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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


Riaan

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The lamb translation though got me thinking.

So, far away (faro) can be taken to mean far (sheep) in Swedish but far in Gurtnish means lamb.

So, the far away end of an island could be misinterpreted or interpreted to mean sheep or lamb.

The furthest part of the island was given to Gadeiros, or in Greek Eumolos, in Greek Eumolos means, sheep.

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You don't want me to start another thread do you?

The island of Faro could be Pharos of the myth imo and it has nothing to do with Alewyn's Faroe Islands. I just gave a tonne of reasons why. It's the etomology I just gave that makes the sense, read my answer to Leo, since I place Faro and Gotland right in the heart of the Freya motherland.

I do know your Faro has nothing to do with Alewyn's Faroe Islands, but I remembered he talked about it as soon as you started about Faro.

You no doubt know what 'Gotland' means, but an OLB interpretation would be 'Land of the Gods"; it's filled to the brim with those wordplays.

Then we have Aland >> OLB-twist >> Atland !! Proof !!

Another one: Hel(i)goland >> Holy Land >> Atlantis City ! Hurray !!

Btw, according to the OLB your Gotland wasn't the center of Frya's empire. The southern part of Sweden is suggested as another, and later, place of settlement of a 'burghtmaagd' and/or 'colony'.

But you can check all that now in the book you have.

--

EDIT:

Must be me, but if I finally had the book I had been discussing for 34 pages over a period of several weeks, I would sit down, read it in one go, and only then come back and continue with the discussion.

And if I had the money - I am sort of very short on money right now - I would have bought the book myself. Despite the fact that I am sceptical, I am also incurably curious about what Alewyn has written in 300 pages.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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I do know your Faro has nothing to do with Alewyn's Faroe Islands, but I remembered he talked about it as soon as you started about Faro.

You no doubt know what 'Gotland' means, but an OLB interpretation would be 'Land of the Gods"; it's filled to the brim with those wordplays.

Then we have Aland >> OLB-twist >> Atland !! Proof !!

Another one: Hel(i)goland >> Holy Land >> Atlantis City ! Hurray !!

Btw, according to the OLB your Gotland wasn't the center of Frya's empire. The southern part of Sweden is suggested as another, and later, place of settlement of a 'burghtmaagd' and/or 'colony'.

But you can check all that now in the book you have.

--

EDIT:

Must be me, but if I finally had the book I had been discussing for 34 pages over a period of several weeks, I would sit down, read it in one go, and only then come back and continue with the discussion.

And if I had the money - I am sort of very short on money right now - I would have bought the book myself. Despite the fact that I am sceptical, I am also incurably curious about what Alewyn has written in 300 pages.

.

Call me self-indulgent but I was off discussing Alewyn's opinions when he left the thread, although I'd be happy if he returned.

I have developed my own interpretations but probably isn't really on topic now. Maybe I will start my own thread.

I have studied the texts of the OLB carefully (in parts, not all yet) and my maps, atlas's etc and I place them from the far east of the East Sea (Baltic)into Eastern Sweden including Aland Islands, Gotland and Faro south then (again not the north side of the western board of Sweden or in South Norway or Jutland at all, but I do think some were up in Northern Sweden, Northern Norway and Lapland) then into Denmark, especially the south west around the German bight and down into Germany some, the areas change over time and as people move so it's very hard to really pin down one area, their movements should be taken into account. Down to where Friesland sits, to the Middle.se, in Friesland of course.

That gives you the North Sea on your west, the Baltic sea on your east, the middle sea on your south and the German forests would be your western land border.

I'm busting to get into it but I'll that when I settle for bed later.

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Call me self-indulgent but I was off discussing Alewyn's opinions when he left the thread, although I'd be happy if he returned.

I have developed my own interpretations but probably isn't really on topic now. Maybe I will start my own thread.

I have studied the texts of the OLB carefully (in parts, not all yet) and my maps, atlas's etc and I place them from the far east of the East Sea (Baltic)into Eastern Sweden including Aland Islands, Gotland and Faro south then (again not the north side of the western board of Sweden or in South Norway or Jutland at all, but I do think some were up in Northern Sweden, Northern Norway and Lapland) then into Denmark, especially the south west around the German bight and down into Germany some, the areas change over time and as people move so it's very hard to really pin down one area, their movements should be taken into account. Down to where Friesland sits, to the Middle.se, in Friesland of course.

That gives you the North Sea on your west, the Baltic sea on your east, the middle sea on your south and the German forests would be your western land border.

I'm busting to get into it but I'll that when I settle for bed later.

