Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


Riaan

Recommended Posts

I have searched and searched for something resembling an OLB citadel - made from brick, circular, ring moat, brick hexagonal tower in the center, longhouses arranged around the tower so that the whole looks like a 6-spoked wheel from up above...

All I found was this: a plot pattern for a terp village:

TERPDORP-KAVELPATROON.jpg

... which happens to be the pattern of the village Haverschmidt lived in (Foudgum, Friesland).

May I assume you included archaeological records in your search Abe?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

May I assume you included archaeological records in your search Abe?

Of course, that's the first thing I did.

You will remember I have posted about ringwall burghts, which developed into motte castles during the middle ages.

But they are too recent for anything OLB.

.

Edited by Abramelin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course, that's the first thing I did.

Mmmmh I thought as much but now I'm not sure what to think. But as my father used to say... "You know what thought did?" Ans..."He thought."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mmmmh I thought as much but now I'm not sure what to think. But as my father used to say... "You know what thought did?" Ans..."He thought."

Well, many of those terps are really ancient.

And they are in Frisian territory.

AND.. there were thousands of them, and also in the Dutch province of Zeeland (once Frisian territory) where they were called 'vliedbergs' (or artificial mounds one could flee to when the flood waters crept up to their necks, lol).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, many of those terps are really ancient.

And they are in Frisian territory.

AND.. there were thousands of them, and also in the Dutch province of Zeeland (once Frisian territory) where they were called 'vliedbergs' (or artificial mounds one could flee to when the flood waters crept up to their necks, lol).

So the OLB is likely to be okay talking about the strange layout of Villages and again assuming many have been built over with the progress of time. I tried googling but decided to leave it alone since I'm no expert on Dutch as you know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Something else: it were the Frisians who invented these 'terps', and that from many centuries BC.

Do we read anything about these terps in the OLB? NO, nothing, nada.

A wiki page about these terps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_dwelling_hill

It's my idea that these terps were nothing but those 'citadels' we read a lot about in the OLB.

But these terps were not impressive enough (a circular mound, a couple of houses around some church, add a dozen whore houses - the burgtmaidens, LOL - and all that), and so they were 'changed' into something a lot more impressive in the OLB: citadels.

.

Edited by Abramelin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Something else: it were the Frisians who invented these 'terps', and that from many centuries BC.

Do we read anything about these terps in the OLB? NO, nothing, nada.

A wiki page about these terps: http://en.wikipedia....l_dwelling_hill

It's my idea that these terps were nothing but those 'citadels' we read a lot about in the OLB.

But these terps were not impressive enough (a circular mound, a couple of houses around some church, add a dozen whore houses and all that), and so they were 'changed' into something a lot more impressive in the OLB: citadels.

Well from your and other posters on here do you have enough confidence to one way or the other that the whole of the OLB is a hoax or just some of it as seems to be?

Huh I think I know what your answer will be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the OLB is likely to be okay talking about the strange layout of Villages and again assuming many have been built over with the progress of time. I tried googling but decided to leave it alone since I'm no expert on Dutch as you know.

The OLB never mentions terps or villages built on these terps.

Yeah, they have been built over through time, but no archeologist found anything spectacular made of bricks.

And they DID dig into these terps, believe me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well from your and other posters on here do you have enough confidence to one way or the other that the whole of the OLB is a hoax or just some of it as seems to be?

Huh I think I know what your answer will be.

I think it is a fabulation, a fantasy, or some student/professor's joke, and not even meant to be taken seriously.

But you already knew that when you asked me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it is a fabulation, a fantasy, or some student/professor's joke, and not even meant to be taken seriously.

But you already knew that when you asked me.

Yes I did. However I was wondering if anything you had found had changed your views one iota.

But thanks for your honesty. (I hope the others read these posts.. maybe it will spark some more discussion aye?

PS: That land you are sitting on must be some of the best agricultural land ever made up as it is by silt from the rivers just amazing what people are prepared to do to live on it. It's very like living on the side of a volcano me thinks.

