[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Abramelin]

On that same page Knul posted this:

Otharus, here is the full reference to the book mentioned: Schulz, Wilhelm und Karl Welcker, Geheime Inquisition, Censur und Kabinetsjustiz im verderblichen Bunde. ... See pag. 329 on Ernst Stadermann.

http://books.google.nl/books/about/Geheime_Inquisition_Censur_und_Kabinetsj.html?id=-hD-vetcqowC&redir_esc=y

And here a screenshot of that page 329:

[Van Gorp]

Photos of the original text can be found here: http://www.oeralindaboek.nl/

And Overwijn (the one who, after Ottema and Wirth, published a book about the OLB plus translation) showed us an example of the Menapian language (a prayer), and those guys lived in what is now Flanders. This Menapian language looked a lot like the language used in the OLB. And that could be - like I have posted before - that these Menapians were just another tribe of Frisians.

Around this page I talked about the Menapians:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=6030

.

Thank you for the info Abramelin, I'll certainly read it.

With quick view I didn't saw immediately a full text of the original script.

Was I a bit hasty and overlooked it somewhere?

[Abramelin]

Thank you for the info Abramelin, I'll certainly read it.

With quick view I didn't saw immediately a full text of the original script.

Was I a bit hasty and overlooked it somewhere?

I guess you were a bit hasty; it's here: http://www.oeralindaboek.nl/boek/index.html (and it's a link on the index page, scroll down to where it says "klik hier" ).

[Van Gorp]

I guess you were a bit hasty; it's here: http://www.oeralindaboek.nl/boek/index.html (and it's a link on the index page, scroll down to where it says "klik hier" ).

Muchas Gracias Abe!

Indeed, hasty me.

[Abramelin]

And here something more about those Menapians and Flanders:

Post 5994, page 400:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=5985

From a very long post (6004) om page 401:

To give something of summary (including former posts 5996/7/8 on page 400):

The Menapians must have been closely related to the Frisians, and at a certain time they inhabited an area from Calais (France) up to Leiden (Netherlands). They spoke a language closely related to Old Frisian. They probably settled in east Ireland, and lived there as neighbours of the Cauci who may have come from coastal Germany.

The Chauci, neighbours of the Frisians and (often) close allies, had all the characteristics (according to Tacitus and others) of the OLB Fryans/Frisians. They were both known as very civilized, peacefull... and as sea raiders.

Both the Menapii and Chaucii must have been very influential tribes, the Chaucii even being dominant at sea, and both connected with Ireland.

Where are these Menapii and Chaucii in the OLB? Where is Ireland in the OLB?

.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Abramelin

[Van Gorp]

And here something more about those Menapians and Flanders:

Post 5994, page 400:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=5985

From a very long post (6004) om page 401:

To give something of summary (including former posts 5996/7/8 on page 400):

The Menapians must have been closely related to the Frisians, and at a certain time they inhabited an area from Calais (France) up to Leiden (Netherlands). They spoke a language closely related to Old Frisian. They probably settled in east Ireland, and lived there as neighbours of the Cauci who may have come from coastal Germany.

The Chauci, neighbours of the Frisians and (often) close allies, had all the characteristics (according to Tacitus and others) of the OLB Fryans/Frisians. They were both known as very civilized, peacefull... and as sea raiders.

Both the Menapii and Chaucii must have been very influential tribes, the Chaucii even being dominant at sea, and both connected with Ireland.

Where are these Menapii and Chaucii in the OLB? Where is Ireland in the OLB?

.

interesting ...

for what's worth: from Schrieck, relate Menapi-Morini-Cassel (Frans Vlaanderen).

Nice to see, we find it close to the 'Katsberg'.

[Abramelin]

An interesting discussion about the Frisians:

Waar in Nederland lag de kern van Frisia?

(Where in the Netherlands was the nucleus of Frisia?)

http://www.nifterlaca.nl/read.php?3,2370,2370#msg-2370

Alas, it's in Dutch.

[Knul]

An interesting discussion about the Frisians:

Waar in Nederland lag de kern van Frisia?

(Where in the Netherlands was the nucleus of Frisia?)

http://www.nifterlac...0,2370#msg-2370

Alas, it's in Dutch.

