[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[The Puzzler]

Look, we are talking about the OLB, right?

The OLB mentions "Walhalla.gara", and suggests it's where now is Walcheren.

I checked the original text again, and it's not once, but everywhere that it's called "Walhalla.gara".

TWO words, Walhalla and Gara.

It's getting boring, but before you go dig in all kinds of etymologies, you should first check what the original text says, and not the translations.

So, the suggestion is that the name of this place is based on something with 'Walhalla", not "Walha".

Also, Walhalla is mentioned several times in the OLB, the Walhalla every pagan can tell you about, lol.

So??? the Hades fringe theory is not that bad??? lol

OK, so it has a dot does it? Sheesh.

[The Puzzler]

The “wrongful customs” of the Magyar (see pg. 88) and elsewhere of the text probably have something to do with the evil Seidr that was spread by Gullveig, who was a Jotun maid. We have already seen her connection to the Magyars through the name Kalta. This sorcery corrupted the spirits of the Nordic folk which leads to Ragnarok. The “wrongful customs” of the Magyars corrupts “Frya’s folk” which is shown throughout O.L.B. (see pgs. 95-96 in particular) to have brought about the ruin of Nordic culture and society.

As we saw in the first book of Historia Danica, quoted in the first part of this treatise, the Jotuns of old were looked upon the euhemerists as a race of magicians who were constantly at war witht he other, second, race of magicians. In the Scandinavian lore these were the gods, in O.L.B. these were Frya’s folk. This conclusion serves to validate many of the results of the foregoing investigation. It shows, yet again, how closely connected the other euhemerized texts O.L.B. actually is, it confirms the identity of the Magyars as a historical replacement for the Jotuns, and it shows that the origin of O.L.B. is not as early as once believed, though the origins of its stories, like those of the other texts, are certainly much older.

http://www.norroena.org/research_oera_linda/chapter4.html

Because Odin is closely connected with a horse and spear and transformation/shape shifting into animal shapes an alternatively theory of origin contends that Odin or at least some of his key characteristics may have arisen just prior to the sixth century as a nightmareish horse god (Echwaz), later signified by the eight legged Sleipner. The original function of this horse was to carry the dead to wherever they were going and to sometimes snack on their flesh. Some support for Odin as a late comer to the Scandinavian Norse pantheon can be found in the Sagas where, for example, at one time he is thrown out of Asgard by the other gods - a seemingly unlikely tale for a well established "all father". Scholars who have linked Odin with the "Death God" template include E. A. Ebbinghaus, Jan de Vries and Thor Templin. The later two also link Loki and Odin as being one-and-the-same until the early Norse Period.

http://royharbin.tripod.com/staks/webwalks/xmas/odin_to_yule.html

The main symbol connecting all these distant cultures is the World Tree. This leads to Walhalla and for the Norse the tree was an ash which has the same meaning in saxon as spear, one of Odins weapons.

It is also a shamanic symbol. Like the Etrsucans the Valkyries had wings didn't they? I don't think these things including perhaps the OLB are meant to be taken literally but I am not really familiar with all the points at hand.

http://epistemic-forms.com/FacSite/Articles/world-ash-tree-stclair.html

http://epistemic-forms.com/FacSite/Articles/world-ash-tree-stclair.html

Thanks for that Slim, I will see what reference there is to this Walhalla.gara, because it seems now that Valhalla is involved. Wings - Hey yeah, maybe the Gods were slain valkyries!! Seriously.

[The Puzzler]

Say Jim, did you post all that because of the name Walhallagara?

Sorry, but I think both you and Puzz are shooting with scrapnell, lol.

You will hit something, always, but not necessarily the target.

The OLB says "Walhalla. Gara". I can't help it, blame those who wrote it.

I don't get this answer to Jim, Abe.

He was talking about Valhalla and you said: So it's no use trying to make it sound like it was some place of/for foreigners, or a place where foreigners arrived. The OLB itself calls it Walhalla.gara, and the OLB also uses the word Wahalla in it's original Nordic context (heaven, afterlife, place of the slain, and so on) in several places in the manuscript.

Maybe I missed something else.

[Abramelin]

So??? the Hades fringe theory is not that bad??? lol

OK, so it has a dot does it? Sheesh.

