[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Abramelin]

Here's a Latin Dictionary. How very useful.

http://www.math.ubc.ca/~cass/frivs/latin/latin-dict-full.html

Maybe, but if the etymology of the word "lacerta" is said to be unknown, checking a Latin dictionary with words made from combinations with "lace-" won't help you much.

OK, found something else:

Lacerta is the name of a genus of lizards of family Lacertidae. Lacerta, is derived from Spanish lagarto, from Latin lacertus (masculine), re-spelled lacerta (feminine), 'lizard', which stand for *lacer-tos, *lacro-tos, re-spelled *lacer-ta, *lacro-ta, and derive from Indo-European base *leq-, 'to bend, twist', whence probably also Latin locusta, 'grasshopper, locust', literally 'the jumper', Old Norse leggr, 'leg'. Related words are: lizard, leg, Lacerta, lacertian, lobster, locust, and alligator.

Alligator is an alteration of Spanish el lagarto, 'the lizard': el, the (from Latin ille, that), + lagarto.

http://www.constellationsofwords.com/Constellations/Lacerta.htm

The fact that the Spanish word is pronounced with a -G- (lagarto) tells me that the -C- in the original Latin word "lacerta" must have been close to a -G- or even -K-.

Like "Caesar" should be pronouned as "Kaisar", not 'say-sar'.

That's where that PIE root comes in: *leq- .

.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

Latin[edit] Pronunciation(Classical) IPA: /laˈker.tus/

[edit] Noun

lacertus (muscular part of the arm)lacertus (genitive lacertī); m, second declension

1.The muscular part of the upper arm, including the shoulder, biceps, and triceps.

2.The arm

3.muscle (strength)

Noun

lacertus (lizard)lacertus (genitive lacertī); m, second declension (feminine lacerta)

1.A lizard

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lacertus

Related terms: lacero,

Latin[edit] Pronunciation(Classical) IPA: /ˈla.ke.roː/

[edit] Verbpresent active lacerō, present infinitive lacerāre, perfect active lacerāvī, supine lacerātum.

1.I rend, tear to pieces

2.I mutilate, lacerate

3.I mangle

4.I wreck, shatter, destroy

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lacero

Lacerate:

lacerate (v.)

early 15c., from L. laceratus, pp. of lacerare "tear to pieces, mangle," figuratively, "to slander, censure, abuse," from lacer "torn, mangled," from PIE base *lek- "to rend, tear" (cf. Gk. lakis "tatter, rag," lakizein "to tear to pieces;" Rus. lochma "rag, tatter, scrap;" Albanian l'akur "naked"). Related: Lacerated; lacerating.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=lacerate

also lacertosus: muscular,brawny, powerful.

A big muscle (that could tear you to pieces).

[The Puzzler]

Yes, the guy continues with the 19th century idea (also check his references) that the Aryan civilization started in (Northern) Europe.

Btw: you can copy and paste if you click on the HTML button:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rPz8F26vnwsJ:www.cumorah.com/etexts/waddellaryanoriginofalphabet.pdf+Aryan+Origin+of+the+Alphabet&hl=en&gl=au

I also found this to be rather interesting: "Cumorah Foundation", lol.

In case you don't know: the Mormons.

It's only a politically incorrect thing to follow up, there is no real evidence imo that it didn't originate there. Everyone just dances around it now since Hitler spoilt being Aryan for everyone...

[Otharus]

Latin

Pronunciation(Classical) IPA: /laˈker.tus/

Noun

lacertus (muscular part of the arm)lacertus (genitive lacertī); m, second declension

I subpose LAXUS (dutch: laks) is related too...

[Otharus]

Everyone just dances around it now since Hitler spoilt being Aryan for everyone...

That's exactly why we have to change it back into Fryan.

Just remember Frya's Tex (TEX FRYA.S):

Don't take away the other's freedom.

Don't start wars.

Etcetera.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Otharus

[The Puzzler]

I subpose LAXUS (dutch: laks) is related too...

I couldn't be sure about it yet.

lax (adj.)

c.1400, "loose" (in reference to bowels), from L. laxus "wide, loose, open," figuratively "loose, free, wide," from PIE base *(s)leg- "to be slack, be languid" (cf. Gk. legein "to leave off, stop," lagos "hare," lit. "with drooping ears," lagnos "lustful, lascivious," lagaros "slack, hollow, shrunken;" L. languere "to be faint, weary," languidis "faint, weak, dull, sluggish, languid"). Of rules, discipline, etc., attested from mid-15c.