OK, but before you go to sleep, maybe you'd like to have a peek at this site of Iman Wilkins; no doubt you will like it...

http://www.troy-in-england.co.uk/

Or this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictys_Cretensis

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OK, but before you go to sleep, maybe you'd like to have a peek at this site of Iman Wilkins; no doubt you will like it...

http://www.troy-in-england.co.uk/

Or this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictys_Cretensis

Yep, thanks.

The Faro Lighthouse is called the Faro Fyr.

Fyr, another reference to lamps and fire beacons. Fire, a lighthouse, as I said before how eternal flames can be related to this aspect.

Faro - Pharoah...so isn't it when it's a capital we change from F to Ph, so a change from Faro to Pharo in India, say, wouldn't be out of the norm...Faro - Pharisee - Pharoah or even Finn-icians. Faro's - Pharos

It's late, my mind is wandering. Night all.

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Yep, thanks.

The Faro Lighthouse is called the Faro Fyr.

Fyr, another reference to lamps and fire beacons. Fire, a lighthouse, as I said before how eternal flames can be related to this aspect.

Faro - Pharoah...so isn't it when it's a capital we change from F to Ph, so a change from Faro to Pharo in India, say, wouldn't be out of the norm...Faro - Pharisee - Pharoah or even Finn-icians. Faro's - Pharos

It's late, my mind is wandering. Night all.

F and PH are simply interchangable, it's nothing more than a different way of writing the same sound (consonant).

According to linguistics the p can shift to f :

Middle English fier, from Old English fȳr, from Proto-Germanic *fuwer, fwīr (compare West Frisian fjoer, Dutch vuur, German Feuer, Danish fyr), from Proto-Indo-European *péh₂ur (“‘fire’”).

Cf. Hittite paḫḫur, Umbrian pir, Tocharian A/B por/puwar, Czech pȳř (“‘hot ashes’”), Ancient Greek πῦρ (pŷr), “‘fire’”), Armenian հուր (hur), “‘fire’”), հնոց (hnoc’), “‘oven’”). This was an inanimate noun, whose animate counterpart was Proto-Indo-European *Hn̥gʷnis. Etymological twin to pyre (“‘funeral pile’”), from same Proto-Indo-European root.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Fire

And now you are just adding any word starting with an F, lol. What do the Finns have to do with all this? Just because their name starts with an F ??

You forgot the Farsi, lol (Persians). And what was their religion called by other people (before the time of Islam?) : Fire worshippers.

This is about (proto-) Indo European, a language that has spread from somewhere above/between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea to north, east, south and west of the area, many thousands of years ago.

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F and PH are simply interchangable, it's nothing more than a different way of writing the same sound (consonant).

According to linguistics the p can shift to f :

Middle English fier, from Old English fȳr, from Proto-Germanic *fuwer, fwīr (compare West Frisian fjoer, Dutch vuur, German Feuer, Danish fyr), from Proto-Indo-European *péh₂ur (“‘fire’”).

Cf. Hittite paḫḫur, Umbrian pir, Tocharian A/B por/puwar, Czech pȳř (“‘hot ashes’”), Ancient Greek πῦρ (pŷr), “‘fire’”), Armenian հուր (hur), “‘fire’”), հնոց (hnoc’), “‘oven’”). This was an inanimate noun, whose animate counterpart was Proto-Indo-European *Hn̥gʷnis. Etymological twin to pyre (“‘funeral pile’”), from same Proto-Indo-European root.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Fire

And now you are just adding any word starting with an F, lol. What do the Finns have to do with all this? Just because their name starts with an F ??

You forgot the Farsi, lol (Persians). And what was their religion called by other people (before the time of Islam?) : Fire worshippers.

This is about (proto-) Indo European, a language that has spread from somewhere above/between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea to north, east, south and west of the area, many thousands of years ago.

English words derived from Greek usually have the ph sound instead of an F. Asia generally only has the ph, no F in their alphabet. Armenia has a h sound.

Here is where my idea comes in:

Close similarities between Ancient Greek and Vedic Sanskrit suggest that both Proto-Greek and Proto-Indo-Iranian were still quite similar to either late Proto-Indo-European, which would place the latter somewhere in the late 4th millennium BC, or a post-PIE Graeco-Aryan proto-language

This idea doesn't have much support yet but it is a possibility nevertheless.

I'm looking at proto-Greek language because I am looking at a time frame before Greece was populated by anyone from Asia Minor because then we find the Armenian connection. Prior to that when Greece was inhabited by people from Europe, prior to Mycenaean Linear B language.

