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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


Riaan

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Will look closer at your maps, but see, I agree, Hel is the North Sea, that is it. Hades was never fiery and hot like you say, but if Hades was later placed around the Canary Islands instead of in Northern Europe, you can see how Christians, who have Hell, could construe this to be Hel, where Hades was, to be the red fiery Hell.

Hades is more likely to be in the North sea area originally, the Greeks put it in the Western Ocean.

There is Swedish dna in Berbers and this really jolts me to think that these Swedish of the Bronze Age left and sailed down the coast to the Canary Islands with dogs and sheep and into Libya and it has been all mixed up, because apples means sheep. Not only that but Faro, which is far away in Gurtnish means sheep in more modern Swedish, but the Gotlanders don't actually have the word sheep, they use the word lamb for both adult and young sheep.

Is Holland a Dutch way of saying Hel Land do you know? Hellas (Greek) almost sounds like a group of people from Hel, the Hel-ers. Hellas. Hellenic, from Hellen, weird.

I noticed the Hel near Damme too, a place of damnation...Hell and damn!! Curse words almost.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Interesting maps, I can't read Dutch but why is Aland where it is in the picture? I would place Aland where it actually is, in the Aland Islands north of Gotland.

Is this someone who has put the places in the OLB in Friesian lands?

You mentioned about Gotland still being there but possibly it could have been inundated by water since their does seem to be migrations out.

I think Hell and sinking can be associated. That Satan that lives in Hell and Santa in his red suit with the reindeers, in fact, your idea of the Grundholm chariot and mentioning it being a sled made me think that Santa in his sled could even be the Sun. Lapland, reindeers, if these people were termed as pagans and people who would not convert so easy, rebelled and rejected Christianity they would soon be associated with these types of symbolism.

I know Santa is pretty recently drawn but the idea could be ancient. Making Santa nice would be just the thing a German (St. Nick) would do if their original religion was pagan and the more I think about it the OLB doesn't seem like it's showing us how easy it is to create a new religion but more an exercise in mid 19th century Aryan propaganda.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Gotland has been inhabited since pre-history but a legend gives it as being found uninhabited. Ajvide was inhabited c. 3100-2700BC especially.

It could have been flooded and uninhabited at one point possibly. I also equate Pharos with Faro because of a mention of lots of seals, as Proteus was Poseidon's head seal man and he always stunk of briny sea seal smell because of it, as Homer tells us, know of any seal populations in Egypt?

The site of Ajvide is located on the western coast of Gotland, Sweden, in the parish of Eksta. It covers an area of 200,000 square metres and was occupied from the Late Mesolithic through to the mid Bronze Age. The majority of the activity on the site took place during the Middle Neolithic period (3100 - 2700 BC). This phase of activity belongs to the Pitted Ware culture.[1]

Around 2900 BC, the site suffered from a marine transgression.[1]

The principal feature of the site is a burial ground containing some 80 graves. In some cases the graves are occupied by more than one individual, whilst others may be cenotaphs. Most of these graves date to later than the main phase of Pitted Ware activity. Adjacent to the cemetery, to the East, is an area of very dark soil that contains a mixture of artefacts, pottery and bone fragments. In some texts on this site, this area is referred to as the black area, and is believed to have a possible ceremonial function.[1] However, Österholm[2] has suggested that it may in fact represent the processing of seal train oil.

A significant faunal assemblage has been recovered from the site. This suggests that in the late Mesolithic the economy was based upon the hunting of grey, ringed and harp seals, porpoise and fishing. Cattle, sheep, and pigs were introduced at the start of the Neolithic. However, there was a resurgence in seal hunting and fishing by the Middle Neolithic. Cattle and sheep returned during the late Neolithic and Bronze Age.[1] It has been argued[3] that the pigs which remain on Gotland during the Pitted Ware phase are in fact wild or feral animals, implying a general return to hunting and gathering during this period and not just a reversion to marine resources. Examination of the helical fracture pattern and dynamic impact scars of the bones from Ajvide[1] suggests that bone marrow extraction took place at this site.

