[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Abramelin]

So, you like to agree with 'medieval legends' when it suits hey?

The "H-" prefix in many languages (Hungarians, Hongrois, Hungarus, etc.) is a later addition. It was taken over from the name of the Huns, a semi-nomadic tribe that briefly lived in the area of present-day Hungary and, according to medieval legends, were the people from which the Magyars originated. The identification of the Hungarians with the Huns has often occurred in historiography and literature. Hun names like Attila and Réka have been popular among Hungarians to this day. The identification began to be disputed in the late 19th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_people

Atli is an Old Norse masculine personal name, and may refer to:

Atli, one of the names of the Norse god Thor

Atli in the Völsunga saga, believed to be a romanticized version of Attila the Hun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atli

Yeah, I like to use medieval legends when it suits, like all the rest here uses legends when it suits THEM, lol.

And it was in the Snorri Edda that Attila was called Atli.

Don't blame me, blame Snorri.

The strange thing is that Attila was venerated in Nordic countries, so it's no surprise they thought of him as some kind of Nordic 'god'.

[Abramelin]

Let's say the word SVN was written in what we think is Latin - SVN = SUN

Isn't it weird that our word Sun is co-incidently the same word as the Scandinavian word for SON, or young man, warrior, IF we change the V to a U.

In Latin it looks like this SVN - and we transfer it to SUN - but is it really? Or is it that the word is actually SVN (Sven)...

What's equally interesting and confusing is that Norse mythology has Sunna and Mani - but the Sun is a female, also sometimes known as Sol, who we often call Helios, but Helios is always depicted as a man.

Man-i, the Moon. The moon was male also.

So, somewhere along the way Sunna and Mani were transferred into a male Sun and female Moon - the word Sun therefore must come from Sunna.

Sun is Sun, Sven svn is Son. (young man)

Svn does not transfer to the word Sun imo in Nordic, it can only be son.

Okke min svn - what are you reading? Okke my son? How can that be? Because you think the word is some form of son in Latin - it's not, it only works like that because SVN means son in Nordic.

We cannot read the OLB as Okke my SON in any other language but Nordic.

imo, but feel free to show me otherwise.

So... Okke was NOT Adela's son??

The transliteration from OLB script into Latin script gives SVN.

You think it's like "Okke, my sunny boy" or something??

And what are you going on about the OLB being from Norway/Sweden? Check the Old Frisian dictionary I have posted a zillion times now.

Yep, the languages Frisian and Norse - are related, but that's old news.

But that doesn't mean the OLB was written in Norse/Swedish, or was written in Norway/Sweden.

[Alewyn]

You talk now about a change in climate caused by a change in the earth's ORBIT.

A change in the earth's orbit is NOT the same as a change in the tilt of the earth's axis.

And yes, the tilt of the earth's axis changes over time AND will change the climate, but if it was caused by an impact, you and I would not be talking here.

The dinosaurs died out because of an impact, but as far as I know, not even the Chixculub impact in Yucatan changed the tilt of the earth's axis.

.

.

I repeat:

http://www.scienceda...90712080500.htm

Sahara's Abrupt Desertification Started By Changes In Earth's Orbit, Accelerated By Atmospheric And Vegetation Feedbacks

ScienceDaily (July 12, 1999) WASHINGTON

The change from the mid-Holocene climate to that of today was initiated by changes in the Earth's orbit and the tilt of Earth's axis.

You wanted scientific evidence that earth's axis tilted. Now you are saying the scientists are also wrong!?

What would you say would cause a change in the tilt of the earth's axis or a change in it's orbit?

You will recall that I said in my book that man came to the brink of extinction 4200 years ago. This was a massive impact but obviously did not wipe out the planet, and no, it was not as big as the asteroid that wiped out the dynasaurs. Even that one did not destroy the planet nor did it wipe out all life.

Comments from anyone else?

edit:

Even the recent Japanese earthquake moved the earths axis by 50mm.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Alewyn

[Abramelin]

I repeat:

http://www.scienceda...90712080500.htm

Sahara's Abrupt Desertification Started By Changes In Earth's Orbit, Accelerated By Atmospheric And Vegetation Feedbacks

ScienceDaily (July 12, 1999) — WASHINGTON –

“The change from the mid-Holocene climate to that of today was initiated by changes in the Earth's orbit and the tilt of Earth's axis.”

You wanted scientific evidence that earth's axis tilted. Now you are saying the scientists are also wrong!?

What would you say would cause a change in the tilt of the earth's axis or a change in it's orbit?