Edited by Flashbangwollap
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I did. However I was wondering if anything you had found had changed your views one iota.

But thanks for your honesty. (I hope the others read these posts.. maybe it will spark some more discussion aye?

I have found things - archeological things - that may somewhat corroborate the OLB. And I am the only one here bringing these archeological finds up.

But many pages in this thread are about nothing but nitpicking about words and etymology.

I am convinced that will not bring us very far.

Those wordgames can prove 1+1=3....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The OLB never mentions terps or villages built on these terps.

Read here:

27. [105/15-18]

HWÉR STAND THIN HUS THÀN. FRÉJE TRÁST. (...)

NE STAND.ET THÀN NAVT VPP.EN NOL. JEFTHA THERP. FRÉJE TRÁST

[O+S p.145]

Waar stond uw huis dan, vroeg Troost. (...)

Stond het dan niet op eene nol (ronde hoogte) of terp, vroeg Troost

Where did your house stand? Troost asked. (...)

Did it not stand on a knoll [or terp]? Troost asked

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have found things - archeological things - that may somewhat corroborate the OLB. And I am the only one here bringing these archeological finds up.

But many pages in this thread are about nothing but nitpicking about words and etymology.

I am convinced that will not bring us very far.

Those wordgames can prove 1+1=3....

You are starting to sound like a parrot now... :rolleyes:

There's not an awful lot to bring up except for what YOU found, yes you, I acknowledge it, on the things found of Cretan look in Frisia, by the way, do you have the link on hand to that again because I've been searching ever since to find some more on it, not much is coming up.

I am tending to think that the manuscript is recently written - the reasoning for that is, among some other things, the numbers. They just weren't around in Europe much earlier than 14th century.

I'll tell you what though, it hasn't made me think the general events written about are not true, some of the ancientness of it may be over-estimated or we could be interpreting some things wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Something else: it were the Frisians who invented these 'terps', and that from many centuries BC.

Do we read anything about these terps in the OLB? NO, nothing, nada.

Correction Abe:

Book of Adela’s Followers: (Chapter 2)

"Obedient children! When they came to themselves again, they made this high mound and built this burgh on it, on the walls they wrote the Tex, and that every one should be able to find it they called the land about it Texland. Therefore it shall remain as long as the earth shall be the earth"

The Writings of Adelbrost and Appolonia

“Where did your house stand then?” asked Trast.

“On the banks of the Rhine.” answered the man.

“Did it not stand on a knoll or a terp?” asked Trast.

“Neither” he said. “My house stands alone on the bank. I have built it alone, but I could not make a terp on my own.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are starting to sound like a parrot now... :rolleyes:

There's not an awful lot to bring up except for what YOU found, yes you, I acknowledge it, on the things found of Cretan look in Frisia, by the way, do you have the link on hand to that again because I've been searching ever since to find some more on it, not much is coming up.

I am tending to think that the manuscript is recently written - the reasoning for that is, among some other things, the numbers. They just weren't around in Europe much earlier than 14th century.

I'll tell you what though, it hasn't made me think the general events written about are not true, some of the ancientness of it may be over-estimated or we could be interpreting some things wrong.

Lol, I was just teasing you all a bit in the hope someone else would start digging for something archeological.

What you think I felt when I found that hexagonal (which was actually octagonal, btw) Roman tower in Dover, England??

And when I talk about wordgames/etymologies, I did my share here as you know.

-

Things found of a Cretan look in Frisia? You mean the remnants of a ship German divers found off the coast of Denmark, a ship that contained Minoan household stuff (- NOT merchandise) and dated from around 1500 BC??

+++

EDIT:

OK, assuming you meant that find off the coast of Denmark, read my post 1944, page 130.

The links were:

http://codexceltica.blogspot.com/2009/10/homers-north-atlantic-odyssey.html

http://britam.org/now/660Now.htm

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/08/minoans-in-germany.html

(and scroll down till you see a TOOS giving a translation from German.):

"Some translation of the first part:

So the really exciting findings are lying under the late-medieval Rungholt?