You jump around with so many theories within 20 minutes, it's sometimes hard to follow.

But no doubt you will remember what I have said like a zillion times about the original name of the North Sea, "Hell", and why it was called that way.

Yep, Walhalla.Gara has a dot.

[The Puzzler]

Puzz, I hope you read my former post about Walhallagara.

To that I'd like to add that Walhallagara is once spelled as "walhalla.gara", suggesting it's created of 2 words, 'walhalla' and 'gara'.

And does Walhalla show up in the OLB? Yes, it does:

NW WIL IK SKRIWA HO THA GÊRTMANNA AND FÊLO HÊLÊNJA

FOLGAR TOBEK KÊMON.

Thach thene bodja hêde jeta-n ora brêve mith

fenin, thêrmêi bifâl-er hja skolde thåt innimma, hwand sêid-er-vnwillinglik

is thin lif bivvllad, thåt ne skil jow navt to rêkned ni wrde, thach sâhwersa

jow jowe sêle bivvlath sa ne skil jow nimmerthe to Walhâlla ne kvma, jow

sêle skil thån ovir irtha ommewâra

Now I will relate how the Geertman and many followers of Hellenia came back.

But, said he, your bodies have been defiled against your will. That you are not to blame for; but if your souls are not pure, you will never come into Walhalla. Your spirits will haunt the earth in darkness.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/olb/olb41.htm

So the name appears to point to a place, a head land, where they remembered Walhalla.

So it's no use trying to make it sound like it was some place of/for foreigners, or a place where foreigners arrived. The OLB itself calls it Walhalla.gara, and the OLB also uses the word Wahalla in it's original Nordic context (heaven, afterlife, place of the slain, and so on) in several places in the manuscript.

.

That link is to the translated English version you suggest we don't use....what link is the OLB written part from here? so I get exact same one.

[Abramelin]

I don't get this answer to Jim, Abe.

He was talking about Valhalla and you said: So it's no use trying to make it sound like it was some place of/for foreigners, or a place where foreigners arrived. The OLB itself calls it Walhalla.gara, and the OLB also uses the word Wahalla in it's original Nordic context (heaven, afterlife, place of the slain, and so on) in several places in the manuscript.

Maybe I missed something else.

Because he mentioned the Valkyries.

Check what I quoted from his post, please.

[Abramelin]

That link is to the translated English version you suggest we don't use....what link is the OLB written part from here? so I get exact same one.

Jesus Puzz, if I only post the original text, someone will say, "Wtf does that gibberish mean?"

I said, READ MY LIPS (lol), First Check The Original Text.

We need sound here, then I can yell at ya.

Ah, the link, well, I already posted the link to the Overwijn book, but it appears not to work any longer.

But you can always check the photo copied pages of the OLB. You know the link to that site.

.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

You jump around with so many theories within 20 minutes, it's sometimes hard to follow.

But no doubt you will remember what I have said like a zillion times about the original name of the North Sea, "Hell", and why it was called that way.

Yep, Walhalla.Gara has a dot.

No, I don't remember you saying anything about that actually but it's late, I'm tired, my internet is p***ing me off - unless you mean named after Hel. Refresh me, why (do you say) was it called that way..?

[The Puzzler]

Jesus Puzz, if I only post the original text, someone will say, "Wtf does that gibberish mean?"

I said, READ MY LIPS (lol), First Check The Original Text.

We need sound here, then I can yell at ya.

Ah, the link, well, I already posted the link to the Overwijn book, but it appears not to work any longer.

But you can always check the photo copied pages of the OLB. You know the link to that site.

.

Yep, will do.

I'll have to return tomorrow now but keep posting anything relevant.

[Abramelin]

No, I don't remember you saying anything about that actually but it's late, I'm tired, my internet is p***ing me off - unless you mean named after Hel. Refresh me, why (do you say) was it called that way..?

?????

You don't remember me saying anything about that??

Maybe not here, but in this thread I linked to some posts on the Doggerland thread, that I am sure off. You even promised to read those posts.

OK, it were posts about Nehalennia. You MUST remember that, right?

And on the Doggerland thread I talked about Hell, Hades, the Styx (a river which coils 9 times around Hades), and so on.

You better go to sleep, and I will go cry a little.

