Alewyn Posted April 21, 2012 #11301 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) But Otharus is right: there are many mistakes in the current translations of the OLB, and some cause a sentence to have a totally different meaning from what was intended. The overall message may not change, but if you want to investigate the text of the OLB and see how it is or is not being corroborated by facts, then you will have to be very precise. An example is that sentence about 'Skenland' Puzz and I have been discussing just now: Skênland was sunnich bifolkath, ând anda aefter-kâd thaet sunnichste fon al. My Dutch translation: Skenland was zuinig bevolkt, en aan de acherkant het zuinigste van al. My English translation: Skenland was thinly populated, and at its backside (in its hinterland) the thinnest of all. Sandbach's translation: Schoonland was thinly inhabited, particularly the upper part. Lol, you chose a bad example. Sandbach conveys exactly what the original manuscript meant. Yours (English), on the other hand, reads that Skenland was the thinnest populated around its bum! Edit: This is exactly the type of errors you get if you want to do a litteral translation into another language Edited April 21, 2012 by Alewyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted April 21, 2012 #11302 Share Posted April 21, 2012 This dread has gone crazy since one of Tony's multiple personalities joined. So he's still into girls in white uniforms and shorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted April 21, 2012 #11303 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Yours (English), on the other hand, reads that Skenland was the thinnest populated around it’s bum! According to my English dictionary (Van Dale 1984), backside can also mean "achtereinde". To avoid confusion, Abe added something between brackets. "and at its backside (in its hinterland) the thinnest of all" Anyway, I wanted to add something, just for the record. The backside of Jensma's "Het Oera Linda-boek" (2006): (underlining by me) The last four lines read: This scientifically sound edition of the original manuscript contains facsimiles of the text, a transcription and a new translation. In his introduction, Jensma he outlines the history of its genesis. Fortunately, science is still evolving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted April 21, 2012 #11304 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) YOU said:Are Sandbach's translation and your understanding of the Dutch language that bad? From your comment I took it that if my or anyone else’s Dutch is not as good as yours, we are at a disadvantage and therefore not entitled to disagree with Dutch speakers on their interpretation of the OLB. This is what I mean when I say that non-Dutch speakers are in essence discredited and therefore effectively silenced. You took a lot from my comment that was not there. It was just a (slightly skeptical) comment on what you wrote: My understanding of a matriarchal system is that females rule or govern society. This was not the case with the Fryans. It was a fully democratic system where men governed the "Federation" and the females were seen as custodians of their religion, morals and creed. If a culture by tradition and law has a "Mother" (Latin "mater") as their highest authority, how can you claim it's not a matriarchy? Anyway, we could have had a decent discussion about that, but what triggered my skepticism was how you continued: Somebody in the 19th century (Ottema?) made the mistake of calling it a matriarchal system and since then everybody just parroted his views. This tell me that they did not (and still do not) understand this basic concept of the OLB. Ottema did not use the term, you don't know who coined it or 'parroted' it. I used it, but you did not have the guts to address me directly. Instead you wrote "they did not (and still do not) understand this basic concept of the OLB". Btw, I am fully aware that the original manuscript was written in Old Frisian, but you brought up Dutch as a prerequisite here to understanding the OLB. That is because I know that you don't understand Oldfrisian and that you are therefore dependant of Ottema's Dutch and Sandbach's English translations, both from 1876. I find it quite strange that every Dutch (and English) translation of the OLB over the last 140 years has been criticized in this forum by you and Abe. Why is that strange? Should we just accept them as the highest and final authority? We have discovered many errors and suggested wonderful improvements. This forum is great for that. Future translators can and will benefit from all the work we did here. Why don’t you publish your own versions instead of criticizing other’s efforts? This criticizing is not ment to put people down, but to correct mistakes and improve what can be better. That is what science and philosophy should be about. And I do publish, both here and on my blog. Welcome to the age of publishing without money and paper! I intent to publish an oldfashioned book too at some point, but I want it to be scientifically sound and my standards are high. As long as I am making important