seventh_son Posted July 25, 2004 #51 Share Posted July 25, 2004 I believe that God exists. I think we are all arrive into this life with an imbedded knowledge the there is much more to life that just what we see here. I m not sure why the difference of oppinoins between the US and Europe concerning the God theory. Maybe the Backround of our conceptions as Nations has something to do with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wings of Selkhet Posted July 25, 2004 #52 Share Posted July 25, 2004 (edited) Okay, I'm going to try to be unbiased here. I had this very argument with my own mother today. I told her she cannot logically prove that God exists. She yelled, "I don't need to prove it - I believe it - I feel it in my heart!" What I've gathered from living in a religious family my entire life is this: religion is not science. It is not based on the scientific method. It is a set of beliefs and instructions for living life. Some Christians, moral and intelligent people, believe in the truth of the Bible. They may not be able to prove it, but they believe it. I don't agree with them, and I don't like it, but it's the way it is. I've been watching aquatus and stellar debate saucy, and reading all of the threads in this forum, and I'm absolutely fascinated by the arguments of both sides. Both are absolutely convinced that they are right. Because they believe that they are right. They have based these beliefs on something entirely different - saucy, the Bible - and aquatus1, the scientific method, but their amount of conviction is exactly the same, and neither side will ever change the other's opinion. I wish beliefs were based on logic. But they're not. Beliefs aren't knowledge. Think of love, for example. Does anyone have any proof that love (I mean, true love, between two individuals - gay or straight) exists or doesn't exist? Some are convinced that it doesn't. Some are convinced that it does. It has different meanings for everyone. Such is the nature of God. His nature is different to everyone. That's where we must all practice tolerance, regardless of our own beliefs - we have to learn to accept that the nature of the God we believe in might be entirely different to someone else. We can think silently that this person is going to go to Hell or is believing in the wrong thing, but it is almost impossible to change a person's beliefs. So, anyway, to sum it up - beliefs do not equal knowledge. However, one may believe that their beliefs are knowledge - and such is the basis of religion. People are utterly convinced - they believe - that their beliefs are knowledge, and thus, the other side is wrong. That's why we can't sway them. And we never will. They can only sway themselves. That said, I'm a skeptical agnostic. I don't know if there's a God. But I really don't care, because I believe - yes, believe - I have absolutely no physical proof to back myself up - in reincarnation. So I don't fear a Heaven or a Hell or anyone's wrath. Oh, and, by the way. Here's a really good link regarding the trends in Europe vs. the trends in America. Edited July 25, 2004 by Wings of Selkhet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beowulf Posted July 25, 2004 #53 Share Posted July 25, 2004 As a Deist, I believe that the Creator exists, but is not the mass-murdering, rape and slavery condoning deity of that manuscript of Hebrew mythology, nor is he a poor itinerate Jewish Rabbi that happened to make an enemy of the Roman state. The Creator seems to love us, evidence of that is this perfectly balanced universe that allows live to exist and flourish, but to push Bronze Age mythology as his word is just a little weird, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
by-product of evolution Posted July 26, 2004 Author #54 Share Posted July 26, 2004 (edited) I'm absolutely fascinated by the arguments of both sides. Both are absolutely convinced that they are right. Because they believe that they are right. They have based these beliefs on something entirely different - saucy, the Bible - and aquatus1, the scientific method, but their amount of conviction is exactly the same, and neither side will ever change the other's opinion. That said, I'm a skeptical agnostic. I don't know if there's a God. But I really don't care, because I believe - yes, believe - I have absolutely no physical proof to back myself up - in reincarnation. So I don't fear a Heaven or a Hell or anyone's wrath. I'm fascinated too Wings; most of the people answered that they are sure. That's what is the most amazing I think. I personnally answered "No I'm almost sure He doesn't". How can anybody be sure in such a matter?! By the way Wings, are you sure reincarnation exists? Edited July 26, 2004 by by-product of evolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthygirl04 Posted July 26, 2004 #55 Share Posted July 26, 2004 I believe that God exists. I think we are all arrive into this life with an imbedded knowledge the there is much more to life that just what we see here. There we go!!! Very well said! Exactly what I believe also!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wings of Selkhet Posted July 26, 2004 #56 Share Posted July 26, 2004 By the way Wings, are you sure reincarnation exists? Nope. I guess that makes me a hypocrite. I'm just not 100% sure of anything! But I guess if there were a reincarnation poll, I'd answer "Yes, I'm almost sure it exists." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artrox Posted July 26, 2004 #57 Share Posted July 26, 2004 I am surprised to see this discussion become polarized by literal vs. not-literal...mentioning of dinosaurs, creation, Genesis as history. This kind of narrow interpretation limits our belief systems greatly. I personally think of the Bible as written in order for people to understand that a higher power exists, and keep in mind that it was written at a period in time when science was not a factor. With science in modern culture, I do not see a contradiction of the existence of a higher power. In many ways, science and evolution only enhance my beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_Again Posted July 26, 2004 #58 Share Posted July 26, 2004 How come God is viewed as a man? Does HE exist, doesn't HE exist? I marked other because I can't say that our creator is a man. When you figure out how, in whatever way you figure it out - scientifically or spiritually, then what...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted July 26, 2004 #59 Share Posted July 26, 2004 I don't think God exists, my reasons are scattered throughout the E vs C threads from the begining of the year. As much as I love debating, I've argued my case in this topic so many times I simply don't have the energy anymore. Does anyone have any proof that love (I mean, true love, between two individuals - gay or straight) exists or doesn't exist? Its a chemical imbalance in the brain which causes the desire to stay with a particualr mate long enough to raise the children, ending after about 4 years. I'm pretty sure Google.com will have somethig more on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanubia Posted July 26, 2004 #60 Share Posted July 26, 2004 i don't believe in the bible or the way it describes god! the bible said the god put humns on the earth first on one of the days he created it.....