You will recall that I said in my book that man came to the brink of extinction 4200 years ago. This was a massive impact but obviously did not wipe out the planet, and no, it was not as big as the asteroid that wiped out the dynasaurs. Even that one did not destroy the planet nor did it wipe out all life.

Comments from anyone else?

Did the earth's axis tilt because of an impact? Because that is YOUR theory.

The earth's axis will tilt when the ice sheets of the North and South Pole melt away, yes.

But a change in tilt because of an asteroid impact is quite a different thing.

I repeat: according to scientists the earth's axis didn't even tilt after the impact that killed off the dinosaurs.

++++++++

EDIT:

"Even the recent Japanese earthquake moved the earths axis by 50mm."

50mm.. we are talking about a change in tilt that would make the sun rise lower. That is your interpretation of what the OLB says.

We would have seen that in the tree rings in Northern Europe.

And the climate here would have changed dramatically and forever. Before that impact we would have had a more Mediterraneal climate. Is there proof of that?

.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Abramelin

[Alewyn]

Did the earth's axis tilt because of an impact?

I repeat: according to scientists the earth's axis didn't even tilt after the impact that killed off the dinosaurs.

YES.

As for your second comment, please show where scientists said that the earths axis was not tilted by the "dynasaur" impact.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Alewyn

[The Puzzler]

So... Okke was NOT Adela's son??

The transliteration from OLB script into Latin script gives SVN.

You think it's like "Okke, my sunny boy" or something??

And what are you going on about the OLB being from Norway/Sweden? Check the Old Frisian dictionary I have posted a zillion times now.

Yep, the languages Frisian and Norse - are related, but that's old news.

But that doesn't mean the OLB was written in Norse/Swedish, or was written in Norway/Sweden.

I didn't say anything about Adela...

No, I don't think it says Okke my sunny boy.

Never mind.

[The Puzzler]

What I'm on about is what Otharus is posting about - the story is set mostly in Sweden and Denmark - OUR Schoonland etc - these people were NORDIC.

It's only obvious their underlying language would have been as well.

It's more about the dissing of the language of the OLB as being fake or some lame Latin. Which I don't believe it is.

[Abramelin]

What I'm on about is what Otharus is posting about - the story is set mostly in Sweden and Denmark - OUR Schoonland etc - these people were NORDIC.

It's only obvious their underlying language would have been as well.

It's more about the dissing of the language of the OLB as being fake or some lame Latin. Which I don't believe it is.

Quote me where *I* said the OLB is 'some lame Latin'.

You can't, because I never said that.

I said the OLB is BASED on the Rüstringen dialect (a medieval dialect spoken in/around what is now Wilhelmshaven, Germany), but a 'new and improved' version with invented words.

.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Transliteration by Ottema:

As tha bêda nêva-t-althus navt ênes wrde koste, gvng Tünis to aend stek en râde fône in-t strând, aend Inka êne blâwe. Thêr aefter macht jahwêder kjasa, hwam ek folgja wilde, aend wonder, by Inka thêr en gryns hêde vmbe tha kaeningar fon Findas folk to thjanja, hlipon tha mâsta Finna aend Mâgjara ovir. As hja nw thaet folk tellath aend tha skêpa thêr nêi dêlath hêde, tha skêdon tha flâta fon ekkorum; fon nêf Tünis is aefternêi tâl kêmen, fon nêf Inka ninmer.

Translation using the Deutsches Rechtwoerterbuch:

As tha beda neva ‘t ‘althvs navt enes wrde koste , gvng Tvnis to and stek en rade fone in ‘t strand , and Inka ene blawe . Ther after macht iahweder kiasa , hwam ek folgia wilde , and wonder , bi Inka ther en grins hede vmbe tha kaningar fon Findas folk to thiania , hlipon tha masta Finna and Magiara ovir . As hia nw that folk tellath and tha skepa ther nei delath hede , tha skedon tha flata fon ekkorvm; fon nef Tvnis is afternei tal kemen , fon nef Inka ninmer .

