[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[The Puzzler]

Firstly, note the cautionary statement in association with this date. Secondly, as has been previously mentioned, tsunami's, particularly in the Pacific basin, are not at all uncommon. Note the following data.

http://historyofgeology.fieldofscience.com/2011/03/historic-tsunamis-in-japan.html

Thirdly, particularly given the frequency of tsunami's in this region, such occurrences do not support speculations in regards to an abnormal shift in the planets axial tilt.

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I agree a substantial axial tilt does not have much support.

WHat does it really mean by 'the sun rose higher' I wonder - one of the phrases used in the OLB that Alewyn thinks might support the axial tilt idea.

The Nordic Bronze Age was characterized by a warm climate that began with a climate change around 2700 BC (comparable to that of present-day central Germany and northern France). The warm climate permitted a relatively dense population and good farming, for example grapes were grown in Scandinavia at this time. However a small change in climate between 850 BC and 760 BC and a more radical one around 650 BC brought in a deteriorating, wetter and colder climate (sometimes believed to have given rise to the legend of the Fimbulwinter).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Bronze_Age

The climate was warmer from c. 2700BC and even though this next date of 850BC doesn't actually correspond to the OLB date of the colder climate setting in, it does show that some kind of weather change made it colder though - that grapes were once grown there and good farming was available, which may correspond to the notion of 'the sun rose higher'...

Edited March 15, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Vistula Veneti as well (how could I forget them??!) - that seems to give a direct link for the amber then.

Etymologically related words include Latin venus, -eris 'love, passion, grace'; Sanskrit vanas- 'lust, zest', vani- 'wish, desire'; Old Irish fine (< Proto-Celtic *venjā) 'kinship, kinfolk, alliance, tribe, family'; Old Norse vinr, Old Saxon, Old High German wini, Old Frisian, Old English wine 'Friend'.

Latin Venetis as blue-green seems to just be a colour word in reference to the area of Venice itself - Venetian Blue is a blue-green colour. Venetis is more than likely a word that corresponds to that.

venetian blue

venetian blue - Definition of venetian blue , meaning of venetian blue

n A strong blue to greenish blue

http://www.definition-of.net/veneti

Venice:The name is derived from the ancient Veneti people who inhabited the region by the 10th century B.C.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice

So, it's not like the Romans named the area Venice because it was blue-green sea - that word for green/blue imo comes later.

Yeah, I think it's like with the word "turquoise" which is a word everybody uses for a color, but actually is nothing but the French word for "Turkish".

So the Latin "Venetus" may be a similar word named after a tribe, but became the name of a color.

=

And then we have a connection between freya = "(to make) love" and "free" and the words etymologicaly related to the word that became "veniti": love, lust, friend. Ok, maybe all this is another shot in the dark, but that DNA research on the Veneti is still going on, so who knows?

[Abramelin]

I linked to it before but here is again that thread on another board where they discuss the Veneti:

"Taranis":

You may call me a sceptic, but I think there's really no connection between these. You just take superficially similar-sounding names out of context and assume a connection:

Veneti (Armorican tribe)

Veneti (Adriatic tribe/ethnic group)

Vandali (East Germanic tribe)

Venedi (Germanic exonym for Baltic? tribes)

Wends (German exonym for West Slavic tribes)

Vyatichi (Slavic tribe)

The last name is not even superficially similar. I'm not blaming either of your for this, particular because people suggested this before, but I think the similarity is really superficial.

Especially if you think about etymologies:

In regard for Armorican Veneti, you can draw a probable link with the Celtic root *wen- meaning "freeman", "compatriot", found for example in the British tribal name "Venicones" or the Old Irish term "Féni" ("Irishmen", "compatriots").

The term "Vandali" may be related with the English term "to wander". It should be pointed out that the difference between "wand-" and "wend-" is a big one, especially because both words occur in the Germanic context, and because the term "Venedi"/"Wends" is clearly applied as an exonym (on Baltic peoples in Antiquity, on West Slavs in the Medieval Ages).

I mean, it's really tempting to assume a connection when you see similar sounding names, there's no point in denying that, but, how can you prove there's a connection?

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?27302-Veneti-Venedi-Wends-(OFFTOPIC-Y-DNA-Haplogroups-R1b-U152-S28)

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"razor":

"Vyatichi" is actually the East Slavic denazalized rendition of something like VENT-ICHI. There are many examples of such. Off the top of my head I can remember Porphyrogenitos' "Sventostlabos" (the historical /later history/ "Svyatoslav" et sim. Acc. to the old Kyivan chronicle, these VYATICHI/VENTICHI were migrants "from the Lyakhs" (=Poland by most interpreters). Baltic Venedi? Who knows? Belorusan archaeologist Nosevych might be sympathetic to such a view, but it's a tricky thing indeed. There is a river Venta in Latvia. Is there also one in Poland?

