[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[cormac mac airt]

Well, it makes for a good story anyway.

cormac

[The Puzzler]

Well, it makes for a good story anyway.

cormac

It's history and the Greeks of the day probably did not want to acknowledge, that many of their heroes descended from barbarians of Europe, a thought that continued through for over another 2000 years and will continue to do so for a while yet it seems.

Maybe you can tell me how these things came to be in Greek myth and where else they might originate from..

- Helle, Hellesponts, eternity wheels, centaurs, Tritons and mermen(of Poland), amber, magical shaman priestesses like Medea, Colchis was probably an Aryan amber city, with a name like Aea and a Sun God, with a myth that can be found in the bogs of Denmark in the shape of the Trundholm chariot, battle axes, labrys, labyrinths, Gotland, Gods and Gauls, blonde Goddesses everywhere, blonde warriors, golden tressed Leto, mother of twin Gods, Electra meaning amber, daughter of Atlas.

Edited November 25, 2010 by The Puzzler

[SlimJim22]

It's history and the Greeks of the day probably did not want to acknowledge, that many of their heroes descended from barbarians of Europe, a thought that continued through for over another 2000 years and will continue to do so for a while yet it seems.

Maybe you can tell me how these things came to be in Greek myth and where else they might originate from..

- Helle, Hellesponts, eternity wheels, centaurs, Tritons and mermen(of Poland), amber, magical shaman priestesses like Medea, Colchis was probably an Aryan amber city, with a name like Aea and a Sun God, with a myth that can be found in the bogs of Denmark in the shape of the Trundholm chariot, battle axes, labrys, labyrinths, Gotland, Gods and Gauls, blonde Goddesses everywhere, blonde warriors, golden tressed Leto, mother of twin Gods, Electra meaning amber, daughter of Atlas.

Couple of things: Mermen are not restricted to Poland and northern Europe but turn up all over the place. The period of the greek dark ages wiped away just about everything known about the previous high culture. It is quite conceivable that after this time the new rulers sought to raise the position of their own race above that of their predecessors.

So there was this clashing of cultures and gradually the indo-european came out on top. This is not to say that various alliances weren't going on with nations like Crete, Libya and Egypt. May also explain how certain knowledge appears in unexpected places. The wide circulation of the labyrinth for example or the close parallels between between the greek pantheons compared to those of Sumer and Egypt. Greek myth is fairly clear about the veneration of strong blondes but this is most likely a form of propaganda to differentiate the Hellenic identity from the Persians and others. I am sure that Baltic nations would have had an influence but it was at a time when literacy was becoming increasingly important so no matter how advanced if Baltic nations did not have an alphabet or many to read and write it then they could effectively be written out of the picture and the credit given to Greece.

[The Puzzler]

Couple of things: Mermen are not restricted to Poland and northern Europe but turn up all over the place. The period of the greek dark ages wiped away just about everything known about the previous high culture. It is quite conceivable that after this time the new rulers sought to raise the position of their own race above that of their predecessors.

So there was this clashing of cultures and gradually the indo-european came out on top. This is not to say that various alliances weren't going on with nations like Crete, Libya and Egypt. May also explain how certain knowledge appears in unexpected places. The wide circulation of the labyrinth for example or the close parallels between between the greek pantheons compared to those of Sumer and Egypt. Greek myth is fairly clear about the veneration of strong blondes but this is most likely a form of propaganda to differentiate the Hellenic identity from the Persians and others. I am sure that Baltic nations would have had an influence but it was at a time when literacy was becoming increasingly important so no matter how advanced if Baltic nations did not have an alphabet or many to read and write it then they could effectively be written out of the picture and the credit given to Greece.

True, merpeople? are not restricted there but they are the ones I mean that came into Greece. They say Triton is said to be from there and who else has a blonde mermaid with shield and sword on their coat of arms?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw

If it wasn't on the Vistula River I'd think otherwise but since it is and that's the areas I see as having an influence I'd have to go with the original Triton and Nereids of Greek myth coming from the same area.

Yes, I agree.

[SlimJim22]

True, merpeople? are not restricted there but they are the ones I mean that came into Greece. They say Triton is said to be from there and who else has a blonde mermaid with shield and sword on their coat of arms?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw

If it wasn't on the Vistula River I'd think otherwise but since it is and that's the areas I see as having an influence I'd have to go with the original Triton and Nereids of Greek myth coming from the same area.

Yes, I agree.

Vistual river has got a strong tradition of mer-people but when does this originate from or what evidence is there at least?

The earliest attested refernces to Merpeople could be Babylon with the worship of Oannes and Dagon.