You still think it's Norse??

http://www.rodinbook.nl/testuzelf.html

++++++++++

EDIT:

This is the intro by Menno Knul:

Dutch:

Hieronder is een willekeurige passage uit het Oera Linda Boek afgedrukt om aan te tonen, dat iedereen, die zich de moeite wil getroosten, het boek zonder enig probleem en bijna zonder woordenboek in het zogenaamde Oudfries kan lezen en begrijpen. Taal en spelling lijken namelijk alleen maar op het Oudfries, maar zijn het niet. Er is zelfs geen sprake van een vertaling, maar van een woord-voor-woord omzetting van een moderne Friese tekst in iets wat qua spelling en uitgangen voor Oudfries doorgaat. Ook de woordvolgorde blijft gehandhaaft. Omzetting van de tekst conform het DRW (Deutsches Rechtwoerterbuch) maakt een en ander nog inzichtelijker. Let wel, het gaat hierbij niet om onverwacht modern aandoende uitdrukkingen, die in de literatuur worden gesignaleerd, maar om een normale tekst in het Oera Linda Boek.

English:

Below is a random passage from the Oera Linda Book to show that anyone who wants to sustain the effort, can read and understand the book almost without any problem and without the so-called Old Frisian dictionary. Language and spelling only seem to be in Old Frisian, but are not. There is not even a question of translation, but a word-for-word conversion of a modern Frisian text into something resembling spelling and outputs for Old Frisian . The word order remains the same too. Translating the text under the DRW (Deutsches Rechtwoerterbuch) will produce an even clearer insight. Note that it is not about surprisingly modern sounding phrases, which are reported in the literature, but a normal text in the Oera Linda Book.

http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~cd2/drw/

.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

But Ottema assumed it meant spacious.

It's "Rome, aka "Rum".

NOT Rome, aka Spacious".

Sorry Abe, you are wrong, Ottema was right.

ROME, THAT IS RUM (= spacious!)

[original p.10]

THÁ TO THA LESTA SPRÀK TONGAR UT.A WOLKA ÀND BLIXEN SCHRÉF AN.THÀT LOFT.RVM.. WÁK.

[Ottema/Sandabch p.19]

Toen ten laatste sprak donder uit de wolken en bliksem schreef aan het luchtruim: waak!

then at length [last] thunder burst [spoke] from the clouds, and the lightning wrote upon the firmament [airspace] "Watch [wake]!"

[original p.48]

THÁ VS LÁND SÁ RUM ÀND GRÁT WÉRE, HÉDON WI FÉLO ASONDERGANA NÁMON.

[Ottema/Sandabch p.69]

Daar ons land zoo ruim en groot was, hadden wij vele afzonderlijke namen.

As our country [land] was so [spacious and] great and extensive, we had many different names.

[original p.50]

BÀNDA FINDAS FOLK KÉMON THA LÉTOGHA RUMTNE BIFÁRA.

[Ottema/Sandabch p.71]

Benden Findas volk kwamen de ledige ruimten bezetten.

Troops of Finda's people came and settled in the empty places [spaces].

[original p.53]

WÎND WAS RUM ÀND ALSA WÉRON HJA AN EN ÁMERÎNG TO SKÉN LAND.

[Ottema/Sandabch p.77]

De wind was ruim, en zoo waren zij in een ommezien in Schoonland.

The wind was fair [(plenty)], so they arrived immediately in Schoonland.

[original p.69]

THACH THÁ HJA INNER HAVE HLIPON FONTH MÀN HJA NAVT RUM NOCH VMBE ALLE SKÉPA TO BISLÚTA

[Ottema/Sandabch p.97]

Doch toen zij in de haven liepen, vond men die hier niet ruim genoeg om alle schepen te bevatten

[but] When they entered the harbour, there was not room for [to contain] all the ships,

[original p.78]

NIMMÀN NE MOCHT EN HUS TO BVWANDE, THÀT RUMER ÀND RIKER WÉRE AS THÀT SINRA NÉSTUM

[Ottema/Sandabch p.109]

niemand mocht een huis bouwen, dat ruimer en rijker was als dat van zijn buurman

no one might build a house larger or better [more spacious and rich] than [that of] his neighbours

[original p.93]

HJU SÉID-IM THÀT SAHWERSA HI ADELA VPRUMA KOSTE

[Ottema/Sandabch p.129]

zij zeide hem dat, bijaldien hij Adela uit den weg [op]ruimen konde

she told him that if he could get Adela out of the way [(if he could 'space her up')]

[original p.101]

ALDAM BIDRYWATH HJA MITH EN RUM EMOD

[Ottema/Sandabch p.139]

Dat alles bedrijven zij met een ruim gemoed

They do all this with an easy [('spacious')]conscience

[original p.199]

THÁ THA TRÔJANA TO THA HÉINDA KRÉKALANDUM NESTLED WÉRON,

THA HÀVON HJA THÉR MITH TID ÀND FLIT ÉNE STERKE STÉD MITH WÁLLA ÀND BURGUM BVWED,

ROME, THAT IS RUM, HÉTEN.

