[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Knul]

THE

FRISIAN LANGUAGE

AND

LITERATURE:

A HISTORICAL STUDY.

BY

VV . T . H E W E T T

.

ITHACA, N. V.

FINCH Of APGAR.

1879.

-

The Relations of the Frisians to the other German Tribes.

The passages already quoted from classic authors show the intimate

relations which existed between the Chauci and the Frisians.

The former are associated with them, according to Tacitus, in the district

between the two arms of the Rhine. They are also placed as

their neighbors on the east, in the region between the Ems and the

Weser. The references in Beowulf to Frisia are of interest. The

sixteenth, seventeenth, thirty-fifth and fortieth cantos relate to a

war between the Frisians and the Danes. The Traveler's Tale relates

how Fin, son of Folcwalda, king of the Frisians, fights with

Hnaef a Hocing, the leader of the Scildings in Finnesburh or Finnesham

and slays him. Hengest the Dane assumes command, a truce

is negotiated and hostages are given. Both armies go together to

Friesland. In the winter the strangers are prevented by frightful

storms and ice from returning home. They think more of vengeance

and the slaughter of their kindred than of seeking their native

land. At last reinforced they attack again the Frisians and slay

their king, and carry captive Hildeburh, the daughter of Hoce to

Denmark. Hygilac, King of the Goths, falls* in a battle with the

Frisians. Beowulf escapes by swimming to his own country.

The name Chauci appears in Hugas (Hockings) who inhabit Frisia,

and perhaps in that of Hoce, the father of Hildeburh. That Fin

the Frisian king ruled over the Jutes as well as the Frisians is inadmissible.

No reference is made to the Jutes in this song. There

is no distinction io the terms employed in the poem between North

and West Frisia, as is often claimed. Whenever the term is used it

seems to apply to the Frisia of the main land, not to the North

Frisia of the peninsula. Freswale may denote a frontier castle.

Grimm calls attention to the similar mode in which the Frisians,

Chauci and Bructeri are characterized. These three tribes of northeastern

Germany are each divided into Lesser and Greater, a distinction

which was employed among no other German tribes, even though

many were much larger and occupied a greater extent of country

than these. Grimm would also make the Bructeri closely related

to the Chauci and Frisians, though their political action was often

different. He claims that the mighty race of the Chauci, whom

Tacitus called the noblest of all the Germans, could not be extinguished,

but that being so closely related to the Frisians they were

absorbed in them. The east and north Frisians are the descendants

of the Chauci, while the west Frisians have retained their name and

original seat.

Eichhorn holds conclusively that the Frisian name includes the

tribes of the Chauci. The Saxons must be regarded as later immigrants

into East Frisia, the original abode of the Chauci.

Grimm calls attention to the fact that in the remains of the epic poetry

of northeastern Germany, the Frisians and Chauci constantly appear,

while the Germans of the interior, of Saxony and of Swabia,

take no part. In Gudrun, whose composition is of a later date, but

is based upon early legends and historical events associated with

which that region, we have the proper names as centres of incident.

Holzane lant (Holstein) 1374, 3. Matelane, 760, 3 (Matlinge (?)

in South Holland), Selant (Zeeland), Sewen (also Zeeland, possibly

named from the Suevi), 706, 1. Tenelant (Denmark), Westerwalt

(possibly Westerwold) 945. Dietmers 639, (Dietmarsch) as well as

Frieslant.

Hetele, king of the Hegelinge, is the ruler of Friesland, of Ditmarsch

and Waleis (the district of the Waal).

*' Er was ze Friesen herre, wazzer unde lant

;

Dietmers unde Waleis was in siner hant."—2o8, i.

Morunc is lord of the march of Waleis.

" Morunc der snelle da her von Friesen reil."—271.

Irolt, a vassal of Hetele, is the ruler of Ortland (Northland), and a

part of Frisia.

" Ouch kumt uns her Irolt, des mag ich wohl jehen,

Er bringet vil der Frisen, als ich mich kan versehen,

Und ouch der Holsaezen ; daz sint ziere helde."—1374.

*' Irolt von Ortriche und Morunc von Friesenlant."—480.

http://www.archive.org/download/frisianlanguagel00hewerich/frisianlanguagel00hewerich_bw.pdf

I thought this was an interesting piece of text. I have mentioned the Chauci a while ago, as a tribe that ended up in Ireland, and as a tribe (together with the Frisians) who started raiding the Atlantic west coast of Europe, long before the Vikings did their thing.

.

This reminded me, that we have not yet understood that Kauch (oviously a Chauk) was a wrong pronounciation for Kap.

[Abramelin]

This reminded me, that we have not yet understood that Kauch (obviously a Chauk) was a wrong pronounciation for Kap.

Is the OLB suggesting the Chauci were buyers/sellers? Traders or something?

Friso hêde hir-ne ôther wif nimth, thju toghater fon Wil-frèthe, bi sin lêve was-er vrste Grêva to Staveren wêst. Thêr bi hêder twên svna wnnen aend twa toghatera. Thrvch sin bilêid is Kornêlja sin jongste toghater mith min brother mant. Kornêlja is wan Fryas and mot Kornhêlja skrêven wrde. Wêmod sin aldeste heth er an Kavch bonden. Kavch thêr âk bi him to skole gvng is thi svnv fon Wichhirte thene Gêrtmanna kaening. Men Kavch is âk wan Fryas aend mot Kâp wêsa.

Friso had taken here another wife, a daughter of Wilfrêthe, who in his lifetime had been chief count of Staveren. By her he had two sons and two daughters. By his wish Kornelia, his youngest daughter, was married to my brother. Kornelia is not good Frisian; her name ought to be written Korn-helia. Weemoed, his eldest daughter, he married to Kauch. Kauch, who went to school to him, is the son of Wichhirte, the king of the Geertmen. But Kauch is likewise not good Frisian, and ought to be Kaap.

kâp 21, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Kauf, Kaufwert, Verkauf; ne. purchase (N.), sale;

ÜG.: lat. (vÐndere) L 4, L 2; Vw.: s. fisk-, for-a-, gol-d-, kamer-, lan-d, nÐ-st-,

niõ-r-, wÆ-n-, -brÐf, -brÐv-inge, -inge, -lan-d, -liæd-e, -man-n, -stÐ-d-ene; Hw.: s. kâpia;

vgl. got. *kaup, an. kaup, ae. céap, as. kôp*, ahd. kouf* (1);

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-K.pdf

Kauch/Kap - Kocht/koop ?