==

"zanipolo":

you forgot Venetae which if you read the lithuanian history going backwards from the middle ages, reads that they comprised of the

livs = livonians

ests = estonians

kars = curonians

lats = latvians

sambians = prussians

samogitians = prussians

and others

all these are named as Venetae from only 600AD

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?27302-Veneti-Venedi-Wends-(OFFTOPIC-Y-DNA-Haplogroups-R1b-U152-S28)

[Otharus]

Goffe Th. Jensma wrote a thesis about the OLB and is generally accepted to be the 'official authority' on the subject.

He is now professor of Frisian language and literature at the University of Groningen.

http://www.rug.nl/staff/g.t.jensma

At a public discussion on the occasion of his promotion, none of the speakers agreed with his conclusion that François Haverschmidt must have been the genius behind OLB. (see below)

Source: Leeuwarder Courant, friday 10 december 2004

Translation of relevant fragment:

"Although the speakers without exception praised Jensma's work, he had not been able to convince any of them of his truth that François Haverschmidt is the main author of the OLB."

Original fragment in Dutch:

"Hoewel de sprekers zonder uitzondering vol lof waren over het werk van Jensma, had hij niemand kunnen overtuigen van zijn waarheid dat François Haverschmidt de belangrijkste auteur van het Oera Linda-boek is."

The panel members that unanimously disagreed with Jensma's conclusion, in the debate held at 6 december 2004 (Leeuwarden), were:

- dr. Eric Cossee, professor Dutch church history at Groningen University

- dr. Marita Mathijsen, professor Dutch linguistics and literature (specialised in 19th century) at Amsterdam University

- dr. Henk D. Meijering, emeritus professor Oldfrisian and Oldsaxon at the Free University (Amsterdam)

Source: "Jûn oer de dissertaasje fan Goffe Jensma" ('evening about Jensma's dissertation') in "Fryslân" 2004 #3, p.12.

[The Puzzler]

Yeah, I think it's like with the word "turquoise" which is a word everybody uses for a color, but actually is nothing but the French word for "Turkish".

So the Latin "Venetus" may be a similar word named after a tribe, but became the name of a color.

=

And then we have a connection between freya = "(to make) love" and "free" and the words etymologicaly related to the word that became "veniti": love, lust, friend. Ok, maybe all this is another shot in the dark, but that DNA research on the Veneti is still going on, so who knows?

I was reading about the 'riviera of Turkey' - they call it the Turquoise Coast.

I think alba as white might also hold an origin like that too - a colour that was once a tribe.

Yes, the Frya connection to free, and love, etc - that is certainly worth keeping up with. Priams name means this as well imo, priyama, I think I mentioned before, he was named this after being freed from ransom, his name imo HAS to be connected to this word.

The Veneti imo may be named because they were simply friends through trade, maybe even a wine trade.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ven

I could then see this becoming a root for vanity, vanir etc because of the meaning of venus-beautiful.

[Alewyn]

Bold #1 - It is not personally believed that you have qualified data to support this bold proclamation. In addition, as has been previously presented, Masse utilized a methodology not unlike your own in regards to his utilization of oral histories. While this methodology is subject to scrutiny and not one that would be of my own personal preference, Masse's data base and expertise are notably more extensive than your own.

Your continuous derogatory attacks on me, obviously bolstered by your anonymity, convinced me some time ago that your prejudices and a clear disrespect for the views of others prevent you from comprehending any alternative viewpoints. You denounce my expertise and data although you have not even read my book. Do not, however, waste your money now.

The following response is for the benefit of other readers.

Herewith the scenario around the Burckle impact:

1. Scientists from the Holocene Impact Working Group (HIWG) theorize that the Burckle Impact happened in the 3rd millennium BC.

2. They base their theory on the 200 meter high Fenambosy chevron dunes on the Island of Madagascar, some 1500 kilometers from the impact site.

3. The size of the dunes (after 4 to 5 thousand years), the distance from the impact site and the 3800 meter deep location of the impact crater in the Indian Ocean, tells us that the resultant tsunami must have been well over 200 meters high. In fact, these scientists tell us that the Burckle impact had the power of several million nuclear warheads.

4. The force of the impact would most likely have created numerous earthquakes which in turn would have created more tsunamis all around the globe.

5. The size of the initial impact tsunami and the resultant earthquake generated tsunamis would have advance several hundred kilometers, inter alia, up the Indus Valley.

