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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


Riaan

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It does look a little like a fleur de lis.

So does a shamrock. What's next, convincing the Irish that there is no such thing as a shamrock, that they're really fleur de lis? Good luck.

It is the most common symbol of royalty, why is this?

Amongst Western European royalty perhaps. And why not, they're all literally related through inter-marriage over the last millenium or two. Ideas and symbols have passed back and forth, freely, the whole time.

cormac

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So does a shamrock. What's next, convincing the Irish that there is no such thing as a shamrock, that they're really fleur de lis? Good luck.

Amongst Western European royalty perhaps. And why not, they're all literally related through inter-marriage over the last millenium or two. Ideas and symbols have passed back and forth, freely, the whole time.

cormac

Well not really because noone could say the shamrock does not exist. The fleur de lis is not so certainly to have been based on an actual plant though I think it was. Probably a lily or iris but what could attest for the symbol being so old.

http://umipigyestalilla.tripod.com/id8.html

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/fdl.htm

According to the likes of Alexsander Hislop, the fleur de lis can be traced back to Mesopatamia and Nimrod but then again you and I both know Hislops work is full of errors but still the symbol seems quite ancient.

I find it amuzing that it has become the symbol of New Orleans and hope.

http://parablesblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/did-saints-really-win-superbowl-44.html

Oh yeah, what were your thoughts on Troy in Cambridgeshire? I had never heard that one before.

http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsMiddEast/AnatoliaTroy.htm

It doesn't seem to stack up against the Anatolian theory.

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Oh yeah, what were your thoughts on Troy in Cambridgeshire? I had never heard that one before.

Sadly, even some of the British are not immune to wanting to be the be-all/end-all of recorded history. Another theory for the trash bin.

cormac

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One more on the Trojan war cormac..

OK, the Franks say they are descended from Trojans, the French, Paris and all, but they have Hector on their playing cards as the Jack of Diamonds, because they claim to be Trojans.

This was poo-poohed by the 18th century.

But if you look closely again at the Divine Mirror you can see 2 things that are very French.

One is the Ermine they are wearing and the 2nd is the Fleur de Lis being held.

So, are indeed the French Trojans?... probably so.

Here's a picture I found on the net that I have in a book when I first noticed the 2 distinctive things the same as in the Divine Mirror picture and realised they had Hector on their playing cards too, then of course, we have Paris. Freedom and liberty.

Not on Mary, but on Francis.

Did Crystal links leave a pod in your cellar?

From wiki:

The use for ornamental or symbolic purposes of the stylised flower usually called fleur de lis is common to all eras and all civilizations. It is an essentially graphic theme found on Mesopotamian cylinders, Egyptian bas-reliefs, Mycenean pottery, Sassanid textiles, Gaulish and Mameluk coins, Indonesian clothes, Japanese emblems, and Dogon totems. The many writers who have discussed the topic agree that it has little resemblance to the lily, but they disagree as to whether it derives from the iris, the broom, the lotus, or the furze; others believe it represents a trident, an arrowhead, a double axe, or even a dove or a pigeon. It is in our opinion a problem of little importance. The essential point is that it is a very stylized figure, probably a flower, that has been used as an ornament or an emblem by almost all civilizations of the old and new worlds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleur-de-lis

And if you single out that bit about the Netherlands, so help me...

Also the link you gave to the divine mirror identifies the robes as leopard skins, not ermine.

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Sadly, even some of the British are not immune to wanting to be the be-all/end-all of recorded history. Another theory for the trash bin.

cormac

Phew... I thought the world had gone insane, fortunately it is only the opinion of some english lecturer and they aren't teaching this in schools yet.

Here's a good link on the Kaberoi. Complex stuff but ntohing ringing bells on OLB. That is what this is about after all.

http://grazian-archive.net/quantavolution/vol_12/ka_12.htm

It seems there is a grwoing undercurrent of etruscan identity in Italy. Perhaps unsurprising it speaks of witchcraft but is based around Diana or Artemis to me. Faerie lore and all that malarch which does sound a bit more like of the feel of the OLB imo. I ain't read it all but it looks interesting if you like that sort of thing.

http://www.stregheria.com/Society.htm

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Whatever people...what do I care...?

FLEUR-DE-LIS (Fr. "lily flower"), an heraldic device, very widespread in the armorial bearings of all countries, but more particularly associated with the royal house of France. The conventional fleur-de-lis, as Littre says, represents very imperfectly three flowers of the white lily (Lilium) joined together, the central one erect, and each of the other two curving outwards. The fleur-de-lis is a common device in ancient decoration, notably in India and in Egypt,where it was the symbol of life and resurrection, the attribute of the god Horus. It is common also in Etruscan bronzes.

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Fleur-de-lis

Even Cinderella really had an ermine slipper, not glass.

The glass slipper in "Cinderella" is probably an error by Charles Perrault, translating in 1697, mistaking O.Fr. voir "ermine, fur" for verre "glass." In other versions of the tale it is a fur slipper.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=sun-shine

Yeah, leopard skin, righto....not.

Thanks for the info Slim, sounds interesting, since the Trojans are recorded as migrating to Troy (from Dardania) it does make sense. Back later.

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I find it amuzing that it has become the symbol of New Orleans and hope.

http://parablesblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/did-saints-really-win-superbowl-44.html

Probably because New Orleans is still very French, the French Quarter etc...

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Phew... I thought the world had gone insane, fortunately it is only the opinion of some english lecturer and they aren't teaching this in schools yet.

Here's a good link on the Kaberoi. Complex stuff but ntohing ringing bells on OLB. That is what this is about after all.

http://grazian-archive.net/quantavolution/vol_12/ka_12.htm

It seems there is a grwoing undercurrent of etruscan identity in Italy. Perhaps unsurprising it speaks of witchcraft but is based around Diana or Artemis to me. Faerie lore and all that malarch which does sound a bit more like of the feel of the OLB imo. I ain't read it all but it looks interesting if you like that sort of thing.

http://www.stregheria.com/Society.htm

Heres the Wiki article on Stregheria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stregheria

I would not be very suprised at all, Etruscans were very strange when it came to spiritual, most pious and did nothing without consulting the Gods, I mean nothing. When you have people reading sheeps livers to divine the future they are pretty serious about it, they could read lightening by the number of bolts shooting off the main one and predict by the way birds flew.