Ik koop / kocht --- I buy / bought

Jij koopt / kocht --- you buy / bought

Hij koopt / kocht --- he buys / bought

Wij kopen / kochten --- we buy / bought

Jullie kopen / kochten --- you buy / bought

Zij kopen / kochten --- they buy / bought

+++++++++++

EDIT:

Btw: 'kapen' is the Dutch word for piracy. Pirates were called 'kapers'.

Kapen = to rob.

And 'kaap' would be the first person singular...

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/kapen

I should add that 'kapers' were sort of pirates with a licence, lol. They only attacked ships of countries the Dutch were at war with ("Piet Hein").

And a bit of 'national pride' won't hurt in this thread (the lyrics you can find below the video on YouTube):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LgUFU5YDCE

(OK, the original song is from Flanders, but we are not going to nitpick now, eh?)

A translation of the lyrics (and I don't agree with the Cape of Good Hope translation, but who cares - well, Alewyn will, lol):

All who want to sail Cape Good Hope

Will be men with beards

"John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they have beards

John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they sail along"

All those who eat rancid biscuit

Will be men with beards

"John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they have beards

John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they sail along"

All those who smother fancy pipes

Will be men with beards

"John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they have beards

John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they sail along"

All of us who kill walrus

Will be men with beards

"John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they have beards

John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they sail along"

All those who not fear death and devil

Will be men with beards

.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

And a bit of 'national pride' won't hurt in this thread (the lyrics you can find below the video on YouTube):

Doesn't that song refer to Kaap de Goede Hoop (Cape of Good Hope; Capetown)?

[Abramelin]

Doesn't that song refer to Kaap de Goede Hoop (Cape of Good Hope; Capetown)?

LOL, I didn't see your post becuase I was busy editing.

Yes, that is what the translation says.

But 'te kaap'ren varen' also meant to go on a raid.

Anyway, I always loved this ballad.

In case you forgot, I have posted my mug on this site when I lived in South America, and I had a beard. Some of the people there (women, heh) smiled at me and called me 'Barba Negro' and never hesitated to pull at it. And my username on my own site is "Blackbeard" and the banner of the site is the Flying Dutchman.

And that was just the start of my beard, lol.

.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

OK, another video of a Dutch sea ballad (about the North Sea), and then I'm gone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BySRdzWf_A&feature=related

[Knul]

Misselja is a new challange !

With this Misselja - Marseille (Massalia) we find ourselves trapped in the same way as happened with Kerenak - Carnac. From the Kerenak case I learned, that one has to take litterally, what the author of the OLB says. The same happened with Aken - Aachen. If the author says it is an island, he means that it is an island. It is pretty sure, that Marseille was not an island. Ergo: Misselja cannot be Marseille. However, there is another island in the Mediterranean Sea, which can be identified as Misselja. That is Mallorca or Majorca, which is the largest island of the Balears, lying opposite the coast (kad) of Spain. The history of this island is pretty similar to that of Marseille, founded by the Greeks, conquered by the Romans and then conquered by the Carthagenians (Phonicians). The island of Mallorca had the same function on this side of the Pillars of Hercules as Cadiz on the other side and could be indicated as a volksplanting (colony) of the Frisians as well. Mallorca was the nucleus of the trade in the Western part of the Mediterranean. One should not forget, that shipping in the old times was not crossing the seas, but faring along the coast. After entering the Mediterranean Sea Mallorca was the first stop after the Street of Gibraltar v.v. when leaving the Mediterranean Sea Mallorca was the last stop before entering the street of Gibraltar. I haven't yet located the name Misselja. Maybe the Roman name of Mallorca was Messala (it was a Roman custom to put the name of a conquered land after one's name). The name Messala, which comes close to Misselja, is frequently used in Roman names, also as Messalina. As this Mallorca would be a Frisian volksplanting (colony) like Cadiz, it makes sense, that the case Misselja is discussed by the Eremother of Texland.

Strabo: Book III Chapter 5

1 (167)Of the islands which lie off Iberia, the two Pityussae, and the two Gymnesiae (which are also called the Baliarides),133 lie off the stretch of coast that is between Tarraco and Sucro, whereon Saguntum is situated; they are also out in the open sea, all of them, although the Pityussae have a greater inclination134 to the west than the Gymnesiae. p125 Now one of the Pityussae is called Ebusus, and it has a city of the same name; the circuit of the island is four hundred stadia, with the breadth and the length about equal. The other island, Ophiussa, which lies near Ebusus, is desert and much smaller. Of the Gymnesiae, the larger has two cities, Palma and Polentia, one of which, Polentia, is situated in the eastern part of the island, and the other in the western. The length of the island falls but little short of six hundred stadia, and the breadth but little short of two hundred although Artemidorus has stated the length and breadth at double these figures. The smaller of the two is about two hundred and seventy stadia distant from Polentia. Now although it falls far short of the larger island in size, it is in no respect inferior thereto in the excellence of its soil; for both are blessed with fertility, and also have good harbours, though the harbours are full of reefs at the entrances, so that there is need of vigilance on the part of those who sail in. And it is on account of the fertility of these regions that the inhabitants are peaceable, as is also the case with the people on the island of Ebusus. But merely because a few criminals among them had formed partnerships with the pirates of the high seas, they were all cast into disrepute, and an over-sea expedition was made against them by Metellus, surnamed Balearicus, who is the man that founded their cities. On account of the same fertility of their islands, however, the inhabitants are ever the object of plots, albeit they are peaceable; still they are spoken of as the best of slingers. And this art they have practised assiduously, so it is said, 168ever since the Phoenicians took possession p127of the islands. And the Phoenicians are also spoken of as the first to clothe the people there in tunics with a broad border; but the people used to go forth to their fights without a girdle on with only a goat-skin, wrapped round the arm,135 or with a javelin that had been hardened in the fire (though in rare cases it was also pointed with a small iron tip), and with three slings worn round the head,136 of black-tufted rush (that is, a species of rope-rush, out of which the ropes are woven; and Philetas, too, in his "Hermeneia"137 says, "Sorry his tunic befouled with dirt; and round about him his slender waist is entwined with a strip of black-tufted rush," meaning a man girdled with a rush-rope), of black-tufted rush, I say, or of hair or of sinews: the sling with the long straps for the shots at short range, and the medium sling for the medium shots. And their training in the use of slings used to be such, from childhood up, that they would not so much as give bread to their children unless they first hit it with the sling.138 This is why Metellus, when he was approaching the islands from the sea, stretched hides above the decks as a protection against the slings. And he brought thither as colonists three thousand of the Romans who were in Iberia.

