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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


Riaan
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LOl, it's not Okki, it's Okke.

In Dutch it reads: "Okke, mijn zoon".

==

But I'll point out it is Old Frisian I could read better, not modern, which is overlayed with Dutch words.

This is supposed to be old Frisian... It's not, of course, and if it's been copied from 2193 BC, then they sure did speak quite modern Frisian 4000 uears ago.

,

I want to add this:

The Frisians (not according to the OLB, but according to the accepted history) occupied a territory from the coast of Belgium up to the west coast of Denmark (Jutland).

After them came the Franks, and the Saxons, and they mingled with the Frisians, and all that humping resulted in a people we now know as the Dutch.

Present day Frisian is close to Dutch, and very similar to the language used in the OLB.

I will keep repeating: the OLB is said to be an ancient manuscript copied over and ober again from 2193 BC (much like the Jewish scribes did with the Tora).

They even used a original script no one had ever seen before the OLB got published, and no one ever found again now, anywhere.

OK, yeah, some would say that that script was the original script that was the original Phoenician script that in its turn fathered many later scripts (like Latin and Greek).

I will buy it, if only they can show me some 4000 years old OTHER examples of the OLB script.

They can't.

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Hi Alewyn,

Did Jensma already respond to your email?

I am really curious to know what he has to tell you.

And I hope you asked him for an English translation of his book about the OLB. One would expect that a still very popular topic like the OLB would force someone to also publish in English, assuming he wants to earn a buck or two for his book.

Hi Abe,

Yes. I offered him a complimentary copy of my book which he accepted. The book is on order from the USA but it is still too early for him to have received it.

I have not asked him about his book but I did mention that I believe my book is in direct opposition to his views.

We shall have to wait and see.

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Hi Abe,

Yes. I offered him a complimentary copy of my book which he accepted. The book is on order from the USA but it is still too early for him to have received it.

I have not asked him about his book but I did mention that I believe my book is in direct opposition to his views.

We shall have to wait and see.

OK. If you like, I will send him an email too, just to press him a bit.

Of course my email will be from someone who is skeptical of the OLB (and Dutch), and maybe he will answer me a bit quicker...

____________

Alewyn, I think you won't mind if I post something about your person. You (or someone else) posted it on the internet:

"Alewyn J Raubenheimer is a retired General Manager and Chief Mine Design Engineer from a large platinum mining company. He lives in Johannesburg, South Africa with his wife, Beulah. They have three children, a son-in-law, a daughter-in-law and twin grandsons. He is a member of the South African Archaeological Society.

His engineering background coupled with more than thirty years of experience in the geo-sciences and environmental assessments make him well qualified to write on the subject.

Subsequent to his retirement, he pursued his passion and interest in ancient civilizations and the causes of their demise from a natural sciences viewpoint."

http://impactsurvivors.com/author.html

---

So now I want to know how you can be so convinced about the tidal/tsunami effect of the erupting Thera volcano on the North Sea.

Subsequent to his retirement, he pursued his passion and interest in ancient civilizations and the causes of their demise from a natural sciences viewpoint.

From what I get from your words, you mainly use your version of linguistics and ancient Greek hisory.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Abramelin

And you also forgot about the FACT that the Frisians concocted many fabulations and fantasies about their history; it was something of a national sport.

TheSearcher

And Abe is very correct about one thing, even nowadays, the Frisians are known for being able to spin quite a good yarn ;-), is is kind of their national sport indeed.

Abramelin

From what I get from your words, you mainly use your version of linguistics and ancient Greek hisory.

So, you reckon the OLB is a fake, the Frisians are a bunch of lyers and I don't have the credentials to write about the subject. If you cannot convince, then discredit. This is the type of tactics we used when we were 8 year olds.

Perhaps you won't mind to share your impeccable credentials with us.

As for your harping on about Thera: Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

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Abramelin

And you also forgot about the FACT that the Frisians concocted many fabulations and fantasies about their history; it was something of a national sport.

TheSearcher

And Abe is very correct about one thing, even nowadays, the Frisians are known for being able to spin quite a good yarn ;-), is is kind of their national sport indeed.

