[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[The Puzzler]

The book title: "Survivors of Atlantis: their impact on the world"

Sounds like the auther would have read the OLB...

Yes, more than likely - it's mentioned as another cataclysm at that date, but I don't see how that is relevant anyway, there is an endless list of 2200BC disasters and he has included one mentioned in the OLB book in the whole listing.

Also Masse mentioned 4 dates closer to 2194BC than 2800BC like I was under the impression he had.

Edited February 26, 2012 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

http://espace.librar...ase=GEN01-ERA02

The co-occurrence of a sharp dust peak, low lake levels, forest reduction, and ice retreat at ca. 4-kyr BP throughout tropical Africa and West Asia have been widely explained as the effect of an abrupt climate change. The detailed study of soils and archaeological records provided evidence to re-interpret the 4 kyr BP dust event linked rather to the fallback of an impact-ejecta, but not climate change. Here we aim to further investigate the exceptional perturbation of the soil-landscapes widely initiated by the 4 kyr BP dust event. Results are based on soil data from the eastern Khabur basin (North-East Syria), the Vera Basin (Spain), and the lower Moche Valley (West Peru) compared with a new study at the reference site of Ebeon (West France). The quality of the 4 kyr BP dust signal and the related environmental records are investigated through a micromorphological study of pedo-sedimentary micro-fabrics combined with SEM-microprobe, mineralogical, and geochemical analyses.

In the four regions studied, the intact 4 kyr BP signal is identified as a discontinuous burnt soil surface with an exotic dust assemblage assigned to the distal fallout of an impact-ejecta. Its unusual two-fold micro-facies is interpreted as (1) flash heating due to pulverization of the hot ejecta cloud at the soil surface, and (2) high energy deflation caused by the impact-related air blast. Disruption of the soil surface is shown to have been rapidly followed by a major de-stabilisation of the soil cover. Local factors and regional settings have exerted a major control on the timing, duration, and magnitude of landscape disturbances. Studies showed how a high quality signal allows to discriminate the short-term severe landscape disturbances linked to the exceptional 4 kyr BP dust event from more gradual environmental changes triggered by climate shift at the same time.

I copied that info from another forum: http://scienceforums.com/topic/24201-bronze-age-impact-event-new-evidence/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To be fair, this was a retort:

The following was posted on the Cambridge Conference Network (24 September 1999).

The soil analysis of Courty [1998]. Courty reports the absence of the materials usually associated with a cosmic impact: this is evidence against such an impact. (M.A. Courty [private comm.] has agreed that a possible explanation for her data--which shows intense burn - is an eruption whose ejecta contained oil/gas; no other credible explanation has been suggested, as far as I know.)

...This obviously does not mean that there wasn't a climate-perturbing cosmic impact c. 4000 BP. I believe, though, that there is no evidence available specifically for such an event.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A late edit: If the OLB event occurred it could be the Corded Ware culture that is the Magyar led group, since they do have STONE axes and the date matches.

The beginning of the Late Neolithic Period about 2200 BC is characterized by the appearance of the Corded Ware culture, pottery with corded decoration and well-polished stone axes (s.c. boat-shape axes). Evidence of agriculture is provided by charred grain of wheat on the wall of a corded-ware vessel found in Iru settlement. Osteological analysis show an attempt was made to domesticate the wild boar.

Edited February 26, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

The book title: "Survivors of Atlantis: their impact on the world"

Sounds like the auther would have read the OLB...

He did: just enter "Linda".

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Edited February 26, 2012 by Abramelin

[Knul]

Read what Van Gorp posted, ok?

About the interpretation of that date?

I am sure he is right ( I did check it, heh), and I am sure you never even bothered to read his post about that date.

Sure, I believe Van Gorp when he says he can read Latin, I believe he knows how to interpret those dates.

Why should he lie about that?

.

Sure I have read his post. You probably do not know that I studied Classical languages (Latin and Greek) as well. So I know about the Roman dates. But alas, in this case it is not a Roman date, but a mediaeval date expressed in Latin. Even van Gorp must acknowledge this fact. Mediaeval dates should not be recalculated like Roman dates. December is December and not November, 18 is 18 and not 14. Roman years had 10 months, mediaeval years 12 months like we have.