discoveries, I'll stick to online publishing, and I hope to inspire other investigators (and creative artists) as well. Edited April 21, 2012 by Otharus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted April 21, 2012 #11305 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) From your comment I took it that if my or anyone else’s Dutch is not as good as yours, we are at a disadvantage and therefore not entitled to disagree with Dutch speakers on their interpretation of the OLB. You can disagree when you first do your homework and know what you are talking about. If you were not so arrogant and stubborn, I would not have had to knock you off your pedestal. Things got lost in Sandbach's translation, and as I will show in this post, your adaptation of it made things even more confusing (in this example). You wrote: It would appear that your ability to interpret the OLB is even worse than my command of the Dutch language: A Sea King WAS NOT an Admiral. The OLB is very clear about that. Now look at the original (p.27-28) and some of the existing translations, yours included. Ottema 1872: Sandbach 1876: Jensma 2006 (great use of footnotes!): De Heer 2008 (my favorite!): Raubenheimer 2011: The whole idea that WITKÉNING = Seaking = etymology of Viking? gets lost in the existing English translations. Edited April 21, 2012 by Otharus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted April 21, 2012 #11306 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Why am I not surprised to find Heracles on the Lapland coat-of-arms? That place intrigues me no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted April 21, 2012 #11307 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Okay, I admit it. I have a sadistic side too, but only with masochists that beg for it. LOL It would appear that your ability to interpret the OLB is even worse than my command of the Dutch language ... If you read on you will see that Magistrates (Jurists) were different from Grevetmen (politicians / administrators) Original (p.16): Ottema 1872: Sandbach 1876: Raubenheimer 2011: (BTW, in the original, the last 5 words translate literally: "but only the naked people") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted April 21, 2012 #11308 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Why am I not surprised to find Heracles on the Lapland coat-of-arms? That place intrigues me no end. Yes, it would be pretty cold to walk around there like that, I guess. How do you know it's Heracles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted April 21, 2012 #11309 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Not one single linguist (that I know of) has ever dared to burn fingers on publishing about the OLB. This might be interesting: Vincent van den Bossche: Klankleer en vormleer in Thet Oera Linda Bok; Eindverhandeling voorgedragen tot het verkrijgen van de graad van Licentiaat in de Taal- en Letterkunde ~ Germaanse Talen (Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, 2000) (essay to obtain Belgian academic masters degree, about phonology and morphology in OLB) Tresoar in Leeuwarden does not seem to have it (I checked library online). Does anyone here? Van Gorp, do you live close to Leuven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted April 21, 2012 #11310 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Why am I not surprised to find Heracles on the Lapland coat-of-arms? That place intrigues me no end. Yes, it would be pretty cold to walk around there like that, I guess. How do you know it's Heracles? It's not Hercules/Heracles. Lapland coat of arms. Edited April 21, 2012 by Leonardo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted April 21, 2012 #11311 Share Posted April 21, 2012 It's not Hercules/Heracles. Lapland coat of arms. To Otharus, his knotted club for one thing. Gules - yeah, that sounds nothing like Heracles, try HerCULES... Maybe just going back to their roots at that time - kinda like putting Horagalles on it - oh that sound like Heracles too, to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted April 21, 2012 #11312 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Slightly right translations [032/11] ÉWA SÉIT AK. É-LIK WÉTER-LIK. RJUCHT ÀND SLJUCHT AS WÉTER THAT THRVCH NÉN STORNE-WIND JEFTA AWET OWERS VRSTOREN IS. [Ottema p.47] Ewa (effen) beteekent ook gelijk, vlak als water, recht en slecht gelijk water dat door geen hevige wind of iets anders verstoord is. [Jensma p.135] Êwa betekent ook: effen, gelijk water, recht en slecht als water dat door geen Stormwind of iets anders verstoord is. [sandbach p.47] "Eva" has also another meaning; that is, tranquil, smooth, like water that is not stirred by a breath of wind. [Raubenheimer p.341] "Eva" also means tranquil, smooth like water that has not been disturbed by a strong wind or something else. New translations (closer to original) by me: [Dutch] ÉWA betekent ook: é-lijk, water-lijk (é = water); recht en slecht (= vlak, glad) als water dat door geen stormwind of iets anders verstoord is. [English] ÉWA also means: é-like, water-like (é = water); 'right and slight' (= straight and smooth) as