That is from Ajvide wiki site, forgot to save link.

Swirly pottery and Labyrinths too.

Same place we find the tests done on the lactose intolerant people, who probably drank no milk for a long time.

Edited by The Puzzler
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So from the looks of your map, Hel is right above Damme. :lol:

Lapiche

LOL, don't tell The Searcher.....

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Abe, excuse my ignorance on your Doggerland thread. It says end of last ice age it sank, what do you reckon?

OK, Atlantis, possibly but of course it shows not alot at 10,000BC that could tell us so.

Unless the migrators from Doggerland built Gobekli Tepe!!

Joke Joyce.

Do you think any of Doggerland could have remained until more recent times? It apparently is situated on a huge earthquake zone, it's all gone now but that may be more recent. Seems a logical way to have gotten to England.

OK, I'll start reading your Doggerland thread tomorrow. :sleepy:

PS: 6500BC for cut off. Quite likely. Same time as big Etna eruption and flooding of Israel.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Interesting maps, I can't read Dutch but why is Aland where it is in the picture? I would place Aland where it actually is, in the Aland Islands north of Gotland.

Is this someone who has put the places in the OLB in Friesian lands?

You mentioned about Gotland still being there but possibly it could have been inundated by water since their does seem to be migrations out.

I think Hell and sinking can be associated. That Satan that lives in Hell and Santa in his red suit with the reindeers, in fact, your idea of the Grundholm chariot and mentioning it being a sled made me think that Santa in his sled could even be the Sun. Lapland, reindeers, if these people were termed as pagans and people who would not convert so easy, rebelled and rejected Christianity they would soon be associated with these types of symbolism.

I know Santa is pretty recently drawn but the idea could be ancient. Making Santa nice would be just the thing a German (St. Nick) would do if their original religion was pagan and the more I think about it the OLB doesn't seem like it's showing us how easy it is to create a new religion but more an exercise in mid 19th century Aryan propaganda.

Heheh, this pdf and the pics are in German... but it was written by a Dutch guy (no doubt you saw "Rotterdam" and the author's name, "Vroege", in the pdf). He also seems quite interested in Asatru and stuff like that, but more to correct those pagans for their sometimes erroneous beliefs based on wrong info).

"Aland", no it's not your Aland; the text says, "na 't witte Aland", meaning, "to the white island'.

I have to add that, according to his pdf, he claims Iceland (you see an arrow pointing to the Hekla volcano), or it's volcano, is the gate of Hell.

"Gotland", as far as I know has always been above sea/lake level (why lake? because once the whole Baltic was a sweet water lake, not a sea). And because of the isostatic rebound it's even still rising.

"Santa", wasn't he a character invented by Coca Cola, based on Saint Nicholas, a saint in Europe ("Sinterklaas")? They gave him a red suit, a sled , and couple of reindeer. Well, I'm not sure about that one, lol.

"the more I think about it the OLB doesn't seem like it's showing us how easy it is to create a new religion but more an exercise in mid 19th century Aryan propaganda."

Heinrich Himmler loved it.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Abe, excuse my ignorance on your Doggerland thread. It says end of last ice age it sank, what do you reckon?

OK, Atlantis, possibly but of course it shows not alot at 10,000BC that could tell us so.

Unless the migrators from Doggerland built Gobekli Tepe!!

Joke Joyce.

Do you think any of Doggerland could have remained until more recent times? It apparently is situated on a huge earthquake zone, it's all gone now but that may be more recent. Seems a logical way to have gotten to England.

OK, I'll start reading your Doggerland thread tomorrow. :sleepy:

Jeesh, you make me remember I created something of a summary for you. Then you won't have to wrestle through 34 pages. I will post it later. But if you want to read the whole thread, beware: it's a lot.

Doggerland slowly but surely got flooded after the end of the ice age. It didn't sink in one go.

But if you read what I posted on the latest page (with the nice pics, lol), then much of it was still above sea level. Then finally, there was the Storegga Slide that created a huge tsunami at 6140 BC, and whiped Doggerland (or-Dogger Island) clean.