The nucleus of Frisia must have been Utrecht (Etym. Vredenburg = Friezenburg). In the OLB the nucleus of Frisia is Medemblik (Fasta), later Stavoren (Friso).

[Knul]

There is no proof for any contact between Over de Lindenm and Stadermann, other than in the year they were neighbors (1845).

They were not just neighbours, but also colleagues and friends.

[Otharus]

They were not just neighbours, but also colleagues and friends.

I know they were neighbors in 1845 only, according to L.F. Over de Linden.

Three questions:

Do you know from when till when Stadermann worked for the Marine in Den Helder?

Do you have any indication that they were 'friends', other than the trip to Enkhuizen they would have made together in 1845?

Have you read the letters between H.A. Stadermann and A. Heyting (1917-1934)?

[Knul]

I know they were neighbors in 1845 only, according to L.F. Over de Linden.

Three questions:

Do you know from when till when Stadermann worked for the Marine in Den Helder?

Do you have any indication that they were 'friends', other than the trip to Enkhuizen they would have made together in 1845?

Have you read the letters between H.A. Stadermann and A. Heyting (1917-1934)?

Just read the reports of one of his colleagues and of Berk. s. http://rodinbook.nl/olbbrieven.html. ref: Voorgeschiedenis. Zie ook: http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/_gid001187801_01/_gid001187801_01_0001.php.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Knul

[Abramelin]

Menno, I just read some of those letters from Cornelis over de Linden on your site.

This is a line that got me a bit puzzled:

Bij die gelegenheid leerde hij mij ook de letters kennen, waardoor ik zoover gevorderd ben dat ik het handschrift eenigermate kan lezen.

On that occasion he also taught me the characters, so I am now advanced enough that I can read the manuscript somewhat.

http://rodinbook.nl/voorgeschiedenis.html

Why did someone need to teach CodL how to transliterate the OLB script into latin script?

The next page is supposed to be part of the original manuscript, right?

Page 46 of the OLB:

http://images.tresoar.nl/bibl-collectie/boeken/oeralinda/groot/pagina.php?p=48&pm=212

[Knul]

Menno, I just read some of those letters from Cornelis over de Linden on your site.

This is a line that got me a bit puzzled:

Bij die gelegenheid leerde hij mij ook de letters kennen, waardoor ik zoover gevorderd ben dat ik het handschrift eenigermate kan lezen.

On that occasion he also taught me the characters, so I am now advanced enough that I can read the manuscript somewhat.

http://rodinbook.nl/...schiedenis.html

Why did someone need to teach CodL how to transliterate the OLB script into latin script?

The next page is supposed to be part of the original manuscript, right?

Page 46 of the OLB:

http://images.tresoa...php?p=48&pm=212

Because Cornelis over de Linden pretended in a letter to Verwijs that he could not read the manuscript, but had deciphered some letters, enough to know that the manuscript dealt with his family history as he told the teacher of his son. Apparently his only problem was to get a translation to fully understand. So he deceived Ottema as well.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Knul

[Abramelin]

Because Cornelis over de Linden pretended in a letter to Verwijs that he could not read the manuscript, but had deciphered some letters, enough to know that the manuscript dealt with his family history as he told the teacher of his son. Apparently his only problem was to get a translation to fully understand. So he deceived Ottema as well.

But tell me, please: was that page I linked to part of the original manuscript?

It has latin characters added to it.

With that page 46 anyone could decipher the OLB. Why couldn't Cornelis over de Linden?

.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

I know they were neighbors in 1845 only, according to L.F. Over de Linden.

Three questions:

1. Do you know from when till when Stadermann worked for the Marine in Den Helder?

2. Do you have any indication that they were 'friends', other than the trip to Enkhuizen they would have made together in 1845?