Calchas in the Iliad is unmistakably an Etruscan haruspice, maybe they were known as wizards later.

Article on witchcraft with the picture of Chalchas divining can be found here: http://www.witchcraftandwitches.com/related_divination.html

extispicy.jpg

Please note Slim, he has wings like a swan, oops, I mean angel, like many Etruscan characters do.

Haruspice was practised in ancient Babylon too and a few other areas.

Could even be some sort of Magi connection.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Phew... I thought the world had gone insane, fortunately it is only the opinion of some english lecturer and they aren't teaching this in schools yet.

Maybe I will start a Where In The Freakin' World Is Troy? thread...

TROJAN BATTLEFIELD

Troy and the Trojan War location has been found and the battlefield completely reconstructed from the scattered but very detailed information given in Homer's Iliad.

Troy in England, however unbelievable, is fully explained in this amazing work which provides in depth information and evidence of all kinds including geographic and linguistic evidence as well as countless archaeological finds.

The war was not waged by Greeks and not caused by the abduction of Helen. The real reason was access to tin in Britain, a precious metal which was essential for the production of bronze, a key war material of the time.

During the second millennium BC, it was the custom of illiterate Sea Peoples migrating from western Europe to verbally pass on history, that's how the tales of the greatest war of prehistory, the Trojan War was first recorded.

Previously, Hissarlik in Turkey was thought to be the location of Troy, but no traces of the Trojan war have been found near there.

You will discover this work clearly demonstrates that the Iliad, however poetic, is based on real historical events in Bronze Age Western Europe.

For the first time, readers of the Iliad and Trojan history can follow the action in the field.

Where Troy Once Stood

http://www.troy-in-england.co.uk/

Although most translations say that the attackers of Troy were the Greeks, those are wrong. The real assaulters of Troy were the Achaeans, which translates to "sea-men." The customs described in the Iliad are typically Celtic. It is the general belief that the Troy is in Turkey because of the locations of Hellespont, Lesbos, Tenedos, and Samothrace. Also because the story was written in ancient Greek. Most of Homer's descriptions do not relate to the region that they believe to be Troy. Most of Europe's river names are very ancient. So there should be some resemblance to the names in the Iliad and the current setting. Homer mentions nine rivers in the Trojan plain. However these rivers were thought to be part of the writer's imagination, because no such rivers exist in Turkey, but there is a match to these rivers in England.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/trojanwar/troyinengland.html

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Abe, you recall we disected Walhallagaren, Wallacra, Wallcheren.

I found that Walha really means, foreign people.

Walh is probably derived from the name of the tribe which was known to the Romans as Volcae (in the writings of Julius Caesar) and to the Greeks as Ouólkai (Strabo and Ptolemy).[2] With the Old Germanic name *Walhaz, plural *Walhôz, adjectival form *walhiska-, this neighbouring people of the Germanic people were meant some centuries before Christ. It is assumed that this term specifically referred to the Celtic Volcae, because by a precise application of the first Germanic sound change the exact Germanic equivalent *Walh- would have come out. Subsequently, this term Walhôz has rather indiscriminately been applied to the southern neighbours of the Germanic people, which is shown in geographic names such as Walchgau and Walchensee in Bavaria. [1]. These southern neighbours, however, were then already completely romanised. Thus, by Germanic speakers this name was generalized first onto all Celts, and later onto all Romans.

Already in Roman days, the island was a point of departure for ships going to Britain and it had a temple of the goddess Nehalennia who was popular with those who wished to brave the waters of the North Sea. The Romans called it "Wallacra", a term most likely associated with Walha, the name Germans used for all foreign peoples. Walcheren was the seat of the Danish Viking Harald, who conquered the present Netherlands together with his compatriot Rorik (or Rurik) in the ninth century. One fringe theory has it that it was the island described by Ibn Rustah as the seat of the khagan of the Rus'. Another fringe theory mentions Walcheren as the seat of Hades, described by Homer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walcheren

In Western European languages:

in English:

Wales, Welsh (with the prefix Wal-)

Cornwall (with the suffix -wall)

In English usage the words Gaul and Gaulish are used synonymously with Latin Gallia, Gallus and Gallicus. However the similarity of the names is probably accidental: the English words are borrowed from French Gaule and Gaulois, which appear to have been borrowed themselves from walha-. Germanic w is regularly rendered with French gu / g (cf. guerre = war, garder = ward), and the diphthong au is the regular outcome of al before a following consonant (cf. cheval ~ chevaux). Gaule or Gaulle can hardly be derived from Latin Gallia, since g would become j before a (cf. gamba > jambe), the regular outcome of Latin Gallia would have been *Jaille in French.[3][4] This also applies to the French name for Wales, which is le pays de Galles.

waledich or wallditch, (weahl + ditch) was the pre-Victorian name of Avebury stone circle, in Avebury, Wiltshire [5]

Walnut, from Old English walhnutu(wealh+ hnutu) meaning "foreign nut", as it was introduced from Gallia ("Gaul") and Italy. [6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walha

The native term for the language is Cymraeg, and Cymru for "Wales.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_language

The Greeks who settled in Italy first kicked out some people called the Cimmerians, we know them best as marauding steppe people but there is continuity in the name to Northern Europe.

Cumae alphabet was it?

at Cyme - kyme.

If you all liked my French are Etruscan Trojans....lol

You are gonna love this one - Slim, you ready for this???

According to the British historian Nennius a group of people, under the leadership of BRUTUS, invaded England some 1100 years before the Messiah and set up a dynasty of British kings. WHO was this Brutus; and WHERE did he come from? The legends and histories of the ancient world trace Brutus and his throng back to Italy and, through his ancestors, BACK TO THE TROY OF HOMER!

