[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Otharus]

These guys were at their best many ages ago, and it is because of them - and no one else - that we now know about the classics... and chemistry... and astronomy....and ancient Egypt, and mathematics ... and... and.. and.

I can imagine that before the big deforestation of Holland (Holt-, Holz-, Houtland), the Peoples here must have been artists with oakwood; buildings, ships, sculptures, etc. (some left from the Middle Ages).

Nothing material left of those Golden (Wooden) ages BC.

[Knul]

You have Frisian sources from before ca. 800 AD in which Roman ciphers are used?

The earliest Frisian laws, etc. were written in Latin.

[Otharus]

The earliest Frisian laws, etc. were written in Latin.

But were Roman ciphars (IVX etc.) used in them?

Anyway, those texts were written by monks.

It was a rhetorical question.

You said:

"The so called Arab ciphers came into use during the reign of Charles the Great (ca. 800).

Before the Roman ciphers were used."

We don't know when the so-called Arab ciphers came into use, only what is the oldest known (accepted) document that was saved in which they were used.

This is a common misunderstanding in this thread; that the oldest known source of something defines the age of that something.

Example: The oldest known mention of an "uilenbord" in the archives is from 1669. That does not mean they were invented in that year.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

Fragment of letter from Dr. Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden, dated 3-3-1877 (translation).

About a letter he had received from E. Leyte, editor of the German Correspondent in Baltimore, dated 6-2-1877.

The author informed me that in the wide mouth of the Amazon River, a group of islands is located, known as 'Inkas Islands', and inhabited to date by a human race with blue eyes and blond hair.

This information was of great value to me, because until now I had found nothing, that I could use to determine with some probability, a spot where Inka might have landed. I always expected that he would have ended up somewhere at the north-coast of Brasil, but now it has become clear to me, that the name of these islands keep a memory to Inka, and prove that he sailed and settled there with his fleet. The descendants of this colony of Frisians and Fins (specially the latter) will have moved land-inwards along the coasts of the Amazon River during many centuries, until they arrived at the westcoast of America, where they were found back in Chile and Peru, 3500 years later.

Isn't it remarkable that someone in Baltimore is motivated to send me a message that unexpectedly explains such a great mystery?

And isn't it remarkable as well that on those Inka Islands the Frisian type was preserved, and in Peru and Chile the Finnish type is found?

In a quick search, I could not find anything about those "Inka Islands".

If it's true, it would be quite interesting.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

I agree with Knul.

In the fragment, the author explains how big their territory once was (before the bad times came).

If the Frisian Middelsea was ment (as Abe insists), Westergo and Westfriesland would not have been part of the original territory.

Westfriesland was not lost until the late 13th century AD.

I wasn't talking about the 13th century:

The Battle of the Boarn (West Frisian: Slach oan de Boarn Dutch: Slag aan de Boorne) was an eighth century battle between the Franks and the Frisians near the mouth of the river Boarn in what is now the Dutch province of Friesland.

In 734 a Frankish army commanded by Majordomo Charles Martel invaded Friesland in a campaign that was part of a series of ongoing wars and skirmishes between the Franks and the Frisians. Marching along the river Boarn the Frankish army reached the mouth of the river where it used to flow into the Bordine estuary or Middelsee. This estuary has since silted up and been claimed for agriculture during the 10th to 14th century.

The Frisians commanded by King Poppo used boats to land their army and surprise the Franks. However, the Frisian army was beaten and Poppo killed. The Franks gained control of the Frisian lands west of the Lauwers estuary and the Frisians became vassals of the Franks apart from the tribes living in East Frisia in present day Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Boarn

[Abramelin]

But were Roman ciphars (IVX etc.) used in them?

Anyway, those texts were written by monks.

It was a rhetorical question.

You said:

"The so called Arab ciphers came into use during the reign of Charles the Great (ca. 800).

Before the Roman ciphers were used."

We don't know when the so-called Arab ciphers came into use, only what is the oldest known (accepted) document that was saved in which they were used.