3. Have you read the letters between H.A. Stadermann and A. Heyting (1917-1934)?

Your answer was:

"Just read the reports of one of his colleagues and of Berk. s. http://rodinbook.nl/olbbrieven.html. ref: Voorgeschiedenis. Zie ook: http://www.dbnl.org/...801_01_0001.php"

From these links I conclude that:

1. No, you don't know the timeframe in which Stadermann worked for the Royal Marine in Den Helder.

2. The only 'information' about the supposed friendship between Stadermann and Over de Linden is speculation by others.

3. No you have not read any letters from Stadermann's son.

[Van Gorp]

Not to disturb other discussions, just a luttle artist-ik alter-native intermezzo

for

tha 'taal the lesen'

for

the 'tell the lesson'

(bij het 'taal lesen', it's advisable 'to listen')

Just a laugh :-)

[Abramelin]

A bit more about this "Occo the Druid" (or was it no one else but the fictive "Ocko Scarlenis"?? ... or even the "Okke" from the beginning of the OLB? "Okke, my son"...) :

Poppo, a Dutchman of the eighth century, wrote De officiis Druidum; and Occo, styled the last of the Frisian Druids, was the author of a similar work. Worth, in 1620, and Frickius of 1744 were engaged on the same subject. It is curious to notice St. Columba addressing God as "My Druid," and elsewhere saying, "My Druid is Christ the Son of God." The Vates were an order known in Irish as Faidh. Some derive Druid from Druthin, the old German for God. The word Druith is applied to a Druidess.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/idr/idr07.htm

http://books.google.nl/books?id=36NErsHyKfgC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=poppo+De+officiis+Druidum&source=bl&ots=TkMhAQydrN&sig=-DbTQMuKW-6di9mOewSksb9hPRc&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=9RwwT4rUG8Wa-waZ5ZSADg&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=poppo%20De%20officiis%20Druidum&f=false

In Martini Hamconii's Frisia seu de viris rebusque Frisia illustribus,

published in 1620, it is set forth that Barco, Pontifex seu Prcefectus

Druidum, who lived in Holland in the fourth century, wrote on the

immortality of the soul, and that another Dutchman, Poppa, " the most

distinguished heathen author of the eighth century," left, along with

other works, the treatises : De officiis Druidum and De ritu sacrificorum.

also that Occo, "a ferocious fellow," the last of the Frisian Druids, wrote

on the doctrines and lives of the chief Druidical priests.

http://digital.nls.uk/early-gaelic-book-collections/pageturner.cfm?id=78950280&mode=transcription

.

More about this "Occo" and druidism:

Neue Beyträge zum Vergnügen des Verstandes und Witzes, Volume 4 - Karl Christian Gärtner

http://books.google.nl/books?id=EWo6AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA469&lpg=PA469&dq=%22OCCO%22+DRUIDE+FRIESLAND&source=bl&ots=lMAgsu-it0&sig=Luor8eh-O3NMhz4zjzGs50PMWuY&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=Kro3T5WGHIql-gauw4ChDg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22OCCO%22%20DRUIDE%20FRIESLAND&f=false

...and enter "Occo"...

And then this:

IT AADE FRIESCHE TERP of Kronyk der Geschiedenissen van de Vrye Friesen:

Bl. 16.--Ao 59.

Op 't Oude Hof te Lewerden./ Cappidus van Staveren, Suffr. Petri

en Hamconius zeggen, dat reeds voor Christus geboorte Leeuwarden

onder den naam van Aula Dei, dat is Gods-Hof, bekend was, alwaar het

opperhoofd der Druiden, Barden of Priesters was gesteld. Hier was de

leerschool van de Friezen, en genoten zij onderwijs in de godsdienst,

wetenschappen en wijsbegeerte. Dit gesticht zoude te Oldehove gestaan

en uitstekende mannen hebben voortgebragt. Latere schrijvers verwerpen

dit denkbeeld geheelenal. Wat er van zij is moeijelijk op te sporen,

nog moeijelijker te beslissen. Verg. Oudhed. en Gesticht. I. 283,

alwaar de kundige vertaler, v. Rhyn, in den geest van Emmius steeds

tot verwerpen genegen van de oude kronijken, ook geen geloof daaraan

hecht. Over de goden- en geloofsleer der Druiden, hun priesterschap,

beheer, en hun bestaan in het oude Friesche Rijk, vergelijke

men de meergemelde Verhand. van Westendorp, over de Noordsche

Mythologie, p. 319 volgg. en 331 volgg.--v. Wijn, Huisz. Leven,

I. 8, en Hist. Avondst. I. 123, zegt, dat de Germanen en dus ook de

Friezen geene Druiden of Barden gehad hebben: het tegendeel wordt

door West. bewezen;--zie bl. 287 onzer Aanteekeningen.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/33563/33563-8.txt

http://players.readbooks.mobi/ReadBooksPreviews/freepreviews/0001000033563/www.gutenberg.org@files@33563@33563-h@33563-h-11.htm

Translation:

On the Old Court in Leeuwarden.

