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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


Riaan

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And now Google 'magi' and click on Google images...

http://www.google.nl/images?hl=nl&rlz=1T4GZEZ_nlNL249NL249&q=Magi&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi

The first few hundred or so are about the Three Magi who visited Jesus, lol.

Hello, wasn't the OLB, according to the sceptics, all about religions and believers and all that??

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If I was to think suss, I could be inclined to think the book has been written with the new knowledge at the time of the Finno-Urgit language and how the 2 people, the Magyars/Hungarians and Finns spoke the same kind of language.

The Magyar, not wild like MOST of Finda's people, could be referring to them being sort of like Finda's people.

The Finns and Magyars in the OLB seem to be the same people with Finns as the regular people and Magyar as the priest kings. Finno-Urgit people who are related to both Finns and Magyar. Finno-Urgit was worked out before Indo-European in the mid 1800's.

Finda's people might be the Sami.

In the OLB this is set just after the bad times, c. 2000BC.

One conclusion was that the ancestors of the Finns arrived in their present territory thousands of years ago, perhaps in many successive waves of immigration. During this immigration, the possible linguistic and cultural ancestors of the hunting-gathering Sami were pushed into the more remote northern regions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_people

Although I'm still not quite sure how Kashmir is Findasland...

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If I was to think suss, I could be inclined to think the book has been written with the new knowledge at the time of the Finno-Urgit language and how the 2 people, the Magyars/Hungarians and Finns spoke the same kind of language.

The Magyar, not wild like MOST of Finda's people, could be referring to them being sort of like Finda's people.

The Finns and Magyars in the OLB seem to be the same people with Finns as the regular people and Magyar as the priest kings. Finno-Urgit people who are related to both Finns and Magyar. Finno-Urgit was worked out before Indo-European in the mid 1800's.

Finda's people might be the Sami.

In the OLB this is set just after the bad times, c. 2000BC.

One conclusion was that the ancestors of the Finns arrived in their present territory thousands of years ago, perhaps in many successive waves of immigration. During this immigration, the possible linguistic and cultural ancestors of the hunting-gathering Sami were pushed into the more remote northern regions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_people

Although I'm still not quite sure how Kashmir is Findasland...

OK, but did the Magyar/Finns have priest-kings ("Magi""), churches (=temples) and statues?

Not that I know of, but the Magi of the Middle East certainly fit that description.

So what I am saying is that two very different peoples with similar names were nit together to create a new people.

Something about that guy with Buddha on the statue, you say:

"lol not just on that, he appears shortish and with European features. He was represented like Heracles too..."

First this: I know many Hindustan people, and apart from their brown skin their physical features are very like those of Europeans.

But then... they almost all are a lot shorter than Europeans (well, at least shorter than north-west Europeans)

EDIT:

What is 'suss'??

Edited by Abramelin
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Silly me, OK, have had a read of Alewyn's book here and it seems he has answered it for me and then on more research I think he makes perfect sense.

HerodotusMap.jpg

On that Herodotus map you can see Germanii, right near Eastern Ethiopes. Near Uti Mycae and Arii.

By the way, these guys sounded very melancholy lol, those priests had everyone pretty sad..Melanchlaeni (meaning "black-cloaks") may refer to two ancient tribes. One is a tribe mentioned by Herodotus that lived north of Scythia. They have been identified by some with various Finnic tribes[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanchlaeni

Moving on...

OK, how is Kashmir Findasland??

...obviously from when the Geertmen arrived c. 1552BC. This may be the stories of Dionysus also in Greek myth.

These Medians must have had quite some pull, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon were built for the wife of the King of Babylon cause she missed her green hilled homeland of Medea. This may have been when the Chaldean Magi got a hold c. 500BC back into Babylon to which we know them best. If the wife wanted her priests with her, I'm sure wifey got her priests if they went to that much trouble to give her a garden.

Edited by The Puzzler
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OK, but did the Magyar/Finns have priest-kings ("Magi""), churches (=temples) and statues?

Not that I know of, but the Magi of the Middle East certainly fit that description.

So what I am saying is that two very different peoples with similar names were nit together to create a new people.

Something about that guy with Buddha on the statue, you say:

"lol not just on that, he appears shortish and with European features. He was represented like Heracles too..."

First this: I know many Hindustan people, and apart from their brown skin their physical features are very like those of Europeans.

But then... they almost all are a lot shorter than Europeans (well, at least shorter than north-west Europeans)

EDIT:

What is 'suss'??

Suss is suspect...being a bit suspect about the authors. On your side, in other words..lol

He looked like that apparently because the Greeks made the statues.

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OK, I want to quote Alewyn's book so we can stay on topic here nut don't feel like copytyping so let's look at his own site on it and go through some parts...

Chapter 1 Describes the catastrophe

Chapter 2 - Chapter 2 - The Fryan Federation

Chapter 2 examines the Oera Linda Books description of their hereto unknown civilization in Western Europe. Their geographical location, socio-political dispensation, religion and iron age level of development is described and compared with ancient scribes from Greece. The comparisons and analyses reveal astonishing results. It explains in detail the origins of the "Greek" Alphabet, Indo-Arabian numerals, the 24 hour day, democracy, free enterprise and monotheism. In fact, apart from technology, their society and culture were on a par with modern Western Civilization. Until now historians and archaeologists considered Europe to have been inhabited by Stone-age Neolithics at the time when in fact it was the most advanced civilization on earth.