Abe---did you say SPOTTED COW was silly? Remember doe/spotted = ra

Ilus went to Phrygia, where he received, as a wrestling prize from the king of Phrygia, a spotted cow, with an injunction to found a city where she lay down.

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/i000109a.htm

BUT don't quote that article as my own point of view, just bringing some things to the table before I start.

Sing, O goddess, the anger of Achilles son of Peleus, that brought countless ills upon the Achaeans. Many a brave soul did it send hurrying down to Hades, and many a hero did it yield a prey to dogs and vultures, for so were the counsels of Jove fulfilled from the day on which the son of Atreus, king of men, and great Achilles, first fell out with one another.

http://classics.mit.edu/Homer/iliad.1.i.html

Edited by The Puzzler
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This person has it going along and can see the Welsh Cymbri might be connected to the Etruscans but never mentions Cimmerians of Italy so read all this in mind that Cimmerians are not only in Denmark and Scythia but also in Italy, exactly south of the Etruscans.

http://www.tribwatch.com/wheel.htm

By discovering that the Arthurian legends are take-offs from Hercules-related myths, a connection is made between the Arthur/Pendragon and Hercules bloodlines. Behold Greek myth wherein Hercules, prior to mating with the half-snake woman, was in the process of returning from a place called "Erytheia" somewhere on the west coast of Europe.

By the time that I had learned this, I had already read in Britannica that the Vikings had settled a Welsh site called "Erethlyn," wherefore I suspected that Hercules was in Erethlyn. Arthurian bloodlines were associated with Wales, especially Merlin the magician (whose name, I think, is a depiction of the Mars bloodline). Note that Wales is to this day depicted by a red dragon. To this I should add that the Welsh to this day claim to be descended from Cimmerians...not at all suggesting that I would identify the Welsh of Merlin's day as purely Gomerians because in such a far-reaching migration, mixing with various peoples is expected.

I was surprised to find that the Viking settlement of Erethlyn was in the district of "Rhos" (see map), evoking the Hros and the Biblical Rosh, both of whom I had independently identified as Cimmerians. In Britain, "rhos" is Celtic for "head(land)," and it's a fact that the Biblical "Rosh" means "head/chief."

The Rosh ruled in Caucasia and Armenia, probably as the Rusa kings of Rusahinili; recall that I linked the root of "Rusahinili" to the Ruthene/Rusyn of France, and that I had also connected the Ruthene of France to the Hros of Kiev. However, I did not find whether the Ruthene stemmed from the Hros of Kiev, or vice versa. It may be that the Ruthene of France (of Christian centuries) spread east to form the Hros, and west to form the Welsh empire.

The latter, while known historically as Cumbria, became the seat of Western Atlantis for a time; hence the Merlin/Arthur myths. Recall that Jordanes called the Cimmerians, "Cimbri," wherefore Cumbrian Atlantis seems to have the peculiarity of being Cimmerian. But to this it needs to be repeated that Jordanus pegged a "Gug" as the ancestors of the Cimbri. And this squares with my finding that Hercules, who came to Wales, was of a Gorgon-Cimmerian bloodline, as were all the Greek Danaans before him.

Heracles? One more look at the mirror to see whose hanging out with the Rusenna's (Etruscans)...

PS: Conan the Barbarian is a Cimmerian in an Atlantean world of Hyboria. Conan doesn't sound a very Scythian name to me though...movie, I know, but the writer of the Conan books is extremely intelligent.

Conan is a Cimmerian (based somewhat loosely on the Celts), a barbarian of the far north.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conan_the_Barbarian

Same link:

Though several later authors have referred to Conan as "Germanic-looking", Howard imagined the Cimmerians as a proto-Celtic people with mostly black hair and blue or grey eyes. Ethnically the Cimmerians to which Conan belongs are descendants of the Atlanteans, though they do not remember their ancestry. In his fictional historical essay The Hyborian Age, Howard describes how the people of Atlantis — the land where his character King Kull originated — had to move east after a great cataclysm changed the face of the world and sank their island, settling where northern Ireland and Scotland would eventually be located. In the same work, Howard also described how the Cimmerians eventually moved south and east after the age of Conan (presumably in the vicinity of the Black Sea, where the historical Cimmerians dwelt).

I'm not going to base my theories on a movie but am highlighting Conan to show how he has interpreted Cimmerians to be Celtic.

Edited by The Puzzler
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The Cimbrians of Jutland, Denmark could have spread just as the Oera Linda book says they did.

In near Krekaland they became the Cimmerians that were displaced by the far Krekalanders, the Greeks. If you check out Latium it is very swampy.

The Cumae alphabet in no way proves this alphabet came in with the Greeks, just because it matches the Greek western alphabet.

Strabo gives this vivid description of the Cimbric folklore (Geogr. 7.2.3, trans. H.L. Jones):

Their wives, who would accompany them on their expeditions, were attended by priestesses who were seers; these were grey-haired, clad in white, with flaxen cloaks fastened on with clasps, girt with girdles of bronze, and bare-footed; now sword in hand these priestesses would meet with the prisoners of war throughout the camp, and having first crowned them with wreaths would lead them to a brazen vessel of about twenty amphorae; and they had a raised platform which the priestess would mount, and then, bending over the kettle, would cut the throat of each prisoner after he had been lifted up; and from the blood that poured forth into the vessel some of the priestesses would draw a prophecy, while still others would split open the body and from an inspection of the entrails would utter a prophecy of victory for their own people; and during the battles they would beat on the hides that were stretched over the wicker-bodies of the wagons and in this way produce an unearthly noise

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbri

These Cimbri could read prophecies from entrails....bit of a co-incidence that, considering Etruscans also practised this form of divination.

ISN'T anyone else here??? My sincere apologies for making 7 posts in a row, I have a lot to say...

Please, someone just type something.

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I found a You Tube video which is pretty much on topic...

Edited by The Puzzler
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From the tribwatch site again, I think they discovered the Latium link....