Cappidus van Staveren, Suffr. Petri and Hamconius say that already before Christ's birth Leeuwarden was known under the name Aula Dei, that's God's Court (or Courtyard?), where the chief of the Druids, Bards or Priests was seated. Here was the school of the Frisians and they got educated in religion, science and philosophy. This institute was said to be located in Oldehove (= Oude Hof = Old Court) and to have produced many excellent men. Later writers totally reject this idea. What's true about it is hard to track down and even harder to decide.

And so on...

[Abramelin]

And - as I always love to say - it get's better:

Dutch:

Sint Wilho van Oldenhove (Leeuwarden), de eerste Bisschop van Osnabrück van 783 tot 804. Hij kwam uit het Friese terpdorp Oldehove, dat samen met Nijehove en Hoek in 1435 Leeuwarden werd.

De laat middeleeuwse legende noemt Wilho de laatste Druide van de mysterieschool op Oldehove (Aula Dei - Gods Hove).

In het straatbeeld van het Leeuwarden is het gebied van de terp van de laatste Druide zichtbaar in het oude Oldehoofsterkerkhof, Grote Kerkstraat en de Grote Hoogstraat.

Na zijn bekering door Bonifatius zou hij in Utrecht tot priester opgeleid zijn. Karel de Grote stelde Wilho aan tot bisschop van Osnabrück.

Wilho vergat de bekering van zijn thuisland niet. Zo wil de legende dat zijn moeder, die nog op de terp Oldehove woonde, tot grote verbazing een stukje land met een toren zag langsdrijven. De vrouw riep "Ho âlde, ho." De toren legde aan op de plek waar vroeger de Middelzee haar kust had.

http://rkforum.activeboard.com/t26098006/sint-wilho-van-oldenhove-leeuwarden-eerste-bisschop-van-osna/

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldehove_(Leeuwarden)

English:

Saint Wilho of Oldenhove (Leeuwarden), the first bishop of Osnabrück from 783 to 804. He came from the Frisian terp village Oldehove, which together with Nijehove and Hoek became Leeuwarden in 1435.

The late medieval legend calls Wilho the last Druid from the mystery school on Oldehove (Aula Dei - God's Court).

In the streets of Leeuwarden the area of ​​the mound of the last Druid is still visible in the old Oldehoofsterkerkhof, Grote Kerkstraat and the Grote Hoogstraat (a churchyard and 2 streets).

After his conversion by St. Boniface he is said to have been trained as a priest in Utrecht. Charlemagne appoited Wilho as bishop of Osnabrück.

Wilho did not forgot about the conversion of his homeland. The legend says that his mother, who still lived on the mound Oldehove, saw to her amazement a piece of land with a tower float along. The woman yelled "Ho âlde, ho." The tower stranded on the site where the former Middle Sea had its coast.

Read about Osnabrück:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osnabr%C3%BCck

Anyone notice the 6-spoked wheel??

==========

It appears another sex-change occurred:

From the OLB:

THE WRITINGS OF FRÊTHORIK AND WILJOW

My name is Frêthorik, surnamed oera Linda, which means over the Linden. In Ljudwardia I was chosen as Asega. Ljudwardia is a new village within the fortification of the Ljudgaarda, of which the name has fallen into disrepute.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bo

THE WRITING OF KONERÊD

My forefathers have written this book in succession. I will do this, the more because there exists no longer in my state any citadel on which events are inscribed as used to be the case. My name is Konerêd. My father’s name was Frethorik, my mother’s name was Wiljow.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bs

THIS WRITING HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME ABOUT NORTHLAND AND SCHOONLAND

My name is Wiljo. I am the maiden who came home with him from Saxsenmarken.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bq

.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Anyone remember what I posted about the OLB "Gosa Makonta"? That her first name could have been derived from "Goswinus" = God's friend? That Makonta is nothing but Magonta/Mogunta and so on, an old name for Mainz?