You ask me if any part of DL could have remained untill more recnt times.. well, I hoped it would, but it appears the last remnants of the island sank around 4500 BC , and maybe even just before that it must have been nothing but an large flat island just a few inches above sealevel.

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There is Swedish dna in Berbers and this really jolts me to think that these Swedish of the Bronze Age left and sailed down the coast to the Canary Islands with dogs and sheep and into Libya and it has been all mixed up, because apples means sheep. Not only that but Faro, which is far away in Gurtnish means sheep in more modern Swedish, but the Gotlanders don't actually have the word sheep, they use the word lamb for both adult and young sheep.

Not Swedish, Saami. That is, Lapplander. The latter is Uralic where the former is Germanic.

Members of the common ancestral stock are believed to've migrated across the straits of Gibraltar well before the bronze age.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1199377/pdf/AJHGv76p883.pdf

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Puzz, a little extra about the Baltic:

Gotland has been rising above sea level since at least 7500 BC:

Baltic_History_7500-BC.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancylus_Lake

Here's map that shows it's present state:

physical-map-sweden.gif

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EDIT:

I learned that some areas in Scandinavia are rising one centimeter a year (almost half an inch)..... and we here are sinking.

I imagine that we Dutch will all move to Scandinavia in the future.

I hope they have some spare room for 16 million people.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Not Swedish, Saami. That is, Lapplander. The latter is Uralic where the former is Germanic.

Members of the common ancestral stock are believed to've migrated across the straits of Gibraltar well before the bronze age.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1199377/pdf/AJHGv76p883.pdf

The Sami hey...even more interesting, thanks for that.

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Puzz, a little extra about the Baltic:

Gotland has been rising above sea level since at least 7500 BC:

Baltic_History_7500-BC.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancylus_Lake

Here's map that shows it's present state:

physical-map-sweden.gif

-

EDIT:

I learned that some areas in Scandinavia are rising one centimeter a year (almost half an inch)..... and we here are sinking.

I imagine that we Dutch will all move to Scandinavia in the future.

I hope they have some spare room for 16 million people.

.

Yes, I see. OK fair enough.

So, the land up there must be getting lighter as the ice melts more, rising the land, the sea is not lowering.

Somewhere the continent is sinking at the same time...

They say the name Holland came from holt land, meaning wooded land. This could even be Twiskland. Do we really know Twiskland is Germany.

Hel Land seemed an interesting alternative I thought.

Pliny the Elder (AD 23 - 79) referred to this region as the land between the Helinium and Flevo ("inter Helinium ac Flevum"), the names of the mouths into which the Rhine divided itself, the first discharging its waters in the Mosa in the neighbourhood of Brielle and the second into "the lakes of the north" (present IJsselmeer).[2] The name Holland first appeared in sources in AD 866 for the region around Haarlem, and by 1064 was being used as the name of the entire county. By this time, the inhabitants of Holland were referring to themselves as "Hollanders".[3] Holland is derived from the Middle Dutch term holtland ("wooded land"). This spelling variation remained in use until around the 14th century, at which time the name stabilised as Holland (alternative spellings at the time were Hollant and Hollandt). Popular, but incorrect, etymology[citation needed] holds that Holland is derived from hol land ("hollow land") and was inspired by the low-lying geography of Holland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland

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I often look around me to find clues.

My partner's mother, my kids grandma, I'll call her B, has a Finnish mother, her name is Zelma and a very Scandinavian maiden last name.

Zelma to me sounds like a typical witch name, like Zelda, stereo-typed witch name.

This had me thinking about what her lineage might be and whether she had some of this gypsy in her.

If she is actually a Finno-Urgic line herself, that is a Finnish Laplander, I think she might have been a Sami/Saami but no one has told me because they don't really know anything about them.

It got lost because Zelda married a man who was Scottish as they get and B.'s name is so Scottish, but it belies her mothers heritage of being Finnish and a possible Sami at that. Zelma herself was born in Australia but Zelma's mother was born in Finland.

I will have to check it out some more.

