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Nenaptio

MK-ULTRA

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Fluffybunny

If you do a search for that topic on this site you will find dozens of threads to read through. The search function is on the top right...have fun.

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Nenaptio

odarn lul, i searched mk-ultra, but searching mkultra without dash gave me results total facepalm in my part -.-

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puridalan

Yes, already tons of threads on it..too many to count, so I am not going to reiterate. Yes, it was bad and I believe things like that still go on...ya

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mean_jean

Did anyone hear of this before? I just found out about it today... the US research on mind control and stuff...

http://en.wikipedia....Project_MKULTRA

this is sickening...

There is also a kinda accurate/ kinda campy movie by the same name , it has Michael Madsen in it. That is where I first heard about it then started checking it out!!

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JamesBe1

Yeah, it's a major human rights issue. The program continues to this day under different guises.

Survivors are coming forward and speaking out finally. There are some of them posting thier experiances over on glp.

It's really sad what tptb have done. It sickens me to realize that we have funded this kinda of evil. I only hope we can make it right somehow someday.

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JamesBe1

There is also a kinda accurate/ kinda campy movie by the same name , it has Michael Madsen in it. That is where I first heard about it then started checking it out!!

I don't see that movie in imdb. Are you sure about that? There have been several other movies covering the topic. There's the Jason Bourne series, and Consipracy Theory.

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Robin_Shadowes

I don't see that movie in imdb. Are you sure about that? There have been several other movies covering the topic. There's the Jason Bourne series, and Consipracy Theory.

There is also Hardwired with Cuba Gooding Jr, Val Kilmer and Michael Ironside. It's about mind control and a brain implanted chip.

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Left-Field

What gets me is that the government has admitted to doing this, yet this is exactly the type of thing anti-conspiracy theorists (is that what they're called? lol) would go to any lengths to state didn't exist if it weren't for the government having admitted to it.

If this is the type of stuff they end up admitting, one can only imagine what they keep hidden from us and /or deny the existence of.

It's also infuriating that this occurrs and for the most part people simply shrug it off as if it's not that big of a deal.

Edited by -Sliver-

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Eldorado

There is also a kinda accurate/ kinda campy movie by the same name , it has Michael Madsen in it. That is where I first heard about it then started checking it out!!

is it UKM: The Ultimate Killing Machine?

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mean_jean

is it UKM: The Ultimate Killing Machine?

That' s the movie sorry bout that totally brain farted on that one!!

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JamesBe1

What gets me is that the government has admitted to doing this, yet this is exactly the type of thing anti-conspiracy theorists (is that what they're called? lol) would go to any lengths to state didn't exist if it weren't for the government having admitted to it.

If this is the type of stuff they end up admitting, one can only imagine what they keep hidden from us and /or deny the existence of.

It's also infuriating that this occurrs and for the most part people simply shrug it off as if it's not that big of a deal.

Yeah, cognitive disonance plays strongly into the lack of outrage on the part of the sheeple. I can imagine that many people are in outright denial when confronted with the worst human rights tragedy ever. If you (or anyone else) is interested, look into what is entailed in the creation of modern day victims (for lack of a better term).

When I started looking into it several years ago (even longer ago than that actually), I refused to believe it. It was only after encountering the same themes and accounts over and over again did the true horror begin to show itself. I've learned far too much to deny it. Even the scope of it is staggering. When you dig into it, it is easy to see how they kept it hidden for so long.

But it has to stop. We as a species cannot move forward with this kind of insipid evil running through our society.

If anyone things I am overhyping the issue, think again. If anything, I am understating it. Don't believe me . . . do your own homework - please.

What was that that J Edgar Hoover said - "The individual is handicapped by coming face to face

with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists."

Edited by JamesBe1

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H.H. Holmes

What I wonder is whether they succeeded in their attempts at mind control and by what means they go about doing it. I know the program dosed unwilling victims with LSD-25 and other psychoactive drugs to achieve a number of goals. Many of the goals are somewhat contradictory, like the simultaneous goal of enhancing and blocking alcohol's intoxicating effects.