[Abramelin]

I now have the book of Alewyn, the book that started this thread.

So I would like all of you to FOCUS on that topic, and not deviate to topics you all seem more addicted to.

The topic is: Alewyn's book about the "Oera Linda Book", and of course the OLB itself.

Do we agree on that??

==

My first impression was: nice lay-out. My compliments, Alewyn (Alas, where are the colored pics?? They are all black-and-white).

Then, several of Alewyn's claims have already been tackled by others in the beginning of this thread, when Alewyn posted several pages of his book.

The Friesland Island thing, I think I had a convincing answer to that one in the thread Riaan started about Friesland Island.

Yummy, somethimg to set my teeth in, lol.

.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Abramelin

[Oniomancer]

Whatever people...what do I care...?

FLEUR-DE-LIS (Fr. "lily flower"), an heraldic device, very widespread in the armorial bearings of all countries, but more particularly associated with the royal house of France. The conventional fleur-de-lis, as Littre says, represents very imperfectly three flowers of the white lily (Lilium) joined together, the central one erect, and each of the other two curving outwards. The fleur-de-lis is a common device in ancient decoration, notably in India and in Egypt,where it was the symbol of life and resurrection, the attribute of the god Horus. It is common also in Etruscan bronzes.

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Fleur-de-lis

"The essential point is that it is a very stylized figure, probably a flower, that has been used as an ornament or an emblem by almost all civilizations of the old and new worlds"

So, no good reason then to focus exclusively on any imagined connections between any two cultures. Same goes for common luxury goods, like animal skins regardless of the animal.

'Nuff said, before abe beans me with a clog.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Oniomancer

[The Puzzler]

?????

You don't remember me saying anything about that??

Maybe not here, but in this thread I linked to some posts on the Doggerland thread, that I am sure off. You even promised to read those posts.

OK, it were posts about Nehalennia. You MUST remember that, right?

And on the Doggerland thread I talked about Hell, Hades, the Styx (a river which coils 9 times around Hades), and so on.

You better go to sleep, and I will go cry a little.

lol don't take it personally mate, I read like thousands of articles and sometimes it's hard to recall which one YOU spoke or wrote about in a thread I wasn't really following, I would have read it if I said I was gonna but whether I remember exactly what YOU wrote is another thing....plus I'm trying to give up smoking, 3 days, and my brain and body is having these melt-downs, I feel sick too because of it, so my sincere apologies Abe.

Same reason I made like 10 posts in a row yesterday, trying to keep my fingers and mind busy.

This topic has gone is so many directions (I know, I havent helped that...), I can't even remember what I wrote, let alone what you wrote....

Yeah, I'm really glad you have the book, it's pretty good, I admire anyone who can put a book together as such.

Maybe you can add some direction with it here, I felt all over the place and couldn't quite peg a point to make from it, I look forward to what you have to discuss actually.

[The Puzzler]

"The essential point is that it is a very stylized figure, probably a flower, that has been used as an ornament or an emblem by almost all civilizations of the old and new worlds"

So, no good reason then to focus exclusively on any imagined connections between any two cultures. Same goes for common luxury goods, like animal skins regardless of the animal.

'Nuff said, before abe beans me with a clog.

Sure, but some do follow a pattern of being related to a particular people more than others, or one group will take it on as their own. It's on Etruscan bronzes so you can't tell me it's not the fleur-de-lis I showed you, it's not some sort of weird flower, it's the fleur-de-lis, the article confirmed it. That's not the only one. That is different to that other article (which was someones opinion, on the ermine being leopard, it does look like leopard until you realise it really probably ermine)

It's not really imagined, the Franks claim to be of the Trojan line and I saw 2 things that (to me) seems to look like they had followed through from Trojan to French.

Even if the actual line is not true as in genealogy, (and I'm not shirking on that issue but at present I do not have proof the genealogy DOES go through as in blood) that the French do make this claim, the Merovingians - the symbolism would be retained of who they claimed to be. Thats why not only do they have the fleur de lis and the ermine, but also Paris and Hector on the Jack card, Etruscans were known to be Trojans so I don't see why it would be unusual to have taken on the symbols that represented Trojans..ie; Etruscans.

