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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


Riaan

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I come round to Graveyard Hound's opinion. Great topic. Thank you all. :yes::clap:

Edited by jimmylives
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correction please...gentle lady....muahahahaha :devil:

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correction please...gentle lady....muahahahaha :devil:

:D

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Thinking some more and browsing Alewyn's book some more and the mention of these Phaeacians, the best sailors in the world, now if these Phaeacians, who in fact, seem to be the actual Phocaeans of the Ionian coast in Asia Minor, I think it could actually be that the Phocaeans were the settlers of the Athenians.

No Athenian monument appears prior to around 600BC yet the Phocaeans, who are meant to be from some great Athenian expansion into A.Minor..are in the first naval battle known in history, that is they fight for the Greeks against a coalition of Etruscans and Phoenicians for some control in the Western mediterranean particularly around Corsica.

So, did the actual Athenians come into Greece from the area of the Phocaeans who are really the original Athenians? Possibly from Marseilles with contact with the Etruscans before they became AThenians.

Yes, its so obvious now, this is how Athena is in Crete and Libya, she is with these Phocaeans, who sail into the Aegean and settle in Phocaea. How funny, Homer apaprently from Cos and Herodotus himself is not fromt he Greek mainland is he, he is a Helicarnassus man, in the Ionic area of Asia Minor.

The Phocaeans probably had the language we find on Lemnos, a combo of Phoenician and Etruscan. Which then developed into another language when they moved into the area of the Pelasgians.

The Ionians of Asia Minor, do you really believe they were settled from the Greeks of the mainland Athens?

Not in a million years I say. It went the other way, the Ionians of Ion, Minerva came in from the West, from France, into Asia Minor around Phocaea, which is just on the coast near Lemnos.

8. Moreover, our navigators and merchants had many factories among the Heinde Krekalandar and in Lydia. In Lydia the people are black.

http://bulfinch.englishatheist.org/linda/Oera-Linda.htm

The Phaiakians did not participate in the Trojan War. The Greek word Phaiakians (Φαίακες) is derived from phaios (φαιός)[7] meaning gray, hence Phaiakians means "dark-skinned". The Phaiakians in the Odyssey did not know Odysseus (although they knew of him, as evidenced by the tales of Demodocus), so they called him a "stranger". Odysseus however was the king of the majority of the Ionian Islands,[8], not only of Ithaca, but also "of Cephallenia, Neritum, Crocylea, Aegilips, Same and Zacynthus"[9] so if Schería was Corfu, it would be surprising that the citizens of one of the Ionian Islands did not know Odysseus. Furthermore, when Odysseus reveals his identity, he says to the nobles: "...if I outlive this time of sorrow, I may be counted as your friend, though I live so far away from all of you"[10] indicating that Schería was far away from Ithaca.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheria

Now you say that the Phocaeans, from what's now the west coast of Turkey were the same as the Phaeacans.

These Phocaeans lived close to, were enemies of, but were also related with the Lydians living there.

According to some, The Etruscans descended from these Lydians (but not to all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia ).

According to this website, LINK , Scheria, the island of the Phaeacans was west of modern day Greece, and quite close to the territory of the Etruscans.

And isn't it strange that Lydia's people of the OLB are always said to be LiByans, while there were real Lydians living in an area in (modern)Turkey? Why did the interpretors of the OLB switch the -d- for a -b-? Only to make these Lydians into (North) Africans, because they better fitted the description of Lydia's people (black)?

Maybe Lydia's people had nothing to do with North Africa at all, but with Turkey instead.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Glad you are here Abe, I will read your post in a tick but was just about to add this to the thread:

Although the oasis is known to have been settled since at least the 10th millennium BC, the earliest evidence of connection with ancient Egypt is the 26th Dynasty, when a necropolis was established. The ancient Egyptian name of Siwa was Sekht-am "Palm Land".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siwa_Oasis

I actually wasn't looking for Palm Land.

PALM LAND lol

I had got to the Siwa Oasis, right on the Libyan border because I was checking out more about the Oracle of Ammon, who had been the one that ordered Cepheus should expose Andromeda when Perseus came along and saved her in Ethiopia.

So, it would seem odd then that this Aethiopia would be in Israel, seems more obvious it would be in Libya or maybe Aethiopia itself since Perseus has gone to Libya to kill the Gorgon, makes much more sense.

So, Palm Land is this ancient mythical Aethiopia, not Palm Land, which are suppose to think is Phoenicia...

I only scanned your post but did you bold this part just for me, you must be telepathic mate

The Greek word Phaiakians (Φαίακες) is derived from phaios (φαιός)[7] meaning gray, hence Phaiakians means "dark-skinned".

Maybe this whole post has something to do with your question in your own post above.

Phocaea is in Lydia - Phaiakians means dark skinned or dark gray and are in Libya....well, the OLB would say Lydia wouldn't it if it was Aryan propaganda as I said I suspect it is. The OLB tells us Lyda was black, dark skinned.