Here's the same meaning, which I see as lax, laxus - free - says from a PIE base * (s )leg- Gk goes to legein - to lag, lang words...

It's less and lost in English by the looks of it, also lax in relax.

*-lâ-s, afries., Adj.: nhd. los, ledig, verlustig, frei; ne. ...less, free (Adj.), wrong

(Adj.), lost; Vw.: s. a-f-t-, al-d-er-, ber-n-, bæt-e-, êr-, fÆe-, fæt-, fre-th-o-, hand-,

hâv-ed-, hel-p-e-, hð-s-, jeld-, klak-e-, lÆ-f-, mun-d-, rÐ-d-, san-n-, skath-e-, to-cht-

a-, thing-, war-, wer-e-, wÆ-, -lÐ-t-a, -lik, -wer-th-a, -we-s-a; Hw.: vgl. got. laus, an.

lauss, ae. léas (1), anfrk. læs, as. lôs, ahd. læs (1); Q.: R, E, AA 184; E.: germ.

*lausa-, *lausaz, Adj., los, frei; s. idg. *leu- (2), V., schneiden, trennen, lösen,

Pokorny 681; W.: nfries. leaz, los, Adj., los, frei; W.: nnordfries. lus, luas, Adj., los,

frei; L.: Hh 62b, Rh 884b, AA 184

Edited January 22, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Otharus]

I subpose LAXUS (dutch: laks) is related too...

... as well as the Scandinavian word for salmon: lax/ laks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravlax

[The Puzzler]

... as well as the Scandinavian word for salmon: lax/ laks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravlax

lox, salmon would probably be related through 'fry', being free. It is agreeable to lax, but as far as lek-, I wouldn't confirm any of those words as being the same root as lek, yet.

Edited January 22, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Latin[edit] Pronunciation(Classical) IPA: /laˈker.tus/

[edit] Noun

lacertus (muscular part of the arm)lacertus (genitive lacertī); m, second declension

1.The muscular part of the upper arm, including the shoulder, biceps, and triceps.

2.The arm

3.muscle (strength)

Noun

lacertus (lizard)lacertus (genitive lacertī); m, second declension (feminine lacerta)

1.A lizard

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lacertus

Related terms: lacero,

Latin[edit] Pronunciation(Classical) IPA: /ˈla.ke.roː/

[edit] Verbpresent active lacerō, present infinitive lacerāre, perfect active lacerāvī, supine lacerātum.

1.I rend, tear to pieces

2.I mutilate, lacerate

3.I mangle

4.I wreck, shatter, destroy

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lacero

Lacerate:

lacerate (v.)

early 15c., from L. laceratus, pp. of lacerare "tear to pieces, mangle," figuratively, "to slander, censure, abuse," from lacer "torn, mangled," from PIE base *lek- "to rend, tear" (cf. Gk. lakis "tatter, rag," lakizein "to tear to pieces;" Rus. lochma "rag, tatter, scrap;" Albanian l'akur "naked"). Related: Lacerated; lacerating.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=lacerate

also lacertosus: muscular,brawny, powerful.

A big muscle (that could tear you to pieces).

If you consider this a possible etymology for "lacerta" or even "alligator", you should not forget that there are no reptiles in Europe capable of torning, mangling, lacerating and so on.

So a PIE root of the word meaning "leg" makes more sense.

+++++++++++

EDIT:

leggr

Old Norse

Etymology

Proto-Germanic *lagjaz, from Proto-Indo-European *(H)lak-. Cognates include Lombardic lagi (“thigh”), Latin lacertus (“upper arm”), Old Armenian ոլոք (olokʿ, “shinbone”), Persian لنگ

Noun

leggr m.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/leggr

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lacertus

++++++

EDIT:

We should also not forget that the word 'alligator' is a combination of an article and a noun, "AL" + "LAGARTA".

What Nordic language uses an article like that?