Abramelin

From what I get from your words, you mainly use your version of linguistics and ancient Greek hisory.

So, you reckon the OLB is a fake, the Frisians are a bunch of lyers and I don't have the credentials to write about the subject. If you cannot convince, then discredit. This is the type of tactics we used when we were 8 year olds.

Perhaps you won't mind to share your impeccable credentials with us.

As for your harping on about Thera: Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

That was meant to be "Liars"

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Some thoughts on your reference to Cecrops:

In ca 1630-1627 BC a civil war broke out around the Schelde. One of the causes was to do with the manufacturing of paper from pumpkin leafs instead of from flax. Jon and Minerva fled with a consignment of paper on board that was bound for the "export marked".(I would guess that they did not have enough time to unload the paper)

Later, after Cecrops took over in Athens, the OLB states that he allowed them to "live according to our own law books". When Cecrops died, the local priests started "tearing up"

their charters. You don't "tear up" clay tablets and parchments. All their written communication was done on paper and that is why we do not find any evidence thereof today. The same happened on Crete, Avaris (Hyksos), the Indus Valley (Harrapans), etc. All of them were advanced civilizations with apparently no written legacy. The OLB is full of references to paper.

Using a disputable source (the OLB) as evidence the disputable source is 'true' is circular reasoning, Alewyn.

The references to 'paper' in the OLB simply suggest the author(s) of that manuscript wrote that paper was there. It is not 'proof' of paper existing in any culture of the late 3rd/early 2nd millenium BCE.

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LOl, it's not Okki, it's Okke.

In Dutch it reads: "Okke, mijn zoon".

==

But I'll point out it is Old Frisian I could read better, not modern, which is overlayed with Dutch words.

This is supposed to be old Frisian... It's not, of course, and if it's been copied from 2193 BC, then they sure did speak quite modern Frisian 4000 uears ago.

,

OK, Okke, but I was reading it in English and it would probably be Okki here, but I guess since it is a name it should stay Okke. i is the e sound not e.

When I got to Konered I would probably write Konrad. too.

My point is really, the writing probably shouldn't be Old Frisian at all. If written prior to the 6th century AD it would not be Old Frisian at all.

I note some of the explanation says Stand for printing and Run for Cursive. But how about this, in Australia we call cursive writing RUNNING WRITING.

In the United Kingdom, the phrase "joined up writing" or "joint writing" is far more commonly used, while the term "running writing" or "handwriting" is most commonly used in Australia.

Running writing, see, that is what the cursive used is and is being called and my own country Australia uses this same denoting for the cursive hand.

I can running write and many of the letters I use are the same as the letters I see in the Run lines. I wonder if the English who settled Australia were actually descendants of these Frisians.

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OK, Okke, but I was reading it in English and it would probably be Okki here, but I guess since it is a name it should stay Okke. i is the e sound not e.

When I got to Konered I would probably write Konrad. too.

My point is really, the writing probably shouldn't be Old Frisian at all. If written prior to the 6th century AD it would not be Old Frisian at all.

I note some of the explanation says Stand for printing and Run for Cursive. But how about this, in Australia we call cursive writing RUNNING WRITING.

In the United Kingdom, the phrase "joined up writing" or "joint writing" is far more commonly used, while the term "running writing" or "handwriting" is most commonly used in Australia.

Running writing, see, that is what the cursive used is and is being called and my own country Australia uses this same denoting for the cursive hand.

I can running write and many of the letters I use are the same as the letters I see in the Run lines. I wonder if the English who settled Australia were actually descendants of these Frisians.

Come on Puzz, these 19th century guys knew the English language, they knew about Australia (many Dutch emigrated to Australia), they knew that cursive writing is sometimes called 'running writing'.. And they wanted to suggest that the word 'running' has a connection with 'runes' but are not Germanic runes.

The running OLB script of course has many letters the same as in our cursive Latin script... now why would that be, eh?

No, linguistics will not be a way to prove the authenticity of the OLB.