So, maybe the black skinned people ended up in Lydia, these Aethiopians, this other place we find this mysterious Aethiopia, not quite Joppa but the Phocaeans and Phoenicians have ties too, in sailing and being in the Western Mediterranean.

Like I said I'll read your post above and see if this Palm Land that is actually the Siwa Oasis area matches anything, I can see already much will fit into place.

I'm guilty of editing much too, just bad punctuation this time.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Glad you are here Abe, I will read your post in a tick but was just about to add this to the thread:

Although the oasis is known to have been settled since at least the 10th millennium BC, the earliest evidence of connection with ancient Egypt is the 26th Dynasty, when a necropolis was established. The ancient Egyptian name of Siwa was Sekht-am "Palm Land".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siwa_Oasis

I actually wasn't looking for Palm Land.

PALM LAND lol

I had got to the Siwa Oasis, right on the Libyan border because I was checking out more about the Oracle of Ammon, who had been the one that ordered Cepheus should expose Andromeda when Perseus came along and saved her in Ethiopia.

So, it would seem odd then that this Aethiopia would be in Israel, seems more obvious it would be in Libya or maybe Aethiopia itself since Perseus has gone to Libya to kill the Gorgon, makes much more sense.

So, Palm Land is this ancient mythical Aethiopia, not Palm Land, which are suppose to think is Phoenicia...

I only scanned your post but did you bold this part just for me, you must be telepathic mate

The Greek word Phaiakians (Φαίακες) is derived from phaios (φαιός)[7] meaning gray, hence Phaiakians means "dark-skinned".

Maybe this whole post has something to do with your question in your own post above.

Phocaea is in Lydia - Phaiakians means dark skinned or dark gray and are in Libya....well, the OLB would say Lydia wouldn't it if it was Aryan propaganda as I said I suspect it is. The OLB tells us Lyda was black, dark skinned.

So, maybe the black skinned people ended up in Lydia, these Aethiopians, this other place we find this mysterious Aethiopia, not quite Joppa but the Phocaeans and Phoenicians have ties too, in sailing and being in the Western Mediterranean.

Like I said I'll read your post above and see if this Palm Land that is actually the Siwa Oasis area matches anything, I can see already much will fit into place.

I'm guilty of editing much too, just bad punctuation this time.

You may have thought the OLB was 'Aryan propaganda', but it never was. Sure, it was used for that purpose by the later Nazis, but it wasn't written for that purpose.

"Phonisia, that is palmland" (OLB).

Now, what Phonesia, or better, Phoenicia are we talking about? The colonies on the northern coasts of Africa, or the original homeland in the east of the Mediterannean?

And what is 'dark skinned'? In medieval Europe people from around the Mediterranean, including Spain, Turkey, Italy and Greece were also seen as 'dark', just because of their dark hair and eyes.

And still I say, why do the interpretors of the OLB think "Lydia" is nothing but Libya?? Why not simply say it's the Lydian Kingdom in ancient Turkey?

Do they have palms at the south coast of Turkey? I think so. And Lydia is nicely close to ancient Phoenicia. Both peoples were known as merchants.

lydia.gif

http://www.usmessageboard.com/education-and-history/125186-dna-reveals-origins-of-ancient-etruscans.html

colonies.gif

http://www.friesian.com/greek.htm

This is fun: according to the Wiki page I linked to in my former post, linguists are convinced Lydian and Etruscan had no relation whatsoever.

But now read this:

ScienceDaily (June 18, 2007) — The long-running controversy about the origins of the Etruscan people appears to be very close to being settled once and for all, a geneticist will tell the annual conference of the European Society of Human Genetics today. Professor Alberto Piazza, from the University of Turin, Italy, will say that there is overwhelming evidence that the Etruscans, whose brilliant civilization flourished 3000 years ago in what is now Tuscany, were settlers from old Anatolia (now in southern Turkey).

Herodotus' theory, much criticised by subsequent historians, states that the Etruscans emigrated from the ancient region of Lydia, on what is now the southern coast of Turkey, because of a long-running famine. Half the population was sent by the king to look for a better life elsewhere, says his account, and sailed from Smyrna (now Izmir) until they reached Umbria in Italy.

"We think that our research provides convincing proof that Herodotus was right", says Professor Piazza, "and that the Etruscans did indeed arrive from ancient Lydia. However, to be 100% certain we intend to sample other villages in Tuscany, and also to test whether there is a genetic continuity between the ancient Etruscans and modern-day Tuscans. This will have to be done by extracting DNA from fossils; this has been tried before but the technique for doing so has proved to be very difficult."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070616191637.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_origins

--

And I know how you love to play with words... check this out:

The endonym Śfard (the name the Lydians called themselves) survives in bilingual and trilingual stone-carved notices of the Achaemenid Empire: the satrapy of Sparda (Old Persian), Aramaic Saparda, Babylonian Sapardu, Elamitic Išbarda.[1] These in the Greek tradition are associated with Sardis, the capital city of Gyges, constructed in the 7th century BC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia

I know what ancient city you are thinking of now...... :P

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Sparda....give me a break! lol

The Lydian Empire was called Sparda by the Achaemenids.