At least the most surprising. Obviously there are several preceding settlements from the 4rth and 3rd century BC. One find did almost upset us: we came upon remains of levantine and especially minoan ceramics for transportation and daily use from Crete, 13th and 14th century BC. Among this, sherds of two tripod coockingpots. That's why we suppose ships traveling already 1400 BC from Crete to the coast of northern Frisia.

Would this be antiqities, transported by a modern ship?

No. Our findings were lying under a bronze-age layer of peat, build up - we suspect - already 1200 BC. Indeed during settlement in the middle ages, most of these turflayers were dug off - but nowhere in places to be used for wharfs and hauses. And exactly at such a place we discovered the antique ceramics! The pots we found, were highly likely not tradewares, finding their way to northern Frisia by commision-agents. The valueless ceramics for daily use did belong with great certainty to the equipment of a ship.

What could have tempted the Minoans from Crete in the North Sea in the 14th century BC?

That was the tin from Cornwall [etcetera]

So, probably a little bit more than one pot."

.

Edited by Abramelin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Correction Abe:

Book of Adela’s Followers: (Chapter 2)

"Obedient children! When they came to themselves again, they made this high mound and built this burgh on it, on the walls they wrote the Tex, and that every one should be able to find it they called the land about it Texland. Therefore it shall remain as long as the earth shall be the earth"

The Writings of Adelbrost and Appolonia

“Where did your house stand then?” asked Trast.

“On the banks of the Rhine.” answered the man.

“Did it not stand on a knoll or a terp?” asked Trast.

“Neither” he said. “My house stands alone on the bank. I have built it alone, but I could not make a terp on my own.”

OK Otharus and Alewyn, I stand corrected.

But Alewyn, your first quote proves what I said: archeologists did research those artificial mounds, but found nothing that could point to a burcht or citadel. There are still thousands left, but I have never heard of 3000 years old baked bricks and remants of a tower in/on those terps. It can't be that everything later people found of these bricks and so on was re-used for other buildings. And those 6-spoked structures should have left an imprint in the soil archeologists would still be able to detect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is more like it, but still... it dates from the (early) middle ages: a ringwall burch in Zutphen:

(red spokes added by me according to the roads)

ringwalburg_zutphen.jpg

http://www.zutphen.nl/Producten/WonenVerkeer/Pics/Archeologie/ZAP/zap022/ZAP%2022%20Ringwalburg%20deel1%20-.pdf

Zutphen%20in%20het%20jaar%20900.jpg

.

Edited by Abramelin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And now for something completely different.. The Birch... sorry, the Magyar.

Dunno what to think of the extraordinary claims on the next site, but here are some quotes:

Out of my humble lectures I understand so far that Scythians were Indo-Europeans and NOT Uralic/Turkish as the Magyars. According to the Continuity Theory of Alinei the Proto-Magyars related to Etruscs, that came down to Pannonia at –1250, or even much sooner, are Uralic/Turkish people maybe related to the Magyars that came 2000 years later. Maybe there is a relation between Hun and Avar Empire as they were both Confederations of several nations, many of which for sure had continuity during the Hun and Avar Empires. So there can not be ONE Magyar-Scythian-Hun-Avar continuity, but at least 2 to superimposed lineages and several influences: 1) Scythians/Indo-Europeans, 2) Proto-Magyars and 2000 years later Magyars; hunmagyar.org 3) Hun/Avar Turkish migrations, 4) Celtic lineage; 5) Goths, Gepids and so on. Pannonia as all big planes were too open for a single continuity

***

Taking into consideration Hungarian language relics from the Paleolithic, the Tatárlaka discovery, and archaeologist Zsófia Torma‘s (1840-1899) discovery of several thousand written tablets from the banks of the Maros River in Transylvania, we can justly suppose that the oldest writing on our globe developed in the Carpathian Basin. The fact that the signs on the Tatárlaka disk are 1,000-1,500 years older than similar Mesopotamian hieroglyphic signs reinforces the hypothesis that the cradle of writing was the Carpathian Basin. The Hungarian people, whose ancestors created these letters, still live there.