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Zelma - Old German origin

The girl's name Zelma \z(e)-

lma,

zel-

ma\ is pronounced ZEL-mah. It is of Old German origin, and the meaning of Zelma is "helmet of God". Short form of Anselma (Old German) "helmet of God"; variant of Selma.

Maybe not Sami then.

Caspar the Friendly Ghost has an Aunty Zelma and so does Sabrina the Teenage witch and I am convinced this name has something to do with witches and I want to know why.

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Probaly comes from Midsummer type celebrations, Germanic witches, named Zelda who still practised pagan rites. Good witches I guess.

Gypsies and foretune tellers would be a different sort then, more Russian.

OK, so Zelma is a Germanic name, common, so assigned to friendly pagan witches as stereo-type.

Zelda is Old German too.

Just trying to establish exactly who is who and doing what where. It's sort of easy to think witches might be gysies or Magi but they probably are not at all.

So, we have a magi, gypsy, Estonian, Russian line that continues into Finland and up into Lapland. Finno Urgic. They may be a Finnish people who had an overlay of Uralic people from the steppes around the Urals who bought the cattle, the migration that shows an influx of these people who could tolerate milk.

So, if I was to guess now, I'd say the OLB seems to suggest this too.

The original people who lived there were inundated by a first group who were not wild like Finda's people, the more southern barbarian but a group like shamans, gypsies, like around the area of Scythia, who were extremely devout and never smiled, who would when you have to kill 50 young men and horses for a burial for the Gods.

So, to me, the ones they called Finns in the OLB book, that is the incoming Magi people who had priests and lived in fear of them and God were shaman people from the Ural that came in on an Old German people living in Finland.

They would have passed the White Sea actually which I see now, it's the Beloye More as they came in the back of Finland, into Lapland and then down into Sweden.

Just like the book has them coming. It says also they had priests and statues in the churches and the priests had copper weapons while the regular Joe had weapons of stone. That sounds to me like a slingshot. The people of Freya had iron weapons and they liked them and wanted to swap their gold for it, so this must have been when they had some iron weapons already in the North. The Aesir fought with iron weapons too. Weird, just saw this too - Because meteorites fall from the sky, some linguists have conjectured that the English word iron (OE īsern), which has cognates in many northern and Western European languages, derives from the Etruscan aisar which means "the gods".[5] Even if this is not the case, the word is likely a loan into pre-Proto-Germanic from Celtic or Italic. Krahe compares Old Irish, Illyrian, Venetic and Messapic forms). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ferrous_metallurgy

So, Aesir (aisar) in Etruscan means the Gods which also means iron. O...............K

Trojan war?

Can we actually put this in a 2000BC timeframe, I don't know about that....if the people of Freya had iron weapons when the Magyar came in with their iron weapons it can't be 2000BC imo.

As the Freya people (the good men left for departure) left Scandinavia (probably for Frisia) passing through the Kattegat, the story of Wodin came about from a real man hero who disappeared and this is the story of it, he and his men attacked the Magyars and Finns and drove them back. But Wodin is conned and becomes King of the Magi. His son is also King and it seems the Nordic Gods are becoming in place. 6th century BC for Nordic Iron Age.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/olb/olb23.htm

One hundred and one years after the submersion of Aldland † a people came out of the East. That people was driven by another. Behind us, in Twiskland (Germany), they fell into disputes, divided into two parties, and each went its own way. Of the one no account has come to us, but the other came in the back of our Schoonland, which was thinly inhabited, particularly the upper part. Therefore they were able to take possession of it without contest, and as they did no other harm, we would not make war about it. Now that we have learned to know them, we will describe their customs, and after that how matters went between us. They were not wild people, like most of Finda's race; but, like the Egyptians, they have priests and also statues in their churches. The priests are the only rulers; they call themselves Magyars, and their headman Magy. He is high priest and king in one. The rest of the people are of no account, and in subjection to them. This people have not even a name; but we call them Finns, because although all the festivals are melancholy and bloody, they are so formal that we are inferior to them in that respect. But still they are not to be envied, because they are slaves to their priests, and still more to their creeds. They believe that evil spirits abound everywhere, and enter into men and beasts, but of Wr-alda's spirit they know nothing. They have weapons of stone, the Magyars of copper. The Magyars affirm that they can exorcise and recall the evil spirits, and this frightens the people, so that you never see a cheerful face.