So, were the Spartans in Greece exactly as the Persians said...related???

More than likely.

It's all too much for me, I need a smoke and a cuppa... :wacko:

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Sparda....give me a break! lol

The Lydian Empire was called Sparda by the Achaemenids.

So, were the Spartans in Greece exactly as the Persians said...related???

More than likely.

It's all too much for me, I need a smoke and a cuppa... :wacko:

You will need more than that now, lol:

In any case, it is indeed a historical given that the Lydian connection was formalized politically in the alliance between Sparta and Lydia (as also in earlier contacts: Herodotus 1.69.3-4). Moreover, the same Lydian connection was formalized ideologically in the myth about the colonization of the Peloponnesus by Pelops the Lydian.

§24. This is not to say that the myth about a Lydian founder of the Peloponnesus was invented out of nothing by the Spartans in order to justify their Lydian policy. The alien--that is to say, Lydian--identity of Pelops was a theme appropriated by the Spartans as validation of their Lydian contacts: if Sparta's self-image is to be glorious, then its Lydian contacts are also glorious. But the actual theme of a Lydian Pelops was not invented ad hoc for the Lydian policy of Sparta: rather it was inherited from an earlier phase of Hellenic history and myth making--the era of the colonization of Asia Minor and the transplanting of native myths and rituals from the Mainland. 1

http://www.press.jhu.edu/books/nagy/PHISM/chapter10.html

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The OLB Lydians were called black, or 'zwart' in Dutch.

What did the real Lydians call themselves? Sfard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia

Now, following OLB style etymology and word derivatio, these Lydians must have been sfard >> swart >> zwart = BLACK.

:w00t:

Need more coffee??

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2. When Jon reached the Middel Sea, the reports of the Golar had preceded him, so that on the coast of Heinde Krekaland he was nowhere safe. Therefore he went with his fleet straight over to Lydia. There the black men wanted to catch them and eat them. At last they came to Thyr, but Minerva said:

3. "Keep clear, for here the air has been long poisoned by the priests."

He went to Lydia, where the black men wanted to catch and eat him....

I'd say that sounds maybe like he sailed straight over to Libya to me, not Lydia. Unless there were black cannibal men in Lydia... ya reckon?

Link: http://bulfinch.englishatheist.org/linda/Oera-Linda.htm

Edited by The Puzzler
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2. When Jon reached the Middel Sea, the reports of the Golar had preceded him, so that on the coast of Heinde Krekaland he was nowhere safe. Therefore he went with his fleet straight over to Lydia. There the black men wanted to catch them and eat them. At last they came to Thyr, but Minerva said:

3. "Keep clear, for here the air has been long poisoned by the priests."

He went to Lydia, where the black men wanted to catch and eat him....

I'd say that sounds maybe like he sailed straight over to Libya to me, not Lydia. Unless there were black cannibal men in Lydia... ya reckon?

Link: http://bulfinch.englishatheist.org/linda/Oera-Linda.htm

I reckon...

Were the Phoenicians in North Africa cannibals? Were they black?

"Straight over the Lydia"... did you check the maps I posted??

THAT STÊT VP ALLE BURGUM ESKRÊVEN.

Buta ånd bihalva hêdon vsa stjurar ånd kâpljvd mêni loge anda hêinde Krêkalanda

ånd to Lydia. In vr Lydia thêr send tha swarta minniska.

Anyway, ever heard of Tantalus, one of the mythical gods of the Lydians?

Tantalus is referred to as "Phrygian" and sometimes even as "King of Phrygia",[4] although his city was located in the western extremity of Anatolia where Lydia was to emerge as a state before the beginning of the first millennium BC, and not in the traditional heartland of Phrygia, situated more inland. References to his son as "Pelops the Lydian" led some scholars to the conclusion that there would be good grounds for believing that he belonged to a primordial house of Lydia.

Most famously, Tantalus offered up his son, Pelops, as a sacrifice to the gods. He cut Pelops up, boiled him, and served him up as food for the gods. The gods were said to be aware of his plan for their feast, so they didn't touch the offering; only Demeter, distraught by the loss of her daughter, Persephone, did not realize what it was and ate part of the boy's shoulder. Clotho, one of the three Fates, ordered by Zeus, brought the boy to life again (she collected the parts of the body and boiled them in a sacred cauldron), rebuilding his shoulder with one wrought of ivory made by Hephaestus and presented by Demeter. The revived Pelops was kidnapped by Poseidon and taken to Olympus. Later, Zeus threw Pelops out of Olympus due to his anger at Tantalus. The Greeks of classical times claimed to be horrified by Tantalus's doings; cannibalism, human sacrifice and infanticide were atrocities and taboo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalus

The more I read this stuff, the more I understand that the writers in the 19th century must have laughed their asses of when they had invented a new twist to be incorporated in this 'ancient chronicle'.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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I reckon...