Or later on, that I said this OLB Gosa Makonta talks like 'she' is quoting directly from the Bible?

Here you go:

Goswinus Moguntinensis

http://thesaurus.cerl.org/record/cnp00165926

http://d-nb.info/gnd/100943322/about/html

http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/list/cb/title/pnd_100943322

http://translate.google.nl/#la|en|Moguntinensis

===

Gozechini epistola ad Walcherum - Goswinus (Moguntinensis.)

http://books.google.nl/books/about/Gozechini_epistola_ad_Walcherum.html?id=5ik0YAAACAAJ&redir_esc=y

===

Gosa, surnamed Makonta

Goswinus, surnamed 'from Mainz' (Moguntinensis)

In the course of history the name of the Mainz/Mentz changed several times, from an obligatory way of writing that can probably only since that 18th Century to be spoken. Language played an important role in the changes of latin. "Mogontiacum" originated from the phase of the "silver latinitaet in such a way specified". After using the term in latin, which developed beyond the alps rapidly, the word became starting from that 6th Century and was shortened to "Moguntia" and/or "Magantia" in both written and spoken ways. * Note: In Latin pronunciation, Magantia would be pronounced something like: Mah-hen-cia or Mah-hen-cha which also sounds Mentz. In 7th Century, the city name as "Mogancia" or "Magancia urbis" and/or. "Maguntia", and in th 8th Century it was known as as "Magontia". By the time the 11th Century had arrived the name again used was "Moguntiacum" and/or "Moguntie". Then in the 12the Century, Mainz/Mentz was called the city "Magonta", "Maguntia", "Magontie", and "Maguntiam".

http://mentzclan.com/mainz.html

.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Long ago I posted abut the "Frisia seu De viris rebusque Frisiae" by Martinus Hamconius. I also posted screenshots frpm that book..

But here I found another real copy:

http://books.google.nl/books?id=uvxGAAAAcAAJ&pg=PT3&hl=nl&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=true

And another couple of screenshots (and look at the list of the Frisian 'pantheon') :

Stauo/Stavo > Jupiter

Fosta > Mars

Snein > Sol

Harco > Hercules

Holler > Pluto

Freda > Venus

VValdach > Diana

Meda > Medea

.

From the OLB:

THIS WRITING HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME ABOUT NORTHLAND AND SCHOONLAND

(...)

Heil!

Whenever the Carrier has completed a period, then posterity shall understand that the faults and misdeeds that the Brokmannen have brought with them belonged to their forefathers; therefore I will watch, and will describe as much of their manners as I have seen. The Geertmannen I can readily pass by. I have not had much to do with them, but as far as I have seen they have mostly retained their language and customs. I cannot say that of the others. Those who descend from the Greeks speak a bad language, and have not much to boast of in their manners. Many have brown eyes and hair. They are envious and impudent, and cowardly from superstition. When they speak, they put the words first that ought to come last. For old they say at; for salt, sât; and for man, ma—too many to mention. They also use abbreviations of names, which have no meaning. The Joniers speak better, but they drop the H, and put it where it ought not to be. When they make a statue of a dead person they believe that the spirit of the departed enters into it; therefore they have hidden their statues of Frya, Fâsta, Medea, Thiania, Hellenia, and many others.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bq

[Otharus]

Letter from Cornelis Over de Linden to Dr. Ottema, dated Den Helder 11-6-1872 (translation, original at Tresoar, Ljouwert).

"Honorable and very learned Sir!

A request for revision, says W. de L. in Spectator magazine of 21 October 1871 # 42, the same I ask you, and all who reject the so-called 'RUN-SKRIFT' as of younger date.

In your translation I read: "Oh dear, never let the eyes of a monk gaze upon this script, they speak sweet words, but... etc."

From this fear of monks I dare conclude, that they had already captured many of our old manuscripts. I also dare believe dat the Over de Lindens have not been the only ones, who possessed the book of Adela Follistar. When I follow the history of the manuscript, I dare assume that the Romans, the Phoenicians, the Greeks and all Mediterranean peoples learned the letterscript from us. Not copied from the geometric lines of the Jol, but from less neatly produced Frisian manuscripts.