Chapter 3 - Legacy of the Outcasts

After the Global disaster of 2193 BC, survivors from Central Asia and the Far East migrated into Europe and Scandinavia. This inevitably brought them in conflict with the inhabitants of Europe. The Oera Linda Books account is compared with modern genetic and linguistic theories as well as with numerous scribes from antiquity. In every instance the books claims are proven as fact. Some very fascinating incidents are recounted. The chapter details the events that lead to the founding of Tyre, Marseilles, Athens and Rome.

It also explains the origins of the Celts, the Gauls and the Phoenicians. The Phoenicians advancement to naval dominance of the Mediterranean, as well as the origins of the Hyksos Dynasty in Lower Egypt is attributed to migrants from Western Europe.

Your claim Abe that the flood was in Asia seems to even gel with what Alewyn is saying since he sees survivors from Central Asia and the Far East migrating into Europe and Scandinavia - so...this gets to his theory of the impact c. 2200BC but if you say that the flood actually was in Aldland, which was Findasland, that is Kashmere - and it was this Biblical flood of the Tarim basin area - it still places a flood in this area that led to their migration to Scandinavia.

Chapter 4 describes the founding and early years of Athens and the Hellenic civilization by refugees from present day Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands; from 1628 BC to ca 1556 BC. It shows that democracy was not a Greek invention, but originated in Western Europe. It relates the establishment of the Middle Minoan Civilization on the Island of Crete as well as the origins of the mysterious "Sea People" we encounter in Egyptian history and who had such a profound influence on later developments in Turkey and Anatolia (Asia Minor). The Minoan Civilization was only discovered in the 20th century. Special mention is made of the Barbarians, or speakers of the "Bar-bar" language. It is suggested that they were in fact the bearers of civilization. The Greeks and Spartans on the other hand, were the savages. Alexander the Great did not propagate civilization but abrogated the advanced empires of Phrygia and Persia. If anything, he destroyed civilization; unlike the biased accounts of the ancient Greek historians. Again, every statement is substantiated by modern discoveries and numerous scribes from antiquity.

chapter4.jpg

Alewyn, I'm not really getting this part:

1....Are you saying the Fryans who arrived in 300BC, when they spoke of the Yrans, were actually speaking of the people who had become Persians, developing from the arrival of the real Aryans, the Frisians and Norse in 1550BC?

2....The Finno-Urgic people arrived in the form of the Magyar/Finns into Scandinavia c. 2100BC from the Altai, these were not Aryans, the priests of the Magyar - so the Shamans of the Steppes moved into Scandinavia ----

What relationship do you say these people had to the Sami?

Edited by The Puzzler
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Silly me, OK, have had a read of Alewyn's book here and it seems he has answered it for me and then on more research I think he makes perfect sense.

HerodotusMap.jpg

On that Herodotus map you can see Germanii, right near Eastern Ethiopes. Near Uti Mycae and Arii.

By the way, these guys sounded very melancholy lol, those priests had everyone pretty sad..Melanchlaeni (meaning "black-cloaks") may refer to two ancient tribes. One is a tribe mentioned by Herodotus that lived north of Scythia. They have been identified by some with various Finnic tribes[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanchlaeni

Moving on...

OK, how is Kashmir Findasland??

...obviously from when the Geertmen arrived c. 1552BC. This may be the stories of Dionysus also in Greek myth.

These Medians must have had quite some pull, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon were built for the wife of the King of Babylon cause she missed her green hilled homeland of Medea. This may have been when the Chaldean Magi got a hold c. 500BC back into Babylon to which we know them best. If the wife wanted her priests with her, I'm sure wifey got her priests if they went to that much trouble to give her a garden.

That's a really nice map you posted. Is it from Alewyn's book??

I never saw a Herodotes map this big and clear.

So the Indian people (or Persian people) are also called Ethiopians?

-

Yes, I posted a little before this about a Sarmatian tribe mentioned by Herodotes, and Strabo called them Ugroi.

And again yes, the Medians, to which the Magi belonged, were very influential in the Middle East according to old Greek accounts.

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OK< Puzz, I will answer your question, and hope Alwyn will answer the rest.

Your claim Abe that the flood was in Asia seems to even gel with what Alewyn is saying since he sees survivors from Central Asia and the Far East migrating into Europe and Scandinavia - so...this gets to his theory of the impact c. 2200BC but if you say that the flood actually was in Aldland, which was Findasland, that is Kashmere - and it was this Biblical flood of the Tarim basin area - it still places a flood in this area that led to their migration to Scandinavia.

From what I understood from reading the OLB, the flood, the submergence of land, erupting volcanoes ( > erupting volcanoes also in Twiskland) and so on, all took place in Aldland, the homeland of the Finda people. And according to what the OLB says, Aldland, the "Old Land", was in the east, in Asia.

But I remember that Alewyn once posted that according to what he read in the OLB, Aldland was in the west. However, nowhere does the OLB say it was in the west. It is only suggested by the travels of Inka and Nep Tunis, just before Nep Tunis entered the Middle Sea: Inka went in another direction, and said he hoped to find some remnants of the lost Atland/Aldland. If you assume - like most do - that the Middle Sea was indeed the Mediterannean and not some puddle in Friesland, then it would make sense to locate Aldland west, in the Atlantic.

But the description of the Finda people and that the 'pure' Finda people claimed they came from an area near the Himalaya seems to contradict all this.

I have said it before: if Aldland was in the Atlantic, and it's native people, the Finda, had to flee, why would they end up near Kashmir, or near the Himalaya?