==========================================

Alewyn, from your last posts I see that you seem to confuse a couple of posters here, lol. I am not Searcher, Searcher is not Puzzler, and so on.

But ok, maybe you were in a hurry because you have problems with your internet connection.

==

Alewyn, you say that I (and that's not Searcher) keeps 'harping on' about Thera.

Well, then prove to me that the eruption of Thera caused 'wild waves' in the North Sea, waves wild and high enough to make ships sink there.

All you say is that you think it is possible, and all I say is that I think it's impossible.

I use the Krakatoa eruption as an example of one of the must destructive volcanic eruptions in human history (aside from the Toba eruption, 75000 years ago).

If the Krakatoa eruption was anything similar to the Thera eruption, then - if you are right - we should have accounts of floodings and wild seas in Japan from around that time.

I know the Thera eruption was a of a larger magnitude than the Krakatoa eruption, but I am just having problems imagining how the Thera eruption could have caused those wild seas in the North Sea. It could not have been by the resulting tsunami, maybe only by the resulting extremely heavy earthquakes. But if that's the case, then we should see traces of it in the present mountains surrounding the North Sea (Scotland, Scandinavia).

I found a volcanic eruption of a higher magnitude than Thera, and also from the 19th century: Mt. Tambora. I have searched for it's effect on sea waves in the Philippines and Japan, but nada.

http://www.eh-resources.org/volcanoes.html

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Got the gist now, the invasion of Britain by the Anglo-Saxons, which the Frisians were part of bought their language to England, the Anglo-Saxon language so the Frisians spoke Anglo-Saxon before they spoke Old Frisian. This is where I think the syntax problems might occur by looking at the writings as being Dutch.

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Got the gist now, the invasion of Britain by the Anglo-Saxons, which the Frisians were part of bought their language to England, the Anglo-Saxon language so the Frisians spoke Anglo-Saxon before they spoke Old Frisian. This is where I think the syntax problems might occur by looking at the writings as being Dutch.

If you have set your mind on giving the ancient Frisian language a name other than 'Frisian', you might want to consider "Inguaeonish"...

http://web.quipo.it/minola/frysk/history_of_the_frisian_people.htm

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The running OLB script of course has many letters the same as in our cursive Latin script... now why would that be, eh?

.

I'm thinking you have a different answer but I say because they are the same people as the book explains.

Your answer is probably because they were taken over by the Romans but maybe think where the Roman writing came from too, from Etruscan and Greek, which came from Phoenician and if the book is correct, the Phoenicians could be the Friesians who settled at Tyre, (as the book says) and so the alphabet of the Phoenicians could be based in the original Frisian one, but spoken in Semitic in the Levant. Then it passed into Greece and into Italy and there you have a round circle of the written language looking like Latin but actually being an earlier form.

I would not be surprised if it can be found amongst the Linear A or B writing too.

As for Thera, I dunno...

I'd be much more likely to think it was a volcanic eruption in Iceland or a natural washing in of high sea from some sort of mid Atlantic earthquake.

I do however think it could be, if true, a version of the Phaethon event since according to the Greeks the Celtic people retained the oldest and best knowledge of it. That is not to say I think the Phaethon event was a meteor or such, I have not decided exactly what the Phaethon event was yet but it was described by the Pythagoreans as having left the Milky Way in it's path as it fell.

Isn't Thera too late to have caused it anyway or did I miss something.

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If you have set your mind on giving the ancient Frisian language a name other than 'Frisian', you might want to consider "Inguaeonish"...

http://web.quipo.it/minola/frysk/history_of_the_frisian_people.htm

Cool article Abe, thanks. Only part way through yet. I will read on.

Heres the thing, they did not speak any sort of Frisian language before 6-7th century BC so any language written prior to this time frame as it is said it is, will not even be Old Frisian.

That is what I'm on about, this is suppose to be in the time before they spoke Frisian. The manuscript may not be in Old Frisian at all or any kind of Frisian, is it? Is this how Frisians write, did they ever write like this? If it is an obscure writing how is it Frisian? Is Frisian runic?