I did an artwork on Maia, she is one of my fave Goddesses, even though I don't mention her much here, she is Hermes mother, so she knows alot. She is in Arcadia and the nymph of the caves. Pan lives in Arcadia and it went on to be known as a kind of Utopia... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcadia_(paradise)

Here is the wonderful Poussin painting - et in Arcadia ego

300px-Nicolas_Poussin_052.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_in_Arcadia_ego

OK, back to tribwatch:

"SABINI, an ancient tribe of Italy, which was more closely in touch with the Romans from the earliest recorded period than any other Italic people. They dwelt in the mountainous country east of the Tiber."

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/S/SA/SABINI.htm

Therefore, if the Sabini were not Kittim, they were close enough for the Chieti region to have been a Kittim branch.

When I saw that the Chieti region of "Maiella" evoked either Maia, elder daughter of Atlas, or Melia, goddess of honey, progenitor of the Bias/Byzas peoples, I went Internet searching, and found that the Maiella region was named after a goddess, Maja, who came searching for her children in the Abruzzo mountains. When I found the Italian claim that the month of May was named after Maja, I knew that she was the Greek Maia, for May is indeed named after her. Note that Maja evokes the Magi Medes.

That clinches it: this region was inhabited by the Atlas peoples, and then they disappeared so that Maja could not find them! I wonder what the mythographers were intending when making up that story?? Perhaps they really didn't know, or maybe they wanted to hide the whereabouts of the Atlanteans. Note who was among one of her children, for when Zeus mated with her, she bore Hermes!! Maja didn't have a computer and Internet to find her children, but I think I've found them, in Wales.

While the town of Picenze is small (1,000 inhabitants), keep in mind that it's a feat in itself for such ancient Greek terms to remain to this day in surnames, speaking on the past importance that these peoples must have had. The town's fourth most-common name, Ferrari ("of iron" i.e. metal smiths), is a well-known name today. The Ferrari family Coat is a single upright gold lion. I should add that Jerusalem itself, under the Rothschild era, uses an upright lion as its symbol. The Russell clan uses an upright one as well, but the Ross clan uses/used three upright lions. I found that the Bos family Coat is an upright red lion. "Bosco" showed a single gold lion with an eagle overhead. The Bias family Coat includes two upright lions, gold just like the Ferrari lion, plus two gold fleur de lis. I couldn't find anything under "Buz," but the Boz/Bose family of surnames uses one single black rose.

The question is, are these lions, as Rosicrucians might suggest to the public, the lion of the tribe of Judah (i.e. Jesus), or are the lions, as Rosicrucians might confess to their initiated ones, the Lydian lion, a symbol of the occult’s sun god?

The "Bias" surname originated in the Naples region, an area that appears to be a Greek bee-line settlement of Melia’s Bias/Byzas people, the same bee line that I am tracing across Europe to the Merovingian bees and beyond. Melia ("honey") was a depiction of Boiotia/Boeotia. As the Picene Italians were settled in the Naples region, it supports my conclusion that they are a bee-line peoples.

Italy was first settled by Euboeans/Euboians, the root of which could be "Boi." Because the Euboeans had stemmed from the Abantes peoples, the Euboeans were possibly the founders of the Aventine hill of Rome. The "Bias" surname originated in the Naples region, an area that I am pegging as a Greek bee-line settlement of Melia’s Bias/Byzas people, the same bee line that I am tracing across Europe to the Merovingian bees and beyond. Melia ("honey") was a depiction of Boiotia/Boeotia. As the Picene Italians were also settled in the Naples region, where the Picenti mountains are found, it supports my conclusion that they are a bee-line peoples.

http://www.tribwatch.com/atlantis.htm

In WALES....lol

I did ask if you were ready Slim and it seems this person has inadvertedly came to the same conclusion as me, people from Italy end up in Wales.

Then this:

I have no solid idea as yet what the three-peak design (called "chevrons" by heraldry buffs) of the Taddei and Cardiff coats refer to; perhaps the same as the Aquila Coat, wherein a crowned eagle stands upon three mountain peaks. The Powys Council Coat (Powys is a region of Wales). It has a similar three-peak design, and an eagle overhead.

Notice the three words in the banner, one being "Cymry," another Powys, and the third, "Paradois." Welsh legend speaks of the Paradise of Powys, something definitely to look into. As the Taddei name was first found in the capital of Tuscany, recall that Etruscans called themselves Rasna/Rasenna, and were feasibly, therefore, Cimmerian Rus.

I called the Etruscans Rasenna's in a previous post just to make that point. (About Heracles)

I did mention the Sabines earlier though too, because the Parthenon has the theme on it.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Abe, you recall we disected Walhallagaren, Wallacra, Wallcheren.

I found that Walha really means, foreign people.

Walh is probably derived from the name of the tribe which was known to the Romans as Volcae (in the writings of Julius Caesar) and to the Greeks as Ouólkai (Strabo and Ptolemy).[2] With the Old Germanic name *Walhaz, plural *Walhôz, adjectival form *walhiska-, this neighbouring people of the Germanic people were meant some centuries before Christ. It is assumed that this term specifically referred to the Celtic Volcae, because by a precise application of the first Germanic sound change the exact Germanic equivalent *Walh- would have come out. Subsequently, this term Walhôz has rather indiscriminately been applied to the southern neighbours of the Germanic people, which is shown in geographic names such as Walchgau and Walchensee in Bavaria. [1]. These southern neighbours, however, were then already completely romanised. Thus, by Germanic speakers this name was generalized first onto all Celts, and later onto all Romans.