[Ottema/Sandabch p.239]

Toen de Trojanen in de heinde Krekalanden genesteld waren,

toen hebben zij daar met tijd en vlijt eene sterke stad met wallen en burgten gebouwd,

Rome, dat is Ruim, geheeten.

When the Trojans had nestled themselves among the near Krekalanders,

with time and industry they built a strong town with walls and citadels

named Rome, that is, Spacious.

[original p.206]

THA ASKAR MÉNDE THÀT-ER THU HÔNDA RUM HÉDE

[Ottema/Sandabch p.249]

Toen Askar meende dat hij de handen ruim had

When Askar thought he had his hands free [('spacious')]

Edited March 22, 2011 by Otharus

[Otharus]

... the story The Lapiths and the Centaurs and they set it in Thessaly.

That sounds like a variety of "TEXLAND" (Texalia) too!

[Otharus]

[original p.199]

THÁ THA TRÔJANA TO THA HÉINDA KRÉKALANDUM NESTLED WÉRON,

THA HÀVON HJA THÉR MITH TID ÀND FLIT ÉNE STERKE STÉD MITH WÁLLA ÀND BURGUM BVWED,

ROME, THAT IS RUM, HÉTEN.

[Ottema/Sandabch p.239]

Toen de Trojanen in de heinde Krekalanden genesteld waren,

toen hebben zij daar met tijd en vlijt eene sterke stad met wallen en burgten gebouwd,

Rome, dat is Ruim, geheeten.

When the Trojans had nestled themselves among the near Krekalanders,

with time and industry they built a strong town with walls and citadels

named Rome, that is, Spacious.

What is said this, basically:

ÉNE STÉD, HÉTEN ROME, THAT IS RUM

een stad, geheten Rome, dat is 'ruim'

a city, named Rome, that is 'room' (space)

[The Puzzler]

Quote me where *I* said the OLB is 'some lame Latin'.

You can't, because I never said that.

I said the OLB is BASED on the Rüstringen dialect (a medieval dialect spoken in/around what is now Wilhelmshaven, Germany), but a 'new and improved' version with invented words.

.

It's not always about you.

I mean in general, people saying words like bedrum and such are ridiculous.

[The Puzzler]

What is said this, basically:

ÉNE STÉD, HÉTEN ROME, THAT IS RUM

een stad, geheten Rome, dat is 'ruim'

a city, named Rome, that is 'room' (space)

Oh right, it can be said in a few ways, yes - so the description of Rome as Rum is mentioned in the OLB, the sentence is describing Rome as Rum, spacious.

So spacious is in it, I'll think some more on it, thanks for that, so many interpretations!

[The Puzzler]

Yeah, I like to use medieval legends when it suits, like all the rest here uses legends when it suits THEM, lol.

And it was in the Snorri Edda that Attila was called Atli.

Don't blame me, blame Snorri.

The strange thing is that Attila was venerated in Nordic countries, so it's no surprise they thought of him as some kind of Nordic 'god'.

I agree that Atli in those sagas SEEMS to be Attila the Hun but it is also mentioned that Thor is also called Atli so the word isn't necessarily connected to just Attila.

The origin of Attila's name is not known with confidence. Pritsak considers it to mean "universal ruler" in a Turkic language related to Danube Bulgarian.[3] Maenchen-Helfen suggests an East Germanic origin and rejects a Turkic etymology: "Attila is formed from Gothic or Gepidic atta, "father," by means of the diminutive suffix -ila." He suggests that Pritsak's etymology is "ingenious but for many reasons unacceptable". However, he suggests that these names were "not the true names of the Hun princes and lords. What we have are Hunnic names in Germanic dress, modified to fit the Gothic tongue, or popular Gothic etymologies, or both. Mikkola thought Attila might go back to Turkish atlïg, "famous"; [127] Poucha finds in it Tokharian atär, "hero." [128] The first etymology is too farfetched to be taken seriously, the second is nonsense."[4]

The name has many variants in modern languages: Atli and Atle in Norse, Attila/Atilla/Etele in Hungarian (all the three name variants are used in Hungary; Attila is the most popular variant), Etzel in the German Nibelungenlied, or Attila, Atila or Atilla in modern Turkish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attila_the_Hun

You said Water - I know of a Nordic Goddess called Atli also, she is a water Goddess, so Atli could also mean water.