This is a list from the Wikipedia site:

1. Substances which will promote illogical thinking and impulsiveness to the point where the recipient would be discredited in public.

2. Substances which increase the efficiency of mentation and perception.

3. Materials which will prevent or counteract the intoxicating effect of alcohol.

4. Materials which will promote the intoxicating effect of alcohol.

5. Materials which will produce the signs and symptoms of recognized diseases in a reversible way so that they may be used for malingering, etc.

6. Materials which will render the induction of hypnosis easier or otherwise enhance its usefulness.

7. Substances which will enhance the ability of individuals to withstand privation, torture and coercion during interrogation and so-called "brain-washing".

8. Materials and physical methods which will produce amnesia for events preceding and during their use.

9. Physical methods of producing shock and confusion over extended periods of time and capable of surreptitious use.

10. Substances which produce physical disablement such as paralysis of the legs, acute anemia, etc.

11. Substances which will produce "pure" euphoria with no subsequent let-down.

12. Substances which alter personality structure in such a way that the tendency of the recipient to become dependent upon another person is enhanced.

13. A material which will cause mental confusion of such a type that the individual under its influence will find it difficult to maintain a fabrication under questioning.

14. Substances which will lower the ambition and general working efficiency of men when administered in undetectable amounts.

15. Substances which promote weakness or distortion of the eyesight or hearing faculties, preferably without permanent effects.

16. A knockout pill which can surreptitiously be administered in drinks, food, cigarettes, as an aerosol, etc., which will be safe to use, provide a maximum of amnesia, and be suitable for use by agent types on an ad hoc basis.

17. A material which can be surreptitiously administered by the above routes and which in very small amounts will make it impossible for a person to perform physical activity.

Some of these goals might have already been met, I'm sure. There are several types of substances that can cause amnesia with a blackout effect, too. Sodium Pentothal is a drug that can achieve some of effects described, although it's efficacy is questionable. Some of the stronger benzodiazepines can cause amnesia, plus make the victim extremely sleepy. In all, though, I think that it is difficult to make a substance that can achieve the desired effects described above on a repetitive, reliable basis. People can still hold onto a lie under any of the "truth serums" like Sodium Pentothal, if they are a practiced liar. Other drugs, such as LSD-25 is too unreliable, also, in it's effects because of the unpredictable behavior exhibited by people dosed with the drug. There have been many new hallucinogenic drugs out there now, like 2C-B and hundreds of ill-studied psychadelics.

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puridalan

H.H.

While some of it was contradictory, that didn't really matter...it was more of testing for the sake of testing. It is like a child in a candy store, they don't just want one piece, they want to try it all. These experimenters are the same way and want to try how everything interacts especially since for once they have real human guinea pigs to test their crazy theories..or just for the hell of it because they can.

It's like well why do you want that 409,000 dollar purse, well because the person simply wants it..might not even be for a 'good' reason.

Yes, some of the drugs were and are used as 'truth serum' while others are the exact opposite which keep an individual from talking or remembering, especially if they have valuable information. Sometimes they would be programmed with valuable information, but they themselves would not know it...which is the perfect weapon. The 'master' then would use a code to re-call that deep seeded information from x patient and wooola. Which is probably good for secret keeping...something to that extent or remembering digits ect. In fact navy personnel are trained to remember very long digit codes for radars that they still use.

O and of course some people just like to torture other human beings and degrade them to pieces of dirt. Got to love that -.-

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JamesBe1

What I wonder is whether they succeeded in their attempts at mind control and by what means they go about doing it. I know the program dosed unwilling victims with LSD-25 and other psychoactive drugs to achieve a number of goals. Many of the goals are somewhat contradictory, like the simultaneous goal of enhancing and blocking alcohol's intoxicating effects.

This is a list from the Wikipedia site:

1. Substances which will promote illogical thinking and impulsiveness to the point where the recipient would be discredited in public.