The first known mermaid stories appeared in Assyria, ca. 1000 BC. The goddess Atargatis, mother of Assyrian queen Semiramis, loved a mortal shepherd and unintentionally killed him. Ashamed, she jumped into a lake to take the form of a fish, but the waters would not conceal her divine beauty. Thereafter, she took the form of a mermaid—human above the waist, fish below—though the earliest representations of Atargatis showed her as a fish with a human head and legs, similar to the Babylonian Ea. The Greeks recognized Atargatis under the name Derketo. Prior to 546 BC, the Milesian philosopher Anaximander proposed that mankind had sprung from an aquatic species of animal. He thought that humans, with their extended infancy, could not have survived otherwise. This idea reappeared as the aquatic ape hypothesis in the twentieth century.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mermaid

This story could hve been taken from the region of the Vistula but I think these stories arose from coastal settlements that existed independentlyof each other but had a common dependence on the rivers or seas. Srtange that the word Siren appears so regularly even in Syrenka.

There is a distinction to be made between fish legs and serpent legs or do you Kerkrops was also of European origin? Personally I think Kerkrops could have been of the tribe of Dan but there is much I don't understand.

Some links that you might want to save for reference. Although heavily criticzed Graves makes plenty of saient points.

http://www.americanneopaganism.com/13794098-Robert-Graves-The-Greek-Myths.pdf

I have posted the next one before but it is well worth posting again for others. Very detailed but basically the argument is that a wtaer oriented matriarchal culture once covered much of Europe and elswhere. Maybe there is a growing place for her-story of the ancient world to be studied.

http://mermaid-williambond.blogspot.com/2008/01/chapter-six-did-women-once-rule-world.html

Also, why would they name lake Triton after a pole or other european it seems more logical thta Triton was native to Tunisia which makes sense considering the close proximity of the Atlas mts and Africas much wetter pre history.

Even today there are freedivers off the Faroe islands so mermaids are literally found everywhere so really I don't know.

[Abramelin]

Lol, wrong thread.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

KÁT

(OLB P.52-53)

KÁT JEFTA KÁTER-INNE ALSA HEETE THJU FAM

Kát or Káterinne the Fam was called

THEER BURCH-FAM TO GODA-BURCH WAS.

that was Burchfam at Godaburch.

KÁT WAS STOLTE ÀND HÁCH-FARANDE

Kát was proud and high-flying,

THEERVMBE NE LEET HJU NEEN REED NI FOLLISTAR

therefore she would not ask advise or followers

ANDA MODER NE FREEIA.

from the Mother.

. . .

(P.54-55)

WODIN WAS STERIK WOST ÀND WIGANDLIK

Wodin was strong, fierce and brave,

MEN HI NAS NAVT KLÁR-SJANDE.

but he was nor clearseeing.

THEER THRVCH WÀRTH-I IN HJARA MEERA FVNGEN

Through there he was caught in their web

ÀND THRVCH THENE MÁGY KRONETH.

and crowned through the Magy.

RJU FEELO STJUR-AR ÀND LANDWEERAR

Very many navigators and soldiers

THAM THISSE KEER NAVT NE SINDE,

that did not like this turn,

BRUIDON STOLKES HINNE

left silently

KÁT MITH NEEMANDE.

taking Kát with them.

MEN KÁT THEER NAVT TOFARA THEERE MODER

But Kát who refused to appear before the Mother

NER TOFARA THEERE MEENA ACHT FOR-SKINE NILDE,

nor before the general meeting,

JOMPADE WR BORD.

jumped over board.

THA KEEM STORNE-WIND

Then came stormwind

ÀND FEETERE THA SKEEPA

and drove the ships down

VPPA SKORRA FONNA DEENE-MARKUM DEL

up the shores of Deenemarkum

SVNDER ENKEL MÀN TO MISTANE.

without missing a single man.

ÀFTERNEEI HÀVON HJA

After that they have

THA STREET KÁT’S-GAT HEETEN.

named the street Kátsgat.

(to be continued)

Edited November 26, 2010 by Otharus

[Otharus]

KÁT

CHATTI

TACITVS - GERMANIA

(translation Church & Brodribb)

29

OMNIVM HARVM GENTIVM VIRTVTE PRAECIPVI

BATAVI NON MVLTVM EX RIPA,

ED INSVLAM RHENI AMNIS COLVNT,

Foremost among all these nations in valour,

the Batavi occupy an island within the Rhine

and but a small portion of the bank.

