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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


Riaan
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... the Fryas before Friso (see page.151-154 of original manuscript) were more matriarchal...

[153/13]

INNA BOSM THES FOLKIS ANTSTONDON NW TWA PARTÍJA.

THA ALDA ÀND ÀRMA WILDON WITHER ÉNE MODER HÀ.

MEN THÀT JONGK.FOLK THÀT FVL STRÍDLUST WÉRE.

WILDE.NE TÁT JEFHA KÀNING HÁ.

THA ÉROSTA HÉTO HJARA SELVA MODER HIS SVNA

ÀND THA ÔTHERA HÉTON HJARA SELVA TÁT.HIS SVNA.

MEN THA MODER.HIS SVNA NE WRDE NAVT NI MELD.

HWAND THRVCHDAM THÉR FÉLO SKÉPA MÁKED WRDE.

WAS HÉR OVIRFLOD TO FARA SKIPMÁKAR.

SMÉDA. SÍL.MÁKAR RÉP.MÁKER

ÀND TO FARA ALLE ÔRA AMBACHTIS LJUD.

THÉR TO BOPPA BROCHTON THA SÉ.KÀMPAR ALLERLÉJA SÍRHÉDA MITH.

THÉR FON HÉDON THA WIVA NOCHT.

THA FÁMNA NOCHT.

THA MANGÉRTNE NOCHT.

ÀND THÉROF HÉDON AL HJARA MÉGUM NOCHT

ÀND AL HJARA FRJUNDUM ÀND ÁTHUM.

[sandbach p.207]

Among the people there now existed two parties.

The old and the poor wished to have the mother again,

but the young and the warlike wished for a father and a king.

The first called themselves mother's sons,

the others father's sons,

but the mother's sons did not count for much;

because there were many ships to build,

there was a good time for all kinds of workmen.

Moreover, the sea-rovers brought all sorts of treasures,

with which the maidens were pleased,

the girls were pleased, and their relations and friends.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

My idea is, that just like after every major 'revolution', the Friso-Frisians (patriarchally organised Gértmen, from India and Alexander's army) have tried to erase the past of the Frya-Frisians (matriarchal Frya's that had never left their motherland). (See Frisian 'fantastic' historiography of Scarlensis, in which prince Friso from India finds this land only inhabited by a few primitive 'giants'...)

Then came the Romans and after them Christianization (then Reformation, Enlightenment, French Revolution, etc.).

If the Germans would have won the WWII, I would have learned at school that they had liberated us and had finally introduced a decent civilization. I would have learned that before Holland became part of the 'Third Empire', it had been a degenerated, primitive wasteland around here.

They would have destroyed books, art, symbolic buildings etcetera.

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Survivors of the Great Tsunami (Edition 1 page 177; Edition 2 Page 204)

DNA Evidence

A report by Bijal P. Trivedi written in May 2001 entitled Genetic evidence suggests European migrants may have influenced the origins of Indias caste system, appear to provide the ultimate proof that the Gertmanne were the Aryans. The report is reproduced here verbatim:

A new study has revealed that Indians belonging to higher castes are genetically closer to Europeans than are individuals from lower castes, whose genetic profiles are closer to those of Asians.

The study compared genetic markerslocated on the Y chromosome and the mitochondrial DNAbetween 265 Indian men of various castes and 750 African, Asian, European and other Indian men. To broaden the study, 40 markers from chromosomes 1 to 22 were analyzed from more than 600 individuals from different castes and continents. The comparison of the markers among these groups confirmed that genetic similarities to Europeans increased as caste rank increased

The study, led by Michael Bamshad of the University of Utah, in Salt Lake City, and his colleagues, is reported to be the most comprehensive genetic analysis to date of the impact of European migrations on the structure and origin of the current Indian population. The article appears in the current issue of Genome Research

The caste system, defined in ancient Sanskrit texts, determines a person's rank in society: The Brahmin, who were traditionally priests and scholars, held the highest rank in Hindu society. Warriors and rulers made up the Kshatriya who were the next in line to the Brahmin. Merchants, traders, farmers, and artisans were the third caste called the Vysya. The Shudra were the fourth rank and consisted of labourers. Because of strict rules forbidding marriage between men and women of different castes, these four classes remained distinct for thousands of years.