The events seem to be workable but I don't think the time framing is in the whole book.

Nyhellenia-Minerva could be some connection especially if the Aesir, the Gods of the Nordic Pantheon, meaning iron and these Gods fought with iron. The Nordic Aesir might even be a continuation of the Etruscan Gods putting Minerva right in the picture.

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Yes, I see. OK fair enough.

So, the land up there must be getting lighter as the ice melts more, rising the land, the sea is not lowering.

Somewhere the continent is sinking at the same time...

They say the name Holland came from holt land, meaning wooded land. This could even be Twiskland. Do we really know Twiskland is Germany.

Hel Land seemed an interesting alternative I thought.

Pliny the Elder (AD 23 - 79) referred to this region as the land between the Helinium and Flevo ("inter Helinium ac Flevum"), the names of the mouths into which the Rhine divided itself, the first discharging its waters in the Mosa in the neighbourhood of Brielle and the second into "the lakes of the north" (present IJsselmeer).[2] The name Holland first appeared in sources in AD 866 for the region around Haarlem, and by 1064 was being used as the name of the entire county. By this time, the inhabitants of Holland were referring to themselves as "Hollanders".[3] Holland is derived from the Middle Dutch term holtland ("wooded land"). This spelling variation remained in use until around the 14th century, at which time the name stabilised as Holland (alternative spellings at the time were Hollant and Hollandt). Popular, but incorrect, etymology[citation needed] holds that Holland is derived from hol land ("hollow land") and was inspired by the low-lying geography of Holland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland

As there are (still) many place names in The Netherlands that start with 'Hel', Hel land is a possibility, of course.

But, as you yourself found out, 'Holt Land', 'Wooded Land' is the accepted etymology.

The Twiskland in the OLB stands for 'Tussen Land', meaning, the 'in between land'. It doesn't seem logical that it would mean Holland. What is now Holland (and here I mean the western part of The Netherlands) was once part of Friesland.

Another thing: I will bet you have seen maps of The Netherlands as it would look without the dikes. Most of Holland would be gone, accept for the dunes. Thousands of years ago most of that area was above water (most of the time), but would not have had much forests or trees because of the peat, swamps, rivers and lakes.

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EDIT:

Heh, I didn't know this: Twisk is an old village (many centuries old) near Medemblik, in North-Holland

The English Wikipage about Twisk doesn't say much, but the (original) Dutch page says a lot more: Twisk comes from the Old Frisian twisca which means 'in between'.

~LINK~

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Did you take into account the arrival of the Huns, or 'Magyar' (as the Hungarians still call themselves)?

Priest and churches and statues, hmmm... I would say they had a nomadic lifestyle, and a spiritual belief based on shamanism.

But the time frame is wrong: as far as is known now, they arrived in the 4th century AD, and drove many germanic peoples out of their countries.

Interesting is that nordic people were much more positive about Attila then the rest of the Europeans:

Most writings describe Attila the Hun as cruel and ruthless, with one notable exception - the famous German Nibelungen-Lied mentions him thus: "There was a mighty king in the land of the Huns whose goodness and wisdom had no equal."

http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/hunspir/hsp05.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns

Edited by Abramelin
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About Twisk (en Medemblik) again: I found an interesting map:

Medemblikkrt.jpg

Now if you look at the the lower part of the map, you will see a couple of placenames ending in -woud.

"Woud" means forest, or woods. Twisk lies 'between' Medemblik (an important city in the OLB) and those 'woods'...

Again, for me, this is a sign that the whole story of the OLB is based on very local topography, and then enlarged with a magifying glass to make it look more grand.

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As there are (still) many place names in The Netherlands that start with 'Hel', Hel land is a possibility, of course.

But, as you yourself found out, 'Holt Land', 'Wooded Land' is the accepted etymology.

