[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Abramelin]

He was a member of the Order I founded - he lives in Singapore, but is British. I can't give you his name though, for reasons of confidentiality.

Read my edit, please.

I assure you: I will not disclose his identity here.

[Tony S.]

Read my edit, please.

I assure you: I will not disclose his identity here.

Sorry, I still can't. The name he chooses to call himself in public is on his website. And that's all I'll say on the matter.

[Abramelin]

You created an order, based on a book.

Why?

__

And what is your opinion about Mark Puryear's pdf about the OLB??

Investigations into the Oera Linda Book (643kb)

By Mark Puryear

"When The Oera Linda Book first came to light, around the middle of the nineteenth century, it was attacked forthwith from all quarters and denounced as a fraud" says Frank H. Pierce, translator of the text. He then goes on to give some compelling evidence as to why we should give this "history" of Frisia its due credit. I personally pay little heed to the opinions of the mainstream academia since they have, time and time again, demonstrated a child-like desire to cling to the doctrines they were taught, only trying to 'prove' them rather than maintaining the scientific objectivity required for any realm of research..."

download

http://www.norroena.org/articles.html

.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Abramelin

[Tony S.]

You created an order, based on a book.

Why?

__

And what is your opinion about Mark Puryear's pdf about the OLB??

.

The order was not just about the book, but the whole culture it represented.

I'm not familiar with Mark Puryear.

[Abramelin]

The order was not just about the book, but the whole culture it represented.

I'm not familiar with Mark Puryear.

OK, so you wanted to create somekind of new - or rivived - religion.

But you must remember what I have said - and quoted - about 'religion' in this thread, right?

==

About Puryea: read his pdf. I am quite convinced you - of all people here - will like it.

[Abramelin]

This thread is about nothing else but trying to convince simple people to convince that what they always believed in was true, or WRONG.

They - the believers in the OLB - want to create a new religion.

Alewyn is p***ed off by my remarks about Jesus/Christianity (and I didnt even intend to), and Tony is a Pagan.

Is this topic about "Religion" or NOT????

I think it IS.

And I think Jensma was right after all.

This whole thread, this whole thing about the OLB is about RELIGION, and nothing else.

This new religion is about promoting some sort of 'ancient' European dominance.

And I won't buy it, ever.

This thing is about some tribe - the Frisians - being the the source of ancient European hsitory.

.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Abramelin

[Tony S.]

This thread is about nothing else but trying to convince simple people to convince that what they always believed in was true, or WRONG.

They - the believers in the OLB - want to create a new religion.

Alewyn is p***ed off by my remarks about Jesus/Christianity (and I didnt even intend to), and Tony is a Pagan.

Is this topic about "Religion" or NOT????

I think it IS.

And I think Jensma was right after all.

This whole thread, this whole thing about the OLB is about RELIGION, and nothing else.

This new religion is about promoting some sort of 'ancient' European dominance.

And I won't buy it, ever.

This thing is about some tribe - the Frisians - being the the source of ancient European hsitory.

.

It's a question of which paradigm you choose to take part in. Paganism is all about this. It's not a revealed religion, with dogma and rules.

[Otharus]

I am sure we all agree that if the tests indicated a 19th century date, there should have been no problem.

I agree.

I would suggest that some pressure is the only approach that will produce a result.

As far as I understood, the first article is about to be published in a professional magazine for archivists.

I will write my new request this weekend.

[Otharus]

My own feeling is that this is not only probably the case, but that its 19th century copiers added bits, dropped other bits, or changed the text.

No, that's just you, Tony.

[Otharus]

I have always said that. I said it ages ago in this thread, and in my 1998 book on the subject.

A book that no-one ever found interesting enough to quote from.

[Otharus]

You may have said it 'ages ago' in this thread, but *I* said it long before you even participated in this thread.

Was that before me on October 20 (my 35th post)?

Even if paper and ink turn out to be new I will still consider it more credible to be a copy of (an) older source(s), than the result of a 19th century conspiracy.

[Otharus]

They - the believers in the OLB - want to create a new religion.

I suppose "they" would include me.

What makes you think so?

[Abramelin]

I suppose "they" would include me.

What makes you think so?

No, honestly, I did NOT include you.

To me you appear as someone who is strict about truth, but not someone out to create some new 'religion'.

Same thing with Puzzler: she is convinced the OLB is what it is supposed to be. She loves history, but she is not fanatic about it.

But I have second thoughts about Tony and Alewyn, hmm....

Well, that is my impression. And maybe I am wrong again.

Like I have been wrong many times.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Was that before me on October 20 (my 35th post)?