[Knul]

I do know about those references, and I have posted about them many times.

What's been written about "Gosa" in the OLB, or what she's supposed to have said, is like quotes from the Bible.

____

You don't really get any word from what I post, eh?

I will bet there are Germans, Dutch, Scots, Brits, South Africans, Americans, and even Chinese who know what I am hinting at.

But you do not have the faintest clue.

Obviously you don't know anything about theology.

[Abramelin]

The date is December 18th, which is not the name date of Hidde, etc., but of Winibald, Gatien, Basiliaan: Vinebaud, Winbald, Wineboud; Gertjan, Gratiaan, Gratien; Bas, Basiel, Basilien

s. http://nl.wikipedia....agen_-_december

The date according to Van Gorp but also to the Groninger Archives is November 14th. I first thought someone had made a huge mistake, but Van Gorp showed how to calculate the true date.

And those name dates are no longer of any relevance, I know that now.

Even November 17th is 3 days off from that date of November 14th:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilda_of_Whitby

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Edited February 26, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Obviously you don't know anything about theology.

This is what I responded to:

There are many references to the Christian Bible in the OLB, but that does not make it a sacred text.

Whatever made you think I suggested it is a sacred text?

[Otharus]

He did: just enter "Linda".

This Frank Joseph is worse than Tony Steal (if that is even possible).

Four untruths in one sentence!!!

"The Oera Linda Bok (The Book of What Happened in the Old Time) is a compilation of ancient Frisian oral histories transcribed for the first time in 1256 c.e. by an anonymous author..."

[Abramelin]

Another 'famous' Okko :

Nederlandse watervloeden, of naukeurige beschrijvinge van alle watervloeden - Simon Abbes Gabbema,Tobias Gutberleth

http://books.google.nl/books?id=XldbAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=nl&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

OKKO aka AKKA PG 401:

The text says he's one of Willibrord's 'fellow brothers' ("medebroeders"), and of course 'friars' is meant here.

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Edited February 26, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

For the record:

The Swedish word for "queen" - "drottning" - is related to the Oldfrisian word "drochten".

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drottning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druhtinaz

[Abramelin]

For the record:

The Swedish word for "queen" - "drottning" - is related to the Oldfrisian word "drochten".

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drottning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druhtinaz

Are you sure?

According to the next quote you are confusing 2 words:

C.H.Ph. Meijer (1919), Woorden en uitdrukkingen

Gedrocht, mnl. gedrochte, gedrocht, vroeger bedrieglijke verschijning, nu afzichtelijk wezen, wanschapen dier of mensch. ’t Is een afleiding met ge- en -te van het ww. driegen, nu bedriegen. Niet met dit woord te verwarren is een nu verouderd gedrocht, een afleiding van een germ, drocht, volk, waarvan het mnl. drochtijn, heer.

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/gedrocht

Gedrocht, middle Dutch. gedrochte, gedrocht, formerly a deceptive appearance, now a hideous misshapen animal or human. It's a derivation with ge- and te- of the verb driegen, now bedriegen (= to deceive). Not to be confused with the now outdated gedrocht, a derivation of a Germanic drocht = people, later middle Dutch drochtijn = Lord.

dro-ch-t-en 11, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Herr; ne. lord; Hw.: s. dre-ch-t (1), dru-sta;

vgl. got. *draúhtins, an. drottinn, ae. dryhten (1), anfrk. druhtÆn, as. drohtÆn,

druhtÆn*, ahd. truhtÆn; Q.: R, H, E; I.: Lbd. lat. dominus; E.: germ. *druhtÆna-,

*druhtÆnaz, st. M. (a), Gefolgsherr, Führer, Herr; s. idg. *dhereugh-, Adj., V., fest,

halten, Pokorny 254; vgl. idg. *dher- (2), *dherý-, V., halten, festhalten, stützen,

Pokorny 252;

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-D.pdf

According to this Meijer (1919) the old Dutch words for monstrosity and for lord just happen to be similar without them being derived from the same word.

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Edited February 26, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Let's be more specific, as the theological aspect of the dossier is actually interesting.

Jensma wrote his thesis for the theological faculty, and 3 'suspects' (not IMO) had studied theology: Haverschmidt, Verwijs and Halberstsma.