*scratches head*.......but what about the dinosaurs the bible only ever talks of mammals.so there for it can't be true unless you change the course of events which would then lead to you to not believing in it!!!!!!! You know, there are other monotheist religions besides Christianity. They say different things about the creation of Man and the World.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanubia Posted July 26, 2004 #61 Share Posted July 26, 2004 I get the feeling that the people here who do not believe in a god have only checked out one religion- the one they grew up in. There are so many other religions out there with different beliefe systems. You should explore those before you draw your conclusions on the existence of any divinities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatus1 Posted July 26, 2004 #62 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Perhaps, although in the small bit of time that I have come to know many of these people, I have found that they have a fairly through understanding, and quite a bit of experience with other religions. I myself was a buddhist prior to becoming an agnostic, and only recently turned atheist when I discovered that I simply no longer believed in supernatural entities as before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted July 26, 2004 #63 Share Posted July 26, 2004 I get the feeling that the people here who do not believe in a god have only checked out one religion- the one they grew up in. There are so many other religions out there with different beliefe systems. You should explore those before you draw your conclusions on the existence of any divinities. Most athiests are well aware of the beleif systems, we simply do not wish to follow them because we feel Athiesm provides the strongest arguement. Bet if we happened to follow another religion the issue of looking them all up before you choose one wouldn't have come up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unorthodox Thesis Posted July 26, 2004 #64 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Eveyone thinks that they have the answers! "My, I'm so open-minded my brains fall out!" "The Bible is real folks! For real!" "Oh, look at me with my strong atheist beliefs!" "Oh, I believe that people get rencarnated, I'll come back as a tree! Dhurr Yuck!" "Whooohooo! Look at me I'm so spiritual!" You know what I've gotta say to you folk? .. .. YO MAMA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphina Posted July 26, 2004 #65 Share Posted July 26, 2004 YO MAMA! Well, as great and insulting as that is, we'll do our best not to whither before you, and lose a great deal of sleep wondering what we did to deserve it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted July 26, 2004 #66 Share Posted July 26, 2004 YO MAMA! I love when folks quote the bible like that... I get such a warm fuzzy feeling inside... awww... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magikman Posted July 26, 2004 #67 Share Posted July 26, 2004 No doubt your own Mother would have a suitable, intolerant and swiftly implemented reaction to your childish remark, Norman. Suffice to say you're on notice to temper such immature taunts if you wish to continue to participate here. Magikman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyforrest Posted July 26, 2004 #68 Share Posted July 26, 2004 You know what I've gotta say to you folk? .. .. YO MAMA! What does that even mean? I know it is supposed to be some sort of insult... but how? And why? A great question to ponder. I will give a great deal of thought to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artrox Posted July 26, 2004 #69 Share Posted July 26, 2004 lol, fluffybunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted July 26, 2004 #70 Share Posted July 26, 2004 lol, fluffybunny The Bible according to Yo Mama: In the beggining there was the word, The word was good. The word was Yo Mama. ...blah blah blah And Ezekial begat YO Mama; who's years were 237 Yo Mama begat Jebediah... ...blah blah blah And Yo Mama said; blessed are the meek, for they are the inheritors of the earth... ...blah blah blah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted July 26, 2004 #71 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kismit Posted July 26, 2004 #72 Share Posted July 26, 2004 allright back on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
by-product of evolution Posted July 27, 2004 Author #73 Share Posted July 27, 2004 The whole 54% of french and english people thing. Its probably more accurate to describe us as British. neway. Right! Great-Britain comprises England, Wales and Scotland (but not Ireland which is very religious). Seraphina gave the the correct and only answer to why less europeans believe in god. Our cultures are simply older thats it. Come back in 300 years an yull find america is the same. Well there are very old countries very religious: Iran, India, Italy, etc. I don't think it's a question of a country's age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted July 27, 2004 #74 Share Posted July 27, 2004 (edited) Well there are very old countries very religious: Iran, India, Italy, etc. I don't think it's a question of a country's age. Nah, she is. Italy, is the home of Catholism, which was an anti-industrial religion, so while the Uk etc were steam rolling ahead in science, Italy was still agricultrual, plus they have the Pope and all. As for Iran and India... last time I checked they weren't part of Europe Anyway, assuming she wasn't just talking about America/Europe, you have to remember the Islam is 700 years behind Christainity. As for countries like India, it was well behind Europe in entering its industrial age. As for her not knowing any church goes, I know one, goes to church every morning without fail, only thing is he's an immigrant from Uganda, so I'm not sure he counts. Edited July 27, 2004 by Talon S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthygirl04 Posted July 27, 2004 #75 Share Posted July 27, 2004 (edited) Ok, this is going to be my last post on this topic. This is all I have to say..... I believe God exists. I also believe the Bible was inspired by God although a man had to put it down on paper. 2 Corinthians 5:7,(For we walk by faith, not by sight:) Mark 11:22, And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.Also it is written in Mattew 9:29, ....According to your faith be it unto you. So..., this is what I believe where it pertains to God. I also believe that there is more to this life ,than we have yet seen, or can even imagine. I also believe in ghosts, demons, ufo's,and that witchcraft works. "So you see, my beliefs spand farther than you can even know." I have told you what I believe according to the topic of this forum,"DOES GOD EXIST? WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?" Yes, I for one believe. The end. Period. To everyone I say, have a great day, and Blessed Be..... Edited July 27, 2004 by earthygirl04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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