You would expect when you have to flee a terrible disaster like that with maybe many thousands of people, you not go sail half the earth before going ashore somewhere.

===

EDIT:

I was thinking about something else, something which has bugged me for a long time..

Aldland was the name of the homeland of the Finda people. It was called 'Atland' by the 'Stjurjar', (Dutch) 'Stuurlui', (or Pliny's 'Sturii') or simply sailors.

In the whole OLB we see many and detailed descriptions of many tribes and peoples, where they come from, where they live, their character, laws, religion, and so on.

OK, but have you - or anyone - read anything about the tribes and peoples and everything on this 'Aldland/Atland'??

All we know is that the Finda came from Aldland, and that's it.

Now if you do as I do, and that is being sure the OLB is an elaborate fabulation, then this is no surprise: no one knew anything of what happened on Aldland. Back in the 19th century they of course knew what Plato and later others had said about Atlantis, but it was only untill Blavatsky, Donnelly and Cayce started talking about it that people began having ideas about it's location and the people living on it. And the three persons I mentioned all started publishing after the OLB.

The Finda people, btw, were not the great civilization as described by Plato and the three above.

To me it's like the true 19th century authors of the OLB didn't want to burn their fingers on this, so they gave some very vague descriptions, one maybe pointing at the Atlantic ("Atlantis"), another pointing to the far east, the Aldland ("Old Land"), or Eden (or east of Eden).

.

Edited by Abramelin
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That's a really nice map you posted. Is it from Alewyn's book??

I never saw a Herodotes map this big and clear.

So the Indian people (or Persian people) are also called Ethiopians?

-

Yes, I posted a little before this about a Sarmatian tribe mentioned by Herodotes, and Strabo called them Ugroi.

And again yes, the Medians, to which the Magi belonged, were very influential in the Middle East according to old Greek accounts.

I'm back...sorry, I don't think I added a link for the Herodotus map which I should have....

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Bios/HerodotusMap.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Live/Writer/Herodotus.htm&h=939&w=1500&sz=193&tbnid=BjzIlzOV0GAsXM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dherodotus%2Bmap&zoom=1&usg=__lrk-yCKAn6T8immTcNAryF1uJXI=&sa=X&ei=PURtTN7FLZKEvAPt0M2bDQ&ved=0CBsQ9QEwAQ'>http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Bios/HerodotusMap.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Live/Writer/Herodotus.htm&h=939&w=1500&sz=193&tbnid=BjzIlzOV0GAsXM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dherodotus%2Bmap&zoom=1&usg=__lrk-yCKAn6T8immTcNAryF1uJXI=&sa=X&ei=PURtTN7FLZKEvAPt0M2bDQ&ved=0CBsQ9QEwAQ

or try this one if that other didn't work..I know you don't really need the link now but I should have added one.

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Bios/HerodotusMap.jpg

OK...

Edited by The Puzzler
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I'm back...sorry, I don't think I added a link for the Herodotus map which I should have....

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Bios/HerodotusMap.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Live/Writer/Herodotus.htm&h=939&w=1500&sz=193&tbnid=BjzIlzOV0GAsXM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dherodotus%2Bmap&zoom=1&usg=__lrk-yCKAn6T8immTcNAryF1uJXI=&sa=X&ei=PURtTN7FLZKEvAPt0M2bDQ&ved=0CBsQ9QEwAQ'>http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Bios/HerodotusMap.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Live/Writer/Herodotus.htm&h=939&w=1500&sz=193&tbnid=BjzIlzOV0GAsXM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dherodotus%2Bmap&zoom=1&usg=__lrk-yCKAn6T8immTcNAryF1uJXI=&sa=X&ei=PURtTN7FLZKEvAPt0M2bDQ&ved=0CBsQ9QEwAQ

or try this one if that other didn't work..I know you don't really need the link now but I should have added one.

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Bios/HerodotusMap.jpg

OK...

Ah, ok. Normally I check the url of a posted image, but I didn't do it this time, or else I would not have needed to ask.

Still, a nice map. Thanks.

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That Eastern Ethiopia, which Herodotus does mention as there in his writings, except I'm pretty sure he says their hair is not as frizzy as the African Ethiopians...something like that.

It seems this is the area of the real Aethiopia of Andromeda. Since her uncle's name is Phineus, which, come on, how European is that?? he might be Germanic from this Germanii. The name of a people called the Daan's is mentioned in same area, now, this could be the Danaans, of who Danae was part of, she conceived Perseus from a shower of gold, meaning, even though she was locked away for fear of her getting pregnant, being showered in gold is hard to resist and Danae fell for the riches of Zeus and conceived Perseus, who wears a winged (Celtic) type helmet.

It is possible that Perseus was born in Germanii (using the name on Herodotus map) from the Frisians who travelled into India with a woman of this Ethiopia, their was children of this union, Perses went on to become the ancestor of the Persians they say and related to the Spartans. Perses, it seems, has been born in this Germanii/Ethiopia area and this is the same area the Persians developed.

-----

He's saying both (I think)....the impact in the Indian Ocean caused upheavals in the East and the West. Then there was an island called Frisland in the sea and it was maybe Aldland/Atland, Atlas, Atlantic, should I say it...ouch, I will, Atlantis!! :devil:

Here's the deal though, if you sailed out the Atlantic, which Christopher Columbus did, a Genoan by the way, that is, the area of the Ligurians, where the Phocaeans landed, near Marseilles...he head out convinced he'd find...INDIA!