OLB was known in Germany as 'Himmler's Bible'.

People have suggested it was written to challenge the authority of the Bible, or to parody a 19th C. religious conflict.

So, what in your opinion are the most 'dangerous' fragments of the OLB?

The 'most dangerous fragments'?

The fragments that describe the Fryans as infinitely superior to the Lydians and Finda plus the other fragments that describe the Lydians and Finda as some sort of degenerate low-life.

But dangerous is of course relative: it will only be like that when people start using the OLB as some sort of new 'holy book'.

[Otharus]

Are you sure?

Yes.

See:

http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=ONW&id=ID2288&lemmodern=drochten

and

http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=MNW&id=07855&lemmodern=drost

("drochsate")

In OLB, DROCHTNE or DROCHTEN means (false) gods or idols, but it is also used for Wralda (once, I think).

Our "gedrocht" (creature) and "bedrog" (fraud) may be derived from it as well, but it would be etymological 'cousins' (not 'ancestors') of drost (Swedish: "drots") and drottning (queen).

[Abramelin]

Yes.

See:

http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=ONW&id=ID2288&lemmodern=drochten

and

http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=MNW&id=07855&lemmodern=drost

("drochsate")

In OLB, DROCHTNE or DROCHTEN means (false) gods or idols, but it is also used for Wralda (once, I think).

Our "gedrocht" (creature) and "bedrog" (fraud) may be derived from it as well, but it would be etymological 'cousins' (not 'ancestors') of drost (Swedish: "drots") and drottning (queen).

Well, this Meijer said we should not confuse these words, and that is what you are doing now it seems.

The word that means lord/queen is not related to the word that means monstrosity/deceite.

[Knul]

With 'new-age Bible' I meant to say nothing more than a newly divinely inspired book based on some grand history of some other "chosen people", and this time the Fryans/Frisians.

These "Fryans" are nothing but an alternative to that other 'chosen people', the Jews.

There are - to me - too many hints in the OLB to ignore that idea. I already posted about "Gosa" almost quoting from the Bible.

The one (or those) who fabricated the OLB were out to look better than those.... fkg "GOLA" (="Jews". Just read Van Gorp's post, and you knew what sentiment is behind it all. And to Van Gorp I say: No man, I am not suggesting anything bad. Get that?). They just reversed accepted history.

The term new-age bible is badly chosen. The OLB is absolutely not a Bible.

[Otharus]

Well, this Meijer said we should not confuse these words, and that is what you are doing now it seems.

The word that means lord/queen is not related to the word that means monstrosity/deceite.

No, I (initially) said nothing about gedrocht/ bedrog (but it's possible that they're related; I don't take 'official' etymologists too seriously).

In Oldfrisian, 'Drochten', (also) meant lord or god, as you could have seen in the links I added.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

The 'most dangerous fragments'?

The fragments that describe the Fryans as infinitely superior to the Lydians and Finda plus the other fragments that describe the Lydians and Finda as some sort of degenerate low-life.

But dangerous is of course relative: it will only be like that when people start using the OLB as some sort of new 'holy book'.

Yes, those parts are obvious war-propaganda and can easily be understood in the time they were written.

But, other than the Judeochristian Bible (that I have not read yet, I must admit), OLB never claims to be (or include) the 'word of god', they're not talking about a land 'promised by god', or people 'chosen by god', they don't see Wralda as their god (like christianity has the "god of Israel"), or anything like that.

Like I said, anyone using OLB as if it is holy, has not understood it.

The Fryans had a god-concept (or better: world-ghost), but were otherwise totally anti-religious. Note that the word "GOD" meant 'perfect' (volkomen, volmaakt).

I often wonder if you have ever read the OLB PROPERLY.

Your fear of it may have troubled your view.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

The term new-age bible is badly chosen. The OLB is absolutely not a Bible.

I agree to that.

[Abramelin]

I agree to that.

Whatever name you want to give it, it is about the history a some sort of 'chosen people' under the guidance of a Supreme God - Wralda - and a mythical super-heroin - Frya - who comes next to the Supreme God.

And it ends with the 'chosen people' being dispersed, killed or assimilated into other peoples, their religion bastardized or repressed or totally forgotten.