CHATTORVM QVONDAM POPVLVS

ET SEDITIONE DOMESTICA

IN EAS SEDES TRANSGRESSVS,

IN QVIBVS PARS ROMANI IMPERII FIERENT.

Formerly a tribe of the Chatti,

they were forced by internal dissension to migrate

to their present settlements

and there become a part of the Roman Empire.

MANET HONOS ET ANTIQVAE SOSIETATIS INSIGNE;

They yet retain the honourable badge of an ancient alliance;

NAM NAC TRIBVTIS CONTEMNVNTVR

NEC PVBLICANVS ATTERIT;

for they are not insulted by tribute,

nor ground down by the tax-gatherer.

EXEMPTI ONERIBVS ET CONLATIONIBVS

ET TANTVM IN VSVM PROELIORVM SEPOSITI,

VELVT TELA ATQVE ARMA,

BELLIS RESERVANTVR.

Free from the usual burdens and contributions,

and set apart for fighting purposes,

like a magazine of arms,

we reserve them for our wars.

...

30

ULTRA HOS CHATTI

INITIVM SEDIS AB HERCYNIO SALTV INCOHANT,

NON ITA EFFVSIS AC PALVSTRIBVS LOCIS,

VT CETERAE CIVITATES,

IN QVAS GERMANIA PATESCIT;

Beyond them are the Chatti,

whose settlements begin at the Hercynian forest,

where the country is not so open and marshy

as in the other cantons

into which Germany stretches.

DVRANT SIQVIDEM COLLES,

PAVLATIM RARESCVNT,

ET CHATTOS SVOS SALTVS HERCYNIVS PROSEQVITVR

SIMVL ATQVE DEPONIT.

They are found where there are hills,

and with them grow less frequent,

for the Hercynian forest keeps close

till it has seen the last of its native Chatti.

DVRIORA GENTI CORPORA,

STRICTI ARTVS,

MINAX VVLTVS

ET MAIOR ANIMI VIGOR.

Hardy frames,

close-knit limbs,

fierce countenances,

and a peculiarly vigorous courage,

mark the tribe.

MVLTVM, VT INTER GERMANOS,

RATIONIS AC SOLLERTIAE:

For Germans,

they have much intelligence and sagacity;

PRAEPONERE ELECTOS,

AVDIRE PRAEPOSITOS,

NOSSE ORDINES,

INTELLEGERE OCCASIONES,

DIFFERRE IMPETVS,

DISPONERE DIEM,

VALLARE NOCTEM,

they promote their picked men to power,

and obey those whom they promote;

they keep their ranks,

note their opportunities,

check their impulses,

portion out the day,

intrench themselves by night,

FORTVNAM INTER DVBIA,

VIRTVTEM INTER CERTA NVMERARE,

regard fortune as a doubtful,

valour as an unfailing resource;

QVODQVE RARISSIMVM

NEC NISI RATIONE DISCIPLINAE CONCESSVM,

PLVS REPONERE IN DVCE

QVAM IN EXERCITV.

and what is most unusual,

and only given to systematic discipline,

they rely more on the general

than on the army.

OMNE ROBVR IN PEDITE,

QVEM SVPER ARMA FERRAMENTIS

QVOQVE ET COPIIS ONERANT:

Their whole strength is in their infantry,

which, in addition to its arms,

is laden with iron tools and provisions.

ALIOS AD PROELIVM IRE VIDEAS,

CHATTOS AD BELLVM.

Other tribes you see going to battle,

the Chatti to a campaign.

RARI EXCVRSVS ET FORTVITA PVGNA.

Seldom do they engage in mere raids and casual encounters.

EQVESTRIVM SANE VIRIVM ID PROPRIVM,

CITO PARARE VICTORIAM,

CITO CEDERE:

It is indeed the peculiarity of a cavalry force

quickly to win

and as quickly to yield a victory.

VELOCITAS IVXTA FORMIDINEM,

CVNCTATIO PROPIOR CONSTANTIAE EST.

Fleetness and timidity go together;

deliberateness is more akin to steady courage.

31

ET ALIIS GERMANORVM POPVLIS

VSVRPATVM RARO ET PRIVATA CVIVSQVE

AVDENTIA APVD CHATTOS IN CONSENSVM VERTIT,

A practice,

rare among the other German tribes,

and simply characteristic of individual prowess,

has become general among the Chatti,

VT PRIMVM ADOLEVERINT,

CRINEM BARBAMQVE SVBMITTERE,

NEC NISI HOSTE CAESO EXVERE VOTIVVM

OBLIGATVMQVE VIRTVTI ORIS HABITVM.

of letting the hair and beard grow

as soon as they have attained manhood,

and not till they have slain a foe

laying aside that peculiar aspect

which devotes and pledges them to valour.