Yes, I know the Parisii were in the area of Paris and probably gave their name to the city but the name still means liberty, and we do see Paris wearing a liberty cap also in that same Divine Mirror.

The Phrygians, Bryges, Bruges, Belgium.

If you stop looking for Troy in Asia Minor it starts to make more sense how all these Europeans are descended from Trojans. I think it was Pausanius who declared the Tyrhennians were not from Lydia. Evidence is showing they came from the Villanovian culture so if they did, how can they be Trojans from Asia Minor, wouldn't it be more logical if the Trojan War was in the local area?? Anyway, I have a topic on that which I need to get back to.

But of course, that's going against the grain and hence everyone seems to be telling great big porky pies. (lies).

Yeah, I think Abe's about to bean me with a clog soon too.....

Edited August 31, 2010 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Here's a commentary about the OLB, in Swedish (translated with Google):

http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fjozef.saers.com%2FOeraLinda.htm&sl=sv&tl=en

http://jozef.saers.com/OeraLinda.htm

From the gobbledygook that Google makes of it, I understand it's something about the OLB taking place in Denmark/Sweden/Baltic.

So even though it's hard to read, I think you will like it, Puzz.

Yes, thanks, I do like it, even though it's hard to understand, but those 3 areas are where I do place them coming from and then either settling in Frisia at a later time or the area going down to rough border with Belgium, south of Rhine mouths.

Does anyone know when Adela was supposed to have written?

[Alewyn]

I now have the book of Alewyn, the book that started this thread.

My first impression was: nice lay-out. My compliments, Alewyn (Alas, where are the colored pics?? They are all black-and-white).

The Friesland Island thing, I think I had a convincing answer to that one in the thread Riaan started about Friesland Island.

Yummy, somethimg to set my teeth in, lol.

.

Sorry about the black and white pics but there are just too many. The book would have been much too expensive in colour.

I hope you will read the book from cover to cover. You cannot just read parts like Puzzler. I have tried to examine the OLB in chronological order to make sense of it all. It is pretty much like reading a detective story. If you leave out parts, or jump around, it will never make sense. If, however, you follow the story line, it all comes together.

The Frisland thing is just an add-on and is, strictly speaking, not about the OLB.

I hope you enjoy the read.

[The Puzzler]

Sorry about the black and white pics but there are just too many. The book would have been much too expensive in colour.

I hope you will read the book from cover to cover. You cannot just read parts like Puzzler. I have tried to examine the OLB in chronological order to make sense of it all. It is pretty much like reading a detective story. If you leave out parts, or jump around, it will never make sense. If, however, you follow the story line, it all comes together.

The Frisland thing is just an add-on and is, strictly speaking, not about the OLB.

I hope you enjoy the read.

I will read it from cover to cover but in the timeframe from when I received it and wanting to add posts here I didn't have that much time up my sleeve actually. I do have a 4 year old little boy, and 2 young teens and a family life going on, except for my time I allot to be on here I hardly have time to scratch my butt.

[Oniomancer]

Sure, but some do follow a pattern of being related to a particular people more than others, or one group will take it on as their own. It's on Etruscan bronzes so you can't tell me it's not the fleur-de-lis I showed you, it's not some sort of weird flower, it's the fleur-de-lis, the article confirmed it.

But the quote I gave was specifically relating to the fleur-de-lis. Iris are native all over the world.

there's wild iris growing in the swamp a mile from me. I'm pretty sure they weren't planted by roving Etruscans.

That's not the only one. That is different to that other article (which was someones opinion, on the ermine being leopard, it does look like leopard until you realise it really probably ermine)

But there's an element of doubt introduced and as I said, ermine is a widespread luxury good. I think you'll find all european royalty wore them, not just the french.

It's not really imagined, the Franks claim to be of the Trojan line and I saw 2 things that (to me) seems to look like they had followed through from Trojan to French.

Even if the actual line is not true as in genealogy, (and I'm not shirking on that issue but at present I do not have proof the genealogy DOES go through as in blood) that the French do make this claim, the Merovingians - the symbolism would be retained of who they claimed to be. Thats why not only do they have the fleur de lis and the ermine, but also Paris and Hector on the Jack card, Etruscans were known to be Trojans so I don't see why it would be unusual to have taken on the symbols that represented Trojans..ie; Etruscans.