Yes, I believe it could mean that India was seen to be in the Atlantic Ocean IF you could sail more West to it. Once you imagined a sphere you would see the Atlantic between Spain and India - just like Columbus did. He fulfilled what those sea going Ligurians had been wanting to know for thousands of years.

BUT I'd have to read up more on this island of Frisland first, as I think I missed that part.

The catastrophe does seem to affect the area of Frya too, with fires in the German forest etc. This is when the Finda people came through. The sea faring men called it Aldland.

Next part of book:

Chapter 5 - Expulsion

In ca 1556 BC a revolt broke out in Athens. Elements of the original founders were expelled and fled to India. During the same period, in ca 1525 BC, the Hyksos Dynasty in Lower Egypt came to a fall and were forced to flee to Palestine where they settled in and around Jerusalem. The expulsion of the Hyksos from the Nile Delta is ascribed to the economic policies of the Biblical Vice- Pharaoh, Joseph. These developments coincided with a massive eruption of the Thera Volcano on the Santorini Islands. The chapter relates the interaction between the Frisians, the Jews, the Hyksos, the Egyptians and the Philistines and how Jewish and Egyptian religion was first introduced and influenced by the monotheists from Western Europe.

http://impactsurvivors.com/summaries.html

I need to read Chapter 5.

Edited by The Puzzler
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That Eastern Ethiopia, which Herodotus does mention as there in his writings, except I'm pretty sure he says their hair is not as frizzy as the African Ethiopians...something like that.

It seems this is the area of the real Aethiopia of Andromeda. Since her uncle's name is Phineus, which, come on, how European is that?? he might be Germanic from this Germanii. The name of a people called the Daan's is mentioned in same area, now, this could be the Danaans, of who Danae was part of, she conceived Perseus from a shower of gold, meaning, even though she was locked away for fear of her getting pregnant, being showered in gold is hard to resist and Danae fell for the riches of Zeus and conceived Perseus, who wears a winged (Celtic) type helmet.

It is possible that Perseus was born in Germanii (using the name on Herodotus map) from the Frisians who travelled into India with a woman of this Ethiopia, their was children of this union, Perses went on to become the ancestor of the Persians they say and related to the Spartans. Perses, it seems, has been born in this Germanii/Ethiopia area and this is the same area the Persians developed.

-----

He's saying both (I think)....the impact in the Indian Ocean caused upheavals in the East and the West. Then there was an island called Frisland in the sea and it was maybe Aldland/Atland, Atlas, Atlantic, should I say it...ouch, I will, Atlantis!! :devil:

Here's the deal though, if you sailed out the Atlantic, which Christopher Columbus did, a Genoan by the way, that is, the area of the Ligurians, where the Phocaeans landed, near Marseilles...he head out convinced he'd find...INDIA!

Yes, I believe it could mean that India was seen to be in the Atlantic Ocean IF you could sail more West to it. Once you imagined a sphere you would see the Atlantic between Spain and India - just like Columbus did. He fulfilled what those sea going Ligurians had been wanting to know for thousands of years.

BUT I'd have to read up more on this island of Frisland first, as I think I missed that part.

The catastrophe does seem to affect the area of Frya too, with fires in the German forest etc. This is when the Finda people came through. The sea faring men called it Aldland.

Next part of book:

Chapter 5 - Expulsion

In ca 1556 BC a revolt broke out in Athens. Elements of the original founders were expelled and fled to India. During the same period, in ca 1525 BC, the Hyksos Dynasty in Lower Egypt came to a fall and were forced to flee to Palestine where they settled in and around Jerusalem. The expulsion of the Hyksos from the Nile Delta is ascribed to the economic policies of the Biblical Vice- Pharaoh, Joseph. These developments coincided with a massive eruption of the Thera Volcano on the Santorini Islands. The chapter relates the interaction between the Frisians, the Jews, the Hyksos, the Egyptians and the Philistines and how Jewish and Egyptian religion was first introduced and influenced by the monotheists from Western Europe.

http://impactsurvivors.com/summaries.html

I need to read Chapter 5.

Short reply first: there is a whole thread about Friesland Island. You better read up on that; lots of info there.

But maybe you remember what I posted (there or in this thread): The Faroer were inhabited by Frisian pirates, and no doubt they will have called the Faroer "Frisland Island".

And then in that other thread there's a lot of marine geological info, although we went a bit of topic there, now and then, lol.

Hmm... something else: Aldland/Atland submerged 2193 BC. Frisland Island was still above sea level in our middle ages. Frisland Island can never have been Aldland.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Short reply first: there is a whole thread about Friesland Island. You better read up on that; lost of info there.

Oh yes, the submarine thing? was it?...I have been so busy here I haven't had much time to check other topics...

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Oh yes, the submarine thing? was it?...I have been so busy here I haven't had much time to check other topics...

Maybe you read what convinced me that the Faroer were Frisland Island, apart from what I later posted there:

Link-1-

Link -2 -

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Righto, just checked it out. I want some archaeological evidence of the earliest people on Faroe Islands but I can't seem to find anything very early like c. 2200BC. Seems into AD before anything happens there.

What I note is the Faroe Islands, rather than the name Friesland Islands seems to hold better with people from Faro, of Gotland.

That was why before I missed the Faroe, I was on Faro. lol Which still means sheep in Swedish, so Swedes found the Faroe Islands and named them sheep islands but the Faro Island is named for it being Far-o and Gurtnish, which in Swedish means sheep.