Bamshad's team found that Y chromosomes from the Brahmin and Kshatriya closely resembled European Y chromosomes rather than Asian Y chromosomes. The Y chromosomes from the lower castes bore more similarities to the Asian Y chromosome. The mitochondrial DNA showed the same pattern.

The authors believe their results support the notion that Europeans who migrated into India between 3,000 and 8,000 years ago may have merged with or imposed their social structure on the indigenous northern Indians and placed themselves into the highest castes.

Analysis of the paternally transmitted Y chromosome among Indians in general indicated that the Y chromosome had a more European flavour. Maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA among Indians is more Asian than European. This suggests that the Europeans who entered India were predominantly male.

(Bijal P. Trivedi: Article in Genome Research, May 2001.)

Something else:

Survivors of the Great Tsunami (Edition 1 page 174; Edition 2 Page 201)

The Aryans

In the ancient texts of Zoroastrianism, the Avesta, and in the oldest texts of Hinduism, the Rig-Veda, we find the term Arya by which the old Indo-Iranians were apparently identified. Historians seem to agree more or less that both Zoroastrianism, the monotheistic religion of old Persia, and Hinduism in India, came into existence in the mid-second millennium BC. This indicates that the so-called Aryans arrived on the scene in ca 1500 BC the same time as the Gertmanne. The name Aryan or Aryan race was derived from this term, and relegated to infamy by the Nazis during the first half of the 20th century AD. Since then, all references to these Aryans have been treated with suspicion.

The Naqsh-e Rostam inscription in Iran gives us the following on Darius I of Persia (550-486 BCE), also known as Darius the Great:

I am Darius, the Great King, King of Kings, King of countries containing all kinds of men, King in this great earth far and wide, son of Hystaspes, an Achaemenian, a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan, having Aryan lineage

The debate on who these people were and whether there ever was an Aryan or Indo-Aryan invasion in South Asia has been continuing for almost two centuries. All evidence gathered for this book points to the fact that the A-ryans were the F-ryans the Gertmanne from Athenia who settled relatively peaceful in the Punjab.

On his website adaniels info site hosted by Tripod, Aharon Daniel published a dissertation entitled Aryans and Dravidians a controversial issue. This concise account seems to capture the essence of the accepted theories regarding the Aryans:

According to general Indian legend, the Aryans arrived in north India somewhere from Iran and southern Russia at around 1500 BC. Before the Aryans, the Dravidian people resided in India. The Aryans disregarded the local cultures. They began conquering and taking control over regions in north India and at the same time pushed the local people southwards or towards the jungles and mountains in north India. According to this historical fact the general division of Indian society is made. North Indians are Aryans and south Indians are Dravidians. But this division isnt proper because of many reasons.

Many Indians immigrated from one part of India to other parts of India and not all local people of north India were pushed southwards by the Aryans. Some stayed and served the Aryans and others moved to live in the forests and the jungles of north India. Before the arrival of the Aryans there were also other communities in India like Sino-Mongoloids and Austroloids. There were also other foreign immigrations and invaders who arrived in India, from time to time.

There are many that completely doubt that there was ever any Aryan invasion in India. This scepticism is based on the dating of the Aryan invasion of India and the fact that Hinduism and the caste system are believed to have been established as the result of the meetings between the intruding Aryans and original residents of India, the Dravidians.

The caste system is believed to have been established by the Aryans. The fair skinned Aryans who occupied parts of India established the caste system, which allowed only them to be the priests (Brahman), aristocracy (Kshatria) and the businessmen (Vaisia) of the society. Below them in hierarchy were the Sudras who consisted of two communities. One community was of the locals who were subdued by the Aryans and the other was the descendants of Aryans with locals. In Hindu religious stories there are many wars between the good Aryans and the dark skinned demons and devils. The different gods also have dark skinned slaves. There are stories of demon women trying to seduce good Aryan men in deceptive ways. There were also marriages between Aryan heroes and demon women. Many believe that these incidences really occurred in which, the gods and the positive heroes were people of Aryan origin. And the demons, the devils and the dark skinned slaves were in fact the original residence of India whom the Aryans coined as monsters, devil, demons and slaves. Normally the date given to Aryan invasion is around 1500 BC.

Aharon Daniel confirms here what the Oera Linda Book says about the foreign priests: Before the arrival of the Aryans there were also other communities in India like Sino-Mongoloids… In the model proposed in this book, these would be the Shamaans from the Altai region.