Greek is a Centum language, which would place a possible Graeco-Aryan protolanguage before Satemization, making it identical to late PIE. Proto-Greek does appear to have been affected by the general trend of palatalization characteristic of the Satem group, evidenced for example by the (post-Mycenaean) change of labiovelars into dentals before e (e.g. kʷe > te "and"), but the Satemizing influence appears to have reached Greek only after it had lost the palatovelars (i.e. after it had already become a Centum language).

The primary sound changes separating Proto-Greek from the Proto-Indo-European language included:

Aspiration of /s/ -> /h/ intervocalically

De-voicing of voiced aspirates.

Dissimilation of aspirates (Grassmann's law), possibly post-Mycenaean.

word-initial y- (not Hy-) is strengthened to dy- (later ζ-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Greek_language

That above confirms what I think. Contrary to what is often though, Greek may not stem exclusively from proto-Indo-European in the Kurgan hypothesis but may have an underlying Aryan base language. Probably why in the myths the Lacadaemonians (Spartans) are related to Persians.

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Oops, other link for post above http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Greek_language

To add to that I will add this really good explanation, I hope you read it, that the Venetic Language stems from a Northern Finn0-Urgric language. I follow these speakers from Gotland to Estonia and if I can locate them as being in Italy it all comes together much better. The gypsy and Finn branch of Finda's people they would be.

Homer in his Iliad, first wrote about a people named Eneti or Henetoi who were located at Paphlagonia on the southwest coast of the Black Sea, who came to the aid of Troy (around 1200 BC). This name Eneti continued to appear in Greek texts, for more than a millenium, describing a people who appear to have been, to the Greeks, a source of tin and amber.

Because archeology shows that Baltic amber came down to the civilizations in Asia Minor and Egypt, even before the rise of Mycenian Greece, even if clear evidence of people called Eneti being handlers of northern amber comes from the colonies of Eneti in northern Italy, we are justified in assuming amber was also handled earlier by Eneti at the Black Sea, since river routes from the east Baltic sources of amber reached the Black Sea easily.

Archeology shows an abundance of early trade amber in the Gulf of Riga, and apparently travelling down the Dneiper River to the Black Sea; thus we can assume that the original Black Sea Eneti were a southern colony of Dneiper traders who carried amber and other goods south from the Baltic. It's possible there was a major source of amber in the Gulf of Riga, which became used up.

Since the culture of the east Baltic region at the time, the archeological "Comb Ceramic" culture, has been associated with the Finnic peoples, we can conclude that the Eneti were Finnic, and that their name came from the same origins - the northern boat peoples, reaching back to the UINI, UINU.

Let's take the name UINI, which is singlar. Ptolemy and other Greek writers would have called these people Phinnoi. If we now pluralize UINI and produce UINIT (By the way the Inuit language creates the plural with the -T just like Finnic), then we can see that the Greeks would then have called them Phinnitoi . Note how close this is to Henetoi. The only major difference is the use of the E instead of I; but as we said above, if the original UINI language did not distinguish between an I and an E, then Henetoi can describe UINIT who just happened to speak with a lower dialect. (Their high vowel sounding more like an E, their middle vowel more like an O, and their lower vowel sounding like a U) In other words for the ancient period E and I are the same for the people described, even if Greek was by then discriminating between E and I and hence writing down whatever the source person's dialect was producing.

It seems therefore that the amber gatherers travelled south with the very same UINI name, in plural UINIT. (Possibly there were several clans involved in the trading activity, calling for pluralization). Under the influences of languages at the Black Sea, they lowered their vowels or began to distinguish between E and I, given that the peoples down there were doing so. (Sumerian, for example distinguished between E and I)

The above section, and the map, imply that the peoples called Eneti or Veneti (Weneti) by Greeks and Romans, originated in the north, originally as amber traders bringing Baltic amber south. While few people will argue that the original boat-using hunting peoples across Northern Europe are the ultimate source of Finno-Ugric languages, some may question identifying these Veneti peoples of southern ancient civilizations as boat peoples derived from the northern aboriginals. This idea is strongly opposed by scholars of various other nationalities close to the regions in which these people were established, who have other ideas which connect their nationalities to these ancient peoples. There is no basis for the opposition other than citing the old Finno-Ugric origins theory (see background:FINNO-UGRIC LANGUAGES: Origins in the Aboriginal Languages of Prehistoric Europe for more about the new understandings on the languages originating from the UINI boat-peoples.) which placed the Finno-Ugric peoples in the east, thereby excluding them from participation in Europe's evolution. While new thinking on the subject (see THE ORIGINS AND EXPANSIONS OF BOAT-ORIENTED WAYS OF LIFE : Basic Introduction to the Theory, ) strengthen the arguments based on archeology and linguistics, the most significant hurdle is represented by the inscriptions made by the Eneti/Veneti of northern Italy between 500-0 BC. So far the inscriptions have been approached as if the language was Indo-European. To clinch the UINI origins theory, it is necessary to investigate the inscriptions from the point of view of the language being Finnic. For my investigation of the Venetic languages, proving it was Finnic, see the section on the VENETIC LANGUAGE.

http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uini-name.html

I say the Persians were also part of a Northern European influence contingent as were the early pre-2nd wave of Mycenaean Greeks, Etruscans and Venetic speakers.

