[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[The Puzzler]

Yeah, PROBABLY.

Now a source, please.

++

I read your posts, and all I read is "probably this, and probably that".

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I haven't read anything from you except saying it's a recent term used for Slavic vampires, but you refuse to look beyond that as the real meaning of vampire/vampyr - imo, obviously coming from the leech, in use as a blood sucker since Ancient Greece.

That pyr means worm is too coincidental.

But whatever.

[Otharus]

I actually think the word for leech could have been a vampyr first, then that got transferred into Hungarian/Romanian undead corpses who later sucked blood and became human 'vampires'. The original meaning for the blood-letting leech was lost on human undead corpses.

exactly

[Otharus]

He just quoted the definition again above and it's right there in black and white, pierwurm.

It's common practice in Dutch and Flemmish to create a word out of two (almost) synonyms.

[Abramelin]

I haven't read anything from you except saying it's a recent term used for Slavic vampires, but you refuse to look beyond that as the real meaning of vampire/vampyr - imo, obviously coming from the leech, in use as a blood sucker since Ancient Greece.

That pyr means worm is too coincidental.

But whatever.

Your Flanders' "pier" is from the late Middle Ages:

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/pier1

And if the ancient Greeks (you know, people of mixed "Fryan" blood) practiced blood-letting using leeches, than they sure must have had a word for it resembling "vampire".

They hadn't.

+++

PIER is NOT a Frisian or even Old Frisian word for worm.

The Old Frisian word is WERM.

If not, then show us an older source.

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Edited December 14, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

exactly

Then show us an ancient source.

I have a better idea: let's forget about those fkg leeches and discuss "HLUDANA/LYDA".

[The Puzzler]

Your Flanders' "pier" is from the late Middle Ages:

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/pier1

And if the ancient Greeks (you know, people of mixed "Fryan" blood) practiced blood-letting using leeches, than they sure must have had a word for it resembling "vampire".

They hadn't.

+++

PIER is NOT a Frisian or even Old Frisian word for worm.

The Old Frisian word is WERM.

If not, then show us an older source.

.

I like this one:

pierce

c.1300, from Anglo-Fr. perser, O.Fr. percier (11c.), probably from V.L. *pertusiare, frequentative of L. pertusus, pp. of pertundere "to thrust or bore through," from per- "through" + tundere "to beat, pound," from PIE base *(s)tud- "to beat, strike, push, thrust" (see obtuse). Related: Pierced; piercing; the latter, in reference to cold, sound, etc. is recorded from early 15c.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=pierce

PROBABLY from V.L .... - even etymology uses 'probably' acceptably, because their is no hard and fast rules for it.

per - through

That would be what worm as pier means imo. to pierce - to go through - which is what worms do - go through the soil - or us.

[Abramelin]

Yeah, you better go to sleep, lol.

The Frisians/Old Frisians use/d WERM.

Just show me an older Frisian/Germanic source that tells us something different.

But no one can.

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Edited December 14, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

I'll tell you all something.

When I have an idea, when I claim something, I always quote from available sources I base my ideas on.

I do not make it all up just because I think it sounds nice, or that "I had a dream".

And that is the main problem in this thread: "they could have read it in the OLB, or heard rumours about some ancient source."

You, they 'could'.

But show me some ancient source that corroborates your ideas.

Alewyn did his best, that much I will give him, and from what I understand he researched all on his own.

But he ignored the rest about what the OLB told us about those "bad times", and he never took the trouble to check if the English translations he used for his book were correct. Well, they weren't. Tony Seel made a lot of errors (Tony acknowledged he did in this thread), and so did Sandbach.

"Climate change around 2200 BC?" The OLB tells us a lot more than just a damn climate change.

Lands rising and submerging, volcanoes erupting, mountains rising and going down, forest fires all over Germany, and all that for THREE years on end.

Did anyone show ANY proof of all that ever happening in Europe?

No.

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Edited December 14, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Alewyn once asked me if the OLB narrative was 'absurd' in my eyes.

No, anyone reading the OLB narrative would not think it is an absurd story.

No 'aliens', no weird stories at all.

It sounds sane, and even more sane then the Bible.

But the OLB appears too modern, too much influenced by some modern humanistic philosophy.

[Knul]

It's common practice in Dutch and Flemmish to create a word out of two (almost) synonyms.

Otharus, don't tell such nonsense.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, don't tell such nonsense.

This is a message from me: stop this bull between the two of you.

Stop it.

Just post what you know or whatever you found out, but stop attacking eachother about... well... about nothing.

Behave like sober adults.

Jeesh, I never thought it would be ME to post this, lol.

+++

Give eachother credit, and do not attack eachother just because you do not agree with eachother.

And that's from a guy who even has problems reading your posts.