It is quite enlighting to note that old Admiral Liudgert did not mention this racial segregation, the caste system, when he arrived in Western Europe. He must have been wise enough to conclude that the Fryan people would not understand it.

Another web-page on the Aryans by Richard Hooker also gives a good description of our Gertmanne. In their defence we can only conclude that, once again, this is how outsiders described them. Perhaps they were not too fond of writing as Richard Hooker describes them, or perhaps their writings did not survive because, inter alia, it would have been written on paper and in a language foreign to later generations. Again, they left no paper trial, so let us look at some quotes from Hookers page:

They were unquestionably a tough people, and they were fierce and war-like.

Their culture was oriented around warfare, and they were very good at it. They were superior on horseback and rushed into battle in chariots.

They maintained the Aryan tribal structure, with a raja (reeve?) ruling over the tribal group in tandem with a council.

What did the Aryans do with their time? They seem to have had a well-developed musical culture, and song and dance dominated their society. They were not greatly invested in the visual arts, but their interest in lyric poetry was unmatched. They loved gambling. They did not, however, have much interest in writing even though they could have inherited a civilization and a writing system when they originally settled in India.

When they arrived, the vast northern plains were almost certainly densely forested. Where now bare fields stretch to the horizon, when the Aryans arrived lush forests stretched to those very same horizons. Clearing the forests over the centuries was an epic project and one that is still preserved in Indian literature.

Old Admiral Liudgert mentioned this bush clearing in his letter written around 300 BC, and quoted by Konered in the Oera Linda Book. This is undeniable proof that the Oera Linda Book cannot be a 19th century hoax.

21. On the west of the Pangab where we come from, and where I was born, the same fruits and crops grow as on the east side. Formerly there existed also the same crawling animals, but our forefathers burnt all the underwood, and so diligently hunted all the wild animals, that there are scarcely any left.

//////////

Indo-Aryan migration scenario advocated in ref. 19 rested on the

suggestion that all Indian caste groups are similar to each other

while being significantly different from the tribes. Using a much

more representative data set, numerically, geographically, and

definitively, it was not possible to confirm any of the purported

differentiations between the caste and tribal pools.

and

Conclusions

It is not necessary, based on the current evidence, to look beyond

South Asia for the origins of the paternal heritage of the majority

of Indians at the time of the onset of settled agriculture. The

perennial concept of people, language, and agriculture arriving

to India together through the northwest corridor does not hold

up to close scrutiny. Recent claims for a linkage of haplogroups

J2, L, R1a, and R2 with a contemporaneous origin for the

majority of the Indian castes paternal lineages from outside the

subcontinent are rejected, although our findings do support a

local origin of haplogroups F* and H. Of the others, only J2

indicates an unambiguous recent external contribution, from

West Asia rather than Central Asia. The current distributions of

haplogroup frequencies are, with the exception of theOlineages,

predominantly driven by geographical, rather than cultural determinants.

Ironically, it is in the northeast of India, among the

TB groups that there is clear-cut evidence for large-scale demic

diffusion traceable by genes, culture, and language, but apparently

not by agriculture.

Source: A prehistory of Indian Y chromosomes: Evaluating demic diffusion scenarios (2005)

So no, the 2001 study is NOT supported.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt
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First I will translate the terms you use back into OLB-lingo, to avoid confusion.

1 "Gevretman or Count" = GRÉVETMAN

2 "Duke" = HÉRTOGA = HÉR.MAN = KÉNING

3 "Burghomeister" = BURCH.MÀSTER

4 "Sea King" = SÉ.KÉNING

5 "Warrior King" = KÉNING

6 "Admiral" = WIT.KÉNING = SÉ.KÉNING

7 "Alderman" = ALDERMÀN = GRÉVETMAN

8 "Merchants" = KÁPLJUD

9 "Officer" = HÉR.MAN = KÉNING

10 "Marshalls" = ??? (not found in your translation)

11 "Magistrates" = GRÉVETMAN

So that reduces your impressive list to:

1 = 7 = 11: GRÉVETMAN

2 = 5 = 9: HÉRTOGA, HÉR.MAN or KÉNING

3: BURCH.MÀSTER

4 = 6: SÉ.KÉNING or WIT.KÉNING

8: KÁPLJUD

It would appear that your ability to interpret the OLB is even worse than my command of the Dutch language:

1. A Sea King WAS NOT an Admiral. The OLB is very clear about that. Just read the history of Tunis & Inka again. One was elected a Sea King and the other an Admiral. Why would the OLB have made the distinction (in one sentence!) if they were both the same?