Puz, _everybody_ claims decent from the Trojans. In the course of genealogy research, I've seen purported lineages linking them to almost every major European cultural group, often by the most circuitous means. And they don't stop there. All the lines that link to Troy link Troy directly to the biblical Hebrews, straight back to Adam and Eve. That should be the tip off right there. All it is is one big paste-up job intended to lend legitimacy to the monarchy and divine right of rule.

Yes, I know the Parisii were in the area of Paris and probably gave their name to the city but the name still means liberty, and we do see Paris wearing a liberty cap also in that same Divine Mirror.

The Phrygians, Bryges, Bruges, Belgium.

Right. and Rome, Syracuse and Utica NY were founded by those same wandering 'truscies too. It's an honorific after the fact, like the way Jerusalem and Bathesda in Great Britain are named after their counterparts rather than being established by ancient Israelites.

It's all just the same name game the writers of the OLB played, with no relation to real world historical migrations.

[The Puzzler]

Hmmm. Everybody claims decent from the Trojans...lol - It does seem that way. Divine right, yeah could be I spose.

I'll have to check some of those Troy-Hebrew connections out.

OK, I'll leave it at that before Abe gets a PAIR of clogs to bean me with because I'm getting more and more off topic...if I think of anything else on this matter, I'll add it in my Trojan War thread.

[cormac mac airt]

It's not really imagined, the Franks claim to be of the Trojan line and I saw 2 things that (to me) seems to look like they had followed through from Trojan to French.

Even if the actual line is not true as in genealogy, (and I'm not shirking on that issue but at present I do not have proof the genealogy DOES go through as in blood) that the French do make this claim, the Merovingians - the symbolism would be retained of who they claimed to be. Thats why not only do they have the fleur de lis and the ermine, but also Paris and Hector on the Jack card, Etruscans were known to be Trojans so I don't see why it would be unusual to have taken on the symbols that represented Trojans..ie; Etruscans.

Here's a little something from one of the best genealogical sites I know dealing with Royalty and, in this case, the Franks and Merovingian Kings.

Early sources are inconsistent regarding the origin of the Franks. Gregory of Tours is cautious, recording that "it is commonly said" that they came from Pannonia, crossed the Rhine, and marched through Thuringia, citing "the historians whose works we still have" (although none of these works to which he refers appears to have survived to the present day)[1]. If this is correct, Frankish occupation of Pannonia predated the arrival of the Ostrogoths, which is probably dated to the last decades of the 4th century from the account provided by Jordanes in his mid-6th century Getica[2]. The possibility of an early connection with Thuringia is reinforced by Chlodio's supposed grandson King Childerich seeking refuge there during his temporary exile from France. A more colourful version of the early history of the Franks is provided by the 7th century chronicler known as Fredegar who records a Trojan origin, and asserts that Merovech was conceived when Chlodio's wife went swimming and encountered a Quinotaur[3]. Ian Wood comments that there is no reason to believe that the Franks were involved in any long distance migration, as "archaeology and history suggest that they originated in the lands immediately to the east of the Rhine"[4]. This could also indicate Thuringia.

FRANKS, MEROVINGIAN KINGS

Rather puts a damper on the Franks descending from the Trojans, particularly as the ancestry of Chlodio is completely unknown, leaving around 1600 years of lost history. Someone must have had a good time "filling in the blanks".

cormac

[The Puzzler]

Here's a little something from one of the best genealogical sites I know dealing with Royalty and, in this case, the Franks and Merovingian Kings.

FRANKS, MEROVINGIAN KINGS

Rather puts a damper on the Franks descending from the Trojans, particularly as the ancestry of Chlodio is completely unknown, leaving around 1600 years of lost history. Someone must have had a good time "filling in the blanks".

cormac

If anything, I don't think they migrated from Asia Minor, I think they developed from Etruscans who had been ousted out of Latium and through Umbria as the Romans came to the fore.

This explanation may record the migration out of Troy of the Etruscans to Italy or it might be just as assumption of how the Trojans got to the Rhine...