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Some more on it all - The Finnic-Urgic languages:

Proto-Finno-Ugric is the reconstructed protolanguage for the Finno-Ugric languages, that is the ancestor of the Baltic-Finnic languages such as Finnish, Estonian and Karelian, the Ugric languages, whose best known example is Hungarian, and all other Uralic languages excluding the Samoyedic languages. The parent language is Proto-Uralic, from which Proto-Finno-Ugric and Proto-Samoyedic had split. This classification is not without problems; Proto-Finno-Ugric may also be interpreted as a geographical grouping of Proto-Uralic dialects, because the differences are few. It has been suggested that the area where Proto-Finno-Ugric was spoken reached between the Baltic Sea and the Ural mountains.---

The first mention of a Uralic people is in Tacitus' Germania,[6] mentioning the Fenni (usually interpreted as referring to the Sami) and two other possibly Finno-Ugric tribes living in the farthest reaches of Scandinavia. In the late 15th century, European scholars noted the resemblance of the names Hungaria and Yugria, the names of settlements east of the Ural. They assumed a connection, but did not look into linguistic evidence. In 1671, Swedish scholar Georg Stiernhielm commented on the similarities of Lapp, Estonian and Finnish, and also on a few similar words in Finnish and Hungarian, while the German scholar Martin Vogel tried to establish a relationship between Finnish, Lapp and Hungarian. These two authors were thus the first to outline what was to become the classification of a Finno-Ugric family. In 1717, Swedish professor Olof Rudbeck proposed about 100 etymologies connecting Finnish and Hungarian, of which about 40 are still considered valid (Collinder, 1965). In the same year, the German scholar Johann Georg von Eckhart (published in Leibniz' Collectanea Etymologica) for the first time proposed a relation to the Samoyedic languages.

By 1770, all constituents of Finno-Ugric were known, almost 20 years before the traditional starting-point of Indo-European studies. Nonetheless, these relationships were not widely accepted. Especially Hungarian intellectuals were not interested in the theory and preferred to assume connections with Turkic tribes, an attitude characterized by Ruhlen (1987) as due to "the wild unfettered Romanticism of the epoch". Still, in spite of the hostile climate, the Hungarian Jesuit János Sajnovics suggested a relationship of Hungarian and Lapp (Sami) in 1770, and in 1799, the Hungarian Sámuel Gyarmathi published the most complete work on Finno-Ugric to that date.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_languages

Finda's line. Sami to India connection. Estonians gypsies, Hungarian Magyars.

NOTE - Especially Hungarian intellectuals were not interested in the theory and preferred to assume connections with Turkic tribes, an attitude characterized by Ruhlen (1987) as due to "the wild unfettered Romanticism of the epoch".

Edited by The Puzzler
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Slim, something you might find interesting if you haven't already been there is the Kundalini is similar in comparison to the snake wrapped around the staff, it could be an early form of Kundalini - coiled snake, a process of :Kundalini (kuṇḍalinī, Sanskrit: कुण्डलिनी) literally means coiled. In yoga, a "corporeal energy"[1] - an unconscious, instinctive or libidinal force or Shakti, lies coiled at the base of the spine.[2][3][4] It is envisioned either as a goddess or else as a sleeping serpent hence a number of English renderings of the term such as 'serpent power'. The kundalini resides in the sacrum bone in three and a half coils and has been described as a residual power of pure desire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini

Kundalini (kuṇḍalinī, Sanskrit: कुण्डलिनी) literally means coiled. In yoga, a "corporeal energy"[1] - an unconscious, instinctive or libidinal force or Shakti, lies coiled at the base of the spine.[2][3][4] It is envisioned either as a goddess or else as a sleeping serpent hence a number of English renderings of the term such as 'serpent power'. The kundalini resides in the sacrum bone in three and a half coils and has been described as a residual power of pure desire.[5]

The snake coiled around the staff interests me a lot. Asclepius has one, the early medicine man who could revive the dead. He also used a snake, by kissing a snake this symbolises the original way he did this. Even today we see footage on YouTube of Indian women placing their babies near cobras to get a 'kiss' - bite. We don't understand these most ancient rituals today.