Istuaeones is much more obscure, and I could find no definitive references. However, Istuan is a common first name in Hungary. Hungary has considerable connection with Norse and Germanic migrations. The Magyar no doubt.

I gotta say the word Inguaeonish sounds like the word English to me. In gwarn ish engarlish english.

Edited by The Puzzler
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I'm thinking you have a different answer but I say because they are the same people as the book explains.

Your answer is probably because they were taken over by the Romans but maybe think where the Roman writing came from too, from Etruscan and Greek, which came from Phoenician and if the book is correct, the Phoenicians could be the Friesians who settled at Tyre, (as the book says) and so the alphabet of the Phoenicians could be based in the original Frisian one, but spoken in Semitic in the Levant. Then it passed into Greece and into Italy and there you have a round circle of the written language looking like Latin but actually being an earlier form.

I would not be surprised if it can be found amongst the Linear A or B writing too.

As for Thera, I dunno...

I'd be much more likely to think it was a volcanic eruption in Iceland or a natural washing in of high sea from some sort of mid Atlantic earthquake.

I do however think it could be, if true, a version of the Phaethon event since according to the Greeks the Celtic people retained the oldest and best knowledge of it. That is not to say I think the Phaethon event was a meteor or such, I have not decided exactly what the Phaethon event was yet but it was described by the Pythagoreans as having left the Milky Way in it's path as it fell.

Isn't Thera too late to have caused it anyway or did I miss something.

"Your answer is probably because they were taken over by the Romans"

No, my answer is that some smart guys invented the OLB script during the 19th century, based on normal Latin script with a twist.

==

Yes, I already told Alewyn that an Icelandic volcano would be a better candidate.

=

Btw, check the Estonian "Kaali" impact crater, in connection with your Phaeton myth. I think the myths surrounding that impact is what set Spanuth on the trail of the Phaeton myth.

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3_oeralindarobstolte3.jpg

So, when I look at it, the word BREAD says BREAD basically in this writing. The B is a B, the R is an R, the E is an E, the A appears more like an upside down V but only missing the little middle line, and the D is a D. So if the word Bread is the same as English word Bread in it, wouldn't that imply the written language in the book is also more English than anything else?

Edited by The Puzzler
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3_oeralindarobstolte3.jpg

So, when I look at it, the word BREAD says BREAD basically in this writing. The B is a B, the R is an R, the E is an E, the A appears more like an upside down V but only missing the little middle line, and the D is a D. So if the word Bread is the same as English word Bread in it, wouldn't that imply the written language in the book is also more English than anything else?

No, it only implies certain words are the same as certain English words, like certain words are the same as German words, Dutch words and French words. But even though English and Frisian are close languages, that doesn't mean you will be able to read it easily. The Frisian linguists say that the language used in the OLB is some sort of Frisian with lots of re-shaped words borrowed from modern English, French and German.

I would say, read the literal translation out loud and then tell me if it sounds English. But that would be near impossible; I am thinking about how you pronounced "Okke". The -e- in Okke is not pronounced like -ea- in tea ("Okki"), but like -u- in bus, but short and silent. No Frisian pronounces it like "Okki" like you did.

I have a better example for you: one rather famous word in the OLB is "BEDRVM", meaning, "bedroom"... I found that quite hilarious.

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No, it only implies certain words are the same as certain English words, like certain words are the same as German words, Dutch words and French words. But even though English and Frisian are close languages, that doesn't mean you will be able to read it easily. The Frisian linguists say that the language used in the OLB is some sort of Frisian with lots of re-shaped words borrowed from modern English, French and German.

I would say, read the literal translation out loud and then tell me if it sounds English. But that would be near impossible; I am thinking about how you pronounced "Okke". The -e- in Okke is not pronounced like -ea- in tea ("Okki"), but like -u- in bus, but short and silent. No Frisian pronounces it like "Okki" like you did.

I have a better example for you: one rather famous word in the OLB is "BEDRVM", meaning, "bedroom"... I found that quite hilarious.

I'm going with the first translator:

Translator Ottema was convinced of the authenticity of the manuscript. According to him it was an ancient chronicle, written in an unknown writing of runes, a language that may be purer than the oldest known Fries.

