[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Otharus]

Weird hey, what could that page be behind it?

That is page 125.

Weird indeed.

[Abramelin]

I would argue that zone of influence of Frisians in fact correlates with spread of clade U-106 of haplogroup R1b

and also, talking about how the Franks claimed a Trojan heritage...

in fact, in Serbia name for Franks seems to have been Fruzi (Frug for singular), which is very alike to word for Phrygia

The mountain's name derives from the old Serbian name for the Frankish people: Fruzi (sing. Frug; adj. Fruki). The literal translation of "Fruka Gora" would be "the Frankish Mountain". It received this name due to its function as a natural border during Frankish campaigns. During the time of the Roman Empire, its name was Alma Mons ("Fertile Mount").

Thus, Franks might indeed origin from Phrygians

By similarity of tribal name Frisians might as well origin from Phryigians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruska_gora

Wouldn't it be nice if a really dark-blue area showed in the Punjab?

Btw, this is the link to the post you quoted:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26144-R1b-in-Europe-origins-mostly-from-Phrygians-and-Galatians

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Edited April 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

That is page 125.

Weird indeed.

So someone from "Tresoar" took 2 out-of-sequence pages from the manuscript, and then made a photo of them lying on top of eachother??

And Knul's scan of the same page 143 doesn't show those extra letters.

+++++

EDIT:

Otharus, what does Jensma say about that page 143? Or can you post a scan of his transliteration of that page?

.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

I remember you (??) posted that line in a YouTube video about the OLB.

I asked then, you ask now, and no one seems to know. I know I googled every possible line in Dutch and English, but found nothing. Maybe it's in some report of that congress, but not online.

Yes that was one of my videos, I took it offline for it's not good enough.

Perhaps Alewyn can ask Snyman?

Or Snyman, if you read this, why don't you tell us?

~ ~ ~

It would be great to have some input from someone who knows something of the South- and West-Mediterranean languages and traditions.

"Adel" seems to be an Arab name too!

Adel Mohammed Abd Almagid Abdel Bary (Egypt) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adel_Abdel_Bary

Adil (Adel) Abdul-Mahdi (al Muntafiki) (Iraq) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adil_Abdul-Mahdi

Adel Emam (Egypt) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adel_Emam

Adel Taarabt (Marocco) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adel_Taarabt

[Abramelin]

Yes that was one of my videos, I took it offline for it's not good enough.

Perhaps Alewyn can ask Snyman?

Or Snyman, if you read this, why don't you tell us?

~ ~ ~

It would be great to have some input from someone who knows something of the South- and West-Mediterranean languages and traditions.

"Adel" seems to be an Arab name too!

Adel Mohammed Abd Almagid Abdel Bary (Egypt) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adel_Abdel_Bary

Adil (Adel) Abdul-Mahdi (al Muntafiki) (Iraq) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adil_Abdul-Mahdi

Adel Emam (Egypt) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adel_Emam

Adel Taarabt (Marocco) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adel_Taarabt

Adel (also transliterated as Adil, Arabic: عادل‎) is an Arabic male name that is derived from the Arabic word Adl, which means fairness and justice. It is commonly used in Muslim countries, and sometimes used by Coptic Christians throughout the Middle East. It is not to be confused with the similar female name Adele, which has a different pronunciation, although rarely it may appear without the "e" on the end.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adel_(name)

[The Puzzler]

Wouldn't it be nice if a really dark-blue area showed in the Punjab?

Btw, this is the link to the post you quoted:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26144-R1b-in-Europe-origins-mostly-from-Phrygians-and-Galatians

.

Oops, I have so many pages open, sorry.

Yes, it would be, maybe they are not U106 but another connected R1b line that developed.

[Abramelin]

Oops, I have so many pages open, sorry.

Yes, it would be, maybe they are not U106 but another connected R1b line that developed.

THe OLB claims the "Geertmen" lived there for 1200 years, up until Alexander the Great invaded their territory in the Punjab.

If the story is true, genetic evidence should be clear.

[Abramelin]

Let's make it a separate post:

Menno, can you explain the difference between your scan of page 143 http://www.rodinbook.nl/olb100-43.jpg-for-web-xlarge.jpg and the photo of page 143 http://images.tresoar.nl/bibl-collectie/boeken/oeralinda/groot/pagina.php?p=145&pm=212 ?

The "Tresoar" page showing photos of every page of the OLB is here:

http://www.oeralindaboek.nl/boek/index.html

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Edited April 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[Knul]

Let's make it a separate post:

Menno, can you explain the difference between your scan of page 143 http://www.rodinbook...-web-xlarge.jpg and the photo of page 143 http://images.tresoa...hp?p=145&pm=212 ?