The Twiskland in the OLB stands for 'Tussen Land', meaning, the 'in between land'. It doesn't seem logical that it would mean Holland. What is now Holland (and here I mean the western part of The Netherlands) was once part of Friesland.

Another thing: I will bet you have seen maps of The Netherlands as it would look without the dikes. Most of Holland would be gone, accept for the dunes. Thousands of years ago most of that area was above water (most of the time), but would not have had much forests or trees because of the peat, swamps, rivers and lakes.

-

EDIT:

Heh, I didn't know this: Twisk is an old village (many centuries old) near Medemblik, in North-Holland

The English Wikipage about Twisk doesn't say much, but the (original) Dutch page says a lot more: Twisk comes from the Old Frisian twisca which means 'in between'.

~LINK~

.

So, whoever has got us thinking Germany is at fault here, the translator Sandback more than likely...like I said Twiskland to me DID seem to be Holland by the description in the book, that's how I came to ask that question...Could Twiskland be in Holland, and it is.

How weird, a local story possibly concocted in 1860ish clever enough to be able to use the Dutch and Frisian place names of the time and it appears that the story is worldwide...

Middlesea...the Mediterranean is known as the Middle Sea, esp. by Hebrews.

Egypt, Cadiz etc, all in Friesland but translated into English it appears they are where we know them as in the Med and that Athena is Nyhellenia.

Extraordinary really but I think I can accept it was written recently and when the writers wrote it they must have known that when these places were translated into English they would appear to be a history of them over 4000years. It intrigues me still and quite frankly the whole topic has fried my brain so I'm backing off for a while on this, it's been fun learning so much in it but I seem to be spending a lot of time going around in circles and I need to do some stuff around here...thanks Abe. :tu:

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So, whoever has got us thinking Germany is at fault here, the translator Sandback more than likely...like I said Twiskland to me DID seem to be Holland by the description in the book, that's how I came to ask that question...Could Twiskland be in Holland, and it is.

How weird, a local story possibly concocted in 1860ish clever enough to be able to use the Dutch and Frisian place names of the time and it appears that the story is worldwide...

Middlesea...the Mediterranean is known as the Middle Sea, esp. by Hebrews.

Egypt, Cadiz etc, all in Friesland but translated into English it appears they are where we know them as in the Med and that Athena is Nyhellenia.

Extraordinary really but I think I can accept it was written recently and when the writers wrote it they must have known that when these places were translated into English they would appear to be a history of them over 4000years. It intrigues me still and quite frankly the whole topic has fried my brain so I'm backing off for a while on this, it's been fun learning so much in it but I seem to be spending a lot of time going around in circles and I need to do some stuff around here...thanks Abe. :tu:

I think it's not Sandbach's fault; he did make some errors with his translation from Dutch to English, but his interpretation of the OLB is based on Ottema's work.

I hope you also read my former post?

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Did you take into account the arrival of the Huns, or 'Magyar' (as the Hungarians still call themselves)?

Priest and churches and statues, hmmm... I would say they had a nomadic lifestyle, and a spiritual belief based on shamanism.

But the time frame is wrong: as far as is known now, they arrived in the 4th century AD, and drove many germanic peoples out of their countries.

Interesting is that nordic people were much more positive about Attila then the rest of the Europeans:

Most writings describe Attila the Hun as cruel and ruthless, with one notable exception - the famous German Nibelungen-Lied mentions him thus: "There was a mighty king in the land of the Huns whose goodness and wisdom had no equal."

http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/hunspir/hsp05.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns

Jordanes attributes their origins to the intercourse of Gothic witches and unclean spirits.[23] Ammianus reported that they arrived from the north, near the 'ice bound ocean', prompting suggestions of Finno-Ugrian roots

Or from the steppes, steppes I'd say.

What are you saying Abe? Truly, you are like debating a cryptic cross word.

I always knew the Dutch as Huns, even now whenever we refer to the Dutch we call them Huns, does this have anything to do with what you are trying to say?

This is why I go round in circles, what are you saying, just spit it out mate. The Dutch were a lineage of Huns that settled in Holland through Germany (and drove the Anglo-Saxon Frisians into the area they are today)?