Loooong before.

Look, I am skeptical, but I have brains too, lol.

I am even skeptical about my own skepsis.

Otharus, Alewyn, Tony, Puzzler: I have NO agenda. I am not being skeptical just because that is my attitude or something.

I just think - no, I am convinced - that the OLB is a fabulation.

And I do not like to be called names, or be labeled as some kind of idiot, a guy with an agenda, brain-dead, an amnesiac, and so on. When I was in the KB today, I told the librarian I was in contact with a South African writer who wrote a book based on the OLB. I said he - Alewyn - had written a controversial book, and that that was the reason I wanted to know more about the research done on the OLB. I did not say he was just an idiot, and 'oh please, give me some solid proof to finally shut him up'. No way, I have said several times in this thread that I respect Alewyn for having the balls to write a 400 page book based on his convictions.

Maybe I have blurted out to you all, once, maybe I even called one of you an 'idiot' (drunk as I was). It's nothing but bickering in the heat of a discussion. That is how one behaves, having grown up with 3 elder brothers, LOL. To me this is one of the most SANE threads of UM.

I love history, I love to investigate.

.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

This thread is about nothing else but trying to convince simple people to convince that what they always believed in was true, or WRONG.

They - the believers in the OLB - want to create a new religion.

Alewyn is p***ed off by my remarks about Jesus/Christianity (and I didnt even intend to), and Tony is a Pagan.

Is this topic about "Religion" or NOT????

I think it IS.

And I think Jensma was right after all.

This whole thread, this whole thing about the OLB is about RELIGION, and nothing else.

This new religion is about promoting some sort of 'ancient' European dominance.

And I won't buy it, ever.

This thing is about some tribe - the Frisians - being the the source of ancient European hsitory.

.

I think it is about religion but to me it seems to reveal the truth about Christianity and how it was distorted by the priests into something it wasn't.

This imo is what it's about, it's saying hey, the priests have manipulated you all for thousands of years because they are so clever and dominant.

That's why it can't be looked at by monks because they would get all nasty for saying that, as I believe that the Jessos mentioned/Buda/ is Jesus they speak of.

I don't even trust the Christian Reckoning they mention and think it could be distorted time which is why this won't fit properly into time.

I personally don't even want to think about undermining the base of Christianity but feel that this is actually what the book is doing and why it has been so vehemently vilified as a hoax etc.

I was just reading up some more about Galileo and you do know that the Inquisition would not accept his agreed Copernicus notions of a central Sun.

Here's how Wiki puts it...

In February 1616, although he had been cleared of any offence, the Catholic Church nevertheless condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture",[10] and Galileo was warned to abandon his support for it—which he promised to do. When he later defended his views in his most famous work, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, published in 1632, he was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest.

FALSE AND CONTRARY TO SCRIPTURE. REST OF HIS LIFE UNDER HOUSE ARREST.

Do you see how powerful this is, they were?

This, to me, is the whole reasoning behind the OLB and the threat of it also.

I don't think anyone was creating a new religion but exposing the old one.

[The Puzzler]

This thing is about some tribe - the Frisians - being the the source of ancient European hsitory.

I believe it's about this too.

Both.

The Frisians were the source of ancient European history and they also know the truth about how the priests, Druids, Golar, Magyar etc invented a religion that they spread all over the place, whilst in the background a once strong cultural people were laid to waste by the power of the lies and manipulations of others.

It seems simple enough to me.

It seems logical enough too.

[The Puzzler]

In saying that, I do think Christianity in general is aimed at being good and following Christs word and most dedicated Christians I know are very nice people and the kids are always helpful etc, good morals, but as usual, you get bad seeds in anything that have abused priviledges of power and this is no exception.

Religion is such a huge force and has been throughout history it's hard in my mind to even figure how big it has been, priests really have controlled the world for thousands of years.

Even Kings were High Priest Kings, everyone in any power were some kind of priest instituting some kind of religious following, possibly to control the people better.

One reason I don't think it's a hoax, why would people of Frisian descent undermine their whole history and proud morals, with NO TRUTH, just lies, doesn't seem very Frisian to me at ALL.

Priestly religion popped up somehow, we know it took over the world and became an elite force to be reckoned with, the people in question were persecuted - why indeed would it not have happened like has been recorded in the OLB...?

Just thoughts this morning rather than debate.

[Alewyn]

Funny the two of you - Alewyn and Tony - now say that proof the OLB manuscript (paper and ink) is from the 19th century would not prove the OLB was also created in the 19th century.

Just another proof how you distort things in order to dicredit others.