Exactly what I think, it is a purer language than the oldest known Fries.

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3_oeralindarobstolte3.jpg

So, when I look at it, the word BREAD says BREAD basically in this writing. The B is a B, the R is an R, the E is an E, the A appears more like an upside down V but only missing the little middle line, and the D is a D. So if the word Bread is the same as English word Bread in it, wouldn't that imply the written language in the book is also more English than anything else?

Puzzler, I really think you may be onto something here. Even DNA Y-Haplogroup R1b seems to be less diluted on the British Isles (Especially towards the North) than around the Netherlands. My analysis of DNA migrations is that R1b originated around the North Sea. Even my reconstruction of history from the OLB would seem to support your views. Keep at it.

A note to Abe: Never underestimate a woman's insight and intuition.

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Puzzler, I really think you may be onto something here. Even DNA Y-Haplogroup R1b seems to be less diluted on the British Isles (Especially towards the North) than around the Netherlands. My analysis of DNA migrations is that R1b originated around the North Sea. Even my reconstruction of history from the OLB would seem to support your views. Keep at it.

A note to Abe: Never underestimate a woman's insight and intuition.

Your analysis of DNA migrations around the North Sea?

You mean Stephen Oppenheimer's analysis, right?

Anyway, I have used Oppenheimer's and other genetisists' work to 'prove' the Frisians came from Doggerland (or maybe better, Dogger Island), or what now is the bottom of the North Sea.

This has nothing to do with woman's insight and intuition, this about completely forgetting what's been said earlier, in an other thread, and then repeat it here as a new insight.

Btw, not every geneticist will agree with that point of view; read the Wiki page about the "Northwestblock".

.

Edited by Abramelin
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I'm going with the first translator:

Translator Ottema was convinced of the authenticity of the manuscript. According to him it was an ancient chronicle, written in an unknown writing of runes, a language that may be purer than the oldest known Fries.

Exactly what I think, it is a purer language than the oldest known Fries.

OK, that's your choice.

I go with the majority of the linguists, despite the fact that I would have loved it if the OLB was as real and as ancient as many people love to believe it is.

Here's part of the OLB, read aloud:

Edited by Abramelin
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Your analysis of DNA migrations around the North Sea?

You mean Stephen Oppenheimer's analysis, right?

Anyway, I have used Oppenheimer's and other genetisists' work to 'prove' the Frisians came from Doggerland (or maybe better, Dogger Island), or what now is the bottom of the North Sea.

This has nothing to do with woman's insight and intuition, this about completely forgetting what's been said earlier, in an other thread, and then repeat it here as a new insight.

Btw, not every geneticist will agree with that point of view; read the Wiki page about the "Northwestblock".

.

No. I mean exactly what I said. MY ANALYSIS. Oppenheimer's is a very small part of it and my work does not only revolve around the North sea. You don't even have the slightest clue what my work is about. You truly amaze me.

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No. I mean exactly what I said. MY ANALYSIS. Oppenheimer's is a very small part of it and my work does not only revolve around the North sea. You don't even have the slightest clue what my work is about. You truly amaze me.

So I amaze you because you talk a lot about the Oera Linda Book, thus giving me the idea that's the main topic of your book.

Yeah, that's really amazing....

OK, if you don't do it, I will: here's something about your book:

It happened on the night of Wednesday, 21 October 2193 BC. The Burckle asteroid, one of many, struck the Indian Ocean 1500 kilometers south-east of Madagascar with the force of several million nuclear warheads. Planet earth shuddered and tilted on her axis. Tectonic plates shook and rocked violently on the planet’s built-in shock absorber - the underlying magma. Around the globe volcanoes erupted. Tsunamis from the impact and from thousands of earthquakes sped around the earth in a frenzy of destruction as earth adjusted to her new rotation axis. Trillions of tons of sea water and superheated steam were flung into the stratosphere. The wall of water from the impact towered hundreds of meters above the ocean as it raced towards land.