SVPER SANGVINEM ET SPOLIA

REVELANT FRONTEM,

Over the spoiled and bleeding enemy

they show their faces once more;

SEQVE TVM DEMVM

PRETIA NASCENDI

RETTVLISSE DIGNOSQVE PATRIA

AC PARENTIBVS FERVNT:

then, and not till then,

proclaiming that they have discharged

the obligations of their birth,

and proved themselves worthy of their country

and of their parents.

IGNAVIS ET IMBELLIBVS MANET SQVALOR.

The coward and the unwarlike remain unshorn.

FORTISSIMVS QVISQVE FERREVM INSVPER ANVLVM

(IGNOMINIOSVM ID GENTI)

The bravest of them also wear an iron ring

(which otherwise is a mark of disgrace among the people)

VELVT VINCVLVM GESTAT,

DONEC SE CAEDE HOSTIS ABSOLVAT.

until they have released themselves

by the slaughter of a foe.

PLVRIMIS CHATTORVM HIC PLACET HABITVS,

Most of the Chatti delight in these fashions.

IAMQVE CANENT INSIGNES

ET HOSTIBVS

SIMVL SVISQVE MONSTRATI.

Even hoary-headed men are distinguished by them,

and are thus conspicuous

alike to enemies and to fellow-countrymen.

OMNIVM PENES HOS INITIA PVGNARVM;

To begin the battle always rests with them;

HAEC PRIMA SEMPER ACIES, VISV NOVA;

they form the first line, an unusual spectacle.

NAM NE IN PACE

QVIDEM VVLTV

MITIORE MANSVESCVNT.

Nor even in peace

do they assume

a more civilised aspect.

NVLLI DOMVS AVT AGER AVT ALIQVA CVRA:

They have no home or land or occupation;

PROVT AD QVEMQVE VENERE,

ALVNTVR,

PRODIGI ALIENI,

CONTEMPTORES SVI,

they are supported by whomsoever they visit,

as lavish of the property of others

as they are regardless of their own,

DONEC EXSANGVIS SENECTVS

TAM DVRAE VIRTVTI IMPARES FACIAT.

till at length the feebleness of age

makes them unequal to so stern a valour.

(to be continued)

General request: Please quote only what's relevant when replying.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Otharus

[Otharus]

CHATTI

The Frisians and the Dutch

always seem to have had a special liking

for big cats (dutch: KATTEN).

"LAWA" (Lion) became "LAW"

Edited November 26, 2010 by Otharus

[Otharus]

... a special liking for big cats

(dutch: KATTEN).

Westfriesland and Holland: image on shield.

Signed:

Houtbaai, Kaapstad, Zuidafrika

26.11.10

Jan Ott, MSc

Edited November 26, 2010 by Otharus

[Otharus]

"LAWA" (Lion) became "LAW"

... and "TEX" (Text or Testament) became "TAX".

Edited November 26, 2010 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

The Frisians and the Dutch

always seem to have had a special liking

for big cats (dutch: KATTEN).

"LAWA" (Lion) became "LAW"

Not only the Dutch and Frisians...

[Abramelin]

... and "TEX" (Text or Testament) became "TAX".

So the next is wrong, according to you:

law:

O.E. lagu (pl. laga, comb. form lah-), from O.N. *lagu "law," collective pl. of lag "layer, measure, stroke," lit. "something laid down or fixed," from P.Gmc. *lagan "put, lay" (see lay (v.)). Replaced O.E. æ and gesetnes, which had the same sense development as law. Cf. also statute, from L. statuere; Ger. Gesetz "law," from O.H.G. gisatzida; Lith. istatymas, from istatyti "set up, establish." Law and order have been coupled since 1796.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=law

===========

tax (v.) :

late 13c., from O.Fr. taxer "impose a tax" (13c.), from L. taxare "evaluate, estimate, assess, handle," also "censure, charge," probably a frequentative form of tangere "to touch" (see tangent). Sense of "burden, put a strain on" first recorded 1670s; that of "censure, reprove" is from 1560s. Use in Luke ii for Gk. apographein "to enter on a list, enroll" is due to Tyndale. The noun is recorded from early 14c. Tax shelter is attested from 1961; taxpayer from 1816.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=tax&searchmode=none

[Abramelin]

In Puzzler's "Giants in history" thread I had a bit of fun with the origin of the word "nephilim" :

I think you all are wrong....

Nephilim - following Oera Linda Book etymology - was of course no one else but the big sister of Nef Tunis: Nef Hille, aka Hiltje. who travelled along with her brother to the eastern Mediterranean.