Already in Roman days, the island was a point of departure for ships going to Britain and it had a temple of the goddess Nehalennia who was popular with those who wished to brave the waters of the North Sea. The Romans called it "Wallacra", a term most likely associated with Walha, the name Germans used for all foreign peoples. Walcheren was the seat of the Danish Viking Harald, who conquered the present Netherlands together with his compatriot Rorik (or Rurik) in the ninth century. One fringe theory has it that it was the island described by Ibn Rustah as the seat of the khagan of the Rus'. Another fringe theory mentions Walcheren as the seat of Hades, described by Homer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walcheren

In Western European languages:

in English:

Wales, Welsh (with the prefix Wal-)

Cornwall (with the suffix -wall)

In English usage the words Gaul and Gaulish are used synonymously with Latin Gallia, Gallus and Gallicus. However the similarity of the names is probably accidental: the English words are borrowed from French Gaule and Gaulois, which appear to have been borrowed themselves from walha-. Germanic w is regularly rendered with French gu / g (cf. guerre = war, garder = ward), and the diphthong au is the regular outcome of al before a following consonant (cf. cheval ~ chevaux). Gaule or Gaulle can hardly be derived from Latin Gallia, since g would become j before a (cf. gamba > jambe), the regular outcome of Latin Gallia would have been *Jaille in French.[3][4] This also applies to the French name for Wales, which is le pays de Galles.

waledich or wallditch, (weahl + ditch) was the pre-Victorian name of Avebury stone circle, in Avebury, Wiltshire [5]

Walnut, from Old English walhnutu(wealh+ hnutu) meaning "foreign nut", as it was introduced from Gallia ("Gaul") and Italy. [6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walha

The native term for the language is Cymraeg, and Cymru for "Wales.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_language

The Greeks who settled in Italy first kicked out some people called the Cimmerians, we know them best as marauding steppe people but there is continuity in the name to Northern Europe.

Cumae alphabet was it?

at Cyme - kyme.

If you all liked my French are Etruscan Trojans....lol

You are gonna love this one - Slim, you ready for this???

According to the British historian Nennius a group of people, under the leadership of BRUTUS, invaded England some 1100 years before the Messiah and set up a dynasty of British kings. WHO was this Brutus; and WHERE did he come from? The legends and histories of the ancient world trace Brutus and his throng back to Italy and, through his ancestors, BACK TO THE TROY OF HOMER!

Abe---did you say SPOTTED COW was silly? Remember doe/spotted = ra

Ilus went to Phrygia, where he received, as a wrestling prize from the king of Phrygia, a spotted cow, with an injunction to found a city where she lay down.

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/i000109a.htm

BUT don't quote that article as my own point of view, just bringing some things to the table before I start.

Sing, O goddess, the anger of Achilles son of Peleus, that brought countless ills upon the Achaeans. Many a brave soul did it send hurrying down to Hades, and many a hero did it yield a prey to dogs and vultures, for so were the counsels of Jove fulfilled from the day on which the son of Atreus, king of men, and great Achilles, first fell out with one another.

http://classics.mit.edu/Homer/iliad.1.i.html

Puzz, you forget to explain the 'allagara' part of the name Walhallagara.

Then, "Walhallagara" is never mentioned anywhere, only in the OLB.

And, we have a river here, called "Waal"; river of foreigners, maybe?

We have an expression here, "aan wal gaan", and it means "to go ashore". What would it mean to you? "To go foreign"? lol.

I also told you another possibility is that Walcheren maybe got it's name by a Viking king who settled there for some time.

And yes, I know the things you posted about 'Walha', believe me.

"The name Waal, in Roman times called Vacalis, Vahalis or Valis, later Vahal, is of Germanic origin and is named after the many meanders in the river (Old Germanic: wôh = crooked). It is, in turn, thought to have inspired early Dutch settlers of the Hudson Valley region in New York to name the Wallkill River after it (Waalkil = "Waal Creek")."

WIKI

About the 'wal', or shore as it now means in Dutch:

"O.E. weall "rampart" (natural as well as man-made), also "defensive fortification around a city, side of a building, interior partition," an Anglo-Frisian and Saxon borrowing (cf. O.S., O.Fris., M.L.G., M.Du. wal) from L. vallum "wall, rampart, row or line of stakes," apparently a collective form of vallus "stake." Swed. vall, Dan. val are from Low German."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=w&p=1

Here they explain the name of a Frisian town, called "Folsgara"; the second part, "gara" is Old Frisian for 'pointed shape', 'land-point' :

LINK

gara,guara (several spelings: cone shaped stretch of land, head-land :

http://seelter.110mb.com/LOUNDNOOMEN1b.pdf

Now, if the Walhallagara was indeed the original spelling of the place, then it most probably will have to do with the shape of the area. Or else it would mean, 'foreigners with pointed heads' or something, lol. Or seriously now, 'foreigners living on a headland'? Hmm.. my guess then goes to something that tells us about a walled fortress something on a headland.

OR:

"Walhalla.gara" :

Valhalla

heavenly hall in which Odin receives the souls of heroes slain in battle, 1768, from O.N. Valhöll "hall of the battle-slain;" first element from valr "those slain in battle," from P.Gmc. *walaz (cf. O.E. wæl "slaughter, bodies of the slain," O.H.G. wal "battlefield, slaughter"), from PIE base *wele- "to strike, wound" (cf. Avestan vareta- "seized, prisoner," L. veles "ghosts of the dead," O.Ir. fuil "blood," Welsh gwel "wound").

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=v

If you consider that, then it's entirely different again.

And please stop about those cows , lol. You start sounding ridiculous.

I don't care if there are cows dressed in a summer dress or in bikinis, we are talking about a sensible translation of that sentence of the 'cows with the golden horns'. Yours, with the various types of cows, is not really realistic. You just don't want to acknowledge that the sentence means nothing but "they promised them cows with golden horns", an old saying here.

Edited by Abramelin
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Here's a commentary about the OLB, in Swedish (translated with Google):

http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fjozef.saers.com%2FOeraLinda.htm&sl=sv&tl=en

http://jozef.saers.com/OeraLinda.htm

From the gobbledygook that Google makes of it, I understand it's something about the OLB taking place in Denmark/Sweden/Baltic.

So even though it's hard to read, I think you will like it, Puzz.

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Jeesh Puzz that is a lot to take in. I'll take it at my own pace if that's ok.

The Country of the Red Dragon is referred to as Cymru by its people, which means "The Land of Brothers", but by the English and others, it is called Wales (The Land of Strangers). Indeed, it was around the 1200's that the word Cymro (Welshman) replaced the ancient name of Brython the land of the Ancient Britons, thus increasing the consciousness of being people of Cymru rather than Brythonic. Nevertheless, the term Brython continued to be used by the Bards in their stories, poems and songs.