2 In addition to the fruitfulness of the soil, there p129is also the fact that no injurious animal can easily be found in the Gymnesiae. For even the rabbits there, it is said, are not native, but the stock sprang from a male and female brought over by some person from the opposite mainlind; and this stock was, for a fact, so numerous at first, that they even overturned houses and trees by burrowing beneath them, and that, as I have said,139 the people were forced to have recourse to the Romans. At present, however, the ease with which the rabbits are caught prevents the pest from prevailing; indeed, the landholders reap profitable crops from the soil. Now these islands are this side of what are called the Pillars of Heracles.

3 Close to the Pillars there are two isles, one of which they call Hera's Island; moreover, there are some who call also these isles the Pillars.140 Gades, however, is outside the Pillars. Concerning Gades I have said only thus much, that it is about seven hundred and fifty stadia distant from Calpe141 (that is, it is situated near the outlet of the Baetis), but there is more to be said about it than the others. For example, here live the men who fit out the most and largest merchant-vessels, both for Our Sea and the outer sea, although, in the first place, it is no large island they live in, and secondly, they do not occupy much of the continent opposite the island, and, thirdly, are not well-off in the p131possession of other islands; indeed, they live mostly on the sea, though a mere few keep at home or else while away their time at Rome. 169In population, however, Gades does not fall short, it would seem, of any of the cities except Rome; at any rate I have heard that in one of the censuses of our own time there were five hundred men assessed as Gaditanian Knights a number not equalled even in the case of the Italian cities except Patavium.142 But though the Gaditanians are so numerous, they occupy an island not much larger than a hundred stadia in length, and in places merely a stadium in breadth. As for their city, the one they lived in at first was very small indeed, but Balbus of Gades, who gained the honour of a triumph,143 founded another for them, which they call "Nea";144 and the city which is composed of the two they call "Didyme,"145 although it is not more than twenty stadia in circuit, and even at that not crowded. For only a few stay at home in the city, because in general they are all at sea, though some live on the continent opposite the island, and also, in particular, on account of its natural advantages, on the islet that lies off Gades;146 and because they take delight in its geographical position they have made the island a rival city, as it were, to Didyme.145 Only a few, however, comparatively speaking, live either on the islet or in the harbour-town147 which was constructed for them by Balbus on the opposite coast of the mainland. The city of Gades is situated on the westerly parts of the island; and next to it, at the extremity of p133the island and near the islet, is the temple of Cronus; but the temple of Heracles is situated on the other side, facing towards the east, just where the island runs, it so happens, most closely to the mainland, thus leaving a strait of only about a stadium in width.148 And they say that the temple is twelve miles149 distant from the city, thus making the number of the miles equal to that of the Labours;150 yet the distance is greater than that and amounts to almost as much as the length of the island; and the length of the island is that from the west to the east.151. http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Strabo/3E*.html

Edited November 1, 2011 by Knul

[Abramelin]

Mallorca or Majorca doesn't sound like Massilia/Misselia at all.

I just got back from helping my ex moving her neighbours's house, but after an hour of screaming, shouting and yelling (to her present victim = boyfriend) I had more than enough of it.

Waxilia/Wassilia was an island at the northern border of the Frisian Middle Sea.

The French took it (the Gauls/Golar) during the time of Napoleon.

And the Dutch and English fought a great battle at that island.

I know Puzz could make Wassilia into Massalia, so why can't you?

.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Abramelin

[Knul]

Is the OLB suggesting the Chauci were buyers/sellers? Traders or something?

Friso hêde hir-ne ôther wif nimth, thju toghater fon Wil-frèthe, bi sin lêve was-er vrste Grêva to Staveren wêst. Thêr bi hêder twên svna wnnen aend twa toghatera. Thrvch sin bilêid is Kornêlja sin jongste toghater mith min brother mant. Kornêlja is wan Fryas and mot Kornhêlja skrêven wrde. Wêmod sin aldeste heth er an Kavch bonden. Kavch thêr âk bi him to skole gvng is thi svnv fon Wichhirte thene Gêrtmanna kaening. Men Kavch is âk wan Fryas aend mot Kâp wêsa.

Friso had taken here another wife, a daughter of Wilfrêthe, who in his lifetime had been chief count of Staveren. By her he had two sons and two daughters. By his wish Kornelia, his youngest daughter, was married to my brother. Kornelia is not good Frisian; her name ought to be written Korn-helia. Weemoed, his eldest daughter, he married to Kauch. Kauch, who went to school to him, is the son of Wichhirte, the king of the Geertmen. But Kauch is likewise not good Frisian, and ought to be Kaap.

kâp 21, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Kauf, Kaufwert, Verkauf; ne. purchase (N.), sale;

ÜG.: lat. (vÐndere) L 4, L 2; Vw.: s. fisk-, for-a-, gol-d-, kamer-, lan-d, nÐ-st-,

niõ-r-, wÆ-n-, -brÐf, -brÐv-inge, -inge, -lan-d, -liæd-e, -man-n, -stÐ-d-ene; Hw.: s. kâpia;

vgl. got. *kaup, an. kaup, ae. céap, as. kôp*, ahd. kouf* (1);

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-K.pdf

Kauch/Kap - Kocht/koop ?

Ik koop / kocht --- I buy / bought

Jij koopt / kocht --- you buy / bought

Hij koopt / kocht --- he buys / bought

Wij kopen / kochten --- we buy / bought

Jullie kopen / kochten --- you buy / bought

Zij kopen / kochten --- they buy / bought

+++++++++++

EDIT:

Btw: 'kapen' is the Dutch word for piracy. Pirates were called 'kapers'.

Kapen = to rob.

And 'kaap' would be the first person singular...

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/kapen

I should add that 'kapers' were sort of pirates with a licence, lol. They only attacked ships of countries the Dutch were at war with ("Piet Hein").