Ever heard of Tantalus, one of the mythical gods of the Lydians?

Tantalus is referred to as "Phrygian" and sometimes even as "King of Phrygia",[4] although his city was located in the western extremity of Anatolia where Lydia was to emerge as a state before the beginning of the first millennium BC, and not in the traditional heartland of Phrygia, situated more inland. References to his son as "Pelops the Lydian" led some scholars to the conclusion that there would be good grounds for believing that he belonged to a primordial house of Lydia.

Most famously, Tantalus offered up his son, Pelops, as a sacrifice to the gods. He cut Pelops up, boiled him, and served him up as food for the gods. The gods were said to be aware of his plan for their feast, so they didn't touch the offering; only Demeter, distraught by the loss of her daughter, Persephone, did not realize what it was and ate part of the boy's shoulder. Clotho, one of the three Fates, ordered by Zeus, brought the boy to life again (she collected the parts of the body and boiled them in a sacred cauldron), rebuilding his shoulder with one wrought of ivory made by Hephaestus and presented by Demeter. The revived Pelops was kidnapped by Poseidon and taken to Olympus. Later, Zeus threw Pelops out of Olympus due to his anger at Tantalus. The Greeks of classical times claimed to be horrified by Tantalus's doings; cannibalism, human sacrifice and infanticide were atrocities and taboo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalus

The more I read this stuff, the more I understand that the writers in the 19th century must have laughed their asses of when they had invented a new twist to be incorporated in this 'ancient chronicle'.

Ah ha yes, and Pelops is referred to as black faced actually. Well, it's what his name means.

In Greek mythology, Pelops (Greek Πέλοψ, from pelios: dark; and ops: face, eye), was king of Pisa in the Peloponnesus. He was the founder of the House of Atreus through his son of that name

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelops

So, we do indeed have black cannibal people in Lydia it seems. Silly me, I should have thought of that.

OK, so where did these black cannibal people come from into Lydia?

Aethiopia?

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Ah ha yes, and Pelops is referred to as black faced actually. Well, it's what his name means.

In Greek mythology, Pelops (Greek Πέλοψ, from pelios: dark; and ops: face, eye), was king of Pisa in the Peloponnesus. He was the founder of the House of Atreus through his son of that name

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelops

So, we do indeed have black cannibal people in Lydia it seems. Silly me, I should have thought of that.

OK, so where did these black cannibal people come from into Lydia?

Aethiopia?

Omg, don't you see it now??

There are no black cannibal people in Lydia.

The Lydians called themselves 'sfard', which sounds almost the same as the Dutch /Frisian 'swart/zwart' => BLACK

The writers of the OLB mixed and twisted to their heart's delight.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Well, I think there might have been people who firstly ate and then just sacrificed their babies or children and they were black and came in from Africa.

The references to both Troy and Aethiopia with Hesione and Andromeda being sacrificed to the Gods to save the towns from sea monsters as I might have already said.

They are sacrifing their children, then Agamemnon himself sacrifices his own daughter, Iphegenia to sail to Troy.

That is 3 daughters being sacrificed there - Heracles saves Hesione, Perseus saves Andromeda, seems these Greek heroes save these poor girls from being sacrificed, Iphegenia doesn't make it. AND it is Calchas, who divines this, he seems to be an Etruscan priest, he is shown diving a liver...but liver divining was huge in Babylon as well.

Sfard could mean black (Pelops black faced) and as the word changed and reached up where you are it became zwart, black.

I dunno but something is going on.

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Well, I think there might have been people who firstly ate and then just sacrificed their babies or children and they were black and came in from Africa.

The references to both Troy and Aethiopia with Hesione and Andromeda being sacrificed to the Gods to save the towns from sea monsters as I might have already said.

They are sacrifing their children, then Agamemnon himself sacrifices his own daughter, Iphegenia to sail to Troy.

That is 3 daughters being sacrificed there - Heracles saves Hesione, Perseus saves Andromeda, seems these Greek heroes save these poor girls from being sacrificed, Iphegenia doesn't make it. AND it is Calchas, who divines this, he seems to be an Etruscan priest, he is shown diving a liver...but liver divining was huge in Babylon as well.

Sfard could mean black (Pelops black faced) and as the word changed and reached up where you are it became zwart, black.

I dunno but something is going on.

"Something" is indeed going on, and I have been trying to tell you about it from page one...