***

4 The Táltos were a high priestly class. Nobody can simply become a Táltos, they are chosen by God, and fulfill their calling by His grace http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A1ltos

***

Both the Germanico runes and the Magyar rovás derive from an earlier, pre-Indo-European 16-letter *VUARK alphabet congruent with the ancient Finno-Ugric phonology, and were made up with characters identical or similar to Vinča signs. The European scripts later inherited these same *VUARK letters, with the same original phonetic values.

***

The Flavio *VUARK could have been brought to the shores of the Baltic Sea by those Hungarian populations that migrated from the Carpathian Basin northwards at the beginning of the 2nd millennium B.C.. (See the book ‘Honfoglalás… the Magyars are back home’, page 85).

The Flavio *VUARK evolved in two different scripts: Pannonico *VUARK (from which the Magyar rovás derived) and Finnic *VUARK (from which the Germanico runes derived). There are only a few letters which make the difference between these two *VUARKs. Astonishingly, the Magyar rovás, the Mother of all alphabets, kept both variations

***

The Europeans did not copy their alphabets from the Phoenicians; but the Phoenicians, the Greeks, and the Etruscans did copy the European *Pannonico alphabet.

The Hungarians were in Europe in the 14th century B.C.. (See ‘Honfoglalás… the Magyars are back home’). They brought the 16-letter Flavio *VUARK alphabet to Northern Europe, where it evolved as Germanico runes. They also brought the *Pannonico alphabet to Central Asia, where it evolved as Magyar rovás, and other Asiatic scripts.

http://aleximreh.wordpress.com/2011/01/14/the-genocide-of-the-old-scythian-writing-ordered-by-the-popes/

http://aleximreh.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/th-first-great-civilization-of-europe-cucutenitrypillia-50003000-b-c/

Lol, read this site.... not everybody is convinced:

http://www.pestiside.hu/20070827/hungarians-invented-the-alphabet-according-to-this-italian/

Something about the Magyar Religion:

http://hargita.awardspace.com/taltos/taltosen.html

http://hargita.awardspace.com/bevezeten.html

OMG..

http://www.magtudin.org/Arthur%20part%202.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

-

Things found of a Cretan look in Frisia? You mean the remnants of a ship German divers found off the coast of Denmark, a ship that contained Minoan household stuff (- NOT merchandise) and dated from around 1500 BC??

+++

EDIT:

OK, assuming you meant that find off the coast of Denmark, read my post 1944, page 130.

The links were:

http://codexceltica.blogspot.com/2009/10/homers-north-atlantic-odyssey.html

http://britam.org/now/660Now.htm

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/08/minoans-in-germany.html

(and scroll down till you see a TOOS giving a translation from German.):

"Some translation of the first part:

So the really exciting findings are lying under the late-medieval Rungholt?

At least the most surprising. Obviously there are several preceding settlements from the 4rth and 3rd century BC. One find did almost upset us: we came upon remains of levantine and especially minoan ceramics for transportation and daily use from Crete, 13th and 14th century BC. Among this, sherds of two tripod coockingpots. That's why we suppose ships traveling already 1400 BC from Crete to the coast of northern Frisia.

Would this be antiqities, transported by a modern ship?

No. Our findings were lying under a bronze-age layer of peat, build up - we suspect - already 1200 BC. Indeed during settlement in the middle ages, most of these turflayers were dug off - but nowhere in places to be used for wharfs and hauses. And exactly at such a place we discovered the antique ceramics! The pots we found, were highly likely not tradewares, finding their way to northern Frisia by commision-agents. The valueless ceramics for daily use did belong with great certainty to the equipment of a ship.

What could have tempted the Minoans from Crete in the North Sea in the 14th century BC?

That was the tin from Cornwall [etcetera]

So, probably a little bit more than one pot."

.

Yes, my brain was being a bit slow this morning and now it's too late to get into this here, just shutting down, will check this out better tomorrow, thanks!