But the word used in the OLB is specifically ALDland, no ATL sound until the sailors shortened/changed it, cause they were lazy speakers.

So, it really shouldn't stem from any word like Atl, water.

Edited March 22, 2011 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Sorry Abe, you are wrong, Ottema was right.

ROME, THAT IS RUM (= spacious!)

[original p.10]

THÁ TO THA LESTA SPRÀK TONGAR UT.A WOLKA ÀND BLIXEN SCHRÉF AN.THÀT LOFT.RVM.. WÁK.

[Ottema/Sandabch p.19]

Toen ten laatste sprak donder uit de wolken en bliksem schreef aan het luchtruim: waak!

then at length [last] thunder burst [spoke] from the clouds, and the lightning wrote upon the firmament [airspace] "Watch [wake]!"

[original p.48]

THÁ VS LÁND SÁ RUM ÀND GRÁT WÉRE, HÉDON WI FÉLO ASONDERGANA NÁMON.

[Ottema/Sandabch p.69]

Daar ons land zoo ruim en groot was, hadden wij vele afzonderlijke namen.

As our country [land] was so [spacious and] great and extensive, we had many different names.

[original p.50]

BÀNDA FINDAS FOLK KÉMON THA LÉTOGHA RUMTNE BIFÁRA.

[Ottema/Sandabch p.71]

Benden Findas volk kwamen de ledige ruimten bezetten.

Troops of Finda's people came and settled in the empty places [spaces].

[original p.53]

WÎND WAS RUM ÀND ALSA WÉRON HJA AN EN ÁMERÎNG TO SKÉN LAND.

[Ottema/Sandabch p.77]

De wind was ruim, en zoo waren zij in een ommezien in Schoonland.

The wind was fair [(plenty)], so they arrived immediately in Schoonland.

[original p.69]

THACH THÁ HJA INNER HAVE HLIPON FONTH MÀN HJA NAVT RUM NOCH VMBE ALLE SKÉPA TO BISLÚTA

[Ottema/Sandabch p.97]

Doch toen zij in de haven liepen, vond men die hier niet ruim genoeg om alle schepen te bevatten

[but] When they entered the harbour, there was not room for [to contain] all the ships,

[original p.78]

NIMMÀN NE MOCHT EN HUS TO BVWANDE, THÀT RUMER ÀND RIKER WÉRE AS THÀT SINRA NÉSTUM

[Ottema/Sandabch p.109]

niemand mocht een huis bouwen, dat ruimer en rijker was als dat van zijn buurman

no one might build a house larger or better [more spacious and rich] than [that of] his neighbours

[original p.93]

HJU SÉID-IM THÀT SAHWERSA HI ADELA VPRUMA KOSTE

[Ottema/Sandabch p.129]

zij zeide hem dat, bijaldien hij Adela uit den weg [op]ruimen konde

she told him that if he could get Adela out of the way [(if he could 'space her up')]

[original p.101]

ALDAM BIDRYWATH HJA MITH EN RUM EMOD

[Ottema/Sandabch p.139]

Dat alles bedrijven zij met een ruim gemoed

They do all this with an easy [('spacious')]conscience

[original p.199]

THÁ THA TRÔJANA TO THA HÉINDA KRÉKALANDUM NESTLED WÉRON,

THA HÀVON HJA THÉR MITH TID ÀND FLIT ÉNE STERKE STÉD MITH WÁLLA ÀND BURGUM BVWED,

ROME, THAT IS RUM, HÉTEN.

[Ottema/Sandabch p.239]

Toen de Trojanen in de heinde Krekalanden genesteld waren,

toen hebben zij daar met tijd en vlijt eene sterke stad met wallen en burgten gebouwd,

Rome, dat is Ruim, geheeten.

When the Trojans had nestled themselves among the near Krekalanders,

with time and industry they built a strong town with walls and citadels

named Rome, that is, Spacious.

[original p.206]

THA ASKAR MÉNDE THÀT-ER THU HÔNDA RUM HÉDE

[Ottema/Sandabch p.249]

Toen Askar meende dat hij de handen ruim had

When Askar thought he had his hands free [('spacious')]

OK, so Rome means 'spacious' according to the OLB.

Thâ tha Trôjana to tha hêinda Krêkalandum nestled wêron, tha haevon hja thêr mith tid aend flit êne sterke stêd mith wâlla aend burgum bvwed, Rome, that is Rum, hêten.

When the Trojans had nestled themselves among the near Krekalanders, with time and industry they built a strong town with walls and citadels named Rome, that is, Spacious.