It has to be said at the outset, that my love of Cymru - the land of my birth - has to be seen within the context that, as Cymro (a Welshman), I am also a "World Citizen and firmly believe in the Unity and Oneness of All Mankind". I also believe that Unity between Races must and can be achieved. Hence, my first loyalty is to the whole of the Human Race. My Second loyalty is to my cultural homeland that has and continues to make me who and what I am - that is, part of the diversity of the whole, yet, both these loyalties - as I understand it - are inseparable, for all people are my brothers and sisters, regardless of race, colour or creed.

This sounds very much like something I'd say but I have never met anyone who has this same idea of 'Oneness'. Coincidence that me and this author share the same view.

http://www.hud-o-myrddin.co.uk/cymru_wales2.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locrinus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanactus

http://www.britannia.com/history/arthur/historians.html

The legend of Arthur is perhaps the most famous story ever. Originating amongst the welsh bards it went on to be adopted by any invaders who came to the welsh land. First it was anglicized by the saxons and then it became increasingly more french following the norman conquest. Eventually becoming the works of Troyes and the other romantics. This is a connection I can see with France and Wales (de Galle) but I am struggling with the italian connection a bit more. The Hros, rus connection makes a lot of sense with other nations and the Etruscans and there may be place for the Chaldeans or Culdees in there somewhere. The only connection I can make with Italy is the Calabrian monks who were involved in the Crusades and how it sounds slightly like Ex-calibar. That is a very weak link though so I'll look up some heraldry. The boar in particular leads back to Phrygia and Attis.

Maia is one of my favourites too and it may be pertient to point out the importance of May day or Beltane for the celts.

http://www.scottishradiance.com/far/far0501.htm

http://heritage-key.com/rome/etruscan-city-dead

http://www.applewarrior.com/celticwell/ejournal/beltane/warfare.htm

IMO there is an undeniable connection betweeen pagan, mystery cults and the occult. Whether the OLB falls into this category is another question but why not?

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Puzz, I hope you read my former post about Walhallagara.

To that I'd like to add that Walhallagara is once spelled as "walhalla.gara", suggesting it's created of 2 words, 'walhalla' and 'gara'.

And does Walhalla show up in the OLB? Yes, it does:

NW WIL IK SKRIWA HO THA GÊRTMANNA AND FÊLO HÊLÊNJA

FOLGAR TOBEK KÊMON.

Thach thene bodja hêde jeta-n ora brêve mith

fenin, thêrmêi bifâl-er hja skolde thåt innimma, hwand sêid-er-vnwillinglik

is thin lif bivvllad, thåt ne skil jow navt to rêkned ni wrde, thach sâhwersa

jow jowe sêle bivvlath sa ne skil jow nimmerthe to Walhâlla ne kvma, jow

sêle skil thån ovir irtha ommewâra

Now I will relate how the Geertman and many followers of Hellenia came back.

But, said he, your bodies have been defiled against your will. That you are not to blame for; but if your souls are not pure, you will never come into Walhalla. Your spirits will haunt the earth in darkness.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/olb/olb41.htm

So the name appears to point to a place, a head land, where they remembered Walhalla.

So it's no use trying to make it sound like it was some place of/for foreigners, or a place where foreigners arrived. The OLB itself calls it Walhalla.gara, and the OLB also uses the word Wahalla in it's original Nordic context (heaven, afterlife, place of the slain, and so on) in several places in the manuscript.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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The “wrongful customs” of the Magyar (see pg. 88) and elsewhere of the text probably have something to do with the evil Seidr that was spread by Gullveig, who was a Jotun maid. We have already seen her connection to the Magyars through the name Kalta. This sorcery corrupted the spirits of the Nordic folk which leads to Ragnarok. The “wrongful customs” of the Magyars corrupts “Frya’s folk” which is shown throughout O.L.B. (see pgs. 95-96 in particular) to have brought about the ruin of Nordic culture and society.

As we saw in the first book of Historia Danica, quoted in the first part of this treatise, the Jotuns of old were looked upon the euhemerists as a race of magicians who were constantly at war witht he other, second, race of magicians. In the Scandinavian lore these were the gods, in O.L.B. these were Frya’s folk. This conclusion serves to validate many of the results of the foregoing investigation. It shows, yet again, how closely connected the other euhemerized texts O.L.B. actually is, it confirms the identity of the Magyars as a historical replacement for the Jotuns, and it shows that the origin of O.L.B. is not as early as once believed, though the origins of its stories, like those of the other texts, are certainly much older.

http://www.norroena.org/research_oera_linda/chapter4.html

Because Odin is closely connected with a horse and spear and transformation/shape shifting into animal shapes an alternatively theory of origin contends that Odin or at least some of his key characteristics may have arisen just prior to the sixth century as a nightmareish horse god (Echwaz), later signified by the eight legged Sleipner. The original function of this horse was to carry the dead to wherever they were going and to sometimes snack on their flesh. Some support for Odin as a late comer to the Scandinavian Norse pantheon can be found in the Sagas where, for example, at one time he is thrown out of Asgard by the other gods - a seemingly unlikely tale for a well established "all father". Scholars who have linked Odin with the "Death God" template include E. A. Ebbinghaus, Jan de Vries and Thor Templin. The later two also link Loki and Odin as being one-and-the-same until the early Norse Period.

http://royharbin.tripod.com/staks/webwalks/xmas/odin_to_yule.html

The main symbol connecting all these distant cultures is the World Tree. This leads to Walhalla and for the Norse the tree was an ash which has the same meaning in saxon as spear, one of Odins weapons.

It is also a shamanic symbol. Like the Etrsucans the Valkyries had wings didn't they? I don't think these things including perhaps the OLB are meant to be taken literally but I am not really familiar with all the points at hand.

http://epistemic-forms.com/FacSite/Articles/world-ash-tree-stclair.html

http://epistemic-forms.com/FacSite/Articles/world-ash-tree-stclair.html

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Like the Etrsucans the Valkyries had wings didn't they?