And a bit of 'national pride' won't hurt in this thread (the lyrics you can find below the video on YouTube):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LgUFU5YDCE

(OK, the original song is from Flanders, but we are not going to nitpick now, eh?)

A translation of the lyrics (and I don't agree with the Cape of Good Hope translation, but who cares - well, Alewyn will, lol):

All who want to sail Cape Good Hope

Will be men with beards

"John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they have beards

John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they sail along"

All those who eat rancid biscuit

Will be men with beards

"John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they have beards

John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they sail along"

All those who smother fancy pipes

Will be men with beards

"John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they have beards

John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they sail along"

All of us who kill walrus

Will be men with beards

"John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they have beards

John, Pete, Joris and Corneel

They have beards, they sail along"

All those who not fear death and devil

Will be men with beards

.

G.J. Van der Meij (Kanttekeningen) p. 105 refers to Grimm's Geschichte der Deutsche Sprache (II, p. 675). There we find Jacob Grimm and J.H. Halbertsma discussing (many pages) on the Chauci (Kauchen), which Grimm takes for Frisians between Eems and Weser. As far as I can see, they did not find, where the name Chauci (Kauchen) comes from. According to Grimm the au comes from Gothic. They don't reach a conclusion. au-ao-o and k-ch can be explained, but ch-p is less obvious. The OLB does not make clear, why kauch is a misspelling for kaap. I don't think the Chauci (Kauchen) were known as kapers-pirates.

[Abramelin]

G.J. Van der Meij (Kanttekeningen) p. 105 refers to Grimm's Geschichte der Deutsche Sprache (II, p. 675). There we find Jacob Grimm and J.H. Halbertsma discussing (many pages) on the Chauci (Kauchen), which Grimm takes for Frisians between Eems and Weser. As far as I can see, they did not find, where the name Chauci (Kauchen) comes from. According to Grimm the au comes from Gothic. They don't reach a conclusion. au-ao-o and k-ch can be explained, but ch-p is less obvious. The OLB does not make clear, why kauch is a misspelling for kaap. I don't think the Chauci (Kauchen) were known as kapers-pirates.

I posted the sources where I got it from, that the Chauci became raiders during the first centuries AD.

Try the search tool for this thread, and enter "Chauci" and my username.

[Otharus]

Misselja is a new challange !

... If the author says it is an island, he means that it is an island. It is pretty sure, that Marseille was not an island. Ergo: Misselja cannot be Marseille. However, there is another island in the Mediterranean Sea, which can be identified as Misselja. That is Mallorca or Majorca, which is the largest island of the Balears, lying opposite the coast (kad) of Spain. The history of this island is pretty similar to that of Marseille, founded by the Greeks, conquered by the Romans and then conquered by the Carthagenians (Phonicians). The island of Mallorca had the same function on this side of the Pillars of Hercules as Cadiz on the other side and could be indicated as a volksplanting (colony) of the Frisians as well. Mallorca was the nucleus of the trade in the Western part of the Mediterranean. One should not forget, that shipping in the old times was not crossing the seas, but faring along the coast. After entering the Mediterranean Sea Mallorca was the first stop after the Street of Gibraltar v.v. when leaving the Mediterranean Sea Mallorca was the last stop before entering the street of Gibraltar. I haven't yet located the name Misselja. Maybe the Roman name of Mallorca was Messala (it was a Roman custom to put the name of a conquered land after one's name). The name Messala, which comes close to Misselja, is frequently used in Roman names, also as Messalina. As this Mallorca would be a Frisian volksplanting (colony) like Cadiz, it makes sense, that the case Misselja is discussed by the Eremother of Texland.

Most interesting!

You may very well be right.

It makes sense to me.

Mallorca or Majorca doesn't sound like Massilia/Misselia at all.

That does not mean that OLB's "MIS-SELLJA" can't refer to what is now Mallorca.

Noord-Holland doesn't sound like West-Flyland...

Names change and sometimes move.

[Abramelin]

Read this post of mine, Menno:

The next will be one of my long and winding posts, but I do hope you can bear with me.

In former pages I have wondered why not the tiniest shred of info about anything Ireland shows up in the OLB (Menapians (Belgium/south-west Netherlands)/ Manapii (Ireland), Tuathe De Danann/Lochlan/N/W German lowlands, Frisian goddess "Dae Hludana").

It's my idea that many of the tribes living at the North Sea coast during the times of Tacitus, Pliny and Ptolemy were very closely related (Ingeavones), both in language as in customs and appearance.

Well, east of the Frisians lived the Chauci. Some time ago I quoted a text from Tacitus, and his description of the Chauci is so close to the description of the Frisians/Fryans of the OLB, that something is not 'right' here...

Who were these Chauci, and did they have any connection with Ireland? You got it: they very probably had.

==

The Chauci were a populous Germanic tribe that inhabited the extreme northwestern shore of Germany between Frisia in the west and the Elbe estuary in the east. Their name derives from Proto-Germanic *xabukaz, "hawk" ( which survives not only as the English "hawk" (from the Old English "hafoc") but also in other Germanic languages such as German where it survives as "habicht"[1]) or in Dutch as "havik".

The Chauci, like the Frisii, inhabited terpen, artificial mounds raised above the large floodplains of their region, which served to protect their farms from the floods of the North Sea. Their way of life was unfamiliar to the Romans, who found it mystifying. A lively, first hand account is provided by Pliny the Elder, who writes that the Chauci lived by fishing and hunting. Archeological evidence, however, shows that this is not entirely accurate, since the Chauci also raised cattle and supported cavalry troops.

The Chauci, according to Tacitus, were highly respected among Germanic tribes. He also describes them as peaceful, calm, and levelheaded, despite the reports in his Annales of piracy.

History

The political position of the Chauci, early in the 1st century AD, was essentially a pro-Roman one. For instance, they provided auxiliaries during the second campaign of Germanicus against the Cherusci. This is evidenced not just by Tacitus, but also by finds of typical equestrian paraphernalia near the Praetorium on the Kops plateau near Oppidum Batavorum (Nijmegen), which served as the Roman headquarters in Germania Inferior.

The first known map of Ireland, made by the Greek geographer Ptolemy, shows a people called the Cauci living in the eastern part of Ireland during the first or second century AD. Identification with the Chauci has long been argued but is not universally accepted.

