appears to be an Eclipse of the Sun by the Moon, on sunrise at the Winter Solstice. At the 120 degree mark, in Capricorn/Goat. Next to rise is Venus.

At 7.12am, they are directly eclipsed and right on the horizon. You would then see Mercury in the sky, which could be some sort of meaning.

Anyway, all very interesting.

Edited by The Puzzler
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