Say Jim, did you post all that because of the name Walhallagara?

Sorry, but I think both you and Puzz are shooting with scrapnell, lol.

You will hit something, always, but not necessarily the target.

The OLB says "Walhalla. Gara". I can't help it, blame those who wrote it.

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Puzz, you forget to explain the 'allagara' part of the name Walhallagara.

Then, "Walhallagara" is never mentioned anywhere, only in the OLB.

And, we have a river here, called "Waal"; river of foreigners, maybe?

We have an expression here, "aan wal gaan", and it means "to go ashore". What would it mean to you? "To go foreign"? lol.

I also told you another possibility is that Walcheren maybe got it's name by a Viking king who settled there for some time.

And yes, I know the things you posted about 'Walha', believe me.

"The name Waal, in Roman times called Vacalis, Vahalis or Valis, later Vahal, is of Germanic origin and is named after the many meanders in the river (Old Germanic: wôh = crooked). It is, in turn, thought to have inspired early Dutch settlers of the Hudson Valley region in New York to name the Wallkill River after it (Waalkil = "Waal Creek")."

WIKI

About the 'wal', or shore as it now means in Dutch:

"O.E. weall "rampart" (natural as well as man-made), also "defensive fortification around a city, side of a building, interior partition," an Anglo-Frisian and Saxon borrowing (cf. O.S., O.Fris., M.L.G., M.Du. wal) from L. vallum "wall, rampart, row or line of stakes," apparently a collective form of vallus "stake." Swed. vall, Dan. val are from Low German."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=w&p=1

Here they explain the name of a Frisian town, called "Folsgara"; the second part, "gara" is Old Frisian for 'pointed shape', 'land-point' :

LINK

gara,guara (several spelings: cone shaped stretch of land, head-land :

http://seelter.110mb.com/LOUNDNOOMEN1b.pdf

Now, if the Walhallagara was indeed the original spelling of the place, then it most probably will have to do with the shape of the area. Or else it would mean, 'foreigners with pointed heads' or something, lol. Or seriously now, 'foreigners living on a headland'? Hmm.. my guess then goes to something that tells us about a walled fortress something on a headland.

OR:

"Walhalla.gara" :

Valhalla

heavenly hall in which Odin receives the souls of heroes slain in battle, 1768, from O.N. Valhöll "hall of the battle-slain;" first element from valr "those slain in battle," from P.Gmc. *walaz (cf. O.E. wæl "slaughter, bodies of the slain," O.H.G. wal "battlefield, slaughter"), from PIE base *wele- "to strike, wound" (cf. Avestan vareta- "seized, prisoner," L. veles "ghosts of the dead," O.Ir. fuil "blood," Welsh gwel "wound").

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=v

If you consider that, then it's entirely different again.

And please stop about those cows , lol. You start sounding ridiculous.

I don't care if there are cows dressed in a summer dress or in bikinis, we are talking about a sensible translation of that sentence of the 'cows with the golden horns'. Yours, with the various types of cows, is not really realistic. You just don't want to acknowledge that the sentence means nothing but "they promised them cows with golden horns", an old saying here.

I'll acknowledge it gladly if that's what it says.

WalhA is plural so it would only be the llagara part.

I got triangle for gara. As in triangular piece of land, so headland or triangular island might be right.

But then it could be the triangular headland (island?) that the foreigners came to., meaning it was the headland that the foreign sailors came into. Which is exactly what it was I guess.

Since Cornwall was included in that Walha link as the suffix wall, I thought I'd investigate it some more, y'know, my ancestry being Cornish, we came from Truro originally, my ancestor was a Cornish miner.

The name Cornwall comes from combining two different terms from separate languages. The Roman term for the Celtic tribe which inhabited what is now Cornwall at the time of Roman rule in Britain, Cornovii, came from a Brythonic tribal name which gave modern Cornish Kernow, also known as Corneu to the Brythons.[13] This could be from either of two sources; the common Celtic root cern, or the Latin cornu, both of which mean "horn" or "peninsula", suggestive of the shape of Cornwall's landmass. There is a problem with this theory however. At least two other known Celtic tribes bore the name Cornovii, one tribe in Caithness which may also be considered a "headland" or "horn-land", yet another, the principal tribe known to the Romans as Cornovii lived in the West Midlands and Powys areas, calling into question the derivation of the name from a peninsula (however, Celtic tribes were not necessarily permanently settled, and the Latin forms may be based on different British names).[14] Another theory suggests that the name of the Cornovii tribes may well be connected to totemic worship of the "horned god" such as the Gaulish Cernunnos or a similar totemic cult. Nevertheless, the Cornovii were sufficiently established in the present day area recognised as Cornwall for their territory to be recorded as Cornubia by 700 AD, and remained as such into the Middle Ages. The Ravenna Cosmography, of around 700, makes reference to Purocoronavis, (almost certainly a corruption of Durocornovium), 'a fort or walled settlement of the Cornovii', (unidentified, but possibly Tintagel or Carn Brea).[15][16]

During the 6th and 7th centuries, the name Cornubia became corrupted by extensive changes in the Old English language.[17] The Anglo-Saxons provided the suffix wealas, meaning "(romanised) foreigners", creating the term Corn-wealas. Some historians note that this was the word for Wales, however it is understood that the term applied instead to all Brythonic peoples and lands, who were considered foreign by the Anglo-Saxons. As Cornwall was known as West Wales (as being west of Wessex) and present-day Cumbria as North Wales during those times, the "Wales" meaning is probable.

Cern is Breton for horn, how about that. Cernunnos http://www.celtnet.org.uk/gods_c/cernwn.html

I'm a New South Welshwoman myself, that is the state of New South Wales here in Australia but I don't live there now. Apparently Captain Cook thought the East coast of Australia looked like South Wales and of course Australia was New Holland for quite a while before the English came in. Weird how names come around.

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I'll acknowledge it gladly if that's what it says.

WalhA is plural so it would only be the llagara part.

I got triangle for gara. As in triangular piece of land, so headland or triangular island might be right.