Like many Germanic peoples, the Franks developed an origin story to connect themselves with peoples of antiquity. In the case of the Franks, these peoples were the Sicambri and the Trojans. An anonymous work of 727 called Liber Historiae Francorum states that following the fall of Troy, 12,000 Trojans led by chiefs Priam and Antenor moved to the Tanais (Don) river, settled in Pannonia near the Sea of Azov and founded a city called "Sicambria". In just two generations (Priam and his son Marcomer) from the fall of Troy (by modern scholars dated in the late Bronze Age) they arrive in the late fourth century at the Rhine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks

Not 1200BC to 400AD but from Troy to Umbria c.1100BC then out of Umbria after the Romans take over c. 300BC, into the lower Rhine Valley where they are recorded by the Romans c 50AD and then into France.

Did you read the Wiki link.....hey Abe, maybe you actually speak Trojan...

The cultural and linguistic descendants of the Franks, the modern Dutch-speakers of the Netherlands and Flanders, seem to have broken with this endonym around the 9th century as Frankish identity had gradually changed from an ethnic identity to a national identity and was now mostly used by, and refering to, Old Gallo-Romance-speaking inhabitants of the Frankish Empire; the future French.

[The Puzzler]

Because the question I ask is....what happened to the Etruscans when Rome took over?

Tarquinius was banished and quite 'frankly' I think many of them left the area.

The Tyrhennians are the Trojan refugees according to oldest reports (Herodotus) but then it's Romans who are Trojans through Aeneus, so if we cut out Aeneus as mythical we get left with the Latiums must have been Trojans, hence the Romans are Trojans.

I don't think the Romans were Trojans, I think Virgil made that up to as omniomancer said, to give themselves that Trojan link, but it wasn't the Romans who were Trojans, it was the Etruscans.

The ousted Etruscans would carry the Trojan line, not the Romans who supposedly derived from Aeneus, in Latium. ie; the Romulus line.

I am going to divert these last couple of posts to the Trojan War thread I have going now, if you want to respond please do there so we don't upset Abe....

Edited August 31, 2010 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

lol don't take it personally mate, I read like thousands of articles and sometimes it's hard to recall which one YOU spoke or wrote about in a thread I wasn't really following, I would have read it if I said I was gonna but whether I remember exactly what YOU wrote is another thing....plus I'm trying to give up smoking, 3 days, and my brain and body is having these melt-downs, I feel sick too because of it, so my sincere apologies Abe.

Same reason I made like 10 posts in a row yesterday, trying to keep my fingers and mind busy.

This topic has gone is so many directions (I know, I havent helped that...), I can't even remember what I wrote, let alone what you wrote....

Yeah, I'm really glad you have the book, it's pretty good, I admire anyone who can put a book together as such.

Maybe you can add some direction with it here, I felt all over the place and couldn't quite peg a point to make from it, I look forward to what you have to discuss actually.

I think I can say I read as much as you do, and sometimes I have a book lying on my lap while I am posting.

OK, I am not going to say where exactly you said something, but I remember most of what you said, even though it's a lot, lol.

=

And I now also have a problem concentrating: today I got a root canal treatment, and now half my face feels numb.

And that after 5 days of pain like hell and almost no sleep.

[Abramelin]

Sorry about the black and white pics but there are just too many. The book would have been much too expensive in colour.

I hope you will read the book from cover to cover. You cannot just read parts like Puzzler. I have tried to examine the OLB in chronological order to make sense of it all. It is pretty much like reading a detective story. If you leave out parts, or jump around, it will never make sense. If, however, you follow the story line, it all comes together.

The Frisland thing is just an add-on and is, strictly speaking, not about the OLB.

I hope you enjoy the read.

It's no problem Alewyn, the pictures are clear and very explaining. I only said it because I remember seeing the colored ones online, the ones I posted in this thread.

And no doubt I will enjoy the read !

[The Puzzler]

I think I can say I read as much as you do, and sometimes I have a book lying on my lap while I am posting.

OK, I am not going to say where exactly you said something, but I remember most of what you said, even though it's a lot, lol.

=

And I now also have a problem concentrating: today I got a root canal treatment, and now half my face feels numb.

And that after 5 days of pain like hell and almost no sleep.

Eek, that's awful, I seriously feel for you, my dentist sucks, he's so rude, I was sooking a bit when he was ripping out my wisdon tooth and he says..."well, we'd all like to be out having an ice-cream.." in a sarcastic voice...******.