[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Otharus]

But the OLB suggests (see my post) "Wara" is about wares: merchandize, valuables, "stuff".

No it's also about "bewaren" (hold/ protect), like here:

[105/06]

EN SLECHT ÀND WARANDA LINDA WITH THA SVNNE.STRÉLUM

[Otharus]

It was a Basque writer who had returned to his hometown, visited a local library and found a 17th or 16th cntury old family chronicle of his family of which he claimed that it went back to 'times immemorial'. He didn't say anything further about it, and went on to say he had used it as a basis for his novel (fiction).

So it wasn't made public?

[Abramelin]

So it wasn't made public?

No, he only mentioned he had found an ancient family chronicle:

The Lords of Navarre - José Lacambra-Loizu (from the book's Preface, page xxiii)

During a recent visit to my ancestral home in the Spanish Pyrenees, I happened across a sixteenth century manuscript claiming family roots that dated back to "time immemorial." This startling discovery encouraged me to anchor this chronicle in the prehistoric past, describing a journey spanning the last glacial age to the present. It narrates the meandering of a family of Vascon warlords, the Agorretas, as they grope their way out of the prehistoric mists and into the glare of history.

http://www.buber.net/Basque/Features/GuestColumns/jml040624.php

http://www.amazon.com/Lords-Navarre-Basque-Family-Saga/dp/0595311482#_

http://books.google.nl/books?id=R0UZsM6--BgC&pg=PA395&lpg=PA395&dq=The+Lords+of+Navarre:+A+Basque+Family+Saga+Door+Jose+Maria+Lacambra-Loizu&source=bl&ots=E1UOufzfs6&sig=BD0m3b6OvIwQ28-qQgAxl7E8fus&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=JjohT4XOOsmfOo_a_KYI&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false

My post 9694, page 647

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=9690

It doesn't even say it is HIS family chronicle, just "A" family chronicle.

I should think this would make the hearts of the OLB fans beat a little faster, don't you think so too?

.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

I should think this would make the hearts of the OLB fans beat a little faster, don't you think so too?

They're not all as dupable as you seem to think.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

They're not all as dupable as you seem to think.

I asked you to stop that bull, but somehow it is stronger than you.

And NO, I did not suggest that in my former post.

And if I - one of the most notorious skeptics in this thread - find out more about that Basque family chronicle, I will post about it.

Just believe me, I will.

+++++++

EDIT:

Do you know what "Lacambra" means?

"La Cambra" means 'sorcerer'.

Now that is a start, lol.

My whole website is about 'sorcerers' (Castaneda style).

.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

I asked you to stop that bull, but somehow it is stronger than you.

You are right, I was being oversensitive, it wasn't ment that nasty anyway.

"OLB fans", that may include some of the skeptics.

Did I ever share here that after I had read the OLB for the first time, I was skeptic about it for a long time, and that only later, after studying it some more, I decided that it's more unlikely that it was made up, than that it is real?

Edited February 4, 2012 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

You are right, I was being oversensitive, it wasn't ment that nasty anyway.

"OLB fans", that may include some of the skeptics.

Did I ever share here that after I had read the OLB for the first time, I was skeptic about it for a long time, and that only later, after studying it some more, I decided that it's more unlikely that it was made up, than that it is real?

You say you were being 'over sensitive', heh. The members of my site are never too tired to remind me of my sensitivity (in Castaneda terms: feeling 'self-pity' or being 'self-important').

OLB fans do indeed include skeptics.. I am still here.

===

Yes, you did post about that. And I remember I replied that it went the other way round for me: I started as a believr, and ended up as a non-believer.

.

[Otharus]

Let's brainstorm about these Alhambra decorations.

To me the Alhambra numbers look like they have been made by someone who tried to make sense out the the idea that the numbers were based on a circle with spokes, but he couldn't really figure it out.

It's not likely that the OLB version is based on the Alhambra ones, and yet they seem to be somehow related.

It makes more sense that the Alhambra ones were vaguely based on a more original version where they were indeed fitted into a 6-spoked wheel.