On the East Coast of China it was already mid-morning and in India dawn was breaking. From Europe to the Middle East people were blissfully asleep. First came the violent tremors followed by the air blast and the unimaginable mountains of water. Cities, towns and forests were crushed and swept away in an instant. Obliterated. Millions died. In the darkness they could not see it coming. They never knew what hit them.

In China the Hongsan Culture came to an end. In Egypt the Old Kingdom, the builders of the great pyramids, was destroyed. The Indus Valley Civilization in Pakistan and India was wiped out and in the Middle East the Empire of Akkad ceased to exist. Man came to the brink of extinction. All that remained were the myths, folklore and legends. More than four thousand years later archaeologists would discover their relics in the sand.

On wrangle Island in the Arctic Ocean the last Mammoths died out and in Europe the most advanced civilization on the face of the earth seemingly disappeared without a trace. Seemingly…

http://impactsurvivors.com/

"Survivors of the Great Tsunami" is a factual account of the uncovering of the most advanced civilization in Early Antiquity. This West European empire from more than 4000 years ago is unknown to, or has been denied by historians to this day.

The book examines an ancient manuscript discovered in the Netherlands in 1867. The manuscript was subsequently declared a fraud by Dutch linguists and parroted by historians. By now comparing this manuscript with numerous authors from antiquity, as well as testing the claims made in it against modern sciences such as archaeology, paleoclimatolgy, genetics, linguistics, oceanography and many more, the manuscript was found to be true in every instance. These modern discoveries were yet to be made in the 19th century when the manuscript first came into the public domain. Europe’s "Rosetta Stone" had been found.

The reader is taken on a journey to examine the memoirs and reports of men and women from Western Europe who suffered the biggest catastrophe in the recorded history of mankind; the catastrophe that killed millions and became known as "The Deluge" or "Noah’s Flood" . The manuscript reflects the sagas and adventures of these people as they led other survivors of the disaster from all over the world out of the Stone- and Bronze Ages into the Iron Age.

The pioneers from Europe’s western seaboard founded the ancient civilizations from Greece to Persia. They introduced the world to carbonized steel, chariot warfare, cavalry charges astronomy and mathematics. They gave man the "Greek alphabet", "Indo-Arabian numerals", democracy, free enterprise and monotheism. Four thousand years ago they even tried their hand at arms control and nature conservation.

The author provides maps and satellite images as proof of the existence of this forgotten civilization whose extent was greater than that of the European Union. The reader is also presented with ancient maps and irrefutable photographic evidence of an inhabited land the size of Britain which now lies more than 1000 meters below the cold waters of the North Atlantic.

The startling but well substantiated disclosures in "Survivors of the Great Tsunami" suggest that hereto accepted European, Asian and World history had been severely compromised in the past. For too long have historians, linguists, geneticists and others denied the pivotal role that Western Europe had played in early world history. Their legacy is incalculable. It is time they get their due recognition or, as Homer put it, "their due meed of glory".

http://impactsurvivors.com/synopsis.html

===========

About that Burckle Crater:

But Masse's work postulates that the recently discovered Burckle Crater off Madagascar may be reflected in wide-spread destruction myths possibly dated around 2800 BC.

http://archaeology.about.com/b/2007/12/05/geomythology-and-the-burckle-crater.htm

Burckle Crater is an undersea crater the Holocene Impact Working Group consider likely to have been formed by a very large scale and relatively recent (c. 2800-3000 BC) comet or meteorite impact event. It is estimated to be about 30 km (18 mi) in diameter [1], hence about 25 times larger than Meteor Crater.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burckle_Crater

===

But according to you it happened on 2193 BC. Do you have physical proof it happened in 2193 BC, and not around 2800 BC??

=====

About those mammoths on Wrangel Island:

A small population survived on St. Paul Island, Alaska, up until 3,750 BC,[2][15][16] and the small mammoths of Wrangel Island survived until 1,650 BC.[17][18][19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammoth

-----

It appears to me that you tend to stretch the dates of certain events to fit your theory.

If you now tell me, "Go read my book", I wil tell you, "Go read the Doggerland thread".