There might have been sheep left by monks from Scotland when Saint Brendan arrived c. 490AD.

So, was the Faroe Islands actually called the Sheep Islands being a Swedish term for them or were they called Faro(e) Islands because they were Far Away and named by Gurtnish people from Gotland?....I wonder.

The name "Fårö" (in Gutnish "Faroy") is derived from the words "ö", meaning island, and "far-", which is a word associated with travel like in the Swedish word "farled" (fairway). The word Fårö probably means the island you have to travel to or the traveler's island. Mainland Swedes might misinterpret the name Fårö to be derived from får, the Swedish word for sheep, due to the many sheep on the island. However, the Gutnish word for sheep is "lamb".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A5r%C3%B6

Faroe:85px-Coat_of_arms_of_the_Faroe_Islands.svg.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faroe_Islands

Gotland: 100px-Gotland_vapen.svg.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotland

The Gotlandic flag displays the Gotlandic coat of arms, white on red ground, known from the 13th century in the shape of the seal of the Gotlandic Republic with the proud ram. It reads: "Gutenses signo xpistus signatur in agno". This can be translated as follows: "I (the ram) am the sign of the Gotlanders. The lamb symbolizes Christ".

Edited by The Puzzler
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Righto, just checked it out. I want some archaeological evidence of the earliest people on Faroe Islands but I can't seem to find anything very early like c. 2200BC. Seems into AD before anything happens there.

What I note is the Faroe Islands, rather than the name Friesland Islands seems to hold better with people from Faro, of Gotland.

That was why before I missed the Faroe, I was on Faro. lol Which still means sheep in Swedish, so Swedes found the Faroe Islands and named them sheep islands but the Faro Island is named for it being Far-o and Gurtnish, which in Swedish means sheep.

There might have been sheep left by monks from Scotland when Saint Brendan arrived c. 490AD.

So, was the Faroe Islands actually called the Sheep Islands being a Swedish term for them or were they called Faro(e) Islands because they were Far Away and named by Gurtnish people from Gotland?....I wonder.

The name "Fårö" (in Gutnish "Faroy") is derived from the words "ö", meaning island, and "far-", which is a word associated with travel like in the Swedish word "farled" (fairway). The word Fårö probably means the island you have to travel to or the traveler's island. Mainland Swedes might misinterpret the name Fårö to be derived from får, the Swedish word for sheep, due to the many sheep on the island. However, the Gutnish word for sheep is "lamb".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A5r%C3%B6

Faroe:85px-Coat_of_arms_of_the_Faroe_Islands.svg.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faroe_Islands

Gotland: 100px-Gotland_vapen.svg.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotland

The Gotlandic flag displays the Gotlandic coat of arms, white on red ground, known from the 13th century in the shape of the seal of the Gotlandic Republic with the proud ram. It reads: "Gutenses signo xpistus signatur in agno". This can be translated as follows: "I (the ram) am the sign of the Gotlanders. The lamb symbolizes Christ".

OK, so Nordic people settled the Faroe first, or maybe Irish monks.

But that still doesn't take away the very big possibility that it were Frisain pirates living there who gave it the name "Frisland Island", after their own people.

Lol, I wonder what flag these Frisian pirates gave to their "Friesland Island".. a longboat??

But yes, it appears the Faroe were first settled in the early middle ages. and not like 2200 BC or earlier.

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I truly believe the Gotlanders on their little sickle shaped island and labyrinths are the key to this whole Frisian thing.

Gotlanders of the Viking Era are depicted as city people, more sophisticated and cosmopolitan than other Scandinavians of their time, and proud of their knowledge and skills.

It's been inhabited for eons - tick archaeology box.

It has labyrinths there - tick Celtic link box.

It has iron axes, history of knowledge and sailing skills - tick matching history box.

It has an island called Faro, which now has a lighthouse, called of course, the Faro Lighthouse - and stinky seals tick matches the story of Proteus of Pharos (Poseidons chief sealherder) box.

It is right near Heille, the Sea of Helle, Hellespont (in the Baltic) - tick connection to Argonaut myth.

It is just across from the Vistula River where amber was collected - tick ancient trade with Mycenaean box.

The island is the home of the Gutar (the Gotlanders), and sites such as Ajvide show that it has been occupied since prehistory. Early on Gotland became a commercial center and the town of Visby was the most important Hanseatic city in the Baltic Sea. In late medieval times, the island had twenty district courts (tings), each represented by its elected judge at the island-ting, called landsting. New laws were decided at the landsting, which also took other decisions regarding the island as a whole.

They had courts called tings, which is the same word Frisians use for them, as seen in Roman times with thier Martis Thingus, meaning Mars of the Thing, Mars of the Ting, Mars of the Court, Mound of Aries, again, all connected back to Tiw.

The site of Ajvide is located on the western coast of Gotland, Sweden, in the parish of Eksta. It covers an area of 200,000 square metres and was occupied from the Late Mesolithic through to the mid Bronze Age. The majority of the activity on the site took place during the Middle Neolithic period (3100 - 2700 BC). This phase of activity belongs to the Pitted Ware culture.[1]

Around 2900 BC, the site suffered from a marine transgression.[1]

The principal feature of the site is a burial ground containing some 80 graves. In some cases the graves are occupied by more than one individual, whilst others may be cenotaphs. Most of these graves date to later than the main phase of Pitted Ware activity. Adjacent to the cemetery, to the East, is an area of very dark soil that contains a mixture of artefacts, pottery and bone fragments. In some texts on this site, this area is referred to as the black area, and is believed to have a possible ceremonial function.[1] However, Österholm[2] has suggested that it may in fact represent the processing of seal train oil.