“When the young warriors had assembled together, they chose Wodin to be their leader or king. The naval force chose Tunis for their sea-king and Inka for their rear-admiral.”

2. In the very first chapter the OLB clearly differentiates between some of the different positions:

“These are the names of the Grevetmen (Counts) under whose auspices this book is composed:

1. Apol, Adela’s husband; three times HE WAS sea-king; now HE IS Count over Astfliland and over the Linda areas. The burghs Liudgarda, Lindahem, and Stavia are under his hat (jurisdiction).

2. The Saxman Storo, Sytia’s husband; Count over the high moorlands and forests. Nine times HE WAS chosen as Duke, that is commander. The burghs Buda and Mannagardaforda are under his jurisdiction.

3. Abelo, Jaltia’s husband; count over the Southern Flylands (marshlands). Four times HE WAS commander. The burghs Aken, Liudburgh, and Katsburgh are under his jurisdiction.

4. Enoch, Dywcke’s husband; count over West Flyland and Texland . Nine times HE WAS chosen as sea-king. Waraburgh , Medeasblik , Forana, and Fryasburgh are under his jurisdiction.

5. Foppe, Dunro’s husband; count over the Seven Islands . Five times HE WAS sea-king. The burgh Walhallagara is under his jurisdiction.”

From the above it is quite clear that Counts, Dukes (commanders), sea kings, etc are different positions. If you read on you will see that Magistrates (Jurists) were different from Grevetmen (politicians / administrators)

In your fervor to make a movie and be heralded the “rediscoverer” of the OLB, you do not necessarily have to discredit my attempts. Just stick to the facts and you will gain much more credibility.

A word of caution (or friendly advise, if you wish): Do not make the same mistake as Steele by corrupting the OLB to meet your own agenda. I am certain you will understand what I mean without spelling it out here.

For more than a 140 years the Dutch have tried to silence any non-Dutch investigators with the lame tactic that we do not understand the language. That is nonsense and I have now proven that. The more subtle differences in interpretations here and there between Dutch and non-Dutch speakers does not detract from the overall message of the OLB despite your attempts to over-emphasize these.

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It would appear that your ability to interpret the OLB is even worse than my command of the Dutch language:

1. A Sea King WAS NOT an Admiral. The OLB is very clear about that. Just read the history of Tunis & Inka again. One was elected a Sea King and the other an Admiral.

The OLB is not written in Dutch, but in Oldfrisian (or a reconstruction of it).

I read and understand it in the original language.

You used the English and Dutch translations from 1876, that are both full of mistakes.

This thread has loads of examples of that by now.

I used your very own translation to translate your "admiral" (not used in OLB) back, but it appears that you have not been consequent. (Don't blame me for that):

From your translation (2nd ed.):

p.339 - "The king (Admiral) twelve portions, the rear admiral seven"

Original p.27: "THI WIT KÉNING TWILF MÔNIS DÉLA. THI SKOLT BY NACHT SJUGUN DÉLA"

So you yourself suggested that king = admiral.

(This was the first time the word appeared in your translation and I did not look further. I assumed you would have been consequent. Besides, you said "admiral", not "rear-admiral".)

Now, who is corrupting the OLB?!

Your translation is a mess.

Edited by Otharus
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From the above it is quite clear that Counts, Dukes (commanders), sea kings, etc are different positions. If you read on you will see that Magistrates (Jurists) were different from Grevetmen (politicians / administrators)

Your translation (2nd ed., p.333)

11. At the election of the defenders no-one of distinction in the burgh will have a voice,

neither the magistrates nor other leaders, but only the common folk.

The original manuscript (p.16):

11. BY THÀT KJASA FON THA WÉRAR NE MÉI NIMMEN FON THÉRA BURCH NÉN STEM NAVT NE HÀVA.

NI THA GRÉVETMANNA JEFTA ÔTHERA HÁVEDA. MÀN THÀT BLÀTA FOLK ALLÉNA.

It's sad to see you loose your credibility.

Edited by Otharus
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(...)

For more than a 140 years the Dutch have tried to silence any non-Dutch investigators with the lame tactic that we do not understand the language. That is nonsense and I have now proven that. The more subtle differences in interpretations here and there between Dutch and non-Dutch speakers does not detract from the overall message of the OLB despite your attempts to over-emphasize these.