And 'sfard' very probably has nothing to do with 'black', it's just that it sounds the same as the Dutch/Frisian 'zwart/swart'. You know, like so many people here jump to conclusions when they see a similar sounding word? Well, the writers of the OLB were real masters on that territory, and used it to their....uhmmm.. advantage.

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Yeah, maybe...

I'd say it had nothing to do with it if Pelops didn't mean black faced.

German schwarz - this word probably derived from the IE word, Persian word, Sfart/Sfard

The Sfarts

ˈʃvaɐ̯ts], - Sfartz Svartz Schwarz pronounced s v ae ts Blacks.

I say its the same word with an IE base from Persian that travelled into Europe and now its a Germanised form of it - Blacks = Sfarts

Edited by The Puzzler
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Yeah, maybe...

I'd say it had nothing to do with it if Pelops didn't mean black faced.

German schwarz - this word probably derived from the IE word, Persian word, Sfart/Sfard

The Sfarts

ˈʃvaɐ̯ts], - Sfartz Svartz Schwarz pronounced s v ae ts Blacks.

I say its the same word with an IE base from Persian that travelled into Europe and now its a Germanised form of it - Blacks = Sfarts

All those forms of 'swart' may be of Indo European origin, but they can only be found in Germanic languages:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/swart

And the Old Persian word for 'black'' is 'hind'.(in today's Persian it 'siah').

And in Hindi it's 'kali'.

I don't think the whole Lydian 'sfard' thing had anything to do with the black color.

--

EDIT:

I seems more likely it has to do with 'enclosure' or 'circle':

http://www.jstor.org/pss/264595

.

Edited by Abramelin
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I have heard that those Jstor pages won't show up for some, so in case you have troubles viewing it, here it is:

Lydian-Sfard.jpg

Now I can imagine that if I'd lived in the Lydian capital back then, and foreigners or some peasant asked me where I came from, that I said, "I come from the city", and nodding with my head to the direction my city was in.

It makes perfect sense, because even today people talk like that, talking to locals or others when they meet them in the countryside.

In English "Sfard" would then mean something like, "from the city", or a bit more twisted, "city-er".

But I don't think it would mean "blacks" or "Black heads" or "Black haired/eyed" or something like that.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Svarts = Svartalfar = Dark Elves.

Thank you Puzzler, you just made hot Drow women on topic for this thread.

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Svarts = Svartalfar = Dark Elves.

Thank you Puzzler, you just made hot Drow women on topic for this thread.

You are just taking her much further off topic, and I hope you know that I am doing my best to keep her in 'chains', lol.

Btw, you have some pics to show us?

:wub:

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You are just taking her much further off topic, and I hope you know that I am doing my best to keep her in 'chains', lol.

Yeah, I thought I'd shut her down on the Swedish thing and she was off and running on the Saami track instead without even breaking stride.

Eh, at the rate she's going, she'd've made the connection on her own eventually.

Btw, you have some pics to show us?

:wub:

Now, now, we can't be going off topic anymore, can we? ;)

Just try google image search for all your she-Drow needs. Preferably with safe search off. :D

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Yeah, I thought I'd shut her down on the Swedish thing and she was off and running on the Saami track instead without even breaking stride.

Eh, at the rate she's going, she'd've made the connection on her own eventually.

Now, now, we can't be going off topic anymore, can we? ;)

Just try google image search for all your she-Drow needs. Preferably with safe search off. :D

My Safe Search is always off; I am a guy, remember?? lol.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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lol Drow women, you boys!

OK, well I'm still pretty stuck on black people named in myth people of Pelops (black faced or even black eyed..)

It seems to me the early people of Sparta, possible Pelasgians..

Yes, 2 hints, Herodotus says the Athenians actually came in the same time as the Pelasgians but it's a bit of a Cabeiri mystery, Agamemnon was initiated into the Cabeiri, the Cabeiri are an Athenian thing because it's the cult of Hephaestus.

What about these Danaids, who come from the mysterious Danaans that came in from Egypt, so the myth tells us, descendants of Io, the bull cult of Apis, Serapis from Sinope, the Greek God they chose in Ptolemic Egypt.

The dark people that Herodotus saw in Colchis that spun flax were circumscised and he was convinced by their looks they were Egyptian or Libyan, is he really a liar????

The Danaids were able to understand the barbarian speech, why, because they bought it in, it is the Pelasgian language - the dark people, a NON Greek word, they CLAIM to descend from ANCESTORS in ancient Argos but they are of a DARK RACE like the women of Egypt and LIBYA.

In the Suppliants is mentioned:

The Danaids call the country the "Apian hills" and claim that it understands the karbana audan[9][10], which many translate as "barbarian speech" but Karba (where live the Karbanoi) is in fact a non-Greek word. They claim to descend from ancestors in ancient Argos even though they are of a "dark race" (melanthes ... genos).[11] Pelasgus admits that the land was once called Apia but compares them to the women of Libya and Egypt[12] and wants to know how they can be from Argos on which they cite descent from Io.