In the times when I tortured myself trying to read the handwriting, someone said to me that they might be Phoenician letters. So I looked for a book about the Phoenician language and found one with the title: "Paläographische Studien über phönizische und punische Schrift - Herausgegeben von D. Wilhelm Gesenius. Mit 6 lithographirten tafelen. Leipzig 1835."

The letters in that book are very different, but many of them are similar to the STAND and the RUN-SKRIFT as presented in the manuscript. Many or most of the prints of tokens with letters, depict women's heads, that reminded me of the Frisian honorary Mothers. The author says that every Phoenician colony had its own letterscript. But I could not follow him, because he compared the letters with Hebrew ones, which I don't know.

If my notion is right, we have been the lettergivers of all Mediterranean peoples. As the Nordic peoples always have been - and still are - the real sea dogs, the French with all their elevated theories not excluded, they were also most in need of letters and ciphars.

That the monks, who have invented their own letterscript, stifled ours to make it unreadable, lies in their nature. But who knows how many Copies of the book of Adela's Folstar remain here and elsewhere with kings or in Rome. Now that more than a thousand years have passed, they may have introduced the walking script as capitals, because they are similar to our capitals.

If you are so weak as to reject the walking script, out of fear for some barkers, than it is as if you want to duel with the sheath, while passing the sword to them.

For in the manuscript it says: "When Fàsta was Mother of honor, she made the running or walking script out of it. The Witking, that is seaking Godfried... etc." So, if the runscript was added more recently, then the above fragment was also added, and then anything can have been added. So I keep protesting against the mutilation.

[...]

After affable greetings, also to your Niece,

Yours,

C. Over de Linden"

Edited February 12, 2012 by Otharus

[Knul]

But tell me, please: was that page I linked to part of the original manuscript?

It has latin characters added to it.

With that page 46 anyone could decipher the OLB. Why couldn't Cornelis over de Linden?

.

If you mean page 46 with the juulscript, it is not certain, if it belonged to the original manuscript. It has been said, that Ottema added it. I think that Ottema has it photographed from the original.Over de Linden could have deciphered the manusript with help of this page, but that does not mean, that he could understand the contents of the OLB, so he needed a translation. Over de Linden did not understand Frisian as stated his son, let alone that he would have understood Oldfrisian or even Riustringian Frisian.As I told before, a possibilty is that Over de Linden and Stadermann prepared a publication, but that just did not happen, because of the dead of Staderman, April 13th, 1967. The juultext was not complete. First Over de Linden tried to get a translation by the teacher of his son, but he refused. Next was Verwijs, who happened to be a member of the Frisian Society and not merely a school inspector. Cornelis over de Linden did not know about the existence of the Frisian Society. Don't forget that he offered Verwijs to pay for the translation, which Verwijs refused.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Knul

[Abramelin]

If you mean page 46 with the juulscript, it is not certain, if it belonged to the original manuscript. It has been said, that Ottema added it. I think that Ottema has it photographed from the original.Over de Linden could have deciphered the manusript with help of this page, but that does not mean, that he could understand the contents of the OLB, so he needed a translation. Over de Linden did not understand Frisian as stated his son, let alone that he would have understood Oldfrisian or even Riustringian Frisian.As I told before, a possibilty is that Over de Linden and Stadermann prepared a publication, but that just did not happen, because of the death of Staderman, April 13th, 1967. The juultext was not complete. First Over de Linden tried to get a translation by the teacher of his son, but he refused. Next was Verwijs, who happened to be a member of the Frisian Society and not merely a school inspector. Cornelis over de Linden did not know about the existence of the Frisian Society. Don't forget that he offered Verwijs to pay for the translation, which Verwijs refused.

My answer to what I underlined in your post:

In my post about CodL I said that he had to learn the characters of the OLB; sorry to say, but you do not explain why he had to be teached by someone else when the explanation of which character means what in latin script is already in the OLB. OK, yes, you say it is said Ottema himself may have added it.

Now let's be honest: who - in god's name - will add an 'ancient and original looking' page to an ancient manuscript??

I think this page 46 is very fishy...

Page 46 looks like all the other pages: OLD. If Ottema did indeed add that page himself, we can add him to the list of suspects, but I don't think he would have been that stupid.

Or was he?