water that was not disturbed by storm-wind or something else. ~ ~ ~ The word SLJUCHT (or SLJOCHT) in the fragment above is known from Old- and Newfrisian, as adjective (flat, smooth), or noun (pavement). Also well known from the expression "rjocht & sljocht" = simple & honest/ straight (eenvoudig & oprecht). The word is related to the Dutch words: slijten = to wear off/ out (be)slechten = to settle, to level slecht (adj.) = bad, ill, wrong, evil sleets = worn slet = slvt In no Frisian or Dutch dictionary I found "slecht" (noun), exept: Old-Westflemmish "slechte" (1285) = flat field ( http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=VMNW&id=ID32571&lemma=slechte ) Westfrisian dictionary (1984) "slechie" = flattened ('geslechte') part of the road, sidewalk, footway, pavement It appears twice in the OLB: [094/21] THÁ ADELA TO HIRA HUS UT VPPET SLECHT KÉM FOL EN BLOMRÉIN DEL VPPIRA HOLE [O+S p.131] Toen Adela uit haar huis op de straat kwam viel een bloemregen op haar hoofd When Adele came out of her house [on the street], a shower of flowers fell on her head [105/04] A SADENERA WISE SEND WI AN HÚSA KÉMEN MITH STOPPENBÀNKUM EN SLECHT ÀND WARANDA LINDA WITH THA SVNNE-SRÉLUM [O+S p.145] Op zoodanige wijze zijn wij aan huizen gekomen met stoepbanken, eene straat, en eene beschuttende linde tegen de zonnestralen This is the way in which we became possessed of houses and porches, a street, and lime-trees to protect us from the rays of the sun It is remarkable that Jensma (2006), probably by mistake, made this ugly and incorrect translation: "Op zo'n wijze zijn wij aan huizen gekomen met stoepbanken en stoep en beschuttende linden tegen de zonnestralen." Edited April 21, 2012 by Otharus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted April 21, 2012 #11313 Share Posted April 21, 2012 This dread has gone crazy since one of Tony's multiple personalities joined. So he's still into girls in white uniforms and shorts. LOL, at least s/he got a decent education, if I must believe the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted April 21, 2012 #11314 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Yes, it would be pretty cold to walk around there like that, I guess. How do you know it's Heracles? Damn, I remember Puzz posted something about some Finnish god/hero with a name very similar to "Heracles". One holding a club in his hands. Or maybe I mixed things up again. ++++++ EDIT: OK, I should have read all the responses after my own last post before answering: To Otharus, his knotted club for one thing. Gules - yeah, that sounds nothing like Heracles, try HerCULES... Maybe just going back to their roots at that time - kinda like putting Horagalles on it - oh that sound like Heracles too, to me. Edited April 21, 2012 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted April 21, 2012 #11315 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Gules - yeah, that sounds nothing like Heracles, try HerCULES... Horagalles - sounds like Heracles A relation between Heracles, Hercules and Horagalles makes sense to me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alewyn Posted April 21, 2012 #11316 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) If a culture by tradition and law has a "Mother" (Latin "mater") as their highest authority, how can you claim it's not a matriarchy? Anyway, we could have had a decent discussion about that, but what triggered my skepticism was how you continued: Ottema did not use the term, you don't know who coined it or 'parroted' it. I used it, but you did not have the guts to address me directly. Instead you wrote "they did not (and still do not) understand this basic concept of the OLB". Don’t flatter yourself. It does not take guts to address you directly. You took the word “parroted” personally and then became abusive. I certainly did not expect that from you. You are not the first to have used the term “matriarchal system” or “matriarchy”. This is a very common perception of the OLB. Even Wikipedia says: “Themes running through the Oera Linda Book include catastrophism, nationalism, matriarchy, and mythology. The text alleges that Europe and other lands were, for most of their history, ruled by a succession of folk-mothers presiding over a hierarchical order of celibate priestesses dedicated to the goddess Frya, daughter of the supreme god Wr-alda and Irtha, the earth mother.” Would you say that Britain or the Netherlands are “matriarchies” because they have queens? You must agree that calling them such would create a totally wrong perception - exactly what you and others are doing to the OLB. The above quote from Wiki sums up the general (and your) perception that the Fryans were ruled or governed by females. My point is that this is simply incorrect. Granted, the head of state was a female who had the power of veto and who also presided over the appeal court. Her other main functions were to guard over their morals and to maintain the peace. Their country, however, was governed by a democratically elected, male dominated general assembly who had the power to dispose of the Folk Mother or even to sentence her to death in cases