[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Abramelin]

I think there is room for 2 letters or 3 also, yes. I think the word is most likely BIMIN and would make sense as well.

No, BIMIN doesn't. See my former post.

[The Puzzler]

The 'blah blah' part is the important part, lol.

[...]min êthla haevon in aefter thit bok skrêven. Thit wil ik boppa ella dva, vmbe thaet er in min stât nên burch ovir is, hwêrin tha bêrtnesa vp skrêven wrde lik to fâra.

[.?.]my forefathers have written this book in succession. I will do this, the more because there exists no longer in my state any citadel on which events are inscribed as used to be the case.

Now try to squeeze "by" or "BI" into that sentence.

Or try "AK" with a space, meaning "also my".

Bi mina jüged was-t ôre

In my youth there was a portion of

It says BIMIN on the original, one word.

Dunno, have to think more tomorrow.

[Abramelin]

Bi mina jüged was-t ôre

In my youth there was a portion of

It says BIMIN on the original, one word.

Dunno, have to think more tomorrow.

Puzz, "BI MINA" does not fit into that sentence and space I posted. And it's not MINA, but MIN.

Knul's solution is better, "AK MIN".

What is your problem with that?

[Knul]

Which chapter about the Juttar do you mean?

This one:

That stêt vp alle burgum eskrêven.

THIS STANDS INSCRIBED UPON ALL CITADELS.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#au

Or this one:

Nv wil ik vr Friso skriva.

NOW I WILL WRITE ABOUT FRISO.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bt ?

.

I Noticed MS 149 N-AVATH in stead of NAVATH. This N- is repeated several times elsewhere in the context of JUTTAR, so it may refer to the pronunciation by the JUTTAR. I don't know anything about their language, but it might be related to Oldfrisian and Oldenglish as the JUTTAR obviously belong to the inner circle - atha (allies) - of the Frisians, even more than the DENNEMARKAR (Danes).

[Knul]

Puzz, "BI MINA" does not fit into that sentence and space I posted. And it's not MINA, but MIN.

Knul's solution is better, "AK MIN".

What is your problem with that?

Besides in 98% of the cases MIN is not preceded by a suffix like VNMIN in the OLB, nor in Koebler's dictionary, so I decided for two words, one two-letter-word + space, which leaves few possibilities like SA, THA or AK. AK fitted in the meaning of the sentence: MY PARENTS TOO HAVE WRITTEN..

Edited April 10, 2012 by Knul

[Abramelin]

Besides in 98% of the cases MIN is not preceded by a suffix like VNMIN in the OLB, nor in Koebler's dictionary, so I decided for two words, one two-letter-word + space, which leaves few possibilities like SA, THA or AK. AK fitted in the meaning of the sentence: MY PARENTS TOO HAVE WRITTEN..

And all of those possible additions to the original sentence wouldn't change to meaning of the sentence as we know of.

[Knul]

AKEN

We discussed Aken before. The place does not lie at the Rhine river, but may be counted to the STREK (region). In connection to this it would be good to discuss the meaning of BONAR (MS 156 r. 32), which has been translated as murderer by Ottema, but this meaning I have not found in Oldfrisian. Could it mean the inhabitants of Bonn, which lies in the same area ? However Bonar is also connected with the Yra (Iranians).

[Van Gorp]

Did you explain the meaning of the word Kasamyr ? Or Kri-sen ? I mean not the Gorpian way, but linguistically.

Well, now you ask something too complicated for me :-)

But to mention: I for me, can’t separate Becanus from linguistics and see no reason why to do so.

Traditional linguistic bickering gives hardly a real explanation for the meaning of the word(part)s.

Summary from WIKI

Legacy

Christoffel Plantijn had been a friend of Goropius's and the Antwerp-based printing house known as the Plantin Press, which first published Goropius's works in 1569, printed the linguist-physician’s posthumous collected work in 1580 as a massive volume of more than a thousand pages. Goropius's work was met with a mixture of ridicule and admiration. Goropius is considered to have given Dutch linguistics, and Gothic philology in general, a bad name. Though Goropius had admirers (among them Abraham Ortelius and Richard Hakluyt), his etymologies have been considered "linguistic chauvinism," and Leibniz coined the term "goropism" to mean "absurd etymology." Justus Lipsius and Hugo Grotius discounted Goropius's linguistic theories. "Never have I read greater nonsense," the scholar Joseph Scaliger wrote of Goropius's etymologies.

However, Goropius's work precedes that of William Jones, the “discoverer” of the Indo-European language family, and though replete with eccentric and ridiculous etymologies, nevertheless can be considered a foundation for the field of historical linguistics.