6. It may well be that the impact disturbed the earth’s tectonic plates, which in turn could also have resulted in volcanic eruptions as far away as Greenland (Hekla).

7. Evidence of all of the above is found in numerous paleoclimatic, geological and archaeological records. Dr. Benny Peiser referred to some 500 excavation reports, research papers and scientific abstracts already in 1997. Today there would be many more.

8. Dr. Abbot and Dr Masse are both members of the HIWG but they give different dates for the Burckle Impact. Dr. Abott gives a date of 2500 BC and Dr. Masse’s date is 2800 BC. Clearly, both can be wrong but they cannot both be right.

9. It is generally accepted that the Harappan Urban Civilization in Pakistan was destroyed in ca 2200 BC. As with the Akkadian Empire’s demise around the same time, the increased salt content of the ground around these sites is indicative of sea water inundations which caused or contributed to their demise.

10. If either Dr Abott’s date of 2500 BC (300 years before the demise if these civilizations), or Dr. Masse’s date of 2800 BC (600 years before) is correct, there would not have been a Harappan Urban Civilization or an Akkadian empire to be destroyed in 2200 BC. They would have been destroyed earlier and there would not have been sufficient time to have recovered from an earlier catastrophe and to have developed to the level we find in the archaeological records. The Harrapan Urban Civilization, in any event, never recovered after the 2200 BC event.

11. In addition, if either Dr. Abbot or Dr. Masse is correct, then we must find another cause for the tsunamis that destroyed these civilizations (including China and Egypt). We have an abundance of evidence of global paleo-tsunamis in 2200 BC. What then cause these tsunamis, seismicity, resultant climate change and the 300 year aridification event, etc. etc.?

That, in a nutshell, and without quoting all the other evidence, is why I disagree with both Dr. Abbot’s and Dr. Masse’s dates.

[Otharus]

The following is copied from:

"Negen Eeuwen Friesland-Holland ~ geschiedenis van een haat-liefde verhouding"

('nine centuries Friesland-Holland ~ history of a hate-love affair')

by Breuker & Janse (editors), published 1997 by the Fryske Akademy.

This post (in parts) is for those who can read Dutch.

I intend to translate the most relevant fragments later.

"Het ontstaan van het Fries en het Hollands"

('the emergence of the Frisian and the Dutch language')

by Rolf H. Bremmer jr.

(part 1)

[Otharus]

"Het ontstaan van het Fries en het Hollands"

('the emergence of the Frisian and the Dutch language')

by Rolf H. Bremmer jr.

(part 1)

(part 2)

[Otharus]

(part 2)

(part 3)

(to be continued)

[Abramelin]

Evidence for three North Sea tsunamis at the Shetland Islands between 8000 and 1500 years ago

Stein Bondevika, , , Jan Mangerudb, Sue Dawsonc, Alastair Dawsonc, Øystein Lohneb

Abstract

Coastal fen- and lake deposits enclose sand layers that record at least three Holocene tsunamis at the Shetland Islands. The oldest is the well-known Storegga tsunami (ca 8100 cal yr BP), which at the Shetlands invaded coastal lakes and ran up peaty hillsides where it deposited sand layers up to 9.2 m above present high tide level. Because sea level at ca 8100 cal yr BP was at least 10–15 m below present day sea level, the runup exceeded 20 m. In two lakes, we also found deposits from a younger tsunami dated to ca 5500 cal yr BP. The sediment facies are similar to those of the Storegga tsunami—rip-up clasts, sand layers, re-deposited material and marine diatoms. Runup was probably more than 10 m. Yet another sand layer in peat outcrops dates to ca 1500 cal yr BP. This sand layer thins and fines inland and was found at two sites 40 km apart and traced to ca 5–6 m above present high tide. The oldest tsunami was generated by the Storegga slide on the Norwegian continental slope. We do not know what triggered the two younger events.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379105000739

http://www.mendeley.com/research/evidence-three-north-sea-tsunamis-shetland-islands-between-8000-1500-years-ago/

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2005QSRv...24.1757B

http://www.amazon.com/Evidence-tsunamis-Shetland-Islands-between/dp/B000RR7FAY

Nothing for 4200 BP.

[Abramelin]

How do they recognize if a tsunami has occurred in the past?

SCIENCE OF

TSUNAMI HAZARDS

The International Journal of The Tsunami Society / 2005

The well-studied Storegga submarine landslide along the Norwegian Sea

coast (e.g. Dawson et al., 1988; Dawson et al., 1991; Dawson and Smith, 2000) is

estimated to have occurred around 7300 14C years ago (8150 calendar yrs B.P.)