The "Tresoar" page showing photos of every page of the OLB is here:

http://www.oeralinda...boek/index.html

.

I can, if you look at the Tresoar page, you see, that the upper left side of the page misses a corner, which does not show on the black and white scans (taken from Jensma). You see part of the underlying page in that corner. I have been puzzling, which two letters are missing before ...MIN, but I have not found it, nor did Ottema.Maybe, you have an idea ?

Edited April 9, 2012 by Knul

[Knul]

You ask, because where you put the dots "...MIN ЄÐLA HÆVON IN ÆFTER ÐIT BOK SKR" a piece of the paper, top-left, has been torn off.

First the 'official' text, with Sandbach's translation:

Thet skrift fon konerêd.

Min êthla haevon in aefter thit bok skrêven. Thit wil ik boppa ella dva, vmbe thaet er in min stât nên burch ovir is, hwêrin tha bêrtnesa vp skrêven wrde lik to fâra.

THE WRITING OF KONERÊD.

My forefathers have written this book in succession. I will do this, the more because there exists no longer in my state any citadel on which events are inscribed as used to be the case.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bs

It already starts wrong: "êthla" doesn't mean 'forefathers', it means nobles (or 'edelen' in Dutch):

ethe-l-e 10, afries., Adj.: nhd. edel, adlig, vollbürtig, frei, vortrefflich; ne. noble,

freeborn; ÜG.: lat. næbilis L 22; Vw.: s. un-; Hw.: vgl. ae. Ïþele, as. ethili*, ahd.

edili (2); Q.: L 22; E.: germ. *aþala-, *aþalaz, *aþalja-, *aþaljaz, Adj., von

vornehmem Geschlecht, von Adel, angestammt; germ. *aþilu-, *aþiluz, Adj., von

vornehmem Geschlecht, von Adel, angestammt; vgl. idg. *Àtos, *atta, Sb., Vater,

Mutter (F.) (1), Pokorny 71, EWAhd 1, 48; W.: nfries. edel, eel, adj., edel, adlig;

L.: Hh 22b, Rh 720a

ethe-l-e, afries., M., N.: Vw.: s. ethe-l (1)

ethe-l-hê-d 11, afries., st. F. (i): nhd. Adel (M.) (1), Schönheit; ne. nobility,

beauty; Hw.: vgl. mnd. edelhêit, mnl. edelheit, mhd. edelheit; Q.: AA 172; E.: s.

ethe-l-e, *hê-d; W.: nfries. adelheyt; L.: Hh 22a, Rh 720b, AA 172

The translation of the sentence would then start with "My nobles .... "

Doesn't sound right, so "MIN" is the end, the last 3 letters of another word, or so it seems, and not a word in itself.

.

I could read: AK MIN ETHLA - My parents too. Ethla is a general term for nobles, forefathers, parents.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Knul

[Knul]

We haven't much discussed style in this thread, but did you notice, that the chapter on the JUTTAR has a special style effect on N- (verbs contracted with NE) different from the rest of the OLB. It looks like those JUTTAR were stambling. Another nice example is the letter of RIKA, which could be compared with a letter of the wife of Halbertsma to Halbertsma.The letter looks like letters of illiterate persons who write an exaggerated official letter to the municipal authorities. Similarly I found a different style in chapters on the Seven Seelands, using MYK = made, which is the dialect of Walcheren as Ottema stated too. All this shows the literary quality of the OLB, which has not yet been investigated.According to me there are more different styles in the OLB, resulting in different wordings and different spellings. Please let me know, if you come across such pecularities.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Knul

[Abramelin]

I can, if you look at the Tresoar page, you see, that the upper left side of the page misses a corner, which does not show on the black and white scans (taken from Jensma). You see part of the underlying page in that corner. I have been puzzling, which two letters are missing before ...MIN, but I have not found it, nor did Ottema.Maybe, you have an idea ?

OK, so you got them from Jensma. Did he make his own scans of the manuscript?

Still, it is kind of weird that Tresoar made photos of the pages the way they did. Well, sloppy is the word here.

[Abramelin]

I could read: AK MIN ETHLA - My parents too. Ethla is a general term for nobles, forefathers, parents.

You are right: there isn't much of a choice to add letters in front of MIN because the max is 2 plus a space or 3 letters connected to MIN, without a space): AK plus a space would fit quite right, and wouldn't change the meaning of the sentence at all.

[Abramelin]

We haven't much discussed style in this thread, but did you notice, that the chapter on the JUTTAR has a special style effect on N- (verbs contracted with NE) different from the rest of the OLB. It looks like those JUTTAR were stambling. Another nice example is the letter of RIKA, which could be compared with a letter of the wife of Halbertsma to Halbertsma.The letter looks like letters of illiterate persons who write an exaggerated official letter to the municipal authorities. Similarly I found a different style in chapters on the Seven Seelands, using MYK = made, which is the dialect of Walcheren as Ottema stated too. All this shows the literary quality of the OLB, which has not yet been investigated.According to me there are more different styles in the OLB, resulting in different wordings and different spellings. Please let me know, if you come across such pecularities.