Edited by The Puzzler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, my brain was being a bit slow this morning and now it's too late to get into this here, just shutting down, will check this out better tomorrow, thanks!

You're welcome, and sleep well.

Btw, that nice picture (second one in my post about Zutphen) is from http://www.laarstraat.nl/de-stad-zutphen

But whatever I do, I cannot find the original picture in which I draw the red spokes, lol. And the picture in the pdf is too vague.

-----

I found something on a Pagan site about the Yule Wheel. I don't know how much of it is historically true, but I noticed a thing (underlined) about "Mothers" (women are the leaders - and so on - in much of the OLB):

Origins of Yule

Although the ancient origins of Yule are lost in the annals of time, we, as a Folk, can determine from the lore several constants. Yule was at the end of the year and heralded in the rebirth of the Sun. Held on the Winter solstice (around the modern Dec. 21st), Yule, which literally means wheel, was the ending of the cycle of the year. There is no specific reference in texts of 12 days, but there is reference to a several day celebration extending beyond, at least 7 days. The first night is dedicated to Mothers, called The Mother night Blot. The last night is called the “Twelfth Night” where oaths are sworn for the coming year. The ancients first believed the year to be split into halves: light half and dark half. Later the year progressed into thirds and finally fourths. The year was also viewed as a ring that passed in cycles. (Grimm) There is some confusion regarding the actual date. Some believe that Yule was in what is now January from either the 7th to the 19th, or the 13th to the 25th. Regardless of the ancient origins, Yule (or a very close variation) has been, and still is, the most celebrated holiday across European/Western Civilization.

http://www.odinic-rite.org/AcornHollow/2009/02/yule-articles/

===

Another interesting site about that Yule Wheel:

http://www.nederlandsheidendom.nl/webstek/hetrad.html

Or in the gibberish (but readable) by Google Translator:

http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nederlandsheidendom.nl%2Fwebstek%2Fhetrad.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Talking about archaeological evidence. Here is something which may be of interest. I know Abe will say people knew about this in the 19th century, but once again, the OLBs facts seem to have some foundation and to me this is more proof that the OLB is authentic.

The Long Walls of Athens were destroyed and rebuilt on numerous occasions. Apparently, the original walls were destroyed by the Persians during their occupation of Attica in 480 BC but I could not find out when they were first built. They were rebuilt, inter alia, in ca 430 BC.

According to the OLB these walls were first built after 1630 BC, say 1600 BC, after Minerva died. :

THE BOOK OF ADELAS FOLLOWERS

29. This is about the Gertmanna

From all these tales the stupid people became resentful towards us and at last they attacked us. We, however, had built our stone bulwark (walls) with two horns all the way to the sea. They could therefore not get to us. Though, what happened is that an Egyptian who was a high priest, bright of eye, clear of brain, and enlightened of mind, whose name was Sekrops, came to give them advice.

My contention is that, had this been a hoax, the description of these walls would have been more specific and not just a casual reference made in passing, if you like. The hoaxer(s) would have wanted to make sure that the reader noticed this

http://heritage-key.com/site/long-walls-athens

Longwall2.jpg

Longwall4.jpg

It would also seem quite likely that the small "natural" harbour that Jon and Minerva found the first time would have been, what is today known as the "Zea Marina" or "Zea Port" near Athens. A funny name for a Greek harbour.

Edited by Alewyn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Talking about archaeological evidence. Here is something which may be of interest. I know Abe will say people knew about this in the 19th century, but once again, the OLB’s facts seem to have some foundation and to me this is more proof that the OLB is authentic.

The Long Walls of Athens were destroyed and rebuilt on numerous occasions. Apparently, the original walls were destroyed by the Persians during their occupation of Attica in 480 BC but I could not find out when they were first built. They were rebuilt, inter alia, in ca 430 BC.