Good if I say: what do classics(als degene die ze volgen) explain about the meaning of all the words?

Mostly Mythes :-) Like Scaliger’s alledged background.

Like you have Hindo’s in Indi-(ën), you have Inden in Europe and Indians like the Indianen.

And all are considerd living ‘in’. This is not that absurd I think, just simple fact and deductable.

Voila, the Ingaeuones -> De In-Ga-Woon(en), living at the entrance of the in(terior)land.

‘Indich-en’. Indigineous. Indigène

For Rome there has been a very rich history before the Romans of Romulus.

You mentionned it even some time before I think.

Well, the name Rome is from Etrusc language (Scytisch or whatever we want to call the common wordgivings, just trace location names) and it’s secret meaning not to mention since long, though well known. But not from Romulus, and that’s where tradiotional etymologie rests their case in confusion. Please don’t ask me to go there :-)

Now we are talking about linguisitics: I find it fascinating that you have to gather in the word together.

Tegaeder doen we het, om de kennis te ver-garen.

If we come together om te vergaderen, the French call it “guerre”.

The Romans call them the Ger-mans.

Scythes with the more soft ‘gh’ call him (g)her-man.

That’s why Krisna and Christ (pronounced ‘Chris’ as from Ger-is, depending the tongue) are her-ders.

They seek to keep together, to look after for the group.

Phrygia in Scito-Celtic is Phurige, like in ‘de veurige of veur-leste’, be-fore.

Also in location: lying before, first.

You are in search for such explanations? Or am I missing a story that explains better :-)

[The Puzzler]

Puzz, "BI MINA" does not fit into that sentence and space I posted. And it's not MINA, but MIN.

Knul's solution is better, "AK MIN".

What is your problem with that?

The word in the original text is BIMIN not bi mina (like the transliteration) - it easy fits, is already a word in the OLB and seems to work wordwise. What's your problem with that I could ask you.

[The Puzzler]

And all of those possible additions to the original sentence wouldn't change to meaning of the sentence as we know of.

BIMIN is even in the same part as the missing ---MIN - about Konered. The writer of that part used this word. At page 100.44 - line 7 - BIMIN - not bi mina.

-------------------

By, according to, be, at, on

Any of those words can be what the BI means, including in, which is what has been translated into English.

b 148 und häufiger, be, afries., Adv., Präp.: nhd. bei, nach, gemäß; ne. by,

according to;

bi, Adv., Präp., bei; L.: Hh 8a, Rh 630a

bi-, afries., Präf.: nhd. be...; ne. be..., at (Pref.), on (Pref.);

Edited April 11, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Knul]

Well, now you ask something too complicated for me :-)

But to mention: I for me, can't separate Becanus from linguistics and see no reason why to do so.

Traditional linguistic bickering gives hardly a real explanation for the meaning of the word(part)s.

Summary from WIKI

Legacy

Christoffel Plantijn had been a friend of Goropius's and the Antwerp-based printing house known as the Plantin Press, which first published Goropius's works in 1569, printed the linguist-physician's posthumous collected work in 1580 as a massive volume of more than a thousand pages. Goropius's work was met with a mixture of ridicule and admiration. Goropius is considered to have given Dutch linguistics, and Gothic philology in general, a bad name. Though Goropius had admirers (among them Abraham Ortelius and Richard Hakluyt), his etymologies have been considered "linguistic chauvinism," and Leibniz coined the term "goropism" to mean "absurd etymology." Justus Lipsius and Hugo Grotius discounted Goropius's linguistic theories. "Never have I read greater nonsense," the scholar Joseph Scaliger wrote of Goropius's etymologies.

However, Goropius's work precedes that of William Jones, the "discoverer" of the Indo-European language family, and though replete with eccentric and ridiculous etymologies, nevertheless can be considered a foundation for the field of historical linguistics.

Good if I say: what do classics(als degene die ze volgen) explain about the meaning of all the words?

Mostly Mythes :-) Like Scaliger's alledged background.

Like you have Hindo's in Indi-(ën), you have Inden in Europe and Indians like the Indianen.

And all are considerd living 'in'. This is not that absurd I think, just simple fact and deductable.

Voila, the Ingaeuones -> De In-Ga-Woon(en), living at the entrance of the in(terior)land.

'Indich-en'. Indigineous. Indigène

For Rome there has been a very rich history before the Romans of Romulus.

You mentionned it even some time before I think.