Which chapter about the Juttar do you mean?

This one:

That stêt vp alle burgum eskrêven.

THIS STANDS INSCRIBED UPON ALL CITADELS.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#au

Or this one:

Nv wil ik vr Friso skriva.

NOW I WILL WRITE ABOUT FRISO.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bt ?

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Edited April 10, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

You are right: there isn't much of a choice to add letters in front of MIN because the max is 2 plus a space or 3 letters connected to MIN, without a space): AK plus a space would fit quite right, and wouldn't change the meaning of the sentence at all.

Is this ak min in the OLB at all?

I saw BIMIN in the OLB text, I havent had a chance to see exactly what it means though yet.

[Otharus]

... South- and West-Mediterranean languages and traditions.

ofcourse I ment East, as in Middle-East.

[Otharus]

All this shows the literary quality of the OLB, which has not yet been investigated.

According to me there are more different styles in the OLB, resulting in different wordings and different spellings.

Please let me know, if you come across such pecularities.

I agree.

Very good point.

One of the things I noticed, is a difference in the average length of sentences (and parts of sentences), between some of the different texts.

[Otharus]

Please let me know, if you come across such pecularities.

Sometimes the tildes ( ~ ~ ~ ) are used to fill out space (example p.7,8), somtimes to create reading brakes (example p.83,84).

[Abramelin]

Is this ak min in the OLB at all?

I saw BIMIN in the OLB text, I havent had a chance to see exactly what it means though yet.

As I said, every page of the OLB starts at the upper lefthand corner, so there is room for 3 letters or 2 letters and a space. So it could not be BIMIN, I think.

"AK MIN" means nothing else but "Also my". It doesn't have to show up elsewhere in the OLB, but it seems to be a normal combination of words.

[Abramelin]

I agree.

Very good point.

One of the things I noticed, is a difference in the average length of sentences (and parts of sentences), between some of the different texts.

THe OLB is supposed to be a family chronicle, so yes: different people added text during different ages using their own words and in their own style.

[The Puzzler]

As I said, every page of the OLB starts at the upper lefthand corner, so there is room for 3 letters or 2 letters and a space. So it could not be BIMIN, I think.

"AK MIN" means nothing else but "Also my". It doesn't have to show up elsewhere in the OLB, but it seems to be a normal combination of words.

Compare it to the word underneath EVEN of SCRIVEN. It only needs to fit 2 letters imo.

I can pick some words too that are not in the OLB and stick them in...

I think it would be more conductive to think it was a word already used in the OLB and part of the language as we can see it - not just make up a word or think it might be a word that is not even used throughout it.

[The Puzzler]

BIMIN would probably be 'be/by my/mine' bimin

b 148 und häufiger, be, afries., Adv., Präp.: nhd. bei, nach, gemäß; ne. by,

By my forefathers...

That is very English - by mine forefathers blah blah

Edited April 10, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Compare it to the word underneath EVEN of SCRIVEN. It only needs to fit 2 letters imo.

I can pick some words too that are not in the OLB and stick them in...

I think it would be more conductive to think it was a word already used in the OLB and part of the language as we can see it - not just make up a word or think it might be a word that is not even used throughout it.

The word AK meaning "also" is a word that shows up in the OLB.

Now look at the screenshot of part of page 143:

...and you will see there is room for 3 letters or 2 letters + 1 space.

.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

BIMIN would probably be 'be/by my/mine' bimin

b 148 und häufiger, be, afries., Adv., Präp.: nhd. bei, nach, gemäß; ne. by,

By my forefathers...

That is very English - by mine forefathers blah blah

The 'blah blah' part is the important part, lol.

[...]min êthla haevon in aefter thit bok skrêven. Thit wil ik boppa ella dva, vmbe thaet er in min stât nên burch ovir is, hwêrin tha bêrtnesa vp skrêven wrde lik to fâra.

[.?.]my forefathers have written this book in succession. I will do this, the more because there exists no longer in my state any citadel on which events are inscribed as used to be the case.

Now try to squeeze "by" or "BI" into that sentence.

Or try "AK" with a space, meaning "also my".

[The Puzzler]

The word AK meaning "also" is a word that shows up in the OLB.

Now look at the screenshot of part of page 143:

...and you will see there is room for 3 letter or 2 letter + 1 space.

I think there is room for 2 letters or 3 also, yes. I think the word is most likely BIMIN and would make sense as well.