.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

Say I was looking for slack, languid as a PIE word in Frisian - they guess (s )leg- as you have an l sound but also a sl sound in words, Greek is just leg,

leg = lech: Frisian - English: low

lÐg, afries., Adj.: Vw.: s. lÐch

lÐch 12, lÐg, afries., Adj.: nhd. niedrig, gering; ne. low (Adj.); Hw.: vgl. an. lõgr,

mnd. lÐch, mnl. lage, mhd. lÏge; Q.: B, E, F, Jur, Schw; E.: germ. *lÐga-, *lÐgaz,

*lÚga-, *lÚgaz, Adj., niedrig, gering; s. idg. *lÐh- (2), *lýh-, V., Adj., kriechen,

niedrig, Pokorny 660; W.: nfries. leeg, Adj., niedrig, gering; W.: nnordfries. leeg,

liig, Adj., niedrig, gering; L.: Hh 63a, Rh 889b

low seems to be a word used for all the leg words here from Greek:

PIE base *(s)leg- "to be slack, be languid" (cf. Gk. legein "to leave off, stop," lagos "hare," lit. "with drooping ears," lagnos "lustful, lascivious," lagaros "slack, hollow, shrunken;" L. languere "to be faint, weary," languidis "faint, weak, dull, sluggish, languid"). Of rules, discipline, etc., attested from mid-15c

But as for:

lax (adj.)

c.1400, "loose" (in reference to bowels), from L. laxus "wide, loose, open," figuratively "loose, free, wide," from PIE base *(s)leg- "to be slack, be languid"

DOes this really come from PIE *(s )leg as well or from Frisian leg/lech, which already sounds like slack?

Low: could have feeling low, drooping, sluggish, dull, weak, faint, weary, slack

The Frisian form of this word LEG is again, just like the PIE word should be: (s) leg - to be slack, languid = low.

gorp made mention how the words used in Belgium were very basic, seemingly core words to make many other words, this is how I see Frisian, every other word seems to stem from their words, which always nearly match the PIE * they give.

Irish EtymologyFrom Old Irish lac < Proto-Celtic *laggo- < Proto-Indo-European *(s)leh₁g-, compare slack and Latin laxus (“slack”).

[edit] Pronunciation(Munster) IPA: [l̪ˠɑɡ]

(Connacht, Ulster) IPA: [l̪ˠaɡ]

[edit] Adjectivelag

1.weak

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lag

Now, PIE here is meant to be (s )leh g- : for laxus - (s) leg-

Somewhere they are looking for some slehg word that might mean slack, languid, lag... Proto Celtic is laggo- a word before that could simply be leg/lech - low?

Latin laxus - is not in the list I have but this word is: lasesco : to become tired, grow weary, which tells me laxus would be a las word - which it is, in Frisian - las, that was free, open.

[Otharus]

We should also not forget that the word 'alligator' is a combination of an article and a noun, "AL" + "LAGARTA".

What Nordic language uses an article like that?

It is suggested to be a originated from a combination al + lagarta, but not so sure.

I would keep open the possibility that it should actually be read as alla + garta (or all + gatar etc.).

In that case it's much easier to recognise a Nordic origin.

[Abramelin]

It is suggested to be a originated from a combination al + lagarta, but not so sure.

I would keep open the possibility that it should actually be read as alla + garta (or all + gatar etc.).

In that case it's much easier to recognise a Nordic origin.

all, al-, al-l-r (Eng: all)

kratzen, gart-a, gortr-a (Eng: scratch)

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altnordischeswoerterbuch/nhd-an.pdf

OK, so we might get "allr-garta" in Old Norse, "all scratching".

.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

lacer : torn, mangled, cut to pieces.

laceratio : a tearing, mangling.

lacero : to tear to pieces, mangle / squander money / slander someone.

lacerta : lizard.

lacertosus : muscular, powerful.

lacertus : the upper arm / strength.

lacesso : to harass, attack.

http://www.math.ubc.ca/~cass/frivs/latin/latin-dict-full.html

These words all mean the same - the upper arm is powerful, it's all about tearing something apart, causing damage (becoming rend) and being powerful in our arms to do it.

lek 2, afries., Sb.: nhd. Schaden, Nachteil; ne. damage (N.), disadvantage; Hw.: s.

lak-ia; Q.: W, S, AA 69; E.: s. lak-ia; W.: nfries. leck; W.: saterl. lec; L.: Hh 64a,

Rh 890a, AA 69

The name lizard, lacerta doesn't have to be Frisian or even Nordic, if the people who created it, Latin, had base words of Frisian/early Norse, their words would become based on a Northern European root word.

All these next words imo COULD come from lek as well, which went to leak. As mothers do when they lactate, milk often leaks out, like tears.

lacrima : tears / exudations from some plants.

lacrimabilis : lamentable, deplorable, woeful.

lacrimo : to weep, shed tears / exude, drip.

lacrimosus : tearful, mournful, shedding tears,

lactans : giving milk.

lactatio : enticement, come-on.

lacteus : milky, of milk, milk-white.

lacteus : of milk, milky, milk-white.

lacto : to allure, entice, wheedle.

lactuca : lettuce.

lacuna : missing letters, words, or phrases in a manuscript.

lacuna : a hole, empty space / pond, pool / deficiency, loss.

lacunar : panelled ceiling.

lacus : a hollow / lake, pool, pond, trough, tank, tub.

leak (v.)