It equals the way to eternal life, as much as we don't understand, or the quintessential consciousness experience.

The strange (or maybe not) thing is, Imhotep is an equal to Asclepius in his role as medicine practioner of the time, keeping chaos at bay, also a form of Atlas imo, as he keep the chaos as bay he stops the Heavens from uniting with the Earth. See Imhotep Wiki for this explanation.

So, therefore, I see the pyramids as a form of Atlas, keeping the Heavens from uniting with the Earth. Maybe then, a consciousness bringer, vehicle.

If we can connect the pyramids with Kundalini in the sense of a coiled snake around a staff, the image of Asclepius, the Greek version of Imhotep, the designer of pyramids, we might have a connection.

Combine that with the Finno-Urgic/Sami/Lapp language link in India and maybe we will find Egypt's main cult (ure) came from India (from Northern Europe) and Imhotep may have been Indian or of Indian lineage into Egypt. OK, sounds far fetched but seriously, think about it and see the connection, India Ethiopia to Egypt as the Egyptians say their Gods came from Ethiopia.

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If you think this is some obscure connection, think again - I recalled seeing coins with Salus on it - Salus is the daughter of Asclepius:

Salus was a minor goddess, the daughter of Aesculapius, the god of healing, whose staff, with a snake coiled round it, is symbolic of the practice of medicine. Their Greek equivalents were Aklepios and Hygeia. Her role in the pantheon was to feed and care for her father's sacred snakes and act as his assistant. She was worshipped as being responsible for the welfare, not just of individuals, but of the people as a whole. Her name in Greek and Roman comes down to us in such words as 'hygiene,' 'salve' and 'salubrious,' and even 'salute' and 'safe.'

repub_012bf.jpg

You can see her almost kissing the snake on the coin Roman c. 49BC. She wears a (laurel)wreath on her head.

I also recall seeing from Catal Hayuk (?) men with a tuft of hair that could have been a snake and might even have some very ancient connection but Salus and her connection to Asclepius is very old, he comes from far back in myth, a son of Apollo, the zodiac sign of Ophiuchus, I rave about him heaps.

Salus coin link: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/moonmoth/reverse_salus.html

Which reminds me of a Cretan connection.

Remember this painting? We are all looking at Ariadne being saved from Naxos by Bacchus (Dionysus) so why the hell is Asclepius taking up half the painting and why does Titian have him there to start with? Why is he associated with Dionysus? (I have my own ideas and he has a definite role here.)

663px-Titian_Bacchus_and_Ariadne.jpg

Edited by The Puzzler
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If we can connect the pyramids with Kundalini in the sense of a coiled snake around a staff, the image of Asclepius, the Greek version of Imhotep, the designer of pyramids, we might have a connection.

Hi Puzzler, when i read the above .. i remembered this Kirlian Photography image of energy produced by the geometric shape of a pyramid. The one with the spirals above was somehow induced using a Tesla coil... so maybe it doesn't count.. just wanted to show it to you anyway. I know Slim will like it :)

Dang! the one that was just normal pyramid shapes producing an energy beam above was too big to upload.... But it's a fact that pyramids do produce a beam of energy above themselves.

post-86645-079989800 1279973426_thumb.jp

Edited by lightly
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I think I will have to wait till someone here has actually read Alewyn's book, and is willing to discuss it.

Btw, Puzz, I read your post about the Veneti and the boat people (from the .paabo site), I and regularly talked about it in the Doggerland thread.

I also said that there were well established amber routes across Europe, and most by people from the Baltic (no surprize: that's where most of the amber is found).

Ok, the book... maybe I will ask my brother to buy it...

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Hi Puzzler, when i read the above .. i remembered this Kirlian Photography image of energy produced by the geometric shape of a pyramid. The one with the spirals above was somehow induced using a Tesla coil... so maybe it doesn't count.. just wanted to show it to you anyway. I know Slim will like it :)

Dang! the one that was just normal pyramid shapes producing an energy beam above was too big to upload.... But it's a fact that pyramids do produce a beam of energy above themselves.

post-86645-079989800 1279973426_thumb.jp

Hi lightly :)

Yes, the cadeucus, double helix shape or single snake on the staff seems to permeate throughout ancient history. That link I found between the snake wrapped around the staff, Moses, Egypt and then India in a sacred form could be quite interesting. Cool picture. The idea I have is that Apollo could have had this representation as he also had a snake on a staff or often a broken column we see it but the meaning is the same, Apollo possessed this knowledge, as in myth he is often equated with medicine and knowledge.