Is this another round of the same nonsense we all have been over again and again??

First it was said the OLB is being suppressed in the Netherlands, now non-Dutch investigators are being silenced.

Yeah, any book about the OLB is hidden in a vault...

But Otharus is right: there are many mistakes in the current translations of the OLB, and some cause a sentence to have a totally different meaning from what was intended.

The overall message may not change, but if you want to investigate the text of the OLB and see how it is or is not being corroborated by facts, then you will have to be very precise. An example is that sentence about 'Skenland' Puzz and I have been discussing just now:

Skênland was sunnich bifolkath, ând anda aefter-kâd thaet sunnichste fon al.

My Dutch translation:

Skenland was zuinig bevolkt, en aan de acherkant het zuinigste van al.

My English translation:

Skenland was thinly populated, and at its backside (in its hinterland) the thinnest of all.

Sandbach's translation:

Schoonland was thinly inhabited, particularly the upper part.

=

Oh, and the OLB may be written in Old Frisian, but modern Dutch is a direct descendent, and from what I learned during this thread, much closer to Old Frisian than modern English is.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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For more than a 140 years the Dutch have tried to silence any non-Dutch investigators with the lame tactic that we do not understand the language.

Please give one example of a non-Dutch investigator that 'the Dutch' (who? be specific) have tried to silence.

The OLB suggests that from 2200 BC till 300 BC (except some times of crisis) the Frya's had chosen 'Folk-Mothers' as their highest authority.

Then you suggest that anyone who describes this civilization as a 'matriarchy' has not understood the OLB.

I have argued why I don't agree with you and I gave some examples of your confusing (misleading) translations.

How is that trying to silence you?!

I have quoted you on my blog before and there is even a link to your website.

I rather let you speak frankly like you just did and expose yourself, than silence you.

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Your translation (2nd ed., p.333)

11. At the election of the defenders no-one of distinction in the burgh will have a voice,

neither the magistrates nor other leaders, but only the common folk.

The original manuscript (p.16):

11. BY THÀT KJASA FON THA WÉRAR NE MÉI NIMMEN FON THÉRA BURCH NÉN STEM NAVT NE HÀVA.

NI THA GRÉVETMANNA JEFTA ÔTHERA HÁVEDA. MÀN THÀT BLÀTA FOLK ALLÉNA.

It's sad to see you loose your credibility.

A magistrate is an officer of the state; in modern usage the term usually refers to a judge. This was not always the case; in ancient Rome, a magistratus was one of the highest government officers and possessed both judicial and executive powers. Today, in common law systems, a magistrate has limited law enforcement and administration authority. In civil law systems, a magistrate might be a judge in a superior court; the magistrates' court might have jurisdiction over civil and criminal cases. A related, but not always equivalent, term is chief magistrate, which historically can denote a political and administrative officer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magistrate

OLB "grevetman" >> Modern Frisian "grietman" :

A grietman (literally: he who greets) is partly a forerunner of the current rural mayor in the province of Friesland, and partly the forerunner of a judge. The area of jurisdiction was the municipality or gemeente. In the judge function, the concept was also found in the Western side of the province of Groningen.

The grietman and judges were responsible for the administration and justice in the Frisian grietenij. The grietmannen were in turn elected or appointed, with the cooperation of the stadholder and the Executive Council. The eleven Frisian cities have mayors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grietman

In the OLB a 'grevetman' functions more as a mayor than as a judge.

But in Old Frisan he's a judge:

gret-man-n 56, gret-mon-n, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Richter, Leiter eines

Bezirksgerichts; ne. judge (M.); Vw.: s. lan-d-es-, merk-ad-; Q.: W, S, Schw; E.: s.

gret (2), man-n; L.: Hh 36a, Rh 784a

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-G.pdf

+++++++++++++++++++++++

EDIT:

Oud en Nieuw Friesland, of aardrijkskundige beschrijving van die provincie - Montanus de Haan Hettema / 1840

http://books.google.nl/books?id=ZIQ6AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=%22grevetman%22&source=bl&ots=7nAhvO2Arb&sig=mz8GKAMvxMFVMb3h3T7H1pBZ0As&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=6D2RT8vcF4qG-wbO2YSGBA&ved=0CFUQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=true

post-18246-0-09641800-1334919880_thumb.j

Translation:

This word is composed of 'Grete' or 'Griete', 'krite', to complain, and 'nie (nige), corner. According to me it means "complaint corner (?), so a place where people can complain. Thus a Grietman, for whom formerly people used the word "riuchter", judge, was a man to whom people would go when they had some complaint. Others called it 'Grevetman', that is 'Gravenman' (Counts' man..?): others 'Krite', surroundings, district; but where do we place the tail of the word, 'nie'?