According to the OLB these walls were first built after 1630 BC, say 1600 BC, after Minerva died. :

THE BOOK OF ADELA’S FOLLOWERS

29. This is about the Gertmanna

“From all these tales the stupid people became resentful towards us and at last they attacked us. We, however, had built our stone bulwark (walls) with two horns all the way to the sea. They could therefore not get to us. Though, what happened is that an Egyptian who was a high priest, bright of eye, clear of brain, and enlightened of mind, whose name was Sekrops, came to give them advice.”

My contention is that, had this been a hoax, the description of these walls would have been more specific and not just a casual reference made in passing, if you like. The hoaxer(s) would have wanted to make sure that the reader noticed this

http://heritage-key.com/site/long-walls-athens

Longwall2.jpg

Longwall4.jpg

It would also seem quite likely that the small "natural" harbour that Jon and Minerva found the first time would have been, what is today known as the "Zea Marina" or "Zea Port" near Athens. A funny name for a Greek harbour.

According to the OLB they built a citadel in Athens.

The pics you posted do not resemble such a citadel one bit, and the OLB tells us ALL the citadels were built like the one in Texel. Either this is not that citadel, or there isn't one in Athens.

==

Did you read what I posted about the Anglo-Saxon/Frisian presence in Brittain? Now THAT could be proof of the OLB.

++++++++

EDIT:

A description of a citadel:

NOW I WILL WRITE MYSELF, FIRST ABOUT MY CITADEL, AND THEN ABOUT WHAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE.

My city lies near the north end of the Liudgaarde. The tower has six sides, and is ninety feet high, fiat-roofed, with a small house upon it out of which they look at the stars. On either side of the tower is a house three hundred feet long, and twenty-one feet broad, and twenty-one feet high, besides the roof, which is round. All this is built of hard-baked bricks, and outside there is nothing else. The citadel is surrounded by a dyke, with a moat thirty-six feet broad and twenty-one feet deep. If one looks down from the tower, he sees the form of the Juul.

juulschrift.jpg-for-web-small.jpg

In the ground among the houses on the south side all kinds of native and foreign herbs grow, of which the maidens must study the qualities. Among the houses on the north side there are only fields. The three houses on the north are full of corn and other necessaries; the two houses on the south are for the maidens to live in and keep school. The most southern house is the dwelling of the Burgtmaagd. In the tower hangs the lamp. The walls of the tower are decorated with precious stones. On the south wall the Tex is inscribed. On the right side of this are the formulae, and on the other side the laws; the other things are found upon the three other sides. Against the dyke, near the house of the Burgtmaagd, stand the oven and the mill, worked by four oxen. Outside the citadel wall is the place where the Burgtheeren and the soldiers live. The fortification outside is an hour long—not a seaman’s hour, but an hour of the sun, of which twenty-four go to a day. Inside it is a plain five feet below the top. On it are three hundred crossbows covered with wood and leather.

Besides the houses of the inhabitants, there are along the inside of the dyke thirty-six refuge-houses for the people who live in the neighbourhood. The field serves for a camp and for a meadow. On the south side of the outer fortification is the Liudgaarde, enclosed by the great wood of lime-trees. Its shape is three-cornered, with the widest part outside, so that the sun may shine in it, for there are a great number of foreign trees and flowers brought by the seafarers. All the other citadels are the same shape as ours, only not so large; but the largest of all is that of Texland. The tower of the Fryaburgt is so high that it rends the sky, and all the rest is in proportion to the tower. In our citadel this is the arrangement: Seven young maidens attend to the lamp; each watch is three hours. In the rest of their time they do housework, learn, and sleep. When they have watched for seven years, they are free; then they may go among the people, to look after their morals and to give advice. When they have been three years maidens, they may sometimes accompany the older ones.

I can understand that in Greece they didn't use baked bricks as in Texland, but the abundantly available stone/rock.

Such a structure should have been found by now.

Believe me Alewyn, I have searched for hours, no, DAYS for something that looks like an OLB citadel.

And all I could find that resembled those citadels were those early, medieval ringwall burchts or terps.

If the OLB is what it is supposed to be, and if your interpretation (and of many others) of the OLB is right, then archeologists should at least have found ONE example of such a citadel (remnants, pattern traces in the soil) in Europe.