========

Etymology

About the origin of the name Roma several hypotheses have been advanced. The most important are the following:

-from Rommylos (Romulus), son of Ascanius and founder of the city;

-from Rumon or Rumen, archaic name of Tiber. It has the same root of the Greek verb ῥέω (rhèo) and of the Latin verb ruo, which both mean "flow";

-from the Etruscan word ruma, whose root is *rum-, "teat", with possible reference either to the totem wolf that adopted and suckled the cognately named twins Romulus and Remus, or to the shape of Palatine and Aventine hills;

-from the Greek word ῤώμη (rhòme), which means strength;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome

So we can add a new etymology to the name Rome...

[Abramelin]

It's not always about you.

I mean in general, people saying words like bedrum and such are ridiculous.

No, it's not always about me, but because you were responding to me and visa versa, it's not that strange that I thought you were saying it was me who had said it was some kind of lame Latin.

Btw, who DID say it??

[Abramelin]

I agree that Atli in those sagas SEEMS to be Attila the Hun but it is also mentioned that Thor is also called Atli so the word isn't necessarily connected to just Attila.

The origin of Attila's name is not known with confidence. Pritsak considers it to mean "universal ruler" in a Turkic language related to Danube Bulgarian.[3] Maenchen-Helfen suggests an East Germanic origin and rejects a Turkic etymology: "Attila is formed from Gothic or Gepidic atta, "father," by means of the diminutive suffix -ila." He suggests that Pritsak's etymology is "ingenious but for many reasons unacceptable". However, he suggests that these names were "not the true names of the Hun princes and lords. What we have are Hunnic names in Germanic dress, modified to fit the Gothic tongue, or popular Gothic etymologies, or both. Mikkola thought Attila might go back to Turkish atlïg, "famous"; [127] Poucha finds in it Tokharian atär, "hero." [128] The first etymology is too farfetched to be taken seriously, the second is nonsense."[4]

The name has many variants in modern languages: Atli and Atle in Norse, Attila/Atilla/Etele in Hungarian (all the three name variants are used in Hungary; Attila is the most popular variant), Etzel in the German Nibelungenlied, or Attila, Atila or Atilla in modern Turkish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attila_the_Hun

You said Water - I know of a Nordic Goddess called Atli also, she is a water Goddess, so Atli could also mean water.

But the word used in the OLB is specifically ALDland, no ATL sound until the sailors shortened/changed it, cause they were lazy speakers.

So, it really shouldn't stem from any word like Atl, water.

You can read a lot more about Attila/Atli here: http://www.timelessmyths.com/norse/german.html

And yeah, those sailors were lazy speakers, like Plato..

[The Puzzler]

The following contains some interesting fragments, i.m.o.:

The dawn of the Scandinavian Bronze Age has been traced back to the 16th century B.C and lasted for a thousand years before it was gradually evolved into the Iron Age of the fifth century B.C. The population of Scandinavia of that time is supposed to have consisted of a fusion of groups native to the area from the earliest Neolithic period and of immigrant groups known as the Battle Axe people who apparently emerged from east-central Europe and who settled in the Baltic and in Scandinavia during the Neolithic period. Hallmarks of their culture were the battle-axes and individual burials.

(...)

Indo-European language and culture was certainly dominant in Scandinavia by the time of the Iron Age.

I once proposed that it was this people who are actually the Magyars and Finns.

Around 2400 BC the people of the Corded Ware replaced their predecessors and expanded to Danubian and Nordic areas of western Germany. One related branch invaded Denmark and southern Sweden

The above explains how one lot went into Twiskland, Germany and one lot went North into "Schoonland", Denmark and Sweden.

That it was so even in the Bronze Age seems very plausible, also that there were certain likenesses in culture between the Scandinavian upper classes and those of southern Europe such as the aristocratic Greeks who produced the heroic poetry of the Iliad and the Odyssey. There was certainly a great deal of trade and travel between the North and South during the Bronze Age, and even ideas and cultic practice were being exchanged. Labyrinth symbols from Crete have been found in rock carvings in the north of Norway, dating back to the time of the Minoan civilization. Symbols of Sacred Marriage were common all over Scandinavia during the Bronze Age, another link to Mediterranean and Middle Eastern religions. As illustrated by the image above, the Scandinavian Sacred Marriage was often depicted in burial chambers or on the lids of burial urns showing that the Sacred Marriage as a symbol was, in some way or other, associated with resurrection and the afterlife already then.