[Abramelin]

Let's brainstorm about these Alhambra decorations.

To me the Alhambra numbers look like they have been made by someone who tried to make sense out the the idea that the numbers were based on a circle with spokes, but he couldn't really figure it out.

It's not likely that the OLB version is based on the Alhambra ones, and yet they seem to be somehow related.

It makes more sense that the Alhambra ones were vaguely based on a more original version where they were indeed fitted into a 6-spoked wheel.

To me the Alhambra numbers look like someone from Arabic descent went to India and wanted to create his own version, using (semi-)circles.

The result looks the same, the basis is different.

And we have Arab manuscripts far older than the OLB (= 19th century).

[Otharus]

To me the Alhambra numbers look like someone from Arabic descent went to India and wanted to create his own version, using (semi-)circles.

The result looks the same, the basis is different.

And we have Arab manuscripts far older than the OLB (= 19th century).

Why Arabic?

Arabic numbers look different.

I'll add them once more.

Now try to look unprejudiced.

Why in a circle with straight lines inside?

Edited February 4, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

And we have Arab manuscripts far older than the OLB (= 19th century).

But they don't have our so-called 'Arabic' (European style) numbers in them, do they?

Edited February 4, 2012 by Otharus

[Knul]

From the OLB:

Thit stêt inna Waraburch by thêre aldega mvda wryt.

Thju wâraburch nis nên fâmnaburch, men thêr in wrdon alla uthêmeda aend vrlandeska thinga wârath, thêr mitbrocht binne thrvch tha stjurar. Hju is thri pêla, thaet is en half ty sûdwarth fon Mêdêa-sblik lêgen.

THIS IS INSCRIBED ON THE WARABURGT BY THE ALDEGAMUDE.

The Waraburgt is not a maiden's city, but the place where all the foreign articles brought by sailors were stored. It lies three hours south from Medeasblik.

Nw wil ik selva skriwa êrost fon over min burch and than over hwat ik hav muge sjan.

To tha lersta kêmon wi to-t Alderga. By-t suderhâvahâved stêt thju Wâraburch, en stênhus, thêrin send allerlêja skulpa, hulka, wêpne aend klathar wârad, fon fêre landum, thrvch tha stjurar mith brocht. En fjardêl dâna is-t Alderga. En grâte flyt omborad mith lothum, husa aend gârdum, ella riklik sjarad. Invpper flyt lêi en grâte flâte rêd, mith fônon fon allerlêja farwa.

NOW I WILL WRITE MYSELF, FIRST ABOUT MY CITADEL, AND THEN ABOUT WHAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE.

At last we came to Alderga. At the head of the south harbour lies the Waraburgt, built of stone, in which all kinds of clothes, weapons, shells, and horns are kept, which were brought by the sea-people from distant lands. A quarter of an hour's distance from there is Alderga, a great river surrounded by houses, sheds, and gardens, all richly decorated. In the river lay a great fleet ready, with banners of all sorts of colours.

===

An anagram for WRALDA is ARWALD, tried it out, and this is what I found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arwald

I was just having fun with an online anagram program.

But on tht Wiki page I clicked on a link in the list of references:

http://en.wikipedia....e_Isle_of_Wight

However, the name for the "Men of Wight" was "Wihtwara" and their fort "Wihtwarasburgh".

http://en.wikipedia....e_Isle_of_Wight

In the ancient Saxon settlement of Canterbury, a district of Kent in South East England, we find the possible origin of the Ware surname. "Canterbury was once Cani-wara-burgh, or the borough of the Kent people. Wara, in the old name Cant-wara-burgh, reminds us of the prefix and affix War, ... 'The compounds of the Anglo-Saxon word ware = occupants, inhabitants, are too numerous to leave any doubt as to this and several other derivations. Cant-ware = Cant-icolae = people of Kent; Hwic-ware = Hwiccas = the people of parts of Worcestershire....'." Source: Chambers's journal, Vol. 26, By William Chambers, Robert Chambers, p. 329.

http://www.warefamilyhistory.com/

This might explain what the OLB "Waraburgt" really meant.