(Bondevik et al., 2003; 2005), although there is a range of dates related to this event

between ca. 7800 and 8400 calendar years B.P. (Smith et al., 2004). Deposits left by this

tsunami are found at dozens of locations, including 250 borehole sites on the northeastern

coast of the U.K., the Shetland Islands, Norway, and Iceland, and Smith et al. (2004)

present a summary of the records of the tsunami beds at all these sites. Again, the

tsunami deposited widespread sands up to 40 cm thick, in places containing pebbles,

cobbles, and boulders as large as 25 cm, and the unit contains marine organisms, eroded

peat, vegetation, and clasts ripped-up from coastal sediments; in places, the sand overlies

an erosional surface in coastal lowlands and lake basins. The extent of these deposits

indicates a wave runup of 10-12 m above sea level in Norway and 20 m on the Shetland

Islands (Bondevik et al., 2003, 2005). Henry and Murty (1993) used a two-dimensional

finite difference model to simulate the propagation of the tsunami from the Storegga

landslide, estimating that the amplitude of the tsunami at the source was 8-12 m, which

led to a wave height along the coast of Scotland of 2.4-5.5 m. Harbitz (1992) modelled

runup heights of 1-18 m for the northern coast of Scotland, noting that local topographic

effects, such as in a narrow embayment, will amplify “open-coast” numbers. Tidal

factors are also likely to affect the runup of a tsunami (Smith et al., 2004).

http://library.lanl.gov/tsunami/ts233.pdf

=

Propagation of the Storegga tsunami into ice-free lakes along the southern shores of the Barents Sea

Anders Romundset1,*, Stein Bondevik1,2Article first published online: 8 JUN 2011

Abstract

Deposits in coastal lakes in northernmost Norway reveal that the Storegga tsunami propagated well into the Barents Sea ca. 8100–8200 years ago. A tsunami deposit – found in cores from five coastal lakes located near the North Cape in Finnmark – rests on an erosional unconformity and consists of graded sand layers and re-deposited organic remains. Rip-up clasts of lake mud, peat and soil suggest strong erosion of the lake floor and neighbouring land. Inundation reached at least 500 m inland and minimum vertical run-up has been reconstructed to 3–4 m. In this part of the Arctic coastal lakes are usually covered by >1 m of solid lake ice in winter. The significant erosion and deposition of rip-up clasts indicate that the lakes were ice free and that the ground was probably not frozen. We suggest that the Storegga slide and ensuing tsunami happened sometime in the summer season, between April and October. Copyright © 2011 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jqs.1511/abstract?systemMessage=Wiley+Online+Library+will+be+disrupted+17+March+from+10-14+GMT+%2806-10+EDT%29+for+essential+maintenance

[Abramelin]

Do we have scaremongers here in the Netherlands? Yes, we have.

If you believe in the next 'prophecy' and you happen to live near the coasts of the North Sea, start packing...

(Btw, I found this blog while searching for that paper where they claimed to have found proof for 3 tsunamis between 8000 and 1500 BP)

Hold on to something (and imagine the voice of Samuel Jackson in Pulp Fiction, lol):

Intro:

Why Holland Tsunami?

Everybody who has written a message on this blog and those whose words are recorded, believe in the coming disaster upon The Netherlands. We believe that we, as watchmen, should warn the people about what is coming! This is also in accordance to scripture.

http://hollandtsunami.blogspot.com/p/why-holland-tsunami.html

This is where they quote from that paper I was looking for:

http://hollandtsunami.blogspot.com/2011/05/devastating-tsunami-in-north-sea-is.html

December 30, 2010

ENG 2010. Robert received a word on the Holland judgments. 2010

Aalten, 23rd of October 2010: Robert Seales received a word on the judgments of Netherlands [11.00-11.35 pm]. Watchmen Ministries watchmen_min@hotmail.com.[Watchmen Ministries is by no means connected to the several ministries and individuals who placed posts on this blog]

“They shall cry on the housetops, on the roofs of their buildings they shall scream. They shall be terrified and they shall be horrified. They shall panic, and scream with fear and run for their lives. They shall run to and fro, not knowing wither to go. A great tempest shall overcome them like a

mighty rushing wind, and you shall watch from afar and gaze upon the terrible waters as they come.

My judgments shall swallow up the great cities of the West. They shall fall; never to rise again. The cities in the plains shall be overtaken, overwhelmed in My wrath.

I am coming with a great sword to smite this nation as never before and My sword shall be bathed in blood. From the North unto the South, from the West unto the borders of the East, the slain of the Lord shall number in their millions.