In 41 AD the third missing eagle of the legions lost in the defeat of Varus in 9 AD was recovered from the Chauci by Publius Gabinius.

In 47 the Chauci, with the Frisii, raided Germania Inferior, led by Gannascus, a Canninefat and deserter from the legions. They used small boats to raid the coast of Gaul (Belgica) but were defeated by Gnaeus Domitius Corbulo. Corbulo in turn started plotting against Gannascus, who was ultimately killed. But this led to great unrest amongst the Chauci and the situation was about to escalate when Corbulo was ordered by Claudius to retreat behind the Rhine River, which was subsequently declared the border of the Roman Empire.

http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/08/ajb/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Chauci.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauci

==

What is also interesting about their name name is the -ch- in the beginning.

It's like the Frisian/English -ch- (church/tsjerk). Other people would have called them Cauci/Kauki/Hauki.

"The Chauci were a populous Germanic tribe that inhabited the extreme northwestern shore of Germany between Frisia in the west and the Elbe estuary in the east. Their name derives from Proto-Germanic *xabukaz, "hawk" ( which survives not only as the English "hawk" (from the Old English "hafoc") bit also in other Germanic languages such as German where it survives as "habicht"[1]) or in Dutch as "havik"."

Maybe the -u- in Chauci should be a -v-? >> Chavci/Chavki/Havki

On the other hand, the modern Frisian word for hawk is 'hauk'

==

The Chauci (German: Chauken, and identical or similar in other regional modern languages) were an ancient Germanic tribe living in the low-lying region between the Rivers Ems and Elbe, on both sides of the Weser and ranging as far inland as the upper Weser. Along the coast they lived on artificial hills called terpen, built high enough to remain dry during the highest tide. A dense population of Chauci lived further inland, and they are presumed to have lived in a manner similar to the lives of the other Germanic peoples of the region.

Their ultimate origins are not well understood. In the Germanic pre-Migration Period (i.e., before c. 300 AD) the Chauci and the related Frisians, Saxons, and Angles inhabited the Continental European coast from the Zuyder Zee to south Jutland.[1] All of these peoples shared a common material culture, and so cannot be defined archaeologically.[2] The Chauci originally centered on the Weser and Elbe, but in c. AD 58 they expanded westward to the River Ems by expelling the neighboring Ampsivarii,[3][4] whereby they gained a border with the Frisians to the west. The Romans referred to the Chauci living between the Weser and Elbe as the 'Greater Chauci' and those living between the Ems and Weser as the 'Lesser Chauci'.[5]

The Chauci entered the historical record in descriptions of them by classical Roman sources late in the 1st century BC in the context of Roman military campaigns and sea raiding. For the next 200 years the Chauci provided Roman auxiliaries through treaty obligations, but they also appear in their own right in concert with other Germanic tribes, opposing the Romans. Accounts of wars therefore mention the Chauci on both sides of the conflict, though the actions of troops under treaty obligation were separate from the policies of the tribe.

The Chauci lost their separate identity in the 3rd century when they merged with the Saxons,[6] after which time they were considered to be Saxons. The circumstances of the merger are an unsettled issue of scholarly research.

Society and Life

The Germans of the region were not strongly hierarchical. This had been noted by Tacitus, for example when he mentioned the names of two kings of the 1st century Frisians and added that they were kings "as far as the Germans are under kings".[7] Haywood (Dark Age Naval Power, 1999) says the Chauci were originally neither highly centralised nor highly stratified, though they became more so after 100 AD.[8] Yorke (The Conversion of Britain c.600800, 2006), speaking of the 5th century, describes the 'Continental Saxons' (which then included the Chauci) as having powerful local families and a dominant military leader.[9]

Writing in AD 79, Pliny the Elder said that the Germanic tribes were members of separate groups of people, suggesting a distinction among them. He said that the Chauci, Cimbri and Teutonithe people from the River Ems through Jutland and for some distance inlandwere members of a group called Ingaevones (a "Cimbri" people were also given as members of a different group, and this is likely a different people).[10]

Tacitus, writing in AD 98, described the inland, non-coastal Chauci homeland as immense, densely populated, and well-stocked with horses. He was effusive in his praise of their character as a people, saying that they were the noblest of the Germans, preferring justice to violence, being neither aggressive nor predatory, but militarily capable and always prepared for war if the need arose.[11]

Pliny (AD 2379) had visited the coastal region and described the Chauci who lived there. He said that they were "wretched natives" living on a barren coast in small cottages (or huts) on hilltops, or on mounds of turf built high enough to stay dry during the highest tide (i.e., terpen). They fished for food, and unlike their neighbors (i.e., those living inland, away from the coast) they had no cattle, and had nothing to drink except rainwater caught in ditches. They used a type of dried mud (i.e., "surface peat") as fuel for cooking and heating. He also mentioned their spirit of independence, saying that even though they had nothing of value, they would deeply resent any attempt to conquer them.

Sea raiding

The Chauci were one of the most prominent early Germanic sea raiders.[25] They are probable participants in the Germanic flotilla that was destroyed by Drusus in 12 BC. They were raiding the coasts of Roman Belgica in AD 41,[26] long before they participated in further raids of the same coasts under Gannascus in AD 47. It is likely that their raiding was endemic over the years, as the few surviving accounts probably do not reflect all occurrences. Tacitus describes the Chauci as 'peaceful' in his Germania (AD 98), but this is in a passage describing the non-coastal, inland Chauci,[27] whereas sea raiders are necessarily a coastal people.