She was at least as tall as Grutte Pier and Adela (7 feet).

And maybe you or someone else might say that 'nef' means nephew, not niece, so Hille/Hiltje could not have had 'nef' in front of her name. But there also was a 'Nef Inka', and as far as I know, Inge, Inga, is a Nordic female first name. The OLB 'Inka' is just a nice twist of that girls's name to make us think of the Incas (Inkas in Dutch), because he went west while Nef Teun went east, entering the Mediterranean.

.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

All very interesting Otharus.

[Otharus]

KÁT JEFTA KÁTER-INNE ALSA HEETE THJU FAM

THEER BURCH-FAM TO GODA-BURCH WAS.

KÁT JEFTA KÁTER-INNE ALSA HEETE THJU FAM

Ott: Kát or Káterinne the Fam was called

Jensma: maagd (virgin)

THEER BURCH-FAM TO GODA-BURCH WAS.

Ott: that was Burchfam at Godaburch.

Jensma: burchtmaagd

[Otharus]

THEER THRVCH WÀRTH-I IN HJARA MEERA FVNGEN

Through there he was caught in their web

Revision: lakes

Dutch: meren

Edited November 27, 2010 by Otharus

[Otharus]

WODIN WAS STERIK WOST ÀND WIGANDLIK

Wodin was strong, fierce and brave

or: sterich/ stark, woost and wigandlike

Edited November 27, 2010 by Otharus

[Otharus]

KÁT JEFTA KÁTER-INNE

Kát or Káterinne

This ambiguous name can mean (in dutch):

kater-inne = young fe-male cat

or:

kat-er-inne = cat-in-her(e)

Edited November 27, 2010 by Otharus

[Otharus]

WODIN WAS STERIK WOST ÀND WIGANDLIK

The likely meaning of this name is:

wood-in

Dutch: woud-in or woed(e)-in

[Otharus]

BRUIDON STOLKES HINNE

left silently

would

brided still away

make sense?

[Otharus]

ULTRA HOS CHATTI

INITIVM SEDIS AB HERCYNIO SALTV INCOHANT

Beyond them are the Chatti,

whose settlements begin at the Hercynian forest

'wordplay'

CHATTI

Greek: καθαροί (katharoi) = pure ones

Edited November 27, 2010 by Otharus

[Otharus]

CHATTI

PRAEPONERE ELECTOS,

AVDIRE PRAEPOSITOS,

they promote their picked men to power,

and obey those whom they promote;

...

QVODQVE RARISSIMVM

NEC NISI RATIONE DISCIPLINAE CONCESSVM,

PLVS REPONERE IN DVCE

QVAM IN EXERCITV.

and what is most unusual,

and only given to systematic discipline,

they rely more on the general

than on the army.

It's not unusual if you have

good ways

of picking the best

and promoting them to power.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Otharus

[Otharus]

Fragment of the TXT file I made

to round all my posts up.

PM me your emailadres

if you'd like

to have the whole file.

WORDPLAY

Opening

pandoras

book

by

Otharus

********* 102/2022 *******

Posted 27.11.10 - 07:56 PM

Othar, 26.11.10 - 11:01 AM

ULTRA HOS CHATTI

INITIVM SEDIS AB HERCYNIO

SALTV INCOHANT

Beyond them are the

Chatti,

whose settlements begin

at the Hercynian forest

'wordplay'

CHATTI

Greek:

KATHAPOI (katharoi)

= pure ones

********* 101/2021 *******

Posted 27.11.10 - 03:14 PM

Othar, 26.11.10 - 10:47 AM

BRUIDON STOLKES HINNE

left silently

would

"brided still away"

make sense?

********* 100/2020 *******

Posted 27.11.10 - 02:44 PM

Othar, 26.11.10 - 10:47 AM

WODIN WAS STERIK WOST

ÀND WIGANDLIK

The likely meaning

of this name is:

wood-in

Dutch:

woud-in or woed(e)-in

********* 099/2019 *******

Posted 27.11.10 - 02:23 PM

Othar, 26.11.10 - 10:47 AM

KÁT JEFTA KÁTER-INNE

Kát or Káterinne

This ambiguous name

can mean (in dutch):

kater-inne

= young fe-male cat

or:

kat-er-inne

= cat-in-her(e)

Edited November 28, 2010 by Otharus

[Otharus]

CHATTI

QVODQVE RARISSIMVM

and what is most unusual

RAR

ISSI

MVM

rare - more rare - most rare

Dutch:

raar - raarder - raarst