Again: pag 46 looks as old as the rest of the manuscript. Would an Ottema 'only' have added the latin characters to the Juul wheels? That again would be something not done when handling ancient manuscripts.

Suppose I own a 800 years old chronicle of my family, and I ask you Menno, to have a look at it. I trust you completely, and then you send it back to me and I see you have actually written notes/explanations on that many centuries old document. I think I would come round and have an 'unpleasant talk' with you, lol.

.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Btw: my post about this "Wilho" being the OLB "Wiljo" can be ignored.

I have searched for many hours trying to find another online source about this Wilho, of whom I thought was no one else but the OLB "Wiljo/Wiljow".

This saint appears to be no one else but St. Vitus.

And the legend I posted about is nothing but a fabrication by the Frisian historiographers Suffrides and Hamconius.

Suffridus Petrus en de Friese identiteit

P.N. Noomen

Vanwaar de naam Oldehove of Aula Dei? Ook dat was volgens Suffridus wel duidelijk:

voor de kerstening lag hier een heidense

tempel van druïden; Caesar beschreef de druïden immers al? Omdat enige

laatmiddeleeuwse bisschopslijsten van Osnabrück aanvangen met een Viho veranderde

Suffridus de patroonheilige van de Oldehove, de vroegchristelijke St. Vitus uit

Lucania, in de laatste Leeuwarder druïde, Vitho geheten die zich tot het christendom

bekeerde en door Karel de Grote tot bisschop van Osnabrück werd benoemd en later

de patroonheilige van de Oldehove werd; Suffridus kent ook zijn heidense

voorgangers bij naam, evenals de boeken die zij geschreven zouden hebben.

Deze constructie, waarin St. Vitus van Oldehove in St. Vitho van Aula Dei werd ver-

anderd, was ongetwijfeld zijn meest stoutmoedige. Hoewel ook in dit geval het klassieke

gegeven (van de druïden) diende om middeleeuwse feiten (een patrocinium en

een toponiem) een structurele achtergrond te geven, is het het meest omvattende complex

fictie dat zich ver van de middeleeuwse traditie verwijdert.

http://depot.knaw.nl/5017/1/Suffridus.pdf

http://www.historischcentrumleeuwarden.nl/oldehove/index.html

http://www.leeuwardenstudiestad.nl/leeuwarden-studiestad/historie-cultuur/geschiedenis-oldehove/

Someone made a spelling error and posted about "Wilho" when it should have been "Wilto" or "Vilto" or "Vitho".

Or even "Vyt":

Sint-Vyt

http://www.archive.org/stream/studininnederla00winkgoog/studininnederla00winkgoog_djvu.txt

"Studiën in Nederlandsche namekunde"

http://www.archive.org/stream/studininnederla00winkgoog#page/n7/mode/2up

I even thought this "Wilho" could have been a nickname for Willibrord, but he died before "Vitus" even showed up.

[Knul]

My answer to what I underlined in your post:

In my post about CodL I said that he had to learn the characters of the OLB; sorry to say, but you do not explain why he had to be teached by someone else when the explanation of which character means what in latin script is already in the OLB. OK, yes, you say it is said Ottema himself may have added it.

Now let's be honest: who - in god's name - will add an 'ancient and original looking' page to an ancient manuscript??

I think this page 46 is very fishy...

Page 46 looks like all the other pages: OLD. If Ottema did indeed add that page himself, we can add him to the list of suspects, but I don't think he would have been that stupid.

Or was he?

Again: pag 46 looks as old as the rest of the manuscript. Would an Ottema 'only' have added the latin characters to the Juul wheels? That again would be something not done when handling ancient manuscripts.

Suppose I own a 800 years old chronicle of my family, and I ask you Menno, to have a look at it. I trust you completely, and then you send it back to me and I see you have actually written notes/explanations on that many centuries old document. I think I would come round and have an 'unpleasant talk' with you, lol.

.

I have here Plate 1 (bl. 45) in front of me. It is called a Fac-Simile. As lithographer is mentioned A. v. Calsbeek Leeuw(arden ?), which means that this page was part of the M.S. The same would apply to the next page 46. By the way I do not see Latin characters on that page. s. http://rodinbook.nl/olbscans.html.