Until the 9th century, the inhabitants of the area that became Holland were Frisians. The area was part of Frisia.

At the end of the reign of Louis the Pious, the royal power had weakened because of the flood of 838, but also because of infighting between the king's sons. After Louis died, his son Lothair I rewarded the Danish brothers Rorik and Harald with Frisia - current day Friesland and Holland - in an attempt to resist the attacks of the Vikings. Because of this, the Counts saw their power reduced. They started cooperating with the Danish, but in 885 the Danish rule came to an end with the murder of Godfrid, Duke of Frisia. One of the people involved in the murder was Gerolf, comes Fresonum (count of Frisia). As a reward Gerulf was given lands in full ownership on August 4, 889, from the East Francian king Arnulf of Carinthia. The lands in question included an area outside of Gerulf's county, in Teisterbant, including Tiel, Aalburg and Asch. It also involved an area inside the county. This last possession consisted of a forest and a field somewhere between the mouth of the Old Rhine and presumably Bennebroek, Suithardeshaga.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Holland

PS: I'll ad it seems not much reference is to the Dutch Hun, only that the Germans were called Huns in World War 1.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Jordanes attributes their origins to the intercourse of Gothic witches and unclean spirits.[23] Ammianus reported that they arrived from the north, near the 'ice bound ocean', prompting suggestions of Finno-Ugrian roots

Or from the steppes, steppes I'd say.

What are you saying Abe? Truly, you are like debating a cryptic cross word.

I always knew the Dutch as Huns, even now whenever we refer to the Dutch we call them Huns, does this have anything to do with what you are trying to say?

This is why I go round in circles, what are you saying, just spit it out mate. The Dutch were Germans who were a lineage of Huns that settled in Holland?

I think you do not read posts in the order they were posted.

You talked about the Magyar, I answered with something about the Magyar, or Huns as they were called.

Uhmm.. no, we Dutch are not Huns (nor are the Germans), although a couple of ex girlfriends would call me that, lol.

All I said is that the Huns/Magyar invaded Euope, and chased the Germanic tribes out of the areas they lived in.

And when I asked you if you had read my former post, I meant the post with the map of Twisk/Medemblik. THAT was my former post when I asked you about it, lol.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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The thing is, after all is said and done, the Greek Mycenaeans did have contact with Nordic people, how do we really know the people the Mycenaeans were trading with were not the people who became the Frisians and knew something of history around 1200BC?

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I think you do not read posts in the order they were posted.

You talked about the Magyar, I answered with something about the Magyar, or Huns as they were called.

Uhmm.. no, we Dutch are not Huns (nor are the Germans), although a couple of ex girlfriends would call me that, lol.

All I said is that the Huns/Magyar invaded Euope, and chased the Germanic tribes out of the areas they lived in.

And when I asked you if you had read my former post, I meant the post with the map of Twisk/Medemblik. THAT was my former post when I asked you about it, lol.

.

Ok, no worries then, sorry, I got confused cause we do call Dutch Huns, (obviously a British/Aussie derogatory propaganda leftover from WW1) even if you don't, so thought you were meaning some sort of connection there.

Yep yep, the Magyar are the Huns.

:sleepy:

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Ok, no worries then, sorry, I got confused cause we do call Dutch Huns, (obviously a British/Aussie derogatory propaganda leftover from WW1) even if you don't, so thought you were meaning some sort of connection there.

Yep yep, the Magyar are the Huns.

:sleepy:

Hmmmm... so you people call us Huns, eh? <_<

And what did we do to deserve that nickname??

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The thing is, after all is said and done, the Greek Mycenaeans did have contact with Nordic people, how do we really know the people the Mycenaeans were trading with were not the people who became the Frisians and knew something of history around 1200BC?

They found Mycenian artifacts in graves near Stonehenge and elsewhere in England, and amber from the North Sea and the Baltic can be found all over Europe.

So they will have had contact, sure, but does that mean everything in Europe started with Freya's people?

I don't think so.

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