But then it could be the triangular headland (island?) that the foreigners came to., meaning it was the headland that the foreign sailors came into. Which is exactly what it was I guess.

Since Cornwall was included in that Walha link as the suffix wall, I thought I'd investigate it some more, y'know, my ancestry being Cornish, we came from Truro originally, my ancestor was a Cornish miner.

The name Cornwall comes from combining two different terms from separate languages. The Roman term for the Celtic tribe which inhabited what is now Cornwall at the time of Roman rule in Britain, Cornovii, came from a Brythonic tribal name which gave modern Cornish Kernow, also known as Corneu to the Brythons.[13] This could be from either of two sources; the common Celtic root cern, or the Latin cornu, both of which mean "horn" or "peninsula", suggestive of the shape of Cornwall's landmass. There is a problem with this theory however. At least two other known Celtic tribes bore the name Cornovii, one tribe in Caithness which may also be considered a "headland" or "horn-land", yet another, the principal tribe known to the Romans as Cornovii lived in the West Midlands and Powys areas, calling into question the derivation of the name from a peninsula (however, Celtic tribes were not necessarily permanently settled, and the Latin forms may be based on different British names).[14] Another theory suggests that the name of the Cornovii tribes may well be connected to totemic worship of the "horned god" such as the Gaulish Cernunnos or a similar totemic cult. Nevertheless, the Cornovii were sufficiently established in the present day area recognised as Cornwall for their territory to be recorded as Cornubia by 700 AD, and remained as such into the Middle Ages. The Ravenna Cosmography, of around 700, makes reference to Purocoronavis, (almost certainly a corruption of Durocornovium), 'a fort or walled settlement of the Cornovii', (unidentified, but possibly Tintagel or Carn Brea).[15][16]

During the 6th and 7th centuries, the name Cornubia became corrupted by extensive changes in the Old English language.[17] The Anglo-Saxons provided the suffix wealas, meaning "(romanised) foreigners", creating the term Corn-wealas. Some historians note that this was the word for Wales, however it is understood that the term applied instead to all Brythonic peoples and lands, who were considered foreign by the Anglo-Saxons. As Cornwall was known as West Wales (as being west of Wessex) and present-day Cumbria as North Wales during those times, the "Wales" meaning is probable.

Cern is Breton for horn, how about that. Cernunnos http://www.celtnet.org.uk/gods_c/cernwn.html

I'm a New South Welshwoman myself, that is the state of New South Wales here in Australia but I don't live there now. Apparently Captain Cook thought the East coast of Australia looked like South Wales and of course Australia was New Holland for quite a while before the English came in. Weird how names come around.

Puzz, it's not 'foreigners, it's "Walhalla".

Walhalla shows up several times in the OLB, and in it's original Nordic context.

==

Btw, this is what I copied from the site Jim quoted from:

"This is not to say that I, like Mr. Pierce, believe that all or even most of O.L.B represents authentic Northern European beliefs and histories. In fact, as it will be shown throughout these investigations, much of this work is a jumbled mess of different beliefs and stories that are better represented by the more detailed versions found elsewhere, namely Scandinavia, Germany and Saxony. Though there should not be any doubt as to the correctness of Mr. Pierce's observation on the advanced North European culture (which archaeology and other sciences have confirmed) we have reason to believe that this book is the result of one author's collections, perhaps a collector of history and lore, rather than the several "Oera Lindas" mentioned therein. Most likely it is either the product Hiddo oera Linda, who would thus have covered his tracks in the letter to his son Okke (pg. 1) by explaining how the original manuscript was damaged in a flood so he had to "transcribe it on foreign paper"; or it is the product of Liko oviro Linda, who obviously had some animosity towards the Christian church and sought to keep the work out of their hands. It is possible that this person may have been some sort of pagan revivalist."

http://www.norroena.org/research_oera_linda/chapter1.html

http://www.norroena.org/research/oera_linda_book.html

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Look, we are talking about the OLB, right?

The OLB mentions "Walhalla.gara", and suggests it's where now is Walcheren.

I checked the original text again, and it's not once, but everywhere that it's called "Walhalla.gara".

TWO words, Walhalla and Gara.

It's getting boring, but before you go dig in all kinds of etymologies, you should first check what the original text says, and not the translations.

So, the suggestion is that the name of this place is based on something with 'Walhalla", not "Walha".

Also, Walhalla is mentioned several times in the OLB, the Walhalla every pagan can tell you about, lol.

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Puzz, I hope you read my former post about Walhallagara.

To that I'd like to add that Walhallagara is once spelled as "walhalla.gara", suggesting it's created of 2 words, 'walhalla' and 'gara'.

And does Walhalla show up in the OLB? Yes, it does:

NW WIL IK SKRIWA HO THA GÊRTMANNA AND FÊLO HÊLÊNJA

FOLGAR TOBEK KÊMON.

Thach thene bodja hêde jeta-n ora brêve mith

fenin, thêrmêi bifâl-er hja skolde thåt innimma, hwand sêid-er-vnwillinglik

is thin lif bivvllad, thåt ne skil jow navt to rêkned ni wrde, thach sâhwersa

jow jowe sêle bivvlath sa ne skil jow nimmerthe to Walhâlla ne kvma, jow

sêle skil thån ovir irtha ommewâra

Now I will relate how the Geertman and many followers of Hellenia came back.

But, said he, your bodies have been defiled against your will. That you are not to blame for; but if your souls are not pure, you will never come into Walhalla. Your spirits will haunt the earth in darkness.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/olb/olb41.htm

So the name appears to point to a place, a head land, where they remembered Walhalla.

So it's no use trying to make it sound like it was some place of/for foreigners, or a place where foreigners arrived. The OLB itself calls it Walhalla.gara, and the OLB also uses the word Wahalla in it's original Nordic context (heaven, afterlife, place of the slain, and so on) in several places in the manuscript.

.

I didn't get your next post (about this) when I wrote that.

My stoooopid internet is dropping out all night. I just typed a reply to that second post and then the net dropped out.

I will check it out.

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