"to let water in or out" [Johnson], late 14c., from M.Du. leken "to drip, to leak," or from O.N. leka, cognate of O.E. leccan "to moisten" (which did not survive into M.E.), all from P.Gmc. *lek- "deficiency"

lek 2, afries., Sb.: nhd. Schaden, Nachteil; ne. damage (N.), disadvantage

Edited January 22, 2012 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

The problem with this leg is there is all *proto words except for leggr itself.

leggr

Old Norse[edit] EtymologyProto-Germanic *lagjaz, from Proto-Indo-European *(H)lak-. Cognates include Lombardic lagi (thigh), Latin lacertus (upper arm), Old Armenian ոլոք (olokʿ, shinbone), Persian لنگ

So, it's guesswork.

leg imo comes from líkr/like

Norwegian

Etymology 1

From Old Norse lík

Noun lik n

1.corpse

Etymology 2

From Old Norse líkr, alternative spelling of glíkr < Proto-Germanic *galīkaz.

Adjective lik

1.similar, alike

Both in Frisian:

*lÆk (1), afries., st. N. (a): nhd. Leib, Leiche; ne. corpse; Vw.: s. -fel-inge, -ham-a,

-ham-e-lik, -mis-s-e, -râ-f, -râ-v-ia, -wei; Hw.: vgl. got. leik (1), an. lÆk (1), ae. lÆc

(1), as. lÆk (1), ahd. lÆh (1); E.: germ. *lÆka-, *lÆkam, *leika-, *leikam, st. N. (a),

Leib, Körper, Leiche, Gestalt?; s. idg. *lÁig- (2)?, *lÆg-?, Sb., Adj., Gestalt, ähnlich,

gleich, Pokorny 667; W.: nfries. lyck; L.: Hh 66a, Rh 901a

-lik (3), afries., Adj., Suff.: nhd. gleich, -lich; ne. alike, -like;

*-l-a, afries., Adv.: Vw.: s. liæd-bÐr-, the-s-, thÐ-ste-; E.: s. -likik

leg imo means - alike - lík - which also imo became lig = to tie/bind - this concept can be seen in twins. Our legs are usually exactly alike.

Latin[edit] EtymologyFrom Proto-Indo-European *leygʰ- (to bind)[1]. Cf. Middle Low German līk, Old Norse lík. Possibly related to Middle High German geleich (joint), whence modern German gleich.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ligo#Latin

.

It goes through to ligo/lig in Latin - to tie/bind.

Edited January 22, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

OK, so we have Norse, Frisian, Latin, and so on.

But how does the OLB itself explain the word?

tha aldergrâtesta âdiska sind algaettar hêten, thrvchdam se yvin grûsich bitte an thet rotte kwik, that mith-a strâma fon boppa nêi tha delta dryweth as an thet lêvande kwik that se bigâna müge.

de allergrootste eidechsen zijn 'algaettar' geheten, doordat zij even gretig bijten aan het rotte vee dat met-de stroom van boven naa de delta drijft, als aan het levende vee, dat ze passeren ("(voor)bijgaan") mogen.

the largest are called alligators, because they bite as greedily at the putrid cattle that float along the stream from above to the delta as the living cattle they may pass.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

"algaettar" would be "all-getter" (as Puzz posted a while ago), because the animal gets/grabs everything (living and dead cattle).

If it would mean something like "all-eter" then there is a problem with the -g- .

Anyway it seems we are all here busy doing our best to prove the OLB etymology wrong, lol.

[Abramelin]

On this scan from Knul's webiste you can see the word is written like this:

al_geattar.

Page 167 of the OLB, line 5:

They didn't even try to hide the true origin of the word, lol.

AL - GATOR.

.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

all, al-, al-l-r (Eng: all)

kratzen, gart-a, gortr-a (Eng: scratch)

OK, so we might get "allr-garta" in Old Norse, "all scratching".

Or, as OLB suggests, AL.GÀTTAR = all-getter, all-eater.

A pretty good description, I'd say.

[Otharus]

They didn't even try to hide the true origin of the word, lol.

AL - GATOR.

What do you mean?

You know the "true origin of the word"?