SO, what we have is what looks to be an incoming arrival, the Danaans, who are dark skinned, not coming in from Egypt with the Gods of Ammon (Zeus) but a group of people who came from Libya (The Siwa Oasis) who had already been trading with Crete for ages, I'd say much of the olive oil in the mountainous amounts of vats on Crete may have come from Palm Land, Siwa Oasis. The lineage of the Danaans makes them the Argives around Mycenae, the city of Perseus, of who Heracles was a part of, Heracles was a Perseid.

Perseus is the son of Danai, a Danaan and Zeus - Perseus seems then he might be dark, of Agamemnons people or allies, Mycenae has the lion's gate and this really imo comes in from Anatolia and the stories of the mother Goddess Cybele, it could be the people who came in from Libya and settled in Lydia were around the area of Phrygia.

Just back to the Phocaeans for a minute, which I'll get back to in a sec..you said Phoikiains meant dark, grey...well, I reckon that is GREY EYED Athena, Athena, she is said by Plato to have come in from Libya at the dawn of Greek civilisation via Crete.

Apian Hills, I reckon that is the hills that bees were kept and Plato mentions them, as once having hills and trees that sustained bees. Bee keeping and keeping bees alive can be seen all through, I personally don't think the Dutchess of York had bees on her wedding gown nor called her daughter Bea for no reason, following the bee around actually gives me the shivers. My main man Einstein over there poking his tongue out at us all, said mankind will only have years to live if the bees becomes extinct, important little creatures they are. Virgin Queens, while the drones attend to her, the Borg are based on a bee system, Queens, drones and the like.

So, anyway, looks me that people from the Siwa Oasis with Ammon the Ram God and possibly Heracles came into Asia Minor. Through Rhodes eventually into the land of Lydia, maybe also in around today's Beirut since Poseidon did win the hand of Berytus from Dionysus.

Was Io fair or was she dark if these people of the Apian Hills are dark and claim descent from Io - contrare to what is expected...

Melaine/Melanie - a Greek word for melanin, meaning black or dark skinned.

Let's have a look at some Mel ladies, lots of them nymphs loved by Apollo, mentioning they were regarded as wives of the Silver Race, silver is like Grey, Apollo shot silver arrows. Inachus must have been of this Silver Race. Grey - Phocaeans...

MELAENA (Melaine) A Naiad nymph of Mount Parnassus loved by the god Apollo.

MELANIPPE A prophetic nymph daughter of the centaur Chiron. She was transformed into a mare as punishment for revealing the secrets of the gods.

MELIA (1) The Oceanid nymph wife of the Argive river-god Inachus. ***The river God Inachus is the backbone of the same Argive line as Io.

MELIA (2) The Oceanid nymph of the sacred Ismenian spring of Thebes. She was loved by the god Apollo.

MELIA (3) The nymph mother of the Pelopennesian centaurs by the god Silenus.

MELIA (4) A nymph of Bithynia loved by the god Poseidon.

MELIA (5) A Bithynian nymph loved by the god Silenus.

MELIA (6) A nymph of the island of Ceos loved by Apollo.

MELIADES Dryad-nymphs of fruit-trees and orchards. ***A very important area for bees.

MELIAE (Meliai) Nymphs of ash-trees and honey bees. They were born born from the blood of the castrated sky-god Uranus along with the Giants and Curetes. The Melaie were the wives of the Silver Race of Man, and so the ancestresses of mankind.

MELIBOEA (1) (Meliboia) The Oceanid nymph wife of the first Arcadian king Pelasgus.

MELIBOEA (2) (Meliboia) An Oceanid nymph of Syria loved by the river Orontes.

MELICERTES (Melikertes) A boy transformed into a sea-god, after his mother Ino leapt with him into the sea.

MELINOE A spectral underworld goddess who haunted the night with her train of ghosts.

MELISSAE (Melissai) Nymphs of honey bees. ****Of course.

MELISSEUS The old Curete god of honey and honey-mead. His two daughters, Ida and Adrasteia, were nurses of the god Zeus.

MELITE (1) A Naiad nymph of the island of the Phaeacians. She was seduced by Heracles. *** OK, now we are getting somewhere...Phaeacians.

MELITE (2) A Naiad nymph daughter of the river Erasinus who, with her sisters, was an attendant of the goddess Britomartis.

MELPOMENE The Muse of tragedy

http://www.theoi.com/Encyc_M.html

I see them all related to the dark skinned bee keeper people of the Apian Hills. Loved by Apollo. Wives of the silver race, the Phaeacians. The Phocaeans of Lydia.

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This is such a cool article, this guy gets transferred to Lapland and decides he'll investigate Santa.

I gather Santa's elves would be quite dark since the Sami Laplanders were hardly blonde Nordics.