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I think I will have to wait till someone here has actually read Alewyn's book, and is willing to discuss it.

Btw, Puzz, I read your post about the Veneti and the boat people (from the .paabo site), I and regularly talked about it in the Doggerland thread.

I also said that there were well established amber routes across Europe, and most by people from the Baltic (no surprize: that's where most of the amber is found).

Ok, the book... maybe I will ask my brother to buy it...

You should I reckon.

I will discuss it when I read it but until then I can only discuss that the book might contain real history, whether written recently or not, the contents may be able to be reconciled with true history. Possibly in a local context that has been translated further into the Mediterranean as it spread.

I have only just started into Chapter 1 properly (although read some bits and pieces) after all the intro and think I'm gonna enjoy it. If the Burckle can be dated to around 2200BC or even near it, I think that it can really verify his idea.

Regardless, I think the climate change can be enough to cause large scale earthquakes and flooding, famine and drought, but in saying that, it is possible a large ice melt has tilted the earth somewhat, not impossible. It's all very intriguing, I'm up to my neck in this whole thing, it has grabbed me you could say, and regardless of whether I agree with Alewyn or not as I get through it more, his researches and info from everywhere is really well thought out and put together, great reading so far.

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I really suggest this reading about Bronze Age Scandinavia. This is not the Wiki article but another with some really good info if interested in learning more about the Nordic people of the time of Greek myths, c. 1900-800BC. This article is straight forward stuff letting us know they had a presence there in that time.

http://www.novelguide.com/a/discover/aneu_02/aneu_02_00128.html

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You should I reckon.

I will discuss it when I read it but until then I can only discuss that the book might contain real history, whether written recently or not, the contents may be able to be reconciled with true history. Possibly in a local context that has been translated further into the Mediterranean as it spread.

I have only just started into Chapter 1 properly (although read some bits and pieces) after all the intro and think I'm gonna enjoy it. If the Burckle can be dated to around 2200BC or even near it, I think that it can really verify his idea.

Regardless, I think the climate change can be enough to cause large scale earthquakes and flooding, famine and drought, but in saying that, it is possible a large ice melt has tilted the earth somewhat, not impossible. It's all very intriguing, I'm up to my neck in this whole thing, it has grabbed me you could say, and regardless of whether I agree with Alewyn or not as I get through it more, his researches and info from everywhere is really well thought out and put together, great reading so far.

"it is possible a large ice melt has tilted the earth somewhat, not impossible"

Not impossible? Based on what?

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OK, been busying myself here trying to read the sky. Just thought I'd upload this one, I couldn't seem to save the page, dunno, so took a photo of it and downloaded it here. It is CyberSky and it shows a known event. It took me a while to find the right time though after I finally found the shadow of the sun. The Moon is small and white with a cross hair on it and the shadow is seen here as a larger grey circle.

Mentioned was the eclipses in the time of Shulgi, specifically a rare Lunar Eclipse so I thought I'd try and find it:

A double (solar and lunar) eclipse took place 23 years after Shulgi's accession to the throne. Prof. Jacob Klein of Bar-Ilan University in his book Three Sulgi hymns (1981: 59 and 81) tells that the first 23 years of his reign was peaceful, and that the sun was eclipsed on the horizon, just like the moon on the sky, during the first battles of Sulgi. (Most historians do not feel confident about their own astronomical profiency, therefore the extreme importance of this double eclipse record remained unnoticed. Another difficulty is that the reading has a questionmark.) Z.A. Simon adds that the lunar eclipse is mentioned first in the poem, because the worship of Sin (The moon) was predominant for them, and that the record is poetic, not that of an astronomer. This rare phaenomena occurred on May 9, 2138 BCE (solar eclipse), with a magnitude of 34%. The lunar eclipse took place on May 24, 2138 BCE.'

http://www.fact-index.com/c/ch/chronology_of_babylonia_and_assyria.html

I had a date of 24 May 2138BC. How to find this eclipse on CyberSky? (I will get to 2193BC soon enough, takes time) Once I found the Earths shadow it was a matter of trying to line the moon up according to time. We know it must have been a full moon. 2 hours either way doesn't line up. I found it as I moved the hours along...

IMG_3977.JPG

At 1.30 in the morning, a full moon was darkened by the Earth's shadow on the Moon as the Sun lie on the other side of the world, the night sky went dark, a rare event had occurred, a lunar eclipse.