I even have to think of the Dutch word "grieven" (complaints, grievances) or the French "grave" (serious).

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Where was it then, Atland? The book says the Finns lived there.

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Where was it then, Atland? The book says the Finns lived there.

No, the original text says the FINDA lived there.

My idea is somewhere in Asia, because these FINDA always come from the far east into Europe (Frya territory) and they themselves even say their homeland was near the Himalayas.

There were legends (known in the 19th century) that say there was a great flood caused by the emptying of the Tarim Basin which then temporarily flooded the Pamir Plateau and maybe Kashmir. This was supposed to have happened around 2345 BC.

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No, the original text says the FINDA lived there.

My idea is somewhere in Asia, because these FINDA always come from the far east into Europe (Frya territory) and they themselves even say their homeland was near the Himalayas.

There were legends (known in the 19th century) that say there was a great flood caused by the emptying of the Tarim Basin which then temporarily flooded the Pamir Plateau and maybe Kashmir. This was supposed to have happened around 2345 BC.

Wasn't it supposed to be in the North Sea?

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Wasn't it supposed to be in the North Sea?

No, please flip back a few pages. Doggerland - that's what you mean - was connected to the European mainland, and thus nearby.

Read this again:

In êra tyda hêmadon Findas folk mêst algadur invr hjara moders baerta-lând, mit nôma ald-lând that nw vnder-ne sê lêith; hja wêron thus fêr-of, thêrvmbe nêdon wi âk nên orloch.

Dutch:

In eerdere tijden woonde Finda's volk meest altegader inner haar Moeder's geboorte-land, met de naam Ald-land dat nu onder de zee leit; zij waren dus ver weg, daarom was het niet nodig voor ons om oorlog te maken / (better, but a bit more crooked: "daarom noden wij ook nie-een oorlog" ** ).

English:

In early times Finda's people lived mostly together in her Mother's land of birth, called Ald-land which is now under the sea; thus they were far away and that's why we didn't need to start a war.

("Mother" is here of course 'Finda', one of the three Earth Mothers)

===

Better forget about Sandbach's translation; it's riddled with errors. As a start it's ok, but beware.

Here you can find the passage:

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#ah and it's where it says 12.

==

** http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/noden

.

Edited by Abramelin
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No, the original text says the FINDA lived there.

My idea is somewhere in Asia, because these FINDA always come from the far east into Europe (Frya territory) and they themselves even say their homeland was near the Himalayas.

There were legends (known in the 19th century) that say there was a great flood caused by the emptying of the Tarim Basin which then temporarily flooded the Pamir Plateau and maybe Kashmir. This was supposed to have happened around 2345 BC.

I know I haven't been following the thread, Abe, but I wanted to ask why people presume the Tarim Basin was once a great lake/inland sea (and so, could 'empty')?

There is no evidence of this from the time period mentioned, afaik.

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I know I haven't been following the thread, Abe, but I wanted to ask why people presume the Tarim Basin was once a great lake/inland sea (and so, could 'empty')?

There is no evidence of this from the time period mentioned, afaik.

No, and I agree.

But there was this legend/fantasy, and existing in the 19th century - probably based on the Tarim Basin having the appearence of a huge bath tub, plus Chinese legends - that earthquakes toppled it over and thus created a flood, Noah's Flood.

BTW: The Theosophists- starting with Blavatsky, had the same idea, that the Tarim Basin was once an inland sea.

map_4.jpg

.

Edited by Abramelin
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No, and I agree.

But there was this legend/fantasy, and existing in the 19th century - probably based on the Tarim Basin having the appearence of a huge bath tub, plus Chinese legends - that earthquakes toppled it over and thus created a flood, Noah's Flood.

BTW: The Theosophists- starting with Blavatsky, had the same idea, that the Tarim Basin was once an inland sea.

map_4.jpg

.