This is a common misunderstanding in this thread; that the oldest known source of something defines the age of that something.

Example: The oldest known mention of an "uilenbord" in the archives is from 1669. That does not mean they were invented in that year.

The OLB dates either to the 19th century, or maybe even to the 13th century.

As long as no manuscript or inscription older than the 13th century is found, you cannot say that the OLB script and ciphers are the oldest and the ones where later Roman, Greek, Phoenician script and Hindu-Arabic ciphers came from.

[Abramelin]

Fragment of letter from Dr. Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden, dated Den Helder 3-3-1877 (translation).

About a letter he had received from E. Leyte, editor of the German Correspondent in Baltimore, dated 6-2-1877.

The author informed me that in the wide mouth of the Amazon River, a group of islands is located, known as 'Inkas Islands', and inhabited to date by a human race with blue eyes and blond hair.

This information was of great value to me, because until now I had found nothing, that I could use to determine with some probability, a spot where Inka might have landed. I always expected that he would have ended up somewhere at the north-coast of Brasil, but now it has become clear to me, that the name of these islands keep a memory to Inka, and prove that he sailed and settled there with his fleet. The descendants of this colony of Frisians and Fins (specially the latter) will have moved land-inwards along the coasts of the Amazon River during many centuries, until they arrived at the westcoast of America, where they were found back in Chile and Peru, 3500 years later.

Isn't it remarkable that someone in Baltimore is motivated to send me a message that unexpectedly explains such a great mystery?

And isn't it remarkable as well that on those Inka Islands the Frisian type was preserved, and in Peru and Chile the Finnish type is found?

In a quick search, I could not find anything about those "Inka Islands".

If it's true, it would be quite interesting.

I have shown you in this thread an old source with a legend that says it were Frisians who first discovered South America and made a colony there (Chile).

[Abramelin]

I can imagine that before the big deforestation of Holland (Holt-, Holz-, Houtland), the Peoples here must have been artists with oakwood; buildings, ships, sculptures, etc. (some left from the Middle Ages).

Nothing material left of those Golden (Wooden) ages BC.

The have discoverd remnants of wooden ships, houses and artifacts dating from many thousands of years ago. I have posted about those too.

[Abramelin]

I lived and worked in Delft. So I know the Dutch Westland very well. However, I think, that you are mislead by your theory that all happened around the Middel se (Leeuwarden) in contradiction to the text of the OLB, which clearly states, that the former Westland has been lost to the Gauls and Franks. The OLB never states, that the Westland has been lost to the Dutch. That happened only after the year 1256.

You think that to understand the OLB narrative that you have to follow the OLB time line and chronology, and I think you are wrong. You yourself talk about the Vikings and Godfried the Viking and Seaking: how's that then?

And I also said that the Middel Sea was used in both it's meanings or locations: the Frisian one, and the Mediterranean one.

[Otharus]

I wasn't talking about the 13th century:

From the context, it still makes no sense whatsoever that OLB's Middel Sea would refer to the Frisian Middle Sea, even within a hoax theory.

But I will waste no more time to this utter nonsense.

[Abramelin]

I have shown you in this thread an old source with a legend that says it were Frisians who first discovered South America and made a colony there (Chile).

Yesterday I said that the books written by 19th century Van den Bergh would be an interesting source to consider...

Well, they ARE !!

Today I read (ok, scrolled through) his book about Dutch legends and myths, and I read about Frisian colonies in Switzerland, how Zürich is a Frisian name, that (according to some legend) it were the Frisians who were the first to discover America... and had a colony in Chile.... ("Nef Inka", anyone??)

Nederlandse volksoverleveringen en godenleer - L. Ph. C. Van den Bergh (1836, Leiden)

(Dutch legends and mythology)

http://books.google.nl/books?id=wCkPAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA147&lpg=PA147&dq=Van+den+Bergh+/+Hamconius&source=bl&ots=kLNjPl6Wyd&sig=BnljqnFHIAOYmJ9qhOTUpp7GSHk&hl=nl&ei=_BXiTofaOYeDOoG4xMgE&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

An example of a page:

About America and Chile:

About the Frisians having discovered America before Columbus:

For those who can read Dutch and are interested in anything OLB, download this book.