2. Substances which increase the efficiency of mentation and perception.

3. Materials which will prevent or counteract the intoxicating effect of alcohol.

4. Materials which will promote the intoxicating effect of alcohol.

5. Materials which will produce the signs and symptoms of recognized diseases in a reversible way so that they may be used for malingering, etc.

6. Materials which will render the induction of hypnosis easier or otherwise enhance its usefulness.

7. Substances which will enhance the ability of individuals to withstand privation, torture and coercion during interrogation and so-called "brain-washing".

8. Materials and physical methods which will produce amnesia for events preceding and during their use.

9. Physical methods of producing shock and confusion over extended periods of time and capable of surreptitious use.

10. Substances which produce physical disablement such as paralysis of the legs, acute anemia, etc.

11. Substances which will produce "pure" euphoria with no subsequent let-down.

12. Substances which alter personality structure in such a way that the tendency of the recipient to become dependent upon another person is enhanced.

13. A material which will cause mental confusion of such a type that the individual under its influence will find it difficult to maintain a fabrication under questioning.

14. Substances which will lower the ambition and general working efficiency of men when administered in undetectable amounts.

15. Substances which promote weakness or distortion of the eyesight or hearing faculties, preferably without permanent effects.

16. A knockout pill which can surreptitiously be administered in drinks, food, cigarettes, as an aerosol, etc., which will be safe to use, provide a maximum of amnesia, and be suitable for use by agent types on an ad hoc basis.

17. A material which can be surreptitiously administered by the above routes and which in very small amounts will make it impossible for a person to perform physical activity.

Some of these goals might have already been met, I'm sure. There are several types of substances that can cause amnesia with a blackout effect, too. Sodium Pentothal is a drug that can achieve some of effects described, although it's efficacy is questionable. Some of the stronger benzodiazepines can cause amnesia, plus make the victim extremely sleepy. In all, though, I think that it is difficult to make a substance that can achieve the desired effects described above on a repetitive, reliable basis. People can still hold onto a lie under any of the "truth serums" like Sodium Pentothal, if they are a practiced liar. Other drugs, such as LSD-25 is too unreliable, also, in it's effects because of the unpredictable behavior exhibited by people dosed with the drug. There have been many new hallucinogenic drugs out there now, like 2C-B and hundreds of ill-studied psychadelics.

Yes they were successful. The process they use to do it is personality splitting. Or otherwise known as trauma based mind control. It causes Dissassociative Identity Disorder (DID) There are many other names, but it is the same thing. The MKULTRA project was shut down on paper only. It was resurected and closed down under different names over the years, and it continues to this day.

The Wiki article only tells the parts of the story that they allow you to know.

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H.H. Holmes

H.H.

While some of it was contradictory, that didn't really matter...it was more of testing for the sake of testing. It is like a child in a candy store, they don't just want one piece, they want to try it all. These experimenters are the same way and want to try how everything interacts especially since for once they have real human guinea pigs to test their crazy theories..or just for the hell of it because they can.

It's like well why do you want that 409,000 dollar purse, well because the person simply wants it..might not even be for a 'good' reason.

Yes, some of the drugs were and are used as 'truth serum' while others are the exact opposite which keep an individual from talking or remembering, especially if they have valuable information. Sometimes they would be programmed with valuable information, but they themselves would not know it...which is the perfect weapon. The 'master' then would use a code to re-call that deep seeded information from x patient and wooola. Which is probably good for secret keeping...something to that extent or remembering digits ect. In fact navy personnel are trained to remember very long digit codes for radars that they still use.

O and of course some people just like to torture other human beings and degrade them to pieces of dirt. Got to love that -.-

Yes, it seems that when given unlimited power, those who possess it will abuse it to no end. I think that some of the objectives on that list are not attainable, but who knows?

We like to think that the government has unlimited power and technological expertise. I don't know if that is so true, the government is limited in funds and those who control the resources might not want to go ahead with a project, unless demonstratable results can be shown. IF this program is still active, which we don't have proof of, then it is safe to assume that results in some of the areas have been achieved.