By the late 2nd century Chauci raiding was ongoing and more serious than before, continuing in the North Sea Channel until their last recorded raids c. 170175.[28] While there are no historical sources to inform us one way or the other, it is likely that the Chauci continued their raiding until they were replaced by Frankish and Saxon raiders in the 3rd century.[29]

There is archaeological evidence of destruction by raiders between 170200, ranging along the Continental coast down to the Bay of Biscay, to northwest Belgica (e.g., fire destruction at Amiens, Thérouanne, Vendeuil-Caply, Beauvais, Bavai, Tournai and Arras), to coastal Britain (e.g., fire destruction at the eastern Essex sites of Chelmsford, Billericay, Gestingthorpe, Braintree, Wickford, Kelvedon, Great Chesterford and Harlow). The perpetrators are unknown, but Chauci raiders are among the prime suspects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauci

===

During this conflict, a Germanic pirate leader named Gannascus attacked Germania Inferior. He was a Cananefate by birth, but commanded a band of Chauci, who lived on the shores of the Wadden Sea in what is now the Dutch province of Groningen and German Ostfriesland.

http://www.livius.org/do-dz/domitius/corbulo.html

http://www.livius.org/caa-can/cananefates/cananefates.html

http://www.ijpelaan.nl/Archief/Kennemerland/Cann-Archeologisch.html

===

OK, now about the Irish Cauci:

The Cauci were a people of early Ireland, uniquely documented in Ptolemy's 2nd-century Geography, which locates them roughly in the region of modern County Dublin and County Wicklow.[1] From the early 19th century, comparative linguists, notably Lorenz Diefenbach, identified the Cauci with the Germanic Chauci of the Low Countries and north-western Germany, a parallel already drawn by earlier antiquarian scholarship.[2] Proponents of this view also pointed to the fact that the Manapii, who in Ptolemy's map border the Cauci to the south, likewise bear a name that is almost identical to that of another continental tribe, the Belgic Menapii in north-eastern Gaul. This correspondence appeared to testify to population movements between the two regions. The linguistic aspect of this hypothesis was most recently (1917) developed by Julius Pokorny,[3] although the Cauci-Chauci association is not universally accepted.[4] This early scholarship also drew attention to apparent parallels among Celtic or Celticized peoples of the Iberian peninsula, specifically a leader of the Lusitani named Kaukainos , and a city called Kauka (?a??a) (modern Coca), inhabited by Kaukaioi, among the Vaccaei, a prominent Celtiberian people.[5] With regard to possible descendants of the Irish Cauci, Pokorny and Ó Briain[6] respectively favoured the obscure medieval septs of Uí Cuaich and Cuachraige, though in neither case has a connection been demonstrated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauci

==

But it is also said the Germanic Chauci were/became sea raiders, all the way to the Bay of Biscay, so the Celt-Iberian Kaukaioi may have been no one else but these Chauci.

===

Kildare

This county, in the time of Ptolemy, was inhabited by the Coriundi, whose territory lay to the west of the rivers Liffey and Slaney, being bounded on the north and west by the Boyne and Barrow, and having the tribes of the Cauci and Menapii on the east, the Eblani on the north, and the Brigantes on the south. It formed part of the district of Caellan, or Galen, which included the greater part of the present county, together with part of those of Wicklow and Carlow; the county of Kildare portion being bounded on the east by the Wicklow mountains, on the south and west by the Barrow, and on the north by the Liffey and the bog of Allen. This latter name also signifies the woody country, by much the greater part having been an extensive forest, many traces of which are still discernible in the bogs. The native chieftains of the district were the heads of the family of Hy Caellan, or McKelly, whose principal residence was at Rath-Ardscull, near Athy. The last aboriginal owner of this fortress, Gicrode Crone McKelly, defended it against the English during his life. After his decease the country was possessed by the Fitzgeralds, FitzHenrys and Keatings. The territory of the O'Tothils or O'Tooles, who ruled over the southern part of the county of Wicklow, extended into this county, Tristledermot, or Castledermot, being one of their places of residence.

Kilkenny

According to Ptolemy, this county was originally inhabited by the Brigantes and the Caucoi, and it afterwards formed part of the kingdom of Ossory. The name Uisraigagh, modernized into Ossory, is supposed to be expressive of its local situation, being compounded of the Gaelic words uisge, "water," and rioghachd, "kingdom," as lying between the rivers. The portion between the Nore and Barrow is sometimes excluded from the kingdom of Ossory, and was anciently styled Hy Creoghain Gabhran; the southern part of the county was sometimes called Comor na tri uisge, "the high district of the three waters." The countries of Ely O'Carroll and Hy Carthin comprised some of the north-western portion of this county. This kingdom was sometimes tributary to Leinster, and sometimes to Munster. After the arrival of the English, it formed one of the counties into which King John divided the portion of the island that acknowledged his sovereignty. At the commencement of the reign of King James I., it was chiefly occupied by the Graces, the O'Brenans, the Wandefords, the Butlers, the O'Sheas, the Rooths, the Harpurs, the Walshes of the mountains, and the Shortals.

Waterford

The earliest inhabitants of this portion of the island were a tribe designated by Ptolemy Menapii, who occupied also the present county of Wexford.

Wexford

The whole or the greater portion of the county was inhabited in the time of Ptolemy by the Menapii, whose territory bordered on the Modonus, now called the river Slaney, on the bank of which stood their chief town, Menapia, supposed to have occupied the site of the present town of Wexford. They are considered to have derived their origin from the Menapii of Belgic Gaul, perhaps through the Belgae of Britain, and to have been the race styled by Irish annalists Fir-bolgs, i.e. Viri Belgici, or Belgians.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/irehstry.htm

===

Cauca/Coca"

The Romans founded the city of Cauca, as it is known in classical texts, on the site. It became a provincial city during the 2nd century A.D.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca,_Segovia

==

So it were the Romans who founded the city??? Would that mean, despite what was earlier suggested, that the Irish Cauci had nothing to do with these Celt-Iberian Kaukaoi?

==

The Vaccaei were probably largely of Celtic descent.[2] Their name may be derived from the Celtic word vacos meaning a slayer since they were celebrated fighters;and perhaps related,like the celtiberian Belli to the Belgians, Bellovaci that entered the Peninsula and settled the main river high plains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccaei

===========================================

To give something of summary (including former posts 5996/7/8 on page 400):

The Menapians must have been closely related to the Frisians, and at a certain time they inhabited an area from Calais (France) up to Leiden (Netherlands). They spoke a language closely related to Old Frisian. They probably settled in east Ireland, and lived there as neighbours of the Cauci who may have come from coastal Germany.

The Chauci, neighbours of the Frisians and (often) close allies, had all the characteristics (according to Tacitus and others) of the OLB Fryans/Frisians. They were both known as very civilized, peacefull... and as sea raiders.

Both the Menapii and Chaucii must have been very influential tribes, the Chaucii even being dominant at sea, and both connected with Ireland.

Where are these Menapii and Chaucii in the OLB? Where is Ireland in the OLB?