Labyrinth symbols of antiquity are also in Gotland. I find it one of the most interesting connections - the labyrinth can mean the axe symbol, so it seems a possible association.

The same symbol in Crete and Norway during Minoan Crete times is quite interesting really, "plausible" even, that contact was being made.

The rest of your post was good reading too.

Edited March 22, 2011 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

No, it's not always about me, but because you were responding to me and visa versa, it's not that strange that I thought you were saying it was me who had said it was some kind of lame Latin.

Btw, who DID say it??

When we first started this thread it was bought up that the OLB was OBVIOUSLY faked because the language didn't seem to be real and made up of Latin words, Dutch etc to create some fantastical fake language...

... but by 1879 it was universally recognized that the text was a recent composition

etc

[Abramelin]

When we first started this thread it was bought up that the OLB was OBVIOUSLY faked because the language didn't seem to be real and made up of Latin words, Dutch etc to create some fantastical fake language...

... but by 1879 it was universally recognized that the text was a recent composition

etc

Did you read my former post on the word for word translation using the Deutsches Rechtswörterbuch ??

If not, please read it again, especially the edit....

From post 3658 (jesus!! we will hit 4000 soon !!) :

"Below is a random passage from the Oera Linda Book to show that anyone who wants to sustain the effort, can read and understand the book almost without any problem and without the so-called Old Frisian dictionary. Language and spelling only seem to be in Old Frisian, but are not. There is not even a question of translation, but a word-for-word conversion of a modern Frisian text into something resembling spelling and outputs for Old Frisian . The word order remains the same too. Translating the text under the DRW (Deutsches Rechtwoerterbuch) will produce an even clearer insight. Note that it is not about surprisingly modern sounding phrases, which are reported in the literature, but a normal text in the Oera Linda Book."

==

OK.

Now back to RUM again....

I found out it is not Old Norse, nor Old Frisian nor Old English, but... that it's Gothic and Old German, and does indeed mean 'room' (noun) or 'spaceous' (adj.):

Old German (letter -R-):

http://koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/germanischeswoerterbuch/germ-R.doc

Gothic (letter -R-):

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/gotischeswoerterbuch/GOT-R.pdf

You can check those other dictonaries ("woordenboek") on the next site: http://taaldacht.nl/ and then look at the right sidebar (and scroll down) for the links.

.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

OK, so Rome means 'spacious' according to the OLB.

Thâ tha Trôjana to tha hêinda Krêkalandum nestled wêron, tha haevon hja thêr mith tid aend flit êne sterke stêd mith wâlla aend burgum bvwed, Rome, that is Rum, hêten.

When the Trojans had nestled themselves among the near Krekalanders, with time and industry they built a strong town with walls and citadels named Rome, that is, Spacious.

========

Etymology

About the origin of the name Roma several hypotheses have been advanced. The most important are the following:

-from Rommylos (Romulus), son of Ascanius and founder of the city;

-from Rumon or Rumen, archaic name of Tiber. It has the same root of the Greek verb ῥέω (rhèo) and of the Latin verb ruo, which both mean "flow";

-from the Etruscan word ruma, whose root is *rum-, "teat", with possible reference either to the totem wolf that adopted and suckled the cognately named twins Romulus and Remus, or to the shape of Palatine and Aventine hills;

-from the Greek word ῤώμη (rhòme), which means strength;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome

So we can add a new etymology to the name Rome...

That it might mean "teat" is pure speculation. Its later mythological associations cast doubt upon that meaning; after all, none of the original settlers was raised by wolves, and the founders were unlikely to have been familiar with this myth about themselves. The name, Tiberius, may well contain the name of the Tiber. It is believed now to be from an Etruscan name, Thefarie, in which case Tiber would be from *Thefar.

http://www.ismarmed.com/origins.html

PS: Your post above Abe looks good but it's so late I will check it tomorrow properly.

Edited March 22, 2011 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

That it might mean "teat" is pure speculation. Its later mythological associations cast doubt upon that meaning; after all, none of the original settlers was raised by wolves, and the founders were unlikely to have been familiar with this myth about themselves. The name, Tiberius, may well contain the name of the Tiber. It is believed now to be from an Etruscan name, Thefarie, in which case Tiber would be from *Thefar.

http://www.ismarmed.com/origins.html

PS: Your post above Abe looks good but it's so late I will check it tomorrow properly.

Yeah, but I also mentioned "Rumon" or "Rumen", the archaic name of the Tiber.