of gross misconduct. Chapter 1 of the Book of Adela’s followers: “To withstand this disaster a general assembly was called of all those MEN who were in good standing with the matrons (famna).” “Therefore I advise you, you should choose upright MEN who will fairly divide the labour and the fruits, so that no-one shall be exempt from work or from the duty of defence.” (This is the first mention of the country having been governed for more than 30 years without a Folk Mother and even then they failed to elect a new head of state. So, who governed the country? Later we read about the election of Gosa Makonda after 282 years without a Folk Mother)) Chapter 6 – Laws for the Governance of Burghs All the Mother’s advisors or councillors were men: “To the Mother and every Burgh Matron there will be allocated twenty-one burghers; seven elder wise men, seven elder soldiers and seven elder mariners.” Chapter 7 A man was regarded as the head of his household: “If a man has taken a wife, HE must be given a house and yard.” Chapter 8 Some stipulations of how men obtained voting rights. Nothing is said anywhere about women voting or their democratic rights. “4. After three years as a warrior, he becomes a burgher and may then partake in the election of his headman (officer). 5. After seven years as a voter, he may partake in the election of a commander or king and may be elected himself.” The Folk Mother and Burgh “Famnas” were the only women voted in. In the case of the Folk Mother, her appointment was for life and she could elect her successor. So not even every Folk Mother was democratically elected. Chapter 9 - The rights of Mothers and Kings. Herewith just an extract. Please read the whole chapter again. “1. If war breaks out, the Mother sends her messengers to the King; the King sends messengers to the Counts to defend the country. 2. The Counts call all the citizens together and decide how many men shall be sent. 3. All the resolutions must immediately be sent to the Mother by messengers and witnesses.” As stated before, the Mother had the power of Veto but it seems fairly certain that she had to listen to the advise of her MALE councillors: “4. The Mother lets all resolutions be gathered and gives an average number, that is, the middle number of all resolutions together, which the people as well as the King should be satisfied with for the time being.” I have also stated previously that one of the Folk Mother and the Burgh Matrons’ primary functions was to guard over the morals of the nation: “5. If the armed forces are on campaign, the King only have to consult with his headmen (officers), though there must always be three burghers without voice (observers) from the Mother sitting in front. These burghers must send daily messengers to the Mother so that she would know if anything is done contrary to the counsels of Frya. [/u]” Chapter 11 Minno’s Writings Rules made by Minno ( a male). Chapter 14 From Minno’s writings: (Hellenia speaking) “That is also our desire, and therefore our people choose their LEADERS, COUNTS, COUNCILLORS, CHIEFS, AND MASTERS FROM THE WISEST OF THE GOOD MEN, in order that every man shall do his best to become wise and good.” Chapter 24 – Tunis and Inka “With all this treasure Tunis sailed into the Flymar. THE COUNT from West Flyland was so impressed with all these goods that HE arranged that Tunis be allowed to have a warehouse at the mouth of the Flymar.” Sometimes the Mother’s advice was simply ignored: “The Mother advised that they should sell anything except iron weapons but nobody paid attention to her.” (ca 2000 BC) Chapter 31 – Murder of Frana “But the Denemarkar had no ears, they never understood that they could lose their morals and therefore they paid no attention to her.” Note the following deliberation by the general council (male); The mother’s advice was sought; not her ruling: “In the northernmost corner of the Middle Sea there lies an island at the coast. They now came and asked to buy it. A general council meeting was called. The mother’s advice was sought, …” In my book I spoke about a Fryan “Federation” of states (Possibly not much more than City States as per the later Greek Model). Each was ruled by a Count but they still fell under the moral guidance of the Folk Mother. It is also very telling that she is often referred to as the “Honorary” Mother in the OLB. The Writings of Adelbrost and Appolonia, Chapter 1 (In trying to elect a new Folk Mother after the Murder of Frana some 30 years before) “Each state was in favour of its own matron and nobody would yield. Therefore none was chosen, and the realm became disordered.” And “Every RULER imagined that HE did enough if HE looked after HIS own state, and no one would cooperate with the others.” “With the Burgh Matrons it was even worse. Everyone relied on her own wisdom, and whenever the Counts did anything without her, she would create distrust between them and their people.” So you see, the counts could and did rule without the Burgh Matrons (Famna, or whatever you want to call them) by simply ignoring them. I can go on and on but I am certain that you get my drift: The Mother and Matrons were, to a