Well, the name Rome is from Etrusc language (Scytisch or whatever we want to call the common wordgivings, just trace location names) and it's secret meaning not to mention since long, though well known. But not from Romulus, and that's where tradiotional etymologie rests their case in confusion. Please don't ask me to go there :-)

Now we are talking about linguisitics: I find it fascinating that you have to gather in the word together.

Tegaeder doen we het, om de kennis te ver-garen.

If we come together om te vergaderen, the French call it "guerre".

The Romans call them the Ger-mans.

Scythes with the more soft 'gh' call him (g)her-man.

That's why Krisna and Christ (pronounced 'Chris' as from Ger-is, depending the tongue) are her-ders.

They seek to keep together, to look after for the group.

Phrygia in Scito-Celtic is Phurige, like in 'de veurige of veur-leste', be-fore.

Also in location: lying before, first.

You are in search for such explanations? Or am I missing a story that explains better :-)

Goropism ? So Goropius was your ancestor ? I think, we should first find out in which language krishna or kri-sen has the meaning 'herder'. Sanskrit ? Hebrew ? Urdu ? If so, we can move on to other languages.

[Knul]

Otharus, you noticed that some parts of the OLB has shorter sentences or parts of sentences, so more compact than others. This would be interesting. In fact each book, letter, note, last will, etc. should have its own profile with differences in subject, style, wording, length of sentences, grammar, spelling etc. as they are supposed to have been written by different persons (males, females, high rank, lower rank) and in different times. It has been mentioned, that the end of the book differs in this respect from the first books, but the matter has not been studied yet. Let's find out.

[Otharus]

... it would be good to discuss the meaning of BONAR (MS 156 r. 32), which has been translated as murderer by Ottema, but this meaning I have not found in Oldfrisian.

Hettema dictionary (1832):

Bona, bana, buna = moordenaar, groote misdadiger (murderer, serious criminal)

Also see MS p.27 line 1.

(Bonar = plural)

Edited April 11, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

It has been mentioned, that the end of the book differs in this respect from the first books, but the matter has not been studied yet. Let's find out.

Yes, let's.

I'm still working on a new transcription, which is a good way to study the text once more.

[Abramelin]

The word in the original text is BIMIN not bi mina (like the transliteration) - it easy fits, is already a word in the OLB and seems to work wordwise. What's your problem with that I could ask you.

Add BIMIN to he text, translate the whole sentence, and see what you get. Then you will know what I mean.

[Otharus]

And all of those possible additions to the original sentence wouldn't change to meaning of the sentence as we know of.

I agree to this, and also that "AK" would be a better option than "BI", because it makes more sense. In fact "BI" makes no sense at all. I would just leave it open.

[The Puzzler]

[...]min êthla haevon in aefter thit bok skrêven.

[.?.]my forefathers have written this book in succession. I will do this, the more because there exists no longer in my state any citadel on which events are inscribed as used to be the case

From OLB text:

In accordance....my forefathers have in after/succession this book written.

Yeah, that makes no sense at all...

Edited April 11, 2012 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Thought this was kinda interesting...

The common language referred to by Tacitus was probably not Celtic, but was similar to that spoken by the Belgae, who may have been a Germanic people, as implied by Caesar. In other words, a Germanic-type language could already have been indigenous to England at the time of the Roman invasion. In support of this inference, there is some recent lexical (vocabulary) evidence analysed by Cambridge geneticist Peter Forster and continental colleagues. They found that the date of the split between old English and continental Germanic languages goes much further back than the dark ages, and that English may have been a separate, fourth branch of the Germanic language before the Roman invasion.

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2006/10/mythsofbritishancestry/

[Knul]

Hettema dictionary (1832):

Bona, bana, buna = moordenaar, groote misdadiger (murderer, serious criminal)

Also see MS p.27 line 1.

(Bonar = plural)

Thanks

[Abramelin]

Thought this was kinda interesting...

The common language referred to by Tacitus was probably not Celtic, but was similar to that spoken by the Belgae, who may have been a Germanic people, as implied by Caesar. In other words, a Germanic-type language could already have been indigenous to England at the time of the Roman invasion. In support of this inference, there is some recent lexical (vocabulary) evidence analysed by Cambridge geneticist Peter Forster and continental colleagues. They found that the date of the split between old English and continental Germanic languages goes much further back than the dark ages, and that English may have been a separate, fourth branch of the Germanic language before the Roman invasion.

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2006/10/mythsofbritishancestry/

< CHOP >

In page 367 Oppenheimer states in relation to Zoë H Rosser's pan-European genetic distance map:

"In Rosser's work, the closest population to the Basques is in Cornwall, followed closely by Wales, Ireland, Scotland, England, Spain, Belgium, Portugal and then northern France."