[Abramelin]

What do you mean?

You know the "true origin of the word"?

No, but it certainly isn't anything Old Frisian.

What's the Old Frisian word for "all"? It's "alla" or "alle".

"all getter" may be a real good description according to you, but it would be a really good description for any omnivore.

A pig would be an "all getter" too.

.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Or, as OLB suggests, AL.GÀTTAR = all-getter, all-eater.

A pretty good description, I'd say.

The Old Frisian word "gader" means "gather" or "to gather"

So, "al-gaettar" would be "a collector of anything".

That doesn't sound right to me.

I think it's nothing but an etymology made up by someone having a drink while making things up.

.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

I think it's nothing but an etymology made up by someone having a drink while making things up.

We can all have our own thoughts about this, but so far nothing was proven.

Besides, it does not have to have been a Fryan (or Oldfrisian) word, as they can have picked it up in India.

It would be interesting to know what the old terms for the animal were in SE-Asia and with the aboriginals & papuas.

[Abramelin]

We can all have our own thoughts about this, but so far nothing was proven.

Besides, it does not have to have been a Fryan (or Oldfrisian) word, as they can have picked it up in India.

It would be interesting to know what the old terms for the animal were in SE-Asia and with the aboriginals & papuas.

If they picked it up in India or the Punjab, then there must still exist a word similar to "alligator" there right now.

And why do you mention the Aboriginals and Papuans? Did the Fryans travel to their countries too ??

++++++

EDIT:

These Names/Words are taken from several different Australian Aboriginal Languages

Kanhe = freshwater crocodile

http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/names/abornames.htm

Saltwater Crocodile facts # 3

Because of its broad body and the low number of armor plates on the neck, the Saltwater crocodile was earlier believed by some to be an alligator rather than a true crocodile. It is sometimes referred to as Gator in Australia and the Alligator Rivers are named after this species.

It's obvious the Australians borrowed that name from the American language quite recently.

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/crocodiles/saltfacts.php

Baru: Refers to the crocodile and is represented by a diamond pattern. 'Baru' is the venerated totem of the Gumatj people.

http://www.yolnguboy.com/directory/htm/the-yolngu/index-yolngu.htm

COMMON NAMES:

Australian Saltwater Crocodile, Estuarine Crocodile, 'Saltie', Indo-Pacific Crocodile (not generally accepted), Singapore small grain (probably due to resemblance to C. siamensis), Baya, Buaja, Buaya muara, Gator (regional Australian name, not to be confused with A. mississippiensis), Gatta Kimbula, Gorekeya, Kone huala, Jara Kaenumken, Pita Gatteya, Pukpuk (Aboriginal name), Rawing crocodile, Semmukhan Muthlelei, Sea-going crocodile, Subwater crocodile, Man-eating crocodile.

http://crocodilian.com/cnhc/csp_cpor.htm

The Anglo-Saxon immigrants introduced "gator", or "gatta" and "gatteya".

.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

And why do you mention the Aboriginals and Papuans?

Because they are utterly fascinating.

[Knul]

It is suggested to be a originated from a combination al + lagarta, but not so sure.

I would keep open the possibility that it should actually be read as alla + garta (or all + gatar etc.).

In that case it's much easier to recognise a Nordic origin.

The transcription by Ottema is not correct. It should read al-gattar, not al-gaettar. Nothing with etta =eten, but with Eng. gather = collect, Dutch garen, vergaren, probably a wordplay linked to the American alligator. The preceding word is wrong too. It should read aldergrâteste instead of aldergrâtesta.

[Abramelin]

The transcription by Ottema is not correct. It should read al-gattar, not al-gaettar. Nothing with etta =eten, but with Eng. gather = collect, Dutch garen, vergaren, probably a wordplay linked to the American alligator. The preceding word is wrong too. It should read aldergrâteste instead of aldergrâtesta.

Menno, I don't agree with you about Ottema's mistaken transliteration: if you look at the first -A- in GATTAR you'll see that the right upright of the -A- has a blob that could be an elongation of that upright. And in that case Ottema would have ben right by transliteration the word as AL_GAETTAR.

Anyway, there is a location with a name close to that AL_GAETTAR (or AL_GATTAR if you prefer):

DAWLAT AL-QATAR = State of Qatar

http://unimaps.com/qatar/index.html

It is very close to the Punjab, that's for sure.

I don't believe at all that that would be the right translation or interpretation of the OLB AL_GAETTAR, but it might be a clue.

.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Abramelin