Now, once Ive really got the hang of this I'll start trying to locate the Phaethon event as I think it can be found at an eclipse and also when the Sun and Saturn or Jupiter were passing the claws of Scorpio. No real argument here, just wanted to show you this CyberSky thing.

Edited by The Puzzler
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"it is possible a large ice melt has tilted the earth somewhat, not impossible"

Not impossible? Based on what?

Here:

Warming Could Cause Tilt In Earth's Axis -

Earth’s axial tilt (or obliquity) and its relation to the rotation axis and plane of orbit. Image from Wikipedia.Excerpts from the New Scientist

Warming oceans could cause Earth’s axis to tilt in the coming century, a new study suggests. The effect was previously thought to be negligible, but researchers now say the shift will be large enough that it should be taken into account when interpreting how the Earth wobbles.

The Earth spins on an axis that is tilted some 23.5° from the vertical. But this position is far from constant – the planet’s axis is constantly shifting in response to changes in the distribution of mass around the Earth. “The Earth is like a spinning top, and if you put more mass on one side or other, the axis of rotation is going to shift slightly,” says Felix Landerer of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California.

The influx of fresh water from shrinking ice sheets also causes the planet to pitch over. Landerer and colleagues estimate that the melting of Greenland’s ice is already causing Earth’s axis to tilt at an annual rate of about 2.6 centimetres – and that rate may increase significantly in the coming years.

Now, they calculate that oceans warmed by the rise in greenhouse gases can also cause the Earth to tilt – a conclusion that runs counter to older models, which suggested that ocean expansion would not create a large shift in the distribution of the Earth’s mass.

The team found that as the oceans warm and expand, more water will be pushed up and onto the Earth’s shallower ocean shelves. Over the next century, the subtle effect is expected to cause the northern pole of Earth’s spin axis to shift by roughly 1.5 centimetres per year in the direction of Alaska and Hawaii.

The effect is relatively small. “The pole’s not going to drift away in a crazy manner,” Landerer notes, adding that it shouldn’t induce any unfortunate feedback in Earth’s climate.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/24/warming-could-cause-tilt-in-earths-axis/

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I forgot to mention in that screen shot, I took a far view so you could see the date, the constellations are exactly where I place them if Saturn is the son of the Sun, that is Saturn is Phaethon and also since in Near east Saturn is the Sun and Helios is Saturn, the confusion becomes clearer if we look for Saturn, reaching the point between Orphiuchus and the claws of Scorpis, where it appears he seemingly drops, either in declination or another thought is a lightening bolt which accompanied the change in weather created a fireball when it hit the Earth. That view is taken from Sweden. It could be when Saturn (Helios) or Cronus, lost his place as head of the Gods. The same time as the Clash of the Titans.

Edit: Also note that it occurs in the Milky Way, the place the Pythagoreans place it (the fall of Phaethon).

There is another eclipse worth noting since it is much closer to the OLB date:

Tirigan reigned only for 40 days, according to Jacobsen. His chrononolgical table (1934: 208 ff.) has placed the accession of Ur-Nammu (Dynasty III of Ur) ten years after the end of Utu-khegal's reign. His fall may or may not have coincided with his lost battle against Erech. This famous battle took place on the day of an eclipse of the moon, on the 14th day of the month Duzu or Tammuz, from the first watch to the middle watch. See Schoch (1927: B6-B8), and Thorkild Jacobsen, The Sumerian King List (Chicago, 1934: 203). This is the first eclipse record in the Near East that is identifiable with high probability. It took place on August 13, 2189 BC, with a magnitude of 120% which is remarkable.

I'll be checking that one out next. Bed for now.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Here:

Warming Could Cause Tilt In Earth's Axis -

Earth’s axial tilt (or obliquity) and its relation to the rotation axis and plane of orbit. Image from Wikipedia.Excerpts from the New Scientist

Warming oceans could cause Earth’s axis to tilt in the coming century, a new study suggests. The effect was previously thought to be negligible, but researchers now say the shift will be large enough that it should be taken into account when interpreting how the Earth wobbles.

The Earth spins on an axis that is tilted some 23.5° from the vertical. But this position is far from constant – the planet’s axis is constantly shifting in response to changes in the distribution of mass around the Earth. “The Earth is like a spinning top, and if you put more mass on one side or other, the axis of rotation is going to shift slightly,” says Felix Landerer of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California.

The influx of fresh water from shrinking ice sheets also causes the planet to pitch over. Landerer and colleagues estimate that the melting of Greenland’s ice is already causing Earth’s axis to tilt at an annual rate of about 2.6 centimetres – and that rate may increase significantly in the coming years.