==

Concerning those posts about the Deutsches Rechtworterbuch, Old German and Gothic: it's interesting that it all leads to Gothic, Halbertsma's favorite language, aside from his other favorite, the Rüstringen dialect

[Otharus]

OERA SKELDA ~ Over the Schelde

[original p.62]

OVERA SKELDA ET THÉRE FLYBURCH SAT SYRHÉD

[Ottema/Sandbach p.87]

Over de Schelde op de Flyburgt, zat Sijrhed

On the other side of the Scheldt, at Flyburgt, Sijrhed presided

Here "over the Scheldt" means: on the South side of the Scheldt, because the story is told from the perspective of Walhallagara (Walcheren on one of the "Seven Islands"). The "Fly-" of the name "Flyburch" cannot refer to the (same) river Fly as from the Flymar and the Flymvda elsewhere in the text. It probably means "flee" here as in "to escape". Much later in the text (and in time) there is a Fly- or Wêraburch in the Krylwald near Ljvwerde (original p.206, Ottema/Sandbach p.247).

What would be a possible location for a Flyburch south of the Scheldt?

Considering the fact that convicted criminals were given the chance to "flee" to Britain, I would guess that the Flyburch should have been close to Calais.

[original p.66-67]

THÁ STRÁMADA THÀT ORA SKELDE FOLK TO HÁPA

(...)

HELP.RIK THENE HÉR.MAN LÉT.IM INBANNA.

MEN THA HWILA ALLE WÉRAR JETA O.RA SKELDA WÉRON.

FOR JON TO BEK. NÉI.T.FLY.MAR ÀND FORTH WITHER NÉI VSA ÀLANDUM

(...)

HI DÉDE RJUCHT. HWAND AL VSA ÀLANDAR

ÀND ALLE.T O.RA SKELDA FOLK THÉR FJUCHTEN HÉDON

WRDON NÉI BRITTANJA BROCHT

[Ottema p.93]

Toen stroomde het andere [over-de-]Schelda volk te hoop

(...)

Helprijk, de heerman, liet hem indagen,

maar terwijl alle soldaten nog aan de overzijde van de Schelde waren,

voer Jon terug naar het Flymeer en terstond daarna [weer] naar onze eilanden

(...)

Hij deed terecht, want al onze eilanders

en al het andere [over-de-]Schelde volk, die gevochten hadden,

werden naar Brittanje gebracht

[sandbach p.93]

Then the other [over-the-]Schelda people poured out towards her

(...)

Helprik, the chief, summoned him to appear;

but while all the soldiers were on the other side of the Scheldt,

Jon sailed back to the Flymeer, and then straight [again] to our islands

(...)

He did well, for all our islanders,

and [all] the other [over-the-]Scheldt people who had been fighting

were transported [brought] to Britain

[original p.204]

SA SKOLDE HJRA KÉNING ASKAR OVERA SKELDA GVNGGA ÀND THÉR THÀT LAND OFWINNA

[Ottema/Sandbach p.245]

dan zoude haar koning Askar over de Schelde gaan en daar het land afwinnen

then her King Askar would go over the Scheldt and win back the land

[original p.210]

ASKAR THÉR MÉNDE THÀT ALLES GOD GVNG, LANDE MITH SINA SKÉPA ANNA THA ÔRE SYDE THÉRE SKELDA

[Ottema/Sandbach p.253]

Askar, die meende, dat alles goed ging, landde met zijne schepen aan de overkant der Schelde

Askar, who thought that all was going on well, landed with his ships on the other side of the Scheldt

And now... my favorite part of this post:

As I showed earlier, in the OLB the whole area between Jutland and the Scheldt is sometimes referred to as "Denemarka".

The 'Dani' probably have lived all over the coast from Jutland down to Normandy.

I would like to suggest that the legendary Scyldings from the BEOWULF-epic were a 'Danish' royal family whose unexplained name can be related to the SKELDE/ SKELDA/ Scheldt/ Schelde area.

I was surprised that even Joel Vandemaelle, who created many alternative (and sometimes very far-fetched) etymologies, did not mention this possibility in his book "Het BEOWULF-epos ~ Angelsaksisch of Fries-Saksisch erfgoed van omstreeks 500 uit Frans-Vlaanderen".

Edited March 22, 2011 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

Well, you're the one really working here, lol.

About that FLYBURCH... have you thought about how 'terps' (artificial mounds) are being called in Zeeland (a Dutch pronince): VLIEDBERG !!

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vliedberg

I have never connected the two, but when you mentioned Flyburg and Over the Scheldt, I thought: Bingo!