A significant faunal assemblage has been recovered from the site. This suggests that in the late Mesolithic the economy was based upon the hunting of grey, ringed and harp seals, porpoise and fishing. Cattle, sheep, and pigs were introduced at the start of the Neolithic. However, there was a resurgence in seal hunting and fishing by the Middle Neolithic. Cattle and sheep returned during the late Neolithic and Bronze Age.[1] It has been argued[3] that the pigs which remain on Gotland during the Pitted Ware phase are in fact wild or feral animals, implying a general return to hunting and gathering during this period and not just a reversion to marine resources. Examination of the helical fracture pattern and dynamic impact scars of the bones from Ajvide[1] suggests that bone marrow extraction took place at this site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajvide

It has ancient culture which fits the bill. Bed for me. :yes:

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It's been inhabited for eons - tick archaeology box.

It has labyrinths there - tick Celtic link box.

It has iron axes, history of knowledge and sailing skills - tick matching history box.

It has an island called Faro, which now has a lighthouse, called of course, the Faro Lighthouse - and stinky seals tick matches the story of Proteus of Pharos (Poseidons chief sealherder) box.

It is right near Heille, the Sea of Helle, Hellespont (in the Baltic) - tick connection to Argonaut myth.

It is just across from the Vistula River where amber was collected - tick ancient trade with Mycenaean box.

????? I think you forgot to add a link.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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????? I think you forgot to add a link.

.

Some of that was from the Gotland link - gave that with the sheep crest, sorry, should have put it in, it's 3.42am here, I gotta go to bed, slacked off, makes no diff to the point I made.

Read both links, or 3 links Gotland, Faro and Ajvide.

The list you just gave is not from link, it's from my head.

I broke some down and gave you Wiki info...what do want a link to (or was it the missing Gotland link I should have put in for those first few paragraphs) and I'll get it tomorrow.

Denmark I think will have some answers.

Night all.

Edited by The Puzzler
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I think I need sleep too.

I can't find all that in the links you posted.

:blink:

=====

The Fårö Lighthouse lies on the island's northeastern point. It is 30-meters high and was built between 1846-47.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A5r%C3%B6

But this lighthouse is closer in age to the OLB (built by those damn "Heinde Krekalanders", the Romans):

The Brittenburg was part of the Roman border defense (limes) and was the most western guard post Lugdunum along the Old Rhine, the northern frontier of the Roman province Germania Inferior. Given the square shape of the inner structure, the Brittenburg was probably a lighthouse after the model of the lighthouse of Ostia with a height of about 60 meters and a basis of 72 x 72 meters. Some historians see in the plan also a granary, but for this a dryer, more inland location would have made more sense.

The 'burg te Bretten', later: 'burg te Britten' (Bretten is the eldest name for the area between Leiden and the North Sea), is a burg located before the mouth of the Rhine where toll was collected. Around 950, after the silting of the Old Rhine, the toll burg was fallen into disuse and around 1050 it was torn down (for the reuse of stones). When in 1520 the remains of the Roman lighthouse with Carolingian walls were discovered, they were – incorrectly – identified with the Brittenburg (= burg at Britten).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittenburg

And I hope you will remember what I posted earlier about a possible etymology of this name 'Brittenburg': Friezenburg. Not that it convinced me, but it's much more in line with the OLB.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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I think I need sleep too.

I can't find all that in the links you posted.

:blink:

=====

The Fårö Lighthouse lies on the island's northeastern point. It is 30-meters high and was built between 1846-47.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A5r%C3%B6

But this lighthouse is closer in age to the OLB (built by those damn "Heinde Krekalanders", the Romans):

The Brittenburg was part of the Roman border defense (limes) and was the most western guard post Lugdunum along the Old Rhine, the northern frontier of the Roman province Germania Inferior. Given the square shape of the inner structure, the Brittenburg was probably a lighthouse after the model of the lighthouse of Ostia with a height of about 60 meters and a basis of 72 x 72 meters. Some historians see in the plan also a granary, but for this a dryer, more inland location would have made more sense.

The 'burg te Bretten', later: 'burg te Britten' (Bretten is the eldest name for the area between Leiden and the North Sea), is a burg located before the mouth of the Rhine where toll was collected. Around 950, after the silting of the Old Rhine, the toll burg was fallen into disuse and around 1050 it was torn down (for the reuse of stones). When in 1520 the remains of the Roman lighthouse with Carolingian walls were discovered, they were – incorrectly – identified with the Brittenburg (= burg at Britten).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittenburg

And I hope you will remember what I posted earlier about a possible etymology of this name 'Brittenburg': Friezenburg. Not that it convinced me, but it's much more in line with the OLB.

.

Yep, I know the Faro Lighthouse is recently built, hence why I said NOW in my sentence...It has an island called Faro, which now has a lighthouse,

So, of course it is not this Faro Lighthouse that could be compared to the Pharos Lighthouse, but my point way I spose, it could have had an old lighthouse on it, since it is an area that has a new one. Secondly, this has been moved to Egypt in the myth and we see that Pharos Lighthouse (Alexandria) as being it, but that Lighthouse also came ages after Homer wrote about Pharos. To me, the original shapeshifting ancient God Proteus, brother of Nereus, who hung out on Pharos, with seals and was Poseidon's chief seal herder, would have hailed from Faro.