You have accepted the challenge by Riaan to post here about your book, and I am glad you accepted the challenge.

I for one am very interested. You can try to keep p***ing me off because I do not immediately bow down to your great wisdom and research, but that won't do the trick for me.

You also seem to forget that this board is visited by many thousands a day. If I did not take the trouble to try to discuss your book/theory with you, then this thread would very probably have died very soon.

But now many people will be interested in your book because *I* keep this discussion alive.

Maybe I should give you the number of my bank account...

----

OK, I wanted to say I was just kidding, but actually I am really p***ed off.

Call me a 'doubting Thomas' or whatever, but I just want meat. And when you start talking about a physical event like the Thera eruption, then you give me real meat.

And what you said about the Thera eruption is so unlikely, that I also start doubting about how you came to your other conclusions.

--

Nice, eh? Discussing on the internet??

.

Edited by Abramelin
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And another thing I like to continue 'harping' about:

Please show me another example of the use of the running script as used in the OLB.

Just one.

If this great civilization flourished all over Europe, then sure there will be stones, buildings, and other ancient manuscripts using the same script.

And please don't tell that that's what the Phoenician script actually is, because it looks different.

Just ONE other example.

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But according to you it happened on 2193 BC. Do you have physical proof it happened in 2193 BC, and not around 2800 BC??

To add to Abramelin's question, where is the evidence that the earth tilted on its axis in 2193 BC, causing major global havoc? Reference? Citation?

cormac

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Abe - Thanks for posting the above excerpt. Quite revealing, in at least two regards; 1) Questionable accuracy. 2) Rather hyperbolic writing style. Telling.

Alewyn - As previously pointed out by Abe and cormac, it would appear that you may wish to be more concise in regards to dating considerations. For example;

Hongshan Culture - Circa 4500-3000 BC.

Lindruff, Katheryn M., et. al.

2004 "Early Complex Societies in N.E. China: The Chifeng International Collaborative Archaeological Research Project"

Journal of Field Archaeology Vol. 29 No. 1/2 pp. 45-73.

Other sources will cite dates of circa 4700-2900 BC. In neither case do these dates correlate to your proposal.

Old Kingdom, Egypt - All indications are that the "collapse" of the Old Kingdom is related economic/political factors. Am unaware of evidence of catastrophic planetary events impacting this situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Kingdom - Yes, only wiki, but will suffice for moment.

Indus Valley Civilization - Circa 3300-1300 BC, with peak during Harappan Culture (2600-1900).

http://en.wikipedia.org/Indus_Valley_Civilization. Wiki as per above.

The mammoth dating has already been addressed twice (myself and Abe).

"Millions died"? "Man came to the brink of extinction"? Citations please. Current data estimates the global population of 2000 BC to be some 27 million.

http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/worldhis.html

"Tectonic plates shook and rocked violently"? Citations please. Is it being suggested that the notable mass of the seven major plates was "disturbed" by meteor impact?

Would be interested to review the coring data that supports widespread global volcanic activity/deposition.

Also, collaborative data from the Americas? During this instant of proposed H.S.S "extinction", we find North American populations experiencing increasing growth during the Archaic/Woodland transition.

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Hey Alewyn? Welcome to UM!!

I'm not sure if Abe is smarter when he's drunk or sober. It's hard to tell!!

Don't get your shirt in too much of a knot Alewyn, because although sometimes it seems like you're being constantly insulted, and put down, the truth usually comes out in the wash. Most of the skeptics here think I'm a ditz cause I can't remember everything which makes my life miserable, but I HAVE learned a lot, especially to always check my data no matter who wrote it down first AND if you're right, the proof will show it, and these guys will accept it on the proof. Take it from me, the treatment you've received so far could be considered downright gentlemanly compared to some of the stuff that's been dished out in the past.

Not that it means anything, but I like your theory. I'll probably like it even more if I can find your book and give it a read. It sounds like you've applied logic to your reasoning and research, and to me, logic rules. :)

Especially if it can be proven!! So far though, I think the "guys" are winning this round.

Edited by Qoais
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