.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Most interesting!

You may very well be right.

It makes sense to me.

That does not mean that OLB's "MIS-SELLJA" can't refer to what is now Mallorca.

Noord-Holland doesn't sound like West-Flyland...

Names change and sometimes move.

Marseilles/Massalia still is not an island, and it never was.

Waxilia/Wassilia was an island at the northern border of the Frisian Middle Sea.

The French (Gauls/Golar) took it during Napoleon's reign.

THAT makes sense to ME.

[Otharus]

Marseilles/Massalia still is not an island, and it never was.

That is why I agree with Knul that it can't be OLB's MIS-SELLJA.

But it's possible that Massalia (the later Marseilles) was named after the earlier (and more important) island Missellia (the later Mallorca).

[Otharus]

In this thread we have seen that Oldfrisian offers countless possible explanations for toponyms, mythological names and ancient tribes.

Some of these explanations totally make sense to all of us, others sound crazy or silly to some.

Is there any other language that offers so many possible etymologies?

Edited November 1, 2011 by Otharus

[cormac mac airt]

That is why I agree with Knul that it can't be OLB's MIS-SELLJA.

But it's possible that Massalia (the later Marseilles) was named after the earlier (and more important) island Missellia (the later Mallorca).

Even if one substitutes Mallorca for Marseilles, they still would have to show archaeological and/or genetic evidence for a connection between Mallorca and anything dealing with the OLB. So the question then becomes: "Where's the evidence?

cormac

[Abramelin]

That is why I agree with Knul that it can't be OLB's MIS-SELLJA.

But it's possible that Massalia (the later Marseilles) was named after the earlier (and more important) island Missellia (the later Mallorca).

I just picked out an ancient (and no longer existing) Frisian island with a very similar name at the northern border of the OLB (Frisian, and also no longer existent) Middle Sea.

Mis-sellia is being explained (or 'suggested') to have been a 'bad sell', or 'bad bargain', what's the English word for that?

I think that island in the present Wadden Sea comes very close.

[Abramelin]

Even if one substitutes Mallorca for Marseilles, they still would have to show archaeological and/or genetic evidence for a connection between Mallorca and anything dealing with the OLB. So the question then becomes: "Where's the evidence?

cormac

No way Mallorca could be a substitute for Marseilles, come on.

It is not near the coast of Marseilles, it is not in the north of the Med.

Period.

It's in the WEST of the Med.

Cormac, you know anything about the Neolithic history of those tiny islands off the coast of Marseiiles?

[Knul]

If you look at the Peutinger map, you can clearly see the route of trade ships from Kadik via the Street of Gibraltar to the Balearen (largest island Mallorca): s. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/TabulaPeutingeriana.jpg.

[Abramelin]

If you look at the Peutinger map, you can clearly see the route of trade ships from Kadik via the Street of Gibraltar to the Balearen (largest island Mallorca): s. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/TabulaPeutingeriana.jpg.

I swear to anything holy: I had a map depicting the (sea) route of the Romans from Katwijk to the Middle Sea.

It's from the site of the guy who published a document about the Frisians being descendents of the Pharismanes.

Otharus knows about thiss because he asked me to get it from the "Koninklijke Bibliotheek" (= Royal Library).

Give me a minute, ok? (or an hour because of the state I am in).

++++++

EDDIT:

There: http://home.zonnet.nl/heinsius6/Kopie%20van%20romeinen.htm

MMy ex is here, and giving me hell.

I just truyy to convince her I am talking abiout history.

I feel like an ass pOsting this bull, but that is the situatioon I am in, and that is hwhy my posts

.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

No way Mallorca could be a substitute for Marseilles, come on.

It is not near the coast of Marseilles, it is not in the north of the Med.

Period.

It's in the WEST of the Med.

Cormac, you know anything about the Neolithic history of those tiny islands off the coast of Marseiiles?

One of the islands has evidence of Neolithic activity.

Maïre island

The Maïre Island is located in the extreme south of the Bay of Marseille opposite Cap Croisette. The island has sharp limestone peaks that stand out against the sky. Despite being currently uninhabited archaeological excavations in 1903 showed the island was inhabited during the Neolithic Age.

http://www.marseille-tourisme.com/en/discover-marseille/the-islands/

Sounds a bit like mistake. mis -

The mother’s advice was asked, and she wished to see them at some distance, so she saw no harm in it; but as we afterwards saw what a mistake we had made, we called the island Missellia (Marseilles). wi thaet êland Missellja hêten.

In the OLB text, seems the word mistake is misdên.

But anyway I found this word in the Frisian Dict.

mi-s-jeld-a 1 und häufiger?, afries., st. V. (3b): nhd. nicht nach Gebühr bezahlen;

ne. pay (V.) insufficiently; E.: s. mi-s-, jeld-a (2); L.: Hh 72b

It had been a mistake, they did insufficiently from it. It was an insufficient sell - they got nothing from it...

Even the Greek name imo - might have to do with feast - because Proctis had a big feast there..

mis-s-e 21, mis-s-a (2), afries., st. F. (æ): nhd. Messe (F.) (1), kirchliches Fest; ne.

mass (N.), feast (N.); Vw.: s. liõch-t-, lÆk-, sêl-, ze-r-k-; Hw.: vgl. an. messa (1), ae.

mÏsse, as. missa*, ahd. missa* (1); Q.: S, B, W, R, H; I.: Lw. lat. missa; E.: s. lat.

[The Puzzler]

Lol, you must have felt sleepy, for I hope you'll see tomorrow what I underlined.

(and better not click on 'Ache' here http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ea , lol)

Maybe another clue to where the Aken we talked about earlier is located?

The flood in China was evil...?

Achaea. Might have a sound connection.

ache:

English[edit] Alternative formsake (obsolete)

[edit] Etymology 1From Middle English aken (v), and ache (noun), from Old English acan (v) (from Proto-Germanic *akanan (“to be bad, be evil”)) and æċe (noun) (from Proto-Germanic *akiz), both from Proto-Indo-European *ag- (“sin, crime”). Cognate with Low German aken, äken (“to hurt, ache”), North Frisian akelig, æklig (“terrible, miserable, sharp, intense”), West Frisian aaklik (“nasty, horrible, dismal, dreary”), Dutch akelig (“nasty, horrible”). The noun was originally pronounced as spelled--with a palatized ch sound (compare batch < bake); and the verb was originally strong, conjugating for tense like take (eg. I ake, I oke, I have aken ), but gradually becoming weak during Middle English. Historically the verb was spelled ake, and the noun as ache (--Shak.). Confusion arose when Dr Johnson mistakingly cited derivation from Ancient Greek ἄχος (áchos, “pain”), due to the similarites in form and meaning.