Now, they calculate that oceans warmed by the rise in greenhouse gases can also cause the Earth to tilt – a conclusion that runs counter to older models, which suggested that ocean expansion would not create a large shift in the distribution of the Earth’s mass.

The team found that as the oceans warm and expand, more water will be pushed up and onto the Earth’s shallower ocean shelves. Over the next century, the subtle effect is expected to cause the northern pole of Earth’s spin axis to shift by roughly 1.5 centimetres per year in the direction of Alaska and Hawaii.

The effect is relatively small. “The pole’s not going to drift away in a crazy manner,” Landerer notes, adding that it shouldn’t induce any unfortunate feedback in Earth’s climate.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/24/warming-could-cause-tilt-in-earths-axis/

Do you have any idea about the difference in mass between the ice cap covering the North and the mass of the asteroid??

Then, the melting takes place gradually, but the asteroid impact was a sudden event.

You simply cannot compare these events to prove your point that the earth might have tilted because of an impact of a comet/asteroid, a comet/asteroid that must have been a pin-prick compared to the ice sheet.

Then, the ice cap weighs heavily, with it's many zillions of tons of frozen water, on top of the earth: if it melted you will get a redistribution of weight over the whole earth, and yes, it might cause the earth to tilt a bit.

AS far as is known, the earth did not tilt after the impact of the asteroid that is said to be the cause of whiping out the dinosaurs.

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Do you have any idea about the difference in mass between the ice cap covering the North and the mass of the asteroid??

Then, the melting takes place gradually, but the asteroid impact was a sudden event.

You simply cannot compare these events to prove your point that the earth might have tilted because of an impact of a comet/asteroid, a comet/asteroid that must have been a pin-prick compared to the ice sheet.

Then, the ice cap weighs heavily, with it's many zillions of tons of frozen water, on top of the earth: if it melted you will get a redistribution of weight over the whole earth, and yes, it might cause the earth to tilt a bit.

AS far as is known, the earth did not tilt after the impact of the asteroid that is said to be the cause of whiping out the dinosaurs.

I had to answer this because I am not trying to prove a point the earth might have tilted because of an impact.

I mentioned it (the ice melt) as I think it could have been responsible for the tilt, if there was one at all.

I'm tired, it's late for me, night. :sleepy:

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I had to answer this because I am not trying to prove a point the earth might have tilted because of an impact.

I mentioned it (the ice melt) as I think it could have been responsible for the tilt, if there was one at all.

I'm tired, it's late for me, night. :sleepy:

OK, I think I got confused a bit because I assumed it was about the Burckle Crater, the impacting comet that must have caused it, and Alewyn's theory about it in connection with the OLB.

Sleep well.

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OK, I think I got confused a bit because I assumed it was about the Burckle Crater, the impacting comet that must have caused it, and Alewyn's theory about it in connection with the OLB.

Sleep well.

Thanks, I did.

Yep, I will make a few clarificiations.

Alewyn says impact c. 2193BC caused tsunamis.

I have small trouble with that as I cannot date Burckle to that time BUT it is possible if they dated it incorrectly since they used myth to date it by. (and other ways that may be able to be compromised - need to spend more time on it really)

2ndly on that, Internet says 2800BC but he has quoted Dallas Abbott as saying 4500 years ago. So a few discrepencies there.

So, although I think the Burckle could possibly be redated around 2500BC to get it down to 2193BC takes some figure messing.

I'm not sure on the impact idea therefore but it could be a possibilty imo.

I say that the same result could occur from a small axial tilt from melting ice in Northern areas, which would have occurred c. the 4.2 kiloyear event, in essence, not needed the Burckle impact to have been needed for the climate and flood scenarios to have happened.

So, I stand by the catastrophic climatic events of the time but not necessarily the impact event.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Your Quote:

"The OLB image of Nyhellenia is based on the image of the Greek goddess Athena."

Ah yes, but if the OLB is correct, it would just be the opposite.

Just reading back over the posts here cause I missed some early stuff and found this by Alewyn to which I definitely agree!!

This is exactly how I see it too and what the hoaxers apparently wanted us to believe but to be honest, she really could be, that is, if we look for an earlier version of Hyhellenia as she's a bit late (from evidence found so far). I do, however have hope she came from an earlier time frame and can only be identified as Nyhellenia in archaeology at the point c. 300BC. Goddesses have usually been around for hundreds if not thousands of years sometimes before they may appear to be, it is doubtful imo that a goddess such as Nyhellenia would have just popped up c. 300BC, she has been around way longer than that imo. She's known as Nyhellenia-Minerva and that also fits with my idea of this pagan Goddess arriving in Italy either before or simultaneously in Greece.

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