How about Oldfrisian war-a = Dutch bewaren, Eng. keep (beware) ? In the Waraburgt (near Hoorn) all sorts of luxurious goods were kept, which were not allowed to sell on the markets at Wieringen or Almenum (Harlingen).

[Knul]

I will not waste my time with that.

If you think it's worth discussing, why don't you give a summary for the other forum members?

If you mean Stadermann, he was only the neighbor of Over de Linden for one year, I think 1845.

That was also the only year they have been hanging out together, according to OdL's son.

This son must have been a liar too, or what?

Secondly, Stadermann was not a criminal, but a political refugee;

A mistake many people make nowadays.

Like Andreas Baader and Ulrike Meinhoff ?

[Knul]

I will not waste my time with that.

If you think it's worth discussing, why don't you give a summary for the other forum members?

If you mean Stadermann, he was only the neighbor of Over de Linden for one year, I think 1845.

That was also the only year they have been hanging out together, according to OdL's son.

This son must have been a liar too, or what?

Secondly, Stadermann was not a criminal, but a political refugee;

A mistake many people make nowadays.

You rather omit relevant sources, which do not fit to your authenticity theory.

[The Puzzler]

How about Oldfrisian war-a = Dutch bewaren, Eng. keep (beware) ? In the Waraburgt (near Hoorn) all sorts of luxurious goods were kept, which were not allowed to sell on the markets at Wieringen or Almenum (Harlingen).

Waraburgt sounds to me, from all that, to mean 'warehouse burgt'- town of warehouses/wares. wara going through to English ware (goods).

At the head of the south harbour lies the Waraburgt, built of stone, in which all kinds of clothes, weapons, shells, and horns are kept, which were brought by the sea-people from distant lands.

Edited February 5, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Van Gorp]

Waraburgt sounds to me, from all that, to mean 'warehouse burgt'- town of warehouses/wares. wara going through to English ware (goods).

At the head of the south harbour lies the Waraburgt, built of stone, in which all kinds of clothes, weapons, shells, and horns are kept, which were brought by the sea-people from distant lands.

Following Schrieck, Canterbury comes from Cantewarberi.

CANT: Angle, Hoek (de kant van Engeland, Kent, you reach it in DOVER, aan d'OVERKANT)

WAER: Defence (Werd u!, Niet zonder verweer)

[Abramelin]

No it's also about "bewaren" (hold/ protect), like here:

[105/06]

EN SLECHT ÀND WARANDA LINDA WITH THA SVNNE.STRÉLUM

"Wara" as in 'wares' is of course linked to Dutch "bewaren" or to keep or to save or to store.

ofri. (bi)waria

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/bewaren

Anyway, the OLB suggests that the name Waraburght is linked to English 'wares' or Dutch 'waren', but in the Anglo-Saxon version, which should be closely linked to Old Frisian, it means "inhabitants" or "occupants".

That is close to Dutch 'weren', to defend. or warrior/war and so on. That OLB even mentions "wera" as defender or warrior, soldier.

[Abramelin]

Following Schrieck, Canterbury comes from Cantewarberi.

CANT: Angle, Hoek (de kant van Engeland, Kent, you reach it in DOVER, aan d'OVERKANT)

WAER: Defence (Werd u!, Niet zonder verweer)

Canterbury was once Cani-wara-burgh

But I think it is based on a typo: 'cani' should have been 'canti'.

The Jutes named the city Cantwaraburh, meaning "Kent people's stronghold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury

.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Waraburgt sounds to me, from all that, to mean 'warehouse burgt'- town of warehouses/wares. wara going through to English ware (goods).

At the head of the south harbour lies the Waraburgt, built of stone, in which all kinds of clothes, weapons, shells, and horns are kept, which were brought by the sea-people from distant lands.

Yes, I said 'think warehouse' because that is what the OLB indeed suggests.