In short: shut the **** up, and focuss on the topic.

.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

Otharus, don't tell such nonsense.

A few examples:

regen-bui

pis-zeik

advies-raad

dol-fijn

druk-pers

kei-steen

klets-praat

neder-laag

schemer-duister

sik-baard

straat-weg

taak-opdracht

trap-ladder

morgen-ochtend

[Abramelin]

Hahahahaaa, you must be as drunk/intoxicated as I am now.

And I had to endure the presence of my ex who gave me hell again.

Most of you don't know: my ex lives 5 stories up, and she's like a bat from hell when she's drunk.

And then she visits me, after 10 PM, and gives me hell when I am busy with the OLB, and she asks me, "Shut up!!. What are u bullsh***g about, NOW I am talking with you!!".

"What's this all about??".

God, there are times I wish I was dead.

.

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Edited December 14, 2011 by Abramelin

[Oniomancer]

It's common practice in Dutch and Flemmish to create a word out of two (almost) synonyms.

I can accept that, since Germanic languages are known for having unusual compounds. Even in some dialects of English you'll occasionally see some conceptual redundancy. (ex: B**ch dog)

Wurm with a u turns out to be German proper, which makes the context in your provided definition somewhat unusual and admittedly may negate it's relevance.

The "Almost" is significant though. Either way, obviously pier Has a specific connotation of it's own separate from werm. The question then is what.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Oniomancer

[Knul]

regen-bui type of shower cfr. sneeuwbui, hagelbui, donderbui

pis-zeik ???? not in my vocabulary

advies-raad type of council cfr. ouderraad, leerlingenraad

dol-fijn ???? < delphin (loanword)

druk-pers type of press cfr handpers

kei-steen type of stone cfr tufsteen, kiezelsteen

klets-praat type of talk cfr scheepspraat, bakerpraatjes cfr kletskous

neder-laag ???? laag < leggen not laag = low

schemer-duister ??? cfr schemerlamp, schemerlicht

sik-baard type of beard cfr snorbaard, ringbaard

straat-weg type of street cfr. ventweg, bosweg, snelweg

taak-opdracht type of order cfr onderzoeksopdracht

trap-ladder type of ladder cfr trapzak, trapveldje, traploper

morgen-ochtend tomorrow morning

You should really go back to school to learn how words are formed in Dutch. s. http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woordvorming. You think, that you are more intelligent than Abe and me together ? It does not show.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Knul

[The Puzzler]

Hahahahaaa, you must be as drunk/intoxicated as I am now.

And I had to endure the presence of my ex who gave me hell again.

Most of you don't know: my ex lives 5 stories up, and she's like a bat from hell when she's drunk.

And then she visits me, after 10 PM, and gives me hell when I am busy with the OLB, and she asks me, "Shut up!!. What are u bullsh***g about, NOW I am talking with you!!".

"What's this all about??".

God, there are times I wish I was dead.

.

.

hahaha poor Abe. I mean that sincerely. lol

Listen Abe, all your going on about providing a source is a waste of time - if a source was available, the OLB would be solved.

That's the whole mystery, there is no sources really to back it all up.

By acknowledging what the OLB is saying and following through that train of thought and finding that the words actually make better sense if they went out of the Fryan language, which might not be just Frisian, but a mix of Anglo-Saxon and Norse and other local dialects. To think the OLB should have hard and fast rules about language is another fault imo.

This language is meant to be the precursor to Latin and Greek and Phoenician, of course not all of it but bulk of those languages should be found in the Fryan language. Many different language lines are mentioned in the OLB, the sailors themselves have quite a different vocabulary, those who descend from the Greeks, speak Fryan but it's now constructed differently, eg: they say sat instead of salt etc.

I can't find an online source where vampyr will be found earlier than what's already known but I certainly can find what appears to be a good description of the leech in languages that could have derived from Fryan (as per the OLB).

[The Puzzler]

I can accept that, since Germanic languages are known for having unusual compounds. Even in some dialects of English you'll occasionally see some conceptual redundancy. (ex: B**ch dog)

Wurm with a u turns out to be German proper, which makes the context in your provided definition somewhat unusual and admittedly may negate it's relevance.

The "Almost" is significant though. Either way, obviously pier Has a specific connotation of it's own separate from werm. The question then is what.

I think it's found in pierce - pier - through - to go through.

It may have been pier - per - wer or wur to wurm/worm - maybe there is no etymological connection between the 2. But pier is another word that is also a worm.

To pieren meant just like worm in the context of to 'worm your way out of something' ie; to get through, to be tricky enough to get out of something.