I'll paste some here, appropriately titled Lapp Of The Gods:

I never dreamed that one day I would live in Lapland, the traditional home of Santa Claus; but in 1999 I accepted a three-year contract as Professor in International Contemporary Art to teach at Umeå University in northern Sweden. Lapland (or Sàpmi) extends across northern Sweden, Finland, Norway, and the Kola Peninsula in Russia. It is the homeland of the Lapps, more correctly called the Saami. In Lapland, I regularly wore a fur-trimmed coat while travelling through the snow in the Arctic wilderness by way of a reindeer sleigh. I frequently dined on huge reindeer steaks and, like Santa, I became rounder and jollier while my beard turned hoarier with each passing day.

When I first arrived in the Land of Hoarfrost, I was puzzled by the enigmatic heraldic symbol of Lapland, the Wildman, a hairy, reddish, bestial character dressed in leaves, wielding a gnarled club. I collected vague reports of an actual Swedish Wildman (Snömannen), a yeti-like creature believed to inhabit the remote areas of the forest. One day when wandering through the wilds of Lapland I beheld an astonishing thing: a colossal statue of the Wildman painted bright red with a snowy white beard (opposite page). From a distance it looked like Santa Claus. As I stood at the base, staring up at the Herculean statue, it hit me like a hunk of red-hot ejecta from Mount Hekla: Santa Claus, the Wildman, and Snömannen must spring from the same ancient source.

The mediæval Wildman or Wodewose was described as a grotesque, bestial, ape-like creature – dark, filthy, and bearded. His body was covered in thick matted hair (later often replaced by leaves) and gave off a foul odour. He was sometimes depicted as horned, with a prominent penis or wielding a club. He was considered frenzied and insane, the personification of lust and debauchery. He was known to mate with humans. His habitat was the northern woods where he lived in a cave or den. His traditional beast of burden was the reindeer.

The Wildman is known in various regions as Chläus, Div, Djadek, Jass, Kinderfresser (child eater), Klapperbok, Old Scratch, Thomasniklo, and Schrat. Over the ages, the brutal Wildman figure evolved into a character more like a clown or holiday fool. The progenitors of Santa Claus like Aschenklas (ash) were likewise depicted as wildmen: hoary, bearded, and filthy with ash or soot.

Santa’s original helpers (before he got the elves) are dark, devilish, reprobate wildmen covered in soot such as the Dark One, Dark Helper, Krampus, Julgubben, Zwarte Piet, Black Peter, Cinder Cläus, Fool Claus, Klawes, Claws, Pelzmarte, Pelz Nickel, and Ru Klas. The word “ru” means “rough clothes,” calling to mind cross-dresser RuPaul, known for his renditions of Christmas classics such as “RuPaul the Red-Nosed Drag Queen” from his Rhino Records album, Ho, Ho, Ho.

It is widely agreed that Santa Claus is based in Lapland, but exactly where is a matter of national pride. The Finns claim he lives under a mountain in Rovaniemi, Finland, and the Swedes insist he lives in a meteor crater near Mora, Sweden. I decided to see firsthand where Santa lives, so I made a pilgrimage to the Santa Park complex in Rovaniemi. The Santa Village is what you would expect: alpine-type gingerbread cottages, elf workshops, wedding chapel, Arctic Circle Post Office, and an extensive gift shop mall (with an exhaustive supply of fake Saami handicrafts and berry preserves).

In Santa’s Office, one can have an audience with the enthroned Santa (Joulupukki or Yule pixie) himself. The Office features a library with huge books labelled for each continent where Santa keeps precise records of all who have been naughty or nice – like The Lamb’s Book of Life: “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:15) Instead of a reindeer sleigh, Joulupukki rides a surly goat named Ukko.

From the Village I rode a cheerful little train through the forest and disembarked at the foot of a peculiar hill called Mount Ear, where I beheld an arched, red lacquered pagoda-like portal – the sublime entrance to subterranean Santa Park. Like Dante, I descended a passageway hewn from solid rock for what seemed to be miles into the very bowels of the Earth. In my head played “The Hall of the Mountain King” by Edvard Grieg. The walls of the tunnel (or ear canal) slowly turned from stone to galvanised steel. At last I entered the central chamber occupied by a towering Reindeer Carousel, topped off with a gigantic Bavarian cuckoo clock.

I noticed that the walls and ceiling of the chamber were trimmed with Christmas tinsel – a little like Vegas, but somehow all wrong. Upon closer inspection, the walls were too high-tech for just an amusement park. I inspected the inner doors to the cuckoo-carousel room (in badly painted imitation woodgrain). The semicircular door mechanism was made of solid steel, heavier than vault doors I had seen in Swiss banks or Austrian treasure chambers. They were freaking nuclear blast doors! I theorised that the whole damn Santa Complex was a massive camouflaged atomic bomb shelter.