Cheers for the info, Abe. :tu:

  • Thanks 1
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Cheers for the info, Abe. :tu:

You're welcome, Leonardo.

A bit more:

In The Secret Doctrine, Shamballa is said to be an 'island' which still exists as an oasis surrounded by the Gobi Desert, and that this is what is left of a vast inland sea which extended over much of Central Asia. Such an island is linked with each of the Root Races that preceded our own, which were compared by Siddhartha to Four Islands "which studded the ocean of birth and death".

http://theosophytrust.org/tlodocs/articlesSymbol.php?d=Shamballa-1181.htm&p=56

Of course, "The Secret Doctrine" was published after the OLB, but Blavatsky based much of her books on known Hindu, Chinese and Russian legends, the Bible, the Vedas, Greek/Egyptian myths and so on, and most of the rest she cooked up all by herself.

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Edited by Abramelin
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No, please flip back a few pages. Doggerland - that's what you mean - was connected to the European mainland, and thus nearby.

Read this again:

In êra tyda hêmadon Findas folk mêst algadur invr hjara moders baerta-lând, mit nôma ald-lând that nw vnder-ne sê lêith; hja wêron thus fêr-of, thêrvmbe nêdon wi âk nên orloch.

Dutch:

In eerdere tijden woonde Finda's volk meest altegader inner haar Moeder's geboorte-land, met de naam Ald-land dat nu onder de zee leit; zij waren dus ver weg, daarom was het niet nodig voor ons om oorlog te maken / (better, but a bit more crooked: "daarom noden wij ook nie-een oorlog" ** ).

English:

In early times Finda's people lived mostly together in her Mother's land of birth, called Ald-land which is now under the sea; thus they were far away and that's why we didn't need to start a war.

("Mother" is here of course 'Finda', one of the three Earth Mothers)

===

Better forget about Sandbach's translation; it's riddled with errors. As a start it's ok, but beware.

Here you can find the passage:

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#ah and it's where it says 12.

==

** http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/noden

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But the Finns come from the north, northern Scandinavia and the nearby part of Russia. Isn't it more likely that Atland was supposed to be in the far north, like Thule or Hyperborea?

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But the Finns come from the north, northern Scandinavia and the nearby part of Russia. Isn't it more likely that Atland was supposed to be in the far north, like Thule or Hyperborea?

What Finns?

It's FINDA.

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What Finns?

It's FINDA.

Well yes but Finda was the mother of the Finns was she not?

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Well yes but Finda was the mother of the Finns was she not?

The Finns show up much later.

Finda was the Earth Mother of the Finda people.

Later on a lot of 'gene mixing' took place, and yes, then the Finns as far descendents of the Finda show up.

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The Finns show up much later.

Finda was the Earth Mother of the Finda people.

Later on a lot of 'gene mixing' took place, and yes, then the Finns as far descendents of the Finda show up.

The Finns are to Finda what the Frisians are to Frya, the direct descendants. Other peoples came from a mixture, that's what I get from the book, anyway.

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The Finns are to Finda what the Frisians are to Frya, the direct descendants. Other peoples came from a mixture, that's what I get from the book, anyway.

Yes, and that's what I said.

But Ald-land was inhabited by the Finda, NOT the Finns as a Sandbach and Steele said.

Then the Finda started wandering and invaded Fryan territory.

++++

EDIT:

Let me put it differently:

The Geertmen were Fryans, right?

But they show up in the Punjab and Kashmir and lived there for 1200+ years, according to the OLB.

Does that mean the Fryans came from the Indian subcontinent? No.

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Edited by Abramelin
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Yes, and that's what I said.

But Ald-land was inhabited by the Finda, NOT the Finns as a Sandbach and Steele said.

Then the Finda started wandering and invaded Fryan territory.

But if the Finns were the pure descendants of Finda it stands to reason that their homeland is where we know they lived, northern Scandinavia and nearby areas.

Also Olas Rudbeck put Atland in Sweden long before the Oera Linda.

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But if the Finns were the pure descendants of Finda it stands to reason that their homeland is where we know they lived, northern Scandinavia and nearby areas.

Also Olas Rudbeck put Atland in Sweden long before the Oera Linda.

See my former edit.

And I know about Rudbeck. No doubt that book has been used too for the OLB.

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See my former edit.

And I know about Rudbeck. No doubt that book has been used too for the OLB.

There's also Atlantis, which was in the Atlantic.

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