+++

EDIT:

One of Friso's sons gave the Danes the name "Vithen".

Hey, weren't we all discussing where the name "Witkening/Witking/Vitking" came from?

Maybe nothing but "king of the Danes"?? LOL !!

.

[Otharus]

I have shown you in this thread an old source with a legend that says it were Frisians who first discovered South America and made a colony there (Chile).

But what about "Inka Islands" in the mouth of Amazon River, with a blue eyed tribe, that would have been known in the late 18-seventies?

[Abramelin]

From the context, it still makes no sense whatsoever that OLB's Middel Sea would refer to the Frisian Middle Sea, even within a hoax theory.

But I will waste no more time to this utter nonsense.

Yeah, then you better run off.

But it does make sense, especially in a hoax: there were TWO Middle Seas. Those two were used to confuse the readers.

[Abramelin]

But what about "Inka Islands" in the mouth of Amazon River, with a blue eyed tribe, that would have been known in the late 18-seventies?

I tell you something else: I even have a copy of those ancient documents as an appendix in a book. Some Portugese explorer entered deep into the Amazon jungle and says he and his men discovered huge ruins. The account also talks about blue eyed natives and strange inscriptions.... which did NOT look like the OLB script.

And do not forget: everything 'ancient' in South America was called "Inka" ages ago.

[Otharus]

The have discoverd remnants of wooden ships, houses and artifacts dating from many thousands of years ago. I have posted about those too.

That's only a fragment of what once existed.

99.99% or more will have been burnt or rotten away, specially in our cold and wet climate.

Even more so for our ancient writing materials (felt and pomp-leaves?).

[Abramelin]

That's only a fragment of what once existed.

99.99% or more will have been burnt or rotten away, specially in our cold and wet climate.

Even more so for our ancient writing materials (felt and pomp-leaves?).

You are forgetting something: the Fryans were supposed to have not only inhabited the Netherlands, but the whole of (Northern) Europe.

And what about those citadels made of bricks and stone? These must have been all over Europe too?

And one of the oldest finds in Friesland with writing dates from Roman times... but is written in Latin script. And it's on WOOD.

[Otharus]

You yourself talk about the Vikings and Godfried the Viking and Seaking

No I don't and never did.

I may have suggested that the word viking will have been derived from vitking.

I´d never place OLB´s Godfried in the Viking age.

[Abramelin]

No I don't and never did.

I may have suggested that the word viking will have been derived from vitking.

I´d never place OLB´s Godfried in the Viking age.

LOL, that was my respons to Knul, not to you.

[Otharus]

And what about those citadels made of bricks and stone? These must have been all over Europe too?

Who says they were made of bricks and stone?

They tend to be recycled anyway.

Even in the last few hundred years there have been palaces and castles of which no trace can be found now.

[Abramelin]

Who says they were made of bricks and stone?

They tend to be recycled anyway.

Even in the last few hundred years there have been palaces and castles of which no trace can be found now.

The OLB tells us they were made of bricks. The one in Texland was the largest, and ALL OTHERS were constructed using that one as example, but were smaller.

==

But we still find traces of cultures that must have lived alongside the Fryans.

=======

And one of the oldest finds in Friesland with writing dates from Roman times... but is written in Latin script. And it's on WOOD.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrijfplankje_van_Tolsum

.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

About those blue-eyed native South Americans:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=2684&showentry=23178

And here you will read about "Document 512", the one you can find online, btw:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=209532&st=0&p=4081842entry4081842

Here: http://www.sofadasala.com/english/lostcity00brazil.htm

.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

[109/14] Apol-lánja's writings

BOPPA THÉRE RÉNA TWISK THET BERCHTA. THÉR HÀV IK MÁR.SÁTA SJAN.

THA MÁR.SÁTA THÀT SEND MÀNNISKA THÉR INVPPA MÁRA HÉMA.