And a prophecy that in so and so many thousands of years Wralda will set things straight again and everybody will live in harmony.

No... nothing at all like a bible....

[Abramelin]

Yes, those parts are obvious war-propaganda and can easily be understood in the time they were written.

But, other than the Judeochristian Bible (that I have not read yet, I must admit), OLB never claims to be (or include) the 'word of god', they're not talking about a land 'promised by god', or people 'chosen by god', they don't see Wralda as their god (like christianity has the "god of Israel"), or anything like that.

Like I said, anyone using OLB as if it is holy, has not understood it.

The Fryans had a god-concept (or better: world-ghost), but were otherwise totally anti-religious. Note that the word "GOD" meant 'perfect' (volkomen, volmaakt).

I often wonder if you have ever read the OLB PROPERLY.

Your fear of it may have troubled your view.

I can use the Bible as nothing but a story book or a history book and nothing will be the matter. We can argue about the truth of the historical accounts in the OLB - like we are doing for years now - or we go the "Tony Steele" way". I know that you know now what I am hinting at.

And man, I am not 'afraid' of the OLB, that really is ridiculous, but put a couple of nuts together, and they will abuse the book for their purposes, like they did with the Bible. It happened with other similar books, it could as well happen with the OLB.

The book itself doesn't scare me at all, even if it will be proven to be real and authentic. It's - as always - what kind of inspiration people get out of it, and then how they act upon that inspiration.

=

You say "war propaganda", but that you can read in the Bible also.

And Wralda may not be the god specifically for the Fryans only, but they behaved like obedient puppies to what Wralda was supposed to have meant and ordained and by that assumed they were superior to those that opposed them.

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Edited February 26, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

The term new-age bible is badly chosen. The OLB is absolutely not a Bible.

Then read the next again:

HERE IS THE WRITING WITH GOSA’S ADVICE

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bw

The only difference is that in the OLB the language got spoiled and bastardized by the people themselves, and in the Bible it was an act of God and his merry men.

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Edited February 26, 2012 by Abramelin

[Knul]

Then read the next again:

HERE IS THE WRITING WITH GOSA’S ADVICE

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bw

The only difference is that in the OLB the language got spoiled and bastardized by the people themselves, and in the Bible it was an act of God and his merry men.

.

The whole point is, that the OLB is merely a projection of activities known to us into a time preceding known history and known christianity, but it keeps the characteristics of known history and known christianity. If you have a closer look at Wralda, you find all the characteristics of the Christian God, even from a Calvinistic perspective.

[Knul]

Whatever name you want to give it, it is about the history a some sort of 'chosen people' under the guidance of a Supreme God - Wralda - and a mythical super-heroin - Frya - who comes next to the Supreme God.

And it ends with the 'chosen people' being dispersed, killed or assimilated into other peoples, their religion bastardized or repressed or totally forgotten.

And a prophecy that in so and so many thousands of years Wralda will set things straight again and everybody will live in harmony.

No... nothing at all like a bible....

The OLB is not just about religion, in state affairs e.g. the OLB describes the change from matriarchy (Adela) to patriarchy (Friso), in economy the change from exchange of goods (wixla) to payment for goods (vrsella), in law from punishment to protection of the weakest, in weaponry from bronze to iron weapons, etc., in building from villages with longhouses to towns with harbours and storage facilities, in writing from filt to pompebledar, in script from community scripts to communication script, etc.

[Abramelin]

The whole point is, that the OLB is merely a projection of activities known to us into a time preceding known history and known christianity, but it keeps the characteristics of known history and known christianity. If you have a closer look at Wralda, you find all the characteristics of the Christian God, even from a Calvinistic perspective.

There you go.

[Abramelin]

The OLB is not just about religion, in state affairs e.g. the OLB describes the change from matriarchy (Adela) to patriarchy (Friso), in economy the change from exchange of goods (wixla) to payment for goods (vrsella), in law from punishment to protection of the weakest, in weaponry from bronze to iron weapons, etc., in building from villages with longhouses to towns with harbours and storage facilities, in writing from filt to pompebledar, in script from community scripts to communication script, etc.

You can read much the same in the Bible. You can read about wars, you can read about other religions, you can read about cities being built and destroyed, and so on.