[Knul]

Vampyr is not vam + pyr, but vamp + affix -yr like bankier (banker) is not ban + kier, but bank + affix -ier or plankier (platform) is not plan + kier but plank + affix -ier or soldaat (soldier) is not sol + daat, but sold + affix -aat, etc. Vampyr is not a compound word, but a derivation. This shows how misleading Otharus with his pyr = pier = worm is.

cfr bogatyr = giant < bogat-yr, adj. bogat-yr-skyi

Edited December 15, 2011 by Knul

[Otharus]

regen-bui type of shower cfr. sneeuwbui, hagelbui, donderbui

pis-zeik ???? not in my vocabulary

advies-raad type of council cfr. ouderraad, leerlingenraad

dol-fijn ???? < delphin (loanword)

druk-pers type of press cfr handpers

kei-steen type of stone cfr tufsteen, kiezelsteen

klets-praat type of talk cfr scheepspraat, bakerpraatjes cfr kletskous

neder-laag ???? laag < leggen not laag = low

schemer-duister ??? cfr schemerlamp, schemerlicht

sik-baard type of beard cfr snorbaard, ringbaard

straat-weg type of street cfr. ventweg, bosweg, snelweg

taak-opdracht type of order cfr onderzoeksopdracht

trap-ladder type of ladder cfr trapzak, trapveldje, traploper

morgen-ochtend tomorrow morning

You must really get a kick out of wasting your time.

Sense of humor correlates highly with both creativity and intelligence.

(Conclusion of "The relationship of humor to intelligence, creativity, and intentionbal and incidental learning" (published in Journal of Experimental Education #40-4, 1972) by Hauck & Thomas

http://www.jstor.org/pss/20157303

[Otharus]

You think, that you are more intelligent than Abe and me together?

Why do you think so?

I never said that.

[Otharus]

The whole point of the discussion about "vampyr" is this:

OLB, according to Abe and Knul, would have to be a modern fabrication, because it has words in it that SEEM modern.

They basically say:

"It cannot be a 13th century copy, because word XYZ was first used in a text from the 15th century."

In my perception, this is an obvious thinking error, because:

1. words will usually be much older than the first time they were written down

2. most written texts that have ever existed are lost

They might as well say:

"It cannot be old, because I can not imagine it."

Not one single example of those "modern word" cases are proof that OLB has to be a hoax.

My point is just this:

That OLB would be a hoax is NOT PROVEN sufficiently, let alone that it was created by Halbertsma, Over de Linden, Stadermann, Haverschmidt, Verwijs and/or anyone else.

If this FACT would be accepted, I would be satisfied.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Otharus

[Otharus]

pis-zeik ???? not in my vocabulary

Try Google, piszeikerd!

"Geef mij maar een Hertog Jan! (dat piszeik van heineken mag je houden)"

"En dan zelfs nog over de piszeik kan gaan op aan behoorlijk volume dat is niet gezond..."

"Kheb geen zin om op een straal piszeik te liggen ..."

"het is je avatar, die piszeik van een amstel"

I think it's Rotterdam slang.

It nicely shows that dictionaries are never complete (did you really believe that?!).

And I can guarantee that there are also words in use that cannot be found on the world-wide-web (... yet).

[Otharus]

The Frisians/Old Frisians use/d WERM.

But we don't know if they also used PYR/PIER.

OLB has many examples of synonyms (several words with the same meaning).

It's not impossible just because we have no examples of it in literature.

Westfrisians use both words, but "pier" usually for the huge ones found on the "wad", used for seafishing.

[The Puzzler]

Vampyr is not vam + pyr, but vamp + affix -yr like bankier (banker) is not ban + kier, but bank + affix -ier or plankier (platform) is not plan + kier but plank + affix -ier or soldaat (soldier) is not sol + daat, but sold + affix -aat, etc. Vampyr is not a compound word, but a derivation. This shows how misleading Otharus with his pyr = pier = worm is.

cfr bogatyr = giant < bogat-yr, adj. bogat-yr-skyi

and you know this because???

[The Puzzler]

Another interesting thing with pier from Flanders region is that it also goes through to trap, prison, den, which is now obsolete/archaic.

Etymology 1 Noun pier m. (plural pieren, diminutive piertje, diminutive plural piertjes)

1.(zoology) A worm, earthworm (in Flanders)

Etymology 2 English pier

Nounpier m. (plural pieren, diminutive piertje, diminutive plural piertjes)

1.(architecture) A pier, jetty

Derived terms Wandelpier

See also aanlegsteiger

golfbreker

hoofd

steiger

Etymology 3 Unknown; Flanders only

Alternative forms piere (obsolete)

Noun pier m. (plural pieren, diminutive piertje, diminutive plural piertjes)

1.(archaic) A physical trap

2.(archaic) A figurative trap, ambush

3.(archaic) A place one is trapped in:

1.a prison

2.a rabbit den

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pier

Edited December 15, 2011 by The Puzzler