HJARA HUSA SEND VP PÀLUM BUWAD.

THÀT IS VRET WILDE KWIK ÀND BOSE MÀNNISKA.

THÉR SEND WOLVA BÁRA ÀND SWÁRTE GRISLIKA LÁWA.

ÀND HJA SEND THA SWETSAR JEFTHA PÀLENGGAR FON DA HÉINDE KRÉKA LANDER THÉRA KÀLTA FOLGAR ÀND THA VRWILDE RE. TWISKAR. ALLA GÍRICH NÉI RÁV ÀND BUT.

Fragment of letter from Dr. Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden, dated 16-3-1877 (translation).

But now for something of great importance. The black lions of Apollonia with the Marsaten have been found in Switzerland! They had always bothered me, although I for myself was confident, that they someday would show up; because the OLB does not lie!

Mr. J. Dirks namely informed the meeting that he had received a letter from Switzerland, from one of his prehistoric congress friends, about archaeological finds there. In a collection of bones of various species (including humans), the remains had been found of lions of a special species, that is now extinct. For us this is a colossal discovery!

[Knul]

But were Roman ciphars (IVX etc.) used in them?

Anyway, those texts were written by monks.

It was a rhetorical question.

You said:

"The so called Arab ciphers came into use during the reign of Charles the Great (ca. 800).

Before the Roman ciphers were used."

We don't know when the so-called Arab ciphers came into use, only what is the oldest known (accepted) document that was saved in which they were used.

This is a common misunderstanding in this thread; that the oldest known source of something defines the age of that something.

Example: The oldest known mention of an "uilenbord" in the archives is from 1669. That does not mean they were invented in that year.

If there is no documentary evidence, you should come up with archeological evidence. If there is no documentary evidence nor archeological evidence, you can rely on a hypothesis, but even a hypothesis should be based on known facts and circumstances, else it is your own imagination.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Knul

[Abramelin]

About those blue-eyed native South Americans:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=2684&showentry=23178

And here you will read about "Document 512", the one you can find online, btw:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=209532&st=0&p=4081842entry4081842

Here: http://www.sofadasala.com/english/lostcity00brazil.htm

.

And here is a scan of a translated page of Document 512 (I could not find the script in it online):

[Abramelin]

[109/14] Apol-lánja's writings

BOPPA THÉRE RÉNA TWISK THET BERCHTA. THÉR HÀV IK MÁR.SÁTA SJAN.

THA MÁR.SÁTA THÀT SEND MÀNNISKA THÉR INVPPA MÁRA HÉMA.

HJARA HUSA SEND VP PÀLUM BUWAD.

THÀT IS VRET WILDE KWIK ÀND BOSE MÀNNISKA.

THÉR SEND WOLVA BÁRA ÀND SWÁRTE GRISLIKA LÁWA.

ÀND HJA SEND THA SWETSAR JEFTHA PÀLENGGAR FON DA HÉINDE KRÉKA LANDER THÉRA KÀLTA FOLGAR ÀND THA VRWILDE RE. TWISKAR. ALLA GÍRICH NÉI RÁV ÀND BUT.

Fragment of letter from Dr. Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden, dated 16-3-1877 (translation).

But now for something of great importance. The black lions of Apollonia with the Marsaten have been found in Switzerland! They had always bothered me, although I for myself was confident, that they someday would show up; because the OLB does not lie!

Mr. J. Dirks namely informed the meeting that he had received a letter from Switzerland, from one of his prehistoric congress friends, about archaeological finds there. In a collection of bones of various species (including humans), the remains had been found of lions of a special species, that is now extinct. For us this is a colossal discovery!

?? How did they know those lions were black??

And btw: fossils and bones of extinct European lions (cave lions, 25 % larger than the modern African lions) have been found long before anyone ever heard of the OLB.

And oh wow, Ottema finally found out there were indeed lions!

Well, they were known more than two thousand years ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Lion

++++++++

EDIT:

Ah, I see why the OLB comes up with black lions:

.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Abramelin