Abe, I'm working on BEFORE they were in Friesland, as in Holland, these Fryans, they came from Denmark and Sweden and Friesland but they were pushed down into just Friesland, prior to this, when Aldland sank, they were in 'Schoonland' - so it would be logical to me to look in these areas for Frisian culture too.

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A lighthouse built by Romans could hardly be a prototype for Pharos now could it, if Homer wrote 600BC.

Please read some of this article especially page 57. The Aryan Origin of the Alphabet.

http://books.google.com/books?id=0x_N4Lg7s-IC&pg=PA47&lr=#v=onepage&q&f=false

You can what is the alphabet (Latin) in 700BC from Tuscany, that is Etruscans.

Here is a review of the book to get an idea of what it's about -

If you enjoyed reading other works by L.A. Waddell, you will enjoy this one. Waddell discovered by using his new "Aryan" keys that the Phoenecians were "Sumerians", and the leading seafaring branch of the early Aryans, and that the early "Sumerian" dynasty of Ur Nina was the First Dynasty of the Phoenecians in the fourth millenium B.C.

Also,the Sumerian language was radically Aryan in its vocabulary and structure and was disclosed as the parent of the English and all the Aryan family of languages, ancient and modern.

In addition, most of the alphabetic Cadmean Phoenecian letters, as well as the late retrograde Phoenecian letters were of substantially the same form as the Sumerian linear pictographs bearing the coresponding simple vowel and simple consonantal phonetic values or sounds.

http://www.amazon.com/Aryan-Origin-Alphabet-Disclosing-Phoenician/dp/0766185834

The Phoenicians do say they come from the Erythraean Sea, right, so Sumeria does fit the bill and they had boats there since they traded by ship to Harappa.

If the Sumerian alphabet was Aryan in it's approach we could expect then that the Phoenicians spoke a similar language.

It might be a roundabout thing - the European language came into Western Asia c. 2200BC and as it moved around and mixed, the speakers of Persian/Aryan who actually got it from the Aryans, Scandinavians/Frisians - came back into Greece and then into Rome and developed back into a new form of European but if it was taken into Asia early it would only reason it connects back eventually.

If someone of Germanic/Nordic origin were in Asia Minor c. 2200BC and imposed it on them or it was a language used in Sumeria vis changed by the natives too, y'know - all mixed up, babble - Babylon and then was manipulated and transferred back into Europe at a later time, is how I see it.

Germanic or Nordic might then be the language that became the Persian language.

Edited by The Puzzler
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I always find it interesting who wants what for their museums....

The Ipuwer Papyrus is a single papyrus holding an ancient Egyptian poem, called The Admonitions of Ipuwer[1] or The Dialogue of Ipuwer and the Lord of All.[2] Its official designation is Papyrus Leiden I 344 recto.[3] It is housed in the Dutch National Museum of Antiquities in Leiden, Netherlands, after being purchased from Giovanni Anastasi, the Swedish consul to Egypt, in 1828. The sole surviving manuscript dates to the later 13th century BCE (no earlier than the 19th dynasty in the New Kingdom).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus

The Swedish consul to Egypt in 1828 got it.

Ever seen it at the Museum Abe?

Sweden is an interesting country, I was reading about Queen Christina and her upbringing once, beloved daughter and only child of Gustavus Adolphus, King of Sweden, who although born a girl, was going to be bought up like a Prince so she could do the job of being a King. She and her father were inseperable, she was taught riding, archery, she wore boys clothes, learnt to read, everything a boy was shown to do, she was taught to do and allowed to wear boys clothes to do it. Christina's father died when she was only 5 and his friend a Baron, was her mentor, her mother had been sent away, she was from Brandenburg and hated Sweden from when she arrived, so she wasn't very popular.

The Baron followed through exactly what the old King had wanted and Christina was intelligent, smart and able, voted in by the Rikstag she became Queen of Sweden when she was 18. She made an excellent monarch and was very popular in her time but she was too smart - too smart to be a Queen and taught to have too much freedom. She would have rather chatted and debated with philosopher's and writers, rode her horse fast through the woods, study history and have dinners with artists and thinkers to worry about being Queen anymore, it stifled her in the end, her freedoms and liberties had overcome her right to be Queen. She abdicated.

The Baron refused to take the Crown off her head in fact at her abdication ceremony. But Christina was adamant, she was tough, resilient and had had enough of being Queen thanks very much...

She became a Catholic, which suprised her Swedish countrymen and it was then she was seen as a traitor.

She left Sweden and moved to Rome, residing in her castle home and entertaining the elite Italian philosophers, artists and generally living it up in a Bohemian lifestyle until she died.

What I got from it all was this is the Swedish in a nutshell, free, free thinkers, educated, intelligent and forward thinking, full of liberty and probably the original place to find these attributes that followed through with the Frisians.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Yep, I know the Faro Lighthouse is recently built, hence why I said NOW in my sentence...It has an island called Faro, which now has a lighthouse,

So, of course it is not this Faro Lighthouse that could be compared to the Pharos Lighthouse, but my point way I spose, it could have had an old lighthouse on it, since it is an area that has a new one. Secondly, this has been moved to Egypt in the myth and we see that Pharos Lighthouse (Alexandria) as being it, but that Lighthouse also came ages after Homer wrote about Pharos. To me, the original shapeshifting ancient God Proteus, brother of Nereus, who hung out on Pharos, with seals and was Poseidon's chief seal herder, would have hailed from Faro.