He reports work on linguistics by Forster and Toth which suggests that Indo-European languages began to fragment some 10,000 years ago (at the end of the Ice Age). Oppenheimer claims that Celtic split from Indo-European earlier than previously suspected, some 6000 years ago, while English split from Germanic before the Roman period, see Forster, Polzin and Rohl.[/i]

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=5100&p=3913600entry3913600

[Abramelin]

[...]min êthla haevon in aefter thit bok skrêven.

[.?.]my forefathers have written this book in succession. I will do this, the more because there exists no longer in my state any citadel on which events are inscribed as used to be the case

From OLB text:

In accordance....my forefathers have in after/succession this book written.

Yeah, that makes no sense at all...

I'm glad you agree...

[Ak ]min êthla haevon, in aefter, thit bok skrêven.

[Ook] m'n alders hebben, achter elkaar, dit boek geschreven

[Also] my forefathers/elders have, in succession, written this book.

(Btw: OLB: aefter = DU: achter / Old DU: after.

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/achter )

.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Yes, you posted that before, but the OLB suggests that 'rare' is a translation of 'Kasamyr'.

In whatever way we chop the word up, nothing points to a part meaning 'rare'.

The only thing about "KASAMYR" having something to do with "rare" is the famous Cashmere (= original spelling of Kashmir) wool:

Rare Himalayan goat cloned to increase cashmere wool production

Mar 15 2012

SRINAGAR, INDIA—Scientists said Thursday they have cloned a rare Himalayan goat in Indian-controlled Kashmir, hoping to help increase the number of animals famed for their silky soft undercoats used to make pashmina wool, or cashmere.

The March 9 birth of female kid “Noori,” which means “light” in Arabic, could spark breeding programs across the region and mass production of the high-priced wool, said lead project scientist Dr. Riaz Ahmad Shah, a veterinarian in the animal biotechnology centre of Sher-i-Kashmir University.

Cashmere wool, particularly made into shawls, is a major source of income for Kashmir, generating about $80 million a year for the Indian-controlled portion of the disputed mountain state. A shawl can cost $200 in Kashmir and much more when sold abroad — a boon given the average salary of $800 a year for Kashmir’s 10.2 million people.

===

It's kind of interesting to note that the old spelling of "Kashmir" was "Cashmere":

cashmere

1680s, "shawl made of cashmere wool," from the old spelling of Kashmir, Himalayan kingdom where wool was obtained from long-haired goats. As a name for this kind of woolen fabric, favored for shawls, etc., it is attested from 1822.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=Cashmere&searchmode=none

And no doubt the etymology of that word would be "cash more" in Van Gorpian, lol. Or better (using Dutch): Kassa Meer).

.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

ka shimeer = water desicate

drying up of the water

it probably was an extraordinary or rare thing to happen in the way it did.

Land desicated from water, in fact, is the basis to all Primordial Mound myths. The mound of land appears from the water as it dries up.

--------------

According to folk etymology, the name "Kashmir" means "desiccated land" (from the Sanskrit: Ka = water and shimeera = desiccate). In the Rajatarangini, a history of Kashmir written by Kalhana in the mid-12th century, it is stated that the valley of Kashmir was formerly a lake. According to Hindu mythology, the lake was drained by the great rishi or sage, Kashyapa, son of Marichi, son of Brahma, by cutting the gap in the hills at Baramulla (Varaha-mula). When Kashmir had been drained, Kashyapa asked Brahmans to settle there. This is still the local tradition, and in the existing physical condition of the country, we may see some ground for the story which has taken this form. The name of Kashyapa is by history and tradition connected with the draining of the lake, and the chief town or collection of dwellings in the valley was called Kashyapa-pura, which has been identified with Kaspapyros of Hecataeus (apud Stephanus of Byzantium) and Kaspatyros of Herodotus (3.102, 4.44).[1] Kashmir is also believed to be the country meant by Ptolemy's Kaspeiria.[2]

Cashmere is an archaic spelling of Kashmir, and in some countries it is still spelled this way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Kashmir

Edited April 12, 2012 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

There is actually a comparison to that last part imo - to the plains of Thessaly being drained by Poseidon cutting a gap in the mountain range so the water could drain out.

[Otharus]

Hettema dictionary (1832):

Bona, bana, buna = moordenaar, groote misdadiger (murderer, serious criminal)

For the record, here's a spelling variety:

[063/11]

THRVCH SIN VNTOCHT ÀND HÁCH.FÁRENHÉD.

IS ER VAKEN THENE BÁNA SINRA NÉISTA SIBBA WRDEN