And this nation, the Netherlands, shall be pitifully low. It shall be no more. It shall lay in ruins, drenched in My wrath and in My anger. The stench of its sin has reached up to My nostrils. Its iniquity is unpardonable. It is a stain and a blot of unrighteousness of such a magnitude, I will no longer forbear. It is enough! It is enough! The reign of My terror shall surely fall on this nation.

I will strike the landscape; I will strike the beasts and the cattle. I will smite the pigs and the fowls.They shall be smitten by the millions; they shall be no more. I will smite the trees and the meadows; the highways and the byways shall be swallowed up in My wrath.

My anger is sufficient to destroy them all. And their carcasses shall be a witness against this nation, both man and beast, young and old, and their death and destruction shall testify against this nation for its sin is great and its abominations overflow. Even the tallest structures shall fail them in that day of their calamity. My finger is poised to strike. Declare My warning, for time is running out for this nation. My decree for the utter destruction of the Netherlands is sure and steadfast and nothing shall prevent Me from executing My judgments. They that think they can turn My Hand are in utter delusion and deception.The sword of My wrath is poised over the Netherlands to strike it very soon and few there are who will understand and comprehend what I am about to do.

The nations shall tremble when they see and behold the catastrophe; their faces shall be pale through fear and concern. They shall lament and wail and cry and none shall help them.

The Lord is saying: flee from the West to the East; urgently flee. Gather your belongings, do not look back and flee for your lives, for the watery grave that will overwhelm this nation is at hand!

The matter is urgent. The situation is exceedingly serious, and the sword of My wrath is poised to strike. Flee to the higher ground. Flee to the mountains. Not one of you should stay behind. The signs are in evidence that My wrath will not wait much longer. It is a lie and a deception to think you can stay and survive. You must flee for your lives!

I hear their cries from the rooftops. Their screams, their panic stricken yells and screams. They are with fear. Their clothes are torn and tattered. They sit, stand on the rooftops, groaning and moaning and none, none shall come to help them.

I will overwhelm this country from one end to the other. I will make a full end of this place. Not one tree shall stand. Thus saith the Lord of Hosts. My decree has gone forth. The time is at hand.

See Me strike terror and horror in the hearts of this blasphemous country. They know no shame. They have heaped abominations upon abominations; they know no shame. They scorn Me. They ridicule My Holy Name. They blaspheme the worthy Name by Which I am called. They do not know Me, neither am I known of them.

A great evil has overcome this place. Thus My judgment is sure. I will have no mercy and pity anymore. This is My final word, My final warning. And this is but one nation among many that will experience My sharp sword of wrath and judgment. These disgusting cities will be no more. I am angry with this nation. They should know better. They do not even acknowledge My blessings. They are stiffnecked, hardhearted, wretched people. It is enough! No more will I forbear.

Make haste while there is yet time.

http://hollandtsunami.blogspot.com/2010/12/eng-robert-received-word-on-judgments.html

Alas, most of the rest of the blog is in Dutch.

EDIT:

Correction: if you look at the left sidebar on that blog, you will see the translations of the articles ("ENG").

.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Allow me some experimenting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbsB266pmbQ

More serious stuff coming up.

Lol, I must've skipped past your video.

Ramses Shaffy singing?

I also tried to read your version of the OLB script and the crossword puzzle... "For Aypiosiria jy yan od"?? Some letters are not easiliy recognizable.

[Otharus]

Ramses Shaffy singing?

Yep. It was one of the songs on my disk that had the right length and somehow fitted symbolically.

Some letters are not easiliy recognizable.

I made up a few new ones, and the 'words' are not all linear and 2-dimensional.

Indulging in creative expression sometimes helps me see things in new ways.

[Otharus]

(part 3)

(part 4)

[Otharus]

(part 4)

(part 5)

[Otharus]

(part 6)

[Otharus]

(part 7)

[Otharus]

(part 8)

[Otharus]

(part 9)

[Otharus]

part 10

[Otharus]

part 11

[Otharus]

part 12

[Otharus]

part 13 (final)

[Abramelin]

Yep. It was one of the songs on my disk that had the right length and somehow fitted symbolically.

I made up a few new ones, and the 'words' are not all linear and 2-dimensional.

Indulging in creative expression sometimes helps me see things in new ways.

Yeah, I already assumed you created a few new letters because I recognized your name.

Btw, not the spoil the fun, but you have been posting many scans from Rolf Bremmer's Dutch article..... and I think I recognize here and there parts I have read online... but in English. I know I have posted links to online English books by his hand. You might want to check these online books first, and before you start translating.

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Edited March 15, 2012 by Abramelin