No wonder, since nearby on the Kola Peninsula is the network of missile silos forming Moscow’s Forward Land Defence System. In addition, Lapland was ground zero for the Chernobyl fallout, causing the reindeer to be radioactive for some years. The reindeer’s main food source, a type of lichen (Cladonia rangiferina), is still contaminated in some areas. I pestered one of the Santa Village elves, who finally admitted that the entire population of Rovaniemi could be housed safely in the structure within 24 hours notice of nuclear war. Obviously, the Finns had built themselves one hell of a fallout shelter. It is comforting to know that after worldwide nuclear devastation, Santa will step forward, alive and safe, to greet the post-apocalyptic world.

Santa world

In Sweden, Santa (Jultomten) lives in Tomteland, also known as Santa World. A gigantic meteor struck central Sweden 360,000,000 years ago, with the impact of 1,000 atomic bombs. It blasted out a crater that eventually filled with water, becoming Lake Siljan. The high mountains around the lake are actually sides of the crater, and here at the base of Mount Gesunda, Swedish Santa built his workshop. Jultomten is akin to the King-of-the-Forest-type wildman: stout, bearded, dressed in furs. He cares for animals and has shamanistic powers over the elements.

According to legend, Jultomten lived deep in the forest long before he showed himself to humans. It is said that Santa used to roam around the Swedes’ farms during the night. He would creepy-crawl into children’s rooms, touching them to bestow prophetic dreams. To this day, on Christmas Eve, Swedes still leave porridge, milk, or tobacco to appease the mischievous old elf, similar to Americans leaving milk and cookies for Santa.

In Tomteland, Santa lives with his helpers: trolls, a witch, and the Snow Queen. The Scandinavian Lutheran Church has replaced the pagan fairy queens of yore (disir) with Christian holy figures such as the Christkind, Christpuppe (Christ elf), and Santa Lucia, a young blonde girl in a white flowing gown, wearing a golden crown with burning candles. In Sweden, Santa Lucia (from lux, meaning “light”) arrives on the shortest and darkest day of winter as the symbol of victory over darkness. She is the Queen of Light.

Lucia’s assistants are the Star Boys, who were originally, like the Wildman, dressed in furs with blackened faces. They now wear pointed wizards’ hats and wave magic wands with a star on the end. In other Scandinavian areas, St Lussi (more like Lucifer), is a man dressed in goat skins (like Julbok, the Christmas goat) with a devil mask and horns. Lussi threatens to disembowel children who have been naughty.

Lapp Yuletide

Christmas is a festive holiday in Sàpmi (the Saami homeland). The Saami await a Yuletide visit from a giant horned and hairy wildman named Stallo. In Lappish, “stallo” means “metal-man.” Sometimes Stallo is dressed in stylish, all-black clothes like an MIB (Man in Black) or in a metallic suit, reminiscent of a robot or ancient astronaut in a spacesuit. Most likely the metal suit was the chain mail armour of the berserker Vikings.

The amoral Stallo delights in macabre acts of genital mutilation of his innocent victims. He pokes his staff up the skirts of young girls. On Christmas Eve, he rides around in his sleigh looking for something to drink.

Traditionally, the Saami drive a stake into the ground near a fresh water supply so Stallo can tie up his sled while having a refreshing gulp of water. If Stallo cannot find anything to drink, he will bash in a child’s skull, sucking out the brains and blood to satiate his ravenous thirst.

Stallo’s sleigh is not pulled by reindeer but by a pack of lemmings. Arctic lemmings (Lemmus lemmus) are common in Lapland and are detested by the Lapps, as they are known to have a nasty bite. In 1555, Olaus Magnus, the last Catholic Primate of Sweden (who was in the north selling indulgences to the sinful Swedes) recorded reports of lemmings raining from the sky over Lapland. He believed that the lemmings spontaneously generated in the clouds over Lapland as a punishment from God for the people’s idolatrous ways.

Christmas Eve is the most dangerous night for Lapp children. Stallo lurks about looking for naughty children to cram into his sack. A Saami legend tells of one scary Christmas: three brothers decided to play games instead of going to church. They wanted to have some fun gutting a reindeer, but as none was to be found, the youngest brother volunteered instead. After the boy was slaughtered and disembowelled, and the sparkling white snow spattered with blood, the two remaining brothers began to cook his flesh.

Stallo smelled the savoury aroma of roasting human flesh and leapt into action, killing one boy instantly. The other brother tried to escape. He hid in a locked chest, but clever Stallo blew red-hot embers through the keyhole, burning the child alive. (The Native Americans of the Pacific Northwest have a similar character named Steta’l, a Bigfoot-like mountain giant who also kidnaps children.) In northern Sweden, archæological evidence of Stallo can be found, called Stallo Graves (also Stallo-sites or stalotomter). They are in fact the remains of ancient circular hut foundations.

http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/134/lapp_of_the_gods.html

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Hmmmm... 'stuck on 'black people'...did you really read the Jstor article I posted??

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