You really gotta wonder though, why in ancient Greek it's also achos=pain

That Akenhaten was thought to be pretty bad, evil even, considering they scrubbed him from their history...

From sin, crime. The Flood.

My aken head...

[cormac mac airt]

No way Mallorca could be a substitute for Marseilles, come on.

It is not near the coast of Marseilles, it is not in the north of the Med.

Period.

It's in the WEST of the Med.

Cormac, you know anything about the Neolithic history of those tiny islands off the coast of Marseiiles?

Wasn't my idea Abe, I was just saying that even if one makes the substitition then they STILL have to produce supporting evidence. But there is none.

As to the latter, there's nothing that would be relevant to the OLB's claims nor claims made in connection to it, AFAIK.

cormac

[The Puzzler]

This is from ache page.

Alternative formsǣ

[edit] EtymologyFrom Proto-Germanic *ahwō (“waters, river”) from Proto-Indo-European *akʷā- (“water”). Akin to Old Frisian ā, ē, Old Saxon aha, Old High German aha, awa, Gothic (ahwa) "river, waters". Also related to Icelandic á, Old English īeg "island".

[edit] Nounēa f.

1.water

2.running water, river, stream

This is island, as you say, it's not exactly the same as eland, which could be eiland or eland. because the ei in that is not ea, as above is connected too.

ea had no word for water in Frisian - it meant 'ever' remember I said.

I'd say the eland and I don't know how to put all the little dots and dashes above but from what I see, there is many variations of each one - but only eland as eiland - ei NOT ea works in Frisian.

This is where I'm seeing the connections. We are meant to think that their is like a germanic one or a Greek one but the similarity in Greek ache to Germanic is too close as noted by Dr Johnson.

It would be much easier if we could acknowledge that a Germanic language is actually the backbone of Greek and Roman.

The you look, the more you find. Ea as water and then that is the Sumerian God of water, give me a break...but that's not Frisian, I don't think Gothic is quite the same...

Who were those giants on those plains, who were the Guti and why are they connected with the Guti/Goths, they didn't know anything about Marduk and were a warrior people who have apparently proto-Norse names..Inkishush - my favourite Tirigan, who reigned for 40 days...

Those Guti were quite a pain - where did they go after Tirigan, just disappear off the face of the Earth...or maybe they became the Achaeans.

[The Puzzler]

Before we move on to the Chauci or Kauch and your drunken sailor songs... can we please stick to and try and come to some sort of workings out on Missellja.

This is why these posts goes around and around.

You think it's in Friesland

Otharus thinks Majorca could be a possibility

Knul thinks it might be Majorca

I still think it is Marseilles.

Just to re-iterate.

Then you have ei:

NOTE landscape by water, terrain - in water = island This is not ea which equals water, stream, running water, river etc. ea is not in Frisian as water, it means ever. Firstly I think Frisian could therefore transfer the word eland as used in the OLB in whatever form it might take, not one stagnant current form of island. Landscape by water, terrain in water.

I can see the Old Port of Marseilles in this description. I think it means Miselja = insufficient.

--------

Aue- ei: eland/eiland

German[edit] PronunciationIPA: /aʊ̯ə/

[edit] Etymology 1From Middle High German ouwe (“terrain, landscape by water, in water, island”), from Old High German ouwa, from Proto-Germanic *awjō. Compare with old Frisian ei, Swedish ö, Danish ø, old Norse ey; also related to the modern German suffix -ach.

[edit] NounAue f.

1.A flat, wooded meadow by a river

[edit] SynonymsSee also Wikisaurus:Au

[edit] Etymology 2From Old High German ouwi, from Proto-Germanic *awiz, from Proto-Indo-European *h₂ówis. Cognate with Dutch ooi, English ewe, Latin ovis, Ancient Greek ὄϊς, Sanskrit अवि (ávi).

[edit] Noun Aue f.

1.ewe (female sheep)

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Aue

I think this could even be the word oasis - wooded meadow by a river. owis

This word goes straight to sheep, a female sheep, the ewe. The name Rachel means ewe, think Biblical.

See this confusion:

The name "Fårö" (in Gutnish "Faroy") is derived from the words "ö", meaning island, and "får-", which is a word associated with travel like in the Swedish word "färled" (fairway). The word Fårö probably means the island you have to travel to or the traveler's island. Mainland Swedes might misinterpret the name Fårö to be derived from får, the Swedish word for sheep, due to the many sheep on the island. However, the Gutnish word for sheep is "lamm" (similar to the Swedish word "lamm", meaning "lamb").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A5r%C3%B6

fair+o fair+ (“terrain, landscape by water, in water, island”), fair/far + terrain in the water

Far means sheep in Swedish but so does o.... sheep island but really far away island.

The o in Swedish is equal to the ei in Frisian - so it makes sense - sheep island

The Gurtnish word for sheep is lamb. Lamm

At the Oasis of Amun he became a ram God - Amun is the island, the sheep, the lamb or the ram and the Faro, not to mention Proteus, Poseidon's chief seal hunter on his lighthouse island. Crazy.

The Gotlandic flag displays the Gotlandic coat of arms, white on red ground, known from the 13th century in the shape of the seal of the Gutnish Republic with the proud ram. It reads: "Gutenses signo xpistus signatur in agno". This can be translated as follows: "I (the ram) am the sign of the Gutes. The lamb symbolizes Christ".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotland

Firstly note agno as Ram - that was in ache as pain/sin/crime - ag - From Middle English aken (v), and ache (noun), from Old English acan (v) (from Proto-Germanic *akanan (“to be bad, be evil”)) and æċe (noun) (from Proto-Germanic *akiz), both from Proto-Indo-European *ag- (“sin, crime”).

The lamb symbolises Christ, that's mighty Christian of the Goths.

Edited November 2, 2011 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Anyone find where Egeria came from yet?

Edited November 2, 2011 by The Puzzler