They are able to trace ancient (and no longer existing) rivers in the soil, they are able to trace ancient (and long gone) settlements using the most modern techniques, but never have I heard of a large structure resembling a Yule wheel.

.

Edited by Abramelin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to the OLB they built a citadel in Athens.

The pics you posted do not resemble such a citadel one bit, and the OLB tells us ALL the citadels were built like the one in Texel. Either this is not that citadel, or there isn't one in Athens.

Abe, I am not talking about a citadel here. I am saying that the OLB mentions walls that they built from Athens to the harbour and here is evidence of such walls.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Abe, I am not talking about a citadel here. I am saying that the OLB mentions walls that they built from Athens to the harbour and here is evidence of such walls.

There are walls alright.

And I know you were not talking about a citadel, but if you found one according to the description of the OLB, please let us know.

Those walls were known, and some of the 'suspects' visted the Med regularly (Greece and Italy).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ # $ % & * Priests!?

The OLB is rather negative about priests and other authorities.

Let's look at some of their qualifications.

(The numbers between {...} refer to the fragments below.)

BIDROGLIK = deceitful (NL: bedrieglijk) {8}

FALSK = false (NL: vals) {1,3}

FALX = ,, {4,6,7}

LÀF = cowardly (NL: laf) {5}

NÍDIG = needy, angry, jealous, spiteful (NL: nijdig) {12}

SKIN.FRÁN = pseudo-pious, hypocritical (NL: schijnvroom) {5,10}

SMÚGRIG = dirty, filthy, nasty (NL: smerig) {10}

TJOK ÀND RIK = fat and rich (NL: dik en rijk) {11}

WAN.WIS = pseudo-wise (NL: waanwijs) {4}

WL = foul (NL: vuil) {2,9}

(Personal note: My westfrisian grandmother would use similar terms in this context.)

This anti-authoritarian attitude of the OLB will have been one of the main causes for the emotional and therefore often irrational nature of the debate about it.

The 19th century elite understood very well that this mysterious manuscript had to be much more than just a students' joke.

It had the potential to cause revolution.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

1. [033/15] Skriftum Minno's

ET NIDIGE FOLK FINDA.S MITH HJARA FALSKA PRESTERUM

[O+S p.49]

het nijdige volk Findas met zijne valsche priesteren

the spiteful Finda's people with their false priests

2. [078/18] Ulysus

VMBE BY THA WLA PRESTRUM IN EN GODA HROP TO WÉSANDE

STÀLDON HJA THÉR FALSKA DROCHTEN LIKANDA ÀND VNTUCHTIGA BILDA IN.

BY THA WLA PRESTRUM ÀND FORSTUM

WRDON THA KNÁPA ALTOMET MÁRA GÉRT AS THA TOGHATERA

[O+S p.109]

om bij de vuile priesteren in een goeden dunk te wezen,

plaatsten zij daar op valsche goden gelijkende en ontuchtige beelden in.

Bij de vuile priesteren en vorsten

werden soms de knapen meer begeerd, als de dochteren

in order to remain in good odour with the nasty priests,

they placed there likenesses of false gods and unchaste statues.

Sometimes the dirty priests and princes

wished for the boys rather than the girls

3. [084/08] Denamarka lost

THIT SJANDE SKILUN THA FALSKA FORSTA ÀND PRESTER

ALSAMEN WITH FRYDOM KÀMPA ÀND WOXELJA

[O+S p.117]

Dit ziende zullen de valsche vorsten en priesters

allen te zamen tegen de vrijheid kampen en worstelen

When they perceive this, the false princes and priests

will strive and wrestle against freedom

4. [101/01] Form-leer Apollanja

MEN THI WAN.WISA FALXA MANNA

THAM HJARA SELVA GODIS SKALKA JEFTHA PRESTERA NOMA LÉTA.