Abe, I'm working on BEFORE they were in Friesland, as in Holland, these Fryans, they came from Denmark and Sweden and Friesland but they were pushed down into just Friesland, prior to this, when Aldland sank, they were in 'Schoonland' - so it would be logical to me to look in these areas for Frisian culture too.

The reason I point to this Brittenburg, and this "Kalla's Tower" (the 180 feet tall lighthouse built by Caligula) is because it was located very near where Min-erva's and Kalta's citadels are said to have been.

The timeframe may be wrong, but I think you already know my view on that one...

Ok, so a couple of these citadels were built along the North Sea coast, in Frisian territory. And then this: what are these "lamps" they keep talking about in the OLB?? These citadels all had a "lamp"..

I don't think they used lightbulbs in that time, and I think they are talking about some sort of fire that people kept burning 24/7 (oil, wood). A fire burning 24/7 in a 'citadel'... When you look at pictures of Brittenburg, its fundaments, then it does look like a citadel (and this was known for centuries before the OLB was published), or a castle, a fortress.

So, my idea is that we should be looking for (remnants of) citadels/fortresses that also functioned as lighthouse, and were located at the west and north coast of The Netherlands.

Btw, these Roman structures may have been a lighthouse near the coast, in combination with a fortress a bit further inland.

--------

Puzz you try to prove with facts that the OLB could be based on a true account and true history.

I try to prove that the writers of the OLB knew a lot about ancient history and languages in general, but also about the ancient history of The Netherlands.

And they sure did know about Brittenburg and Kalla's Tower.

--------

You try to prove certain of your reasonings by providing us with your ideas of some etymology.

OK, so I thought of doing the same.

After I thought of this Roman lighthouse thing, I thought, "Is there a word called 'Calta' in Latin?", because the OLB explanation of Sijrhed's nickname in the OLB, 'Kalta', makes no sense at all to me. It is said to point to her beauty and eloquent speach or something:

"On the other side of the Scheldt, at Flyburgt, Sijrhed presided. This maiden was full of tricks. Her face was beautiful, and her tongue was nimble; but the advice that she gave was always conveyed in mysterious terms. Therefore the mariners called her Kalta, and the landsmen thought it was a title."

http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/olb/olb26.htm

And here it is: the latin 'calta' means 'marigold', or the Calendula officinalis.

Well, that's nice, right? But not much to write home about. All we can say it's a beautiful flower (depending on taste, of course).

Kalta appears in the OLB as something of a witch. Well, this 'calta' herb is still used by witches.

Not much again.

~~ Funny aside (I happened to stumble upon it, and I just mentioned it because of the coincidence, it proves nada):

In Katwijk a book has been published, - a fantasy/history novel - about a witch called Kalla:

"De heks van Kalla" - (The Witch of Kalla)

http://www.andyleibbrand.nl/Nieuws.htm

http://www.freemusketeers.nl/index.php/pagina/boeken/aktie/details/boek/1394/de-heks-van-kalla.html

http://www.newsphoto-amsterdam.com/2009/01/de-heks-van-kalla.html

As far as I know not one of the reviews even hints at "Kalta" or the OLB. ---

But what was the original name of this Kalta? Sijrhed. If you Google it, I think you will get only hits in Arab or Turkish, lol.

But Sijrhed is nothing but 'sieraad', or adornment, a jewel, a necklace, you name it.

She was a beautifull woman, remember? Well, marigold flowers (or 'goudsbloem' - golden flower') would look nice on her. And (now I am immitating you, lol), this 'calta' is quite similar to 'gold'. What would a woman like Kalta/Sijrhed love to wear? Gold.

So, this beautifull Kalta was something of a witch (check the OLB) and she had a citadel on the west coast of The Netherlands (no, not Kerenak, that came later in the OLB), a citadel combined with a lighthouse (for those sailors, remember?), "Kalla's Tower".

To me the OLB is full of word twists, and is filled to the brim with a mix of ancient Greek and Roman myths and legends, combined with what fits in from local Dutch/Frisian myths and legends and history.

========

EDIT:

I forgot to say that this "Kalla's Tower", or Caligula's lighthouse was very probably based on the lighthouse in Ostia, near Rome, or the famous lighthouse of Pharos.

And some links of interest:

http://www.livius.org/ga-gh/germania/lugdunum.html

http://www.livius.org/man-md/matilo/matilo.html

.

Edited by Abramelin
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I always find it interesting who wants what for their museums....

The Ipuwer Papyrus is a single papyrus holding an ancient Egyptian poem, called The Admonitions of Ipuwer[1] or The Dialogue of Ipuwer and the Lord of All.[2] Its official designation is Papyrus Leiden I 344 recto.[3] It is housed in the Dutch National Museum of Antiquities in Leiden, Netherlands, after being purchased from Giovanni Anastasi, the Swedish consul to Egypt, in 1828. The sole surviving manuscript dates to the later 13th century BCE (no earlier than the 19th dynasty in the New Kingdom).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus

The Swedish consul to Egypt in 1828 got it.

Ever seen it at the Museum Abe?

( .... )

What I got from it all was this is the Swedish in a nutshell, free, free thinkers, educated, intelligent and forward thinking, full of liberty and probably the original place to find these attributes that followed through with the Frisians.

No Puzz, never saw it. I visited the museum a couple of times, but that was ages ago.

Your description of the Swedes looks fairly accurate, but I don't think they were like that many centuries ago.

Maybe we should invite "Swede" to this thread, lol?

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