large extent, figure heads with more ceremonial functions than executive powers. Only the Mother had the power of Veto and then mostly on matters concerning morals and religion – almost like a theocracy. Edited April 21, 2012 by Alewyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted April 21, 2012 #11317 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) A relation between Heracles, Hercules and Horagalles makes sense to me too. Ir may have been the Swedes who told the Finns about Heracles. And they - the Swedes - may have got it from the Romans. How many times do you - as the Dutch guy you are - use the words 'cool' and 'fk'? OK, maybe not you, but ask any Dutch youngster. It took less then a decade to implant these words here. Things that sound 'cool' are adopted fast. Hercules, a (Roman/Greek) hero (like 'our' Tarzan), may have been adopted fast too. . Edited April 21, 2012 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted April 21, 2012 #11318 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) You have a reply to my post to you too, Alewyn? I guess you conveniently forgot about that one. === You are are a religious guy, I know, and that means you are eager to gobble up scheise that satisfies you dreams. . Edited April 21, 2012 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted April 21, 2012 #11319 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Would you say that Britain or the Netherlands are “matriarchies” because they have queens That is a completely different story. Their function is inherited, they are women by chance. In OLB it was tradition and law that their 'first' was a lady. Anyway it is clear that compared to the Abrahamic tradition that followed, women had a much more important role and were much more respected. Were in the Old Testament the first man (human) was a male, in OLB humanity started with females. And what about this: The Frya's, Kelt's and Gertmen were even named after their 'mother'. But we seem to have different notions of what matriarchy is exactly. Another important thing you should know is that where translations are hij/he and man/men, in the original the word is often neutral, so man should be mens/human, and he = he/she. I will answer in more detail later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted April 21, 2012 #11320 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Alewyn, At least I am glad to know that one of your 'buddies' ( heh, up to recently, that is) doesn't agree with you or your crazy suspicions. I do not agree with Knul either on many things (and we - he and I - both don't believe in the OLB), and now you ask Otharus to post a new translation of the OLB, if he has 'any balls'? You were too eager to gobble up what you read online (Steele's version), and then you wrote a book about the OLB. Man, I respect Otharus and Knul much more than I will ever respect you. I do not like paranoid people that much. And thank you for sending your book to me for free. But nobody will be able to 'buy' me. How's that for a change, eh? . Edited April 21, 2012 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted April 21, 2012 #11321 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Chapter 1 of the Book of Adela’s followers: You added that chapter numbering. What I miss in your book is a reference to the original page numbers and/or the page numbers from Ottema or Sandbach (fortunately they used same numbering). Before I can answer to your quoted fragments, I have to check them with the original manuscript. This will take some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted April 21, 2012 #11322 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) You are not the first to have used the term “matriarchal system” or “matriarchy”. This is a very common perception of the OLB. Even Wikipedia says: ... I know I'm not the first and you don't know who was. Who is "Wikipedia"? You said "everybody" parroted someone unknown in the 19th century, but your anonymous source doesn't say who... Edited April 21, 2012 by Otharus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted April 21, 2012 #11323 Share Posted April 21, 2012 You took the word “parroted” personally and then became abusive. I certainly did not expect that from you. Yes, I can be oversensitive and when I am, I sometimes overreact. It's part of a sindream that I am becoming more conscious of, since recently. Apologies to you and the treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted April 21, 2012 #11324 Share Posted April 21, 2012 There is only ONE person here with a socalled 'agenda', and that is no one else but dear Alewyn. He craves to be taken seriously, and he will try to nail anyone who doubts his words/book. Well, I lost my interest in his book about the OLB long ago, but the OLB still has my attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alewyn Posted April 21, 2012 #11325 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Alewyn, At least I am glad to know that one of your 'buddies' ( heh, up to recently, that is) doesn't agree with you or your crazy suspicions. I do not agree with Knul either on many things (and we - he and I - both don't believe in the OLB), and now you ask Otharus to post a new translation of the OLB, if he has 'any balls'? You were too eager to gobble up what you read online (Steele's version), and then you wrote a book about the OLB. Man, I respect Otharus and Knul much more than I will ever respect you. I do not like paranoid people that much. And thank you for sending your book to me for free. But nobody will be able to 'buy' me. How's that for a change, eh? This is not the first time that you are claiming that I tried to bribe you with my book. For the benefit of those readers who may be interested, herewith some of the private messages between Abramelin and me around the time I sent him a copy of my book. He did me a favour by sending me Goffe Jensma’s contact details (and after his continuous claims of poverty.) Please note his solemn pledges of silence which I never requested or expected from him. Let each decide for himself whose integrity should be questioned here. Sent 28 June 2010 - 10:00 PM Hallo Alewyn, I told you in my last post on the OLB thread that I would send you a pm about how to contact Goffe Jensma . This guy studied the OLB for at least 10 years, and made a new (third) translation based on the original OLB documents. Here are some addresses: gjensma@fa.knaw.nl g.t.jensma@rug.nl (this one I would use) You can also give him a call: (+31) (0)50 363 8836 http://www.rug.nl/st....t.jensma/index Or contact him on linkedin.com : http://www.linkedin....nsma/16/733/b96 I hope you try this for I would be very interested into what he has to say to you. Rob. Sent 29 June 2010 - 09:29 PM Hi Rob, I have reconsidered my views and decided to follow your advice by sending an e-mail to Goffe Jensma. I have offered him a complimentary copy of my book. We shall now just have to wait and see. Regards, Alewyn Sent 23 July 2010 - 08:52 PM Hi Rob, I still peek into the debate from time to time. I know this is like throwing myself into the wolfs' pen, but if you like, I will send you a complementary copy of my book via Amazon.com. Please let me have your postal address. Regards, Alewyn Sent 23 July 2010 - 09:31 PM Hi Alewyn, I think you (and many other for that matter) have a completely wrong idea of me. Let me say this: when someone is sort of fierce while discussing some topic, that doesn't necessarily mean that person is 'out to get you' or something. But it does mean that person is very interested, to say the least. Etc., etc. But now this: do I understand you correctly, and do you want to send me your book for free?? I guess you read that my financial situation is not something to be happy about (this is it: lots of debts, a foreign women with 2 kids - not mine - needing money, and then I am unemployed too...there are times I think I go buy a tent, some walking shoes, a bag of vitamine pills, and leave for the sunset, not to be seen ever again). Assuming you meant the book is for free (and I will of course not tell anyone), I will give you my postal address: (Deleted) Regards, Rob. Sent 24 July 2010 - 03:05 PM Hi Alewyn, First I'd like to thank you for ordering the book, although the 24 dollars is - for me - quite much, hah. But I will deal with it (I ask my brother who earns more per month than I do in half a year..) Etc., etc. Thanks again for odering your book for me (when I get it, and no doubt will post something about it, I will tell them my brother bought it for me. I don't want people to think you hand out your book for free). See you around, Rob. Sent 30 August 2010 - 06:54 PM I finally got your book, Alewyn!! It must have been in my mailbox on Saturday or even Friday, but I was sick (toothache, hurting like hell, and I didn't go outside for a couple of days). Maybe I got it wrong, but am I not supposed to pay for the delivery costs?? Anyway, thanks a lot. I will start reading it if my toothache permits me, lol. And I will get these people, Jim and Puzz on track again. They appear to me as addicts to their own pet topics, and not very willing to talk about what the thread was all about from the start: your book. It annoys me no end, believe me. Regards, Rob. Sent 31 August 2010 - 04:29 AM Rob, l am relieved that your book finally arrived. I was starting to think that you wouldn't believe I actually sent the book. I have paid for the book and the postage so, as far as I know, you are not supposed to pay for anything. Did you? Once you have read the book, you and I can get into a serious debate. All I ask is that you read the book with an open mind and from cover to cover. You see, you cannot get the picture by only reading parts of it. etc., etc. Regards, Alewyn Sent 31 August 2010 - 04:10 PM No Alewijn, I didn't have to pay anything. So thanks again, I appreciate that a lot. I also didn't tell it on the forum because some might think if they play it right, they can also get a free copy. I know, I told about my financial situation on the forum, but I never even expected you to send me a copy for free, nor was I thinking of that. I am not a parasite. Etc., etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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