BÜRATH ÀND SÁMNATH ÀND GETTHATH ALDAM TOFARA DROCHTNE

THÉR ER NAVT NE SEND VMBET SELVA TO BIHALDANDE

[O+S p.139]

Maar die wanwijze valsche mannen,

die zich zelf godsdienaren ( * ) of priesteren laten noemen,

beuren en zamelen en vergaderen dat alles voor afgoden,

die niet bestaan, om het zelf te behouden

[ * or: godschalken, gosschalken]

but these presumptuous and false men,

who call themselves God's servants and priests,

receive and collect everything in the name of the idols

that have no real existence, for their own benefit

5. [135/27] Dela/Hellenja

MEN THA LÀFA SKIN.FRÁNA PRESTARA NE MACHTON THÀT NAVT NE LYDA.

EMONG HJARA FORSINDE GODUM HÉDON HJA ÁK WRANG.WRÀDA DROCHTNE E.SKÉPEN

[O+S p.185]

Maar de laffe schijnvrome priesters konden dat niet dulden,

onder hunne verdichte goden hadden zij ook booze wreede gedrochten geschapen

but the cowardly hypocritical priests could not suffer this.

Among their false gods they had invented also wicked cruel monsters

6. [138/29] Dela/Hellenja

THAHWILA JES.US LÉRE VR JRTHA FOR.

GVNGON THA FALXA PRESTERA NÉI.T LÁND SINRA BERTA

SIN DÁD AVBÉRA

[O+S p.189]

Terwijl de leer van Jessos over de aarde zich uitbreidde,

gingen de valsche priesters naar het land zijner geboorte,

om zijn dood bekend te maken

While the doctrine of Jessos was thus spreading over the earth,

the false priests went to the land of his birth

to make his death known

7. [141/07] Dela/Hellenja

THA SKILUN THA FALXA PRESTERA WÉI FÁGATH WERTHA FON JRTHA

[O+S p.191]

Dan zullen de valsche priesters weggevaagd worden van de aarde

Then the false priests shall be swept away from the earth

8. [159/12] Gosa

THA BIDROGLIKA PRESTERA ÀND THA WRANG WRÉJA FORSA (sic).

THÉR IMMER SÉMIN HÉLADON.

WILDON NÉI WILKÉR LÉVA

ÀND BUTA GOD.IS ÉWA DVAN

[O+S p.215]

De bedriegelijke priesters en de boosaardige vorsten,

die altijd te zamen heulden,

wilden naar willekeur leven

en buiten de wetten des goeds handelen

The deceitful priests and the malignant princes,

who always clung together,

wished to live according to their own inclinations,

without regard to the laws of right

9. [160/01] Gosa

THA LODDERIGA MANGÉRTNE ÀND THA VNMÀNLIKA KNÁPA

THÉR MITHA WLA PRESTERUM ÀND FORSTUM HORADON

VNTLVKADON THA NYA TÁLA AN HJARA BOLA

[O+S p.217]

De wulpsche meisjes en verwijfde knapen,

die met de onzedelijke priesters en vorsten boeleerden,

ontlokten die nieuwe talen aan hunne boelen

The wanton girls and effeminate youths

who consorted with the immoral priests and princes,

taught [learnt] the new language[-s] to [from] their companions

10. [162/14] Gosa

THISSA LOGHA SKIL ALLE BALDA FORSTA VRTÉRA

ÀND ALLE SKIN.FRÁNA ÀND SMÚGRIGA PRESTERA

[O+S p.219]

Deze vlam zal alle slechte vorsten verteeren

en alle schijnvrome en smerige priesters

that flame will destroy all bad princes

and hypocritical dirty priests

11. [164/14] Ljudgert

IN THET LÔND SIND ÔLLE PRESTERA TJOK ÀND RIK

[O+S p.223]

In dit land zijn alle priesters dik en rijk

In this country all the priests are fat and rich

12. [164/22] Ljudgert

OL THISA NÔMA SIND AR THRVCH THA NÍDIGE PRESTERA JÉVEN

[O+S p.223]

Al deze namen zijn hun door de nijdige priesters gegeven

These names are given by the [jealous?] priests out of spite

Edited by Otharus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.