You show ONE example where I said this.

Stop talking nonsense.

[Alewyn]

No, honestly, I did NOT include you.

To me you appear as someone who is strict about truth, but not someone out to create some new 'religion'.

Same thing with Puzzler: she is convinced the OLB is what it is supposed to be. She loves history, but she is not fanatic about it.

But I have second thoughts about Tony and Alewyn, hmm....

Well, that is my impression. And maybe I am wrong again.

Like I have been wrong many times.

Exactly. Again. When you fail to convince, you discredit. After all, you have never received so much attention in all your life.

As I have said before: If I approached the OLB from my Christian convictions, I would have had to say it was a fraud. However, because I see it as purely of historic interest, I wrote a book about it. You just do not seem to be able to get this into your skull. But then, the information and analyses in my book also went way over your head.

BTW. This response is more for the benefit of other readers, so do not flatter yourself.

[The Puzzler]

Another thing, Christianity was just another wave of priest manipulation and I don't exactly point the finger at just them.

All that went on with Druids and other pagan religions obviously before the advent of Christianity has been controlled by priests too.

I think Alewyn is right in that these Golar became Druids of the Celts and the book says how this happened by Kalta allowing them to control the populace for her own benefit. The Galli are interesting too and I think they should tie in also. Considering the Phrygians came from Europe to begin with, it would seem logical their priests were roosters, Galli.

[The Puzzler]

Exactly. Again. When you fail to convince, you discredit. After all, you have never received so much attention in all your life.

As I have said before: If I approached the OLB from my Christian convictions, I would have had to say it was a fraud. However, because I see it as purely of historic interest, I wrote a book about it. You just do not seem to be able to get this into your skull. But then, the information and analyses in my book also went way over your head.

BTW. This response is more for the benefit of other readers, so do not flatter yourself.

I benefitted from it because it really does show this. You are Christian and if you were following that you would be like others and declare it a fraud, but your belief in the truth in the OLB book drove you to push that aside, I admire that.

Edited March 12, 2011 by The Puzzler

[Otharus]

No, honestly, I did NOT include you.

To me you appear as someone who is strict about truth, but not someone out to create some new 'religion'.

Thank you, Abe.

The more I get to know you, the easier I find it to ignore and relativise your regular outbursts of frustration.

But they do make me hesitate to invite other experts to join the forum.

[Otharus]

One reason I don't think it's a hoax, why would people of Frisian descent undermine their whole history and proud morals, with NO TRUTH, just lies, doesn't seem very Frisian to me at ALL.

Well said.

[Flashbangwollap]

[in saying that, I do think Christianity in general is aimed at being good and following Christs word and most dedicated Christians I know are very nice people and the kids are always helpful etc, good morals, but as usual, you get bad seeds in anything that have abused priviledges of power and this is no exception./]

Yes on the level of one to one Christians are indeed just well behaved people who follow that which is written in the Bible.

[Religion is such a huge force and has been throughout history it's hard in my mind to even figure how big it has been, priests really have controlled the world for thousands of years./]

Your words Puzz and the more I look at the imprint of the Christian movement the more it boggles my mind as well.

[Even Kings were High Priest Kings, everyone in any power were some kind of priest instituting some kind of religious following, possibly to control the people better./]

Yes working together to hold POWER and WEALTH.

[One reason I don't think it's a hoax, why would people of Frisian descent undermine their whole history and proud morals, with NO TRUTH, just lies, doesn't seem very Frisian to me at ALL./]

I'm not at all convinced of this in the OLB as I said earlier...There is hardly any meat in the book. The Human elements of pride and general exchange of detail you find in other narratives just isn't there.

[Priestly religion popped up somehow, we know it took over the world and became an elite force to be reckoned with, the people in question were persecuted - why indeed would it not have happened like has been recorded in the OLB...?/]

The reason they were persecuted is well known in each instance. The power of the state - King/Emperor within that state could see the people and Priests mobilizing their minds and actions against the hierarchy.

Once an agreement was reached between the Priests and the Kings and Lords then off they went together to fight who or whatever threatened that position.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Flashbangwollap

[The Puzzler]

Thanks for all your answers there Flash.

I gotta go with Otharus on 'Veritas Liberat', that is, Truth Frees and if it wasn't the Frisians we are talking about I'd say it could seem hoaxable, but this group of people have retained this moral code as part of who they are for ever and to accuse them of being liars and tale-makers seems to just go against everything they stand for...

Not only that, it makes sense in my book IF I take away the Christian Reckoning. Who developed that time? A monk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_Domini