But the Anglo-Saxon waraburchts have nothing to do with 'wares' but with 'inhabitants' and 'occupants'; maybe even 'warriors'.

[Abramelin]

Why Arabic?

Arabic numbers look different.

I'll add them once more.

Now try to look unprejudiced.

Why in a circle with straight lines inside?

These are help-lines; the straight lines and the semi-circles only show how to draw the ciphers.

And they don't use the 6 spokes of the OLB Yule wheel because the Arabic ciphers evolved from Indian ciphers which didn't have only straight lines but also curves and semi-circles.

And then - you knew it was coming - a copy of the plate was hanging in the Dutch Royal Library in The Hague. So not only Ottema but others in his time could have seen it too and then became inspired to create their own version based on the Yule wheel.

The ones we use now were finally developed in Spain during Muslim rule and the time of the early Alhambra. People - Arabs, Jews, Christians mixed all kinds of sciences and arts, and also the way of writing.

.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

And they don't use the 6 spokes of the OLB Yule wheel because the Arabic ciphers evolved from Indian ciphers which didn't have only straight lines but also curves.

Only few of the Indian cyphers look slightly like ours. It's not very convincing.

a copy of the plate was hanging in the Dutch Royal Library in The Hague.

Is this fact or speculation?

[Otharus]

"Wara" as in 'wares' is of course linked to Dutch "bewaren" or to keep or to save or to store. ... That is close to Dutch 'weren', to defend. or warrior/war and so on. That OLB even mentions "wera" as defender or warrior, soldier.

I agree, waar, bewaren, weren, war, etc. will be related.

[Abramelin]

Only few of the Indian cyphers look slightly like ours. It's not very convincing.

Is this fact or speculation?

No, those ciphers in Spain evolved from Indian ciphers.

=

Fact or speculation... all I can do is post this:

Daar Kempius in 1589 overleden en zijn werk

in 1588 uitgegeven is, moet hij het geschrift van Forteman

eerst in het laatste van zijn leven in handen hebben

gehad. Dezelfde spreker gaf vervolgens nog een bijdrage

over het ontstaan van het cijferschrift van het Oera-Lindahok

uit het Joel. Het is opmerkelijk, dat nagenoeg de

zelfde type voorkomt op het Alhambra, blijkens een plaatwerk,

hetwelk zich op de Koninklijke Bibliotheek te

's Gravenhage bevindt. De heer Bibliothekaris, Dr. Campbell,

had eene afteekening daarvan aan den heer Ottema verstrekt

, welke door dezen met eene afteekening der cijfers

uit het Oera-Linda-bok en van de Arabische cijferteekens

ter bezigtiging werd gegeven.

http://images.tresoar.nl/wumkes/periodieken/vfg/vfg_1874-75_47.pdf

So it is Campbell, the librarian of the Royal Library in The Hague, who gave Ottema a drawing of the plate, a plate of which a copy was hanging (in the 19th century) in the Royal Library ("Koninklijke Bibliotheek").

.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

No, those ciphers in Spain evolved from Indian ciphers.

That may be the existing theory, but is it well argumented? I'm skeptical about it.

"... een plaatwerk, hetwelk zich ... bevindt."

... a plate of which a copy was hanging in the Royal Library.

I think you interpret the quote too liberally.

It doesn't say it was hanging on the wall, just that they had the plate (probably just in the book).

[Otharus]

About 'suppression' of the OLB.

If I would have children, I would not want their minds to be poisoned with lies and nonsense.

So if I would believe that the OLB was fake, I would not want a schoolteacher to teach my kids that it is true.

It would needlessly confuse them.

I would want him to shut up and leave.

So I perfectly understand why and respect that OLB-'advocates' have been suppressed.

. . . . . .

But now it's time to evaluate whether the arguments used to reject it were strong and sincere.

Jensma wrote that he did not include a list of personal and geographic names, because that would only encourage reading it as if it were true.

What was he affraid of?

That some readers might start believing in its authenticity?

Did he realise that his (hoax) arguments were not strong enough?