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puridalan

The government itself is a puppet, the corporations are actually larger than the government with certain individuals owning large portions...those the people (not all) that need to be watched out for.

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JamesBe1

Yes, it seems that when given unlimited power, those who possess it will abuse it to no end. I think that some of the objectives on that list are not attainable, but who knows?

We like to think that the government has unlimited power and technological expertise. I don't know if that is so true, the government is limited in funds and those who control the resources might not want to go ahead with a project, unless demonstratable results can be shown. IF this program is still active, which we don't have proof of, then it is safe to assume that results in some of the areas have been achieved.

I'm not trying to be contradictory, but while the government funding is limited, I believe that for many black projects, the sky is the limit (and them some) on funding. Besides, how much would you be willing to pay for a "Manchurian Candiate" if you had trillions at your disposal??

You are right to say "IF the program is still active". We don't have proof, but then again, what do you consider proof? Will the multiple survivor testimonies suffice? I corespond with several victims, and the common theme is evident. For me, the limited research I have done gives me 'proof beyond a reasonable doubt' that this program and it's attrocities continue to this day. If you are looking for absolute proof without a shred of doubt, then it's not gonna happen. But you, me, and any intelligent adult is certainly capable of connecting the dots.

I understand that the level of proof for everyone is different, and the effort that each person is willing to put into obtaining the proof is different too. I guess that you have to decide for yourself what those values are.

Side note: the government isn't the only group to use Trauma Based Mind Control. It's been around for a long long time.

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Sweetpumper

Side note: the government isn't the only group to use Trauma Based Mind Control.

We use it in Scientology! headbang.gif

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H.H. Holmes

I'm not trying to be contradictory, but while the government funding is limited, I believe that for many black projects, the sky is the limit (and them some) on funding. Besides, how much would you be willing to pay for a "Manchurian Candiate" if you had trillions at your disposal??

You are right to say "IF the program is still active". We don't have proof, but then again, what do you consider proof? Will the multiple survivor testimonies suffice? I corespond with several victims, and the common theme is evident. For me, the limited research I have done gives me 'proof beyond a reasonable doubt' that this program and it's attrocities continue to this day. If you are looking for absolute proof without a shred of doubt, then it's not gonna happen. But you, me, and any intelligent adult is certainly capable of connecting the dots.

I understand that the level of proof for everyone is different, and the effort that each person is willing to put into obtaining the proof is different too. I guess that you have to decide for yourself what those values are.

Side note: the government isn't the only group to use Trauma Based Mind Control. It's been around for a long long time.

I haven't had the opportunity to speak or hear any testimonies from those who claim to have been used in experiments, although if you have any links I would love to read some.

Depending on who's giving the accounts, I would find it hard to think that they were just making it up (barring someone with a delusional disorder or a paranoid schizophrenic) and I don't doubt the trauma that they went through.

Maybe some possible connections can be made through accounts of the facilities or area the experiments went on?

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SlimJim22

It's an interesting subject but I think Mk Ultra is the history and since then what they learnt is being tinkered with and wheeled out to the masses. Whether it be extreme interagation techniques, use of drugs, ECT or sleep deprivation I bet they all formed some part of the Mk Ultra umbrella of black ops.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/e1950/mkultra/Hearing03.htm

Is the pheneomena of medicating children at a young age, increases in alcohol dependence and PTSD all aprt of the way that mind control effects are being felt? Are we all mind controlled into consumerism or something deeper?

Maybe we are manipulated into looking into phony conspiracies to detract information from what is really going on. Below is a really good article but here is a part I liked.

Near the end of 2002, a surprisingly lethargic debate was underway in the U.S. concerning the "war on terror"'s erosion of Americans' civil liberties which many felt were already pretty meager anyhow, having been picked clean during two decades of the "war on drugs." The debate took a turn toward the paranormal when the corporate media briefly went agog over the Bush administration's citizen-stalking Information Awareness Office. By the time it got mentioned in the Washington Post, though, the IAO was old news to flying saucer buffs: Art Bell rival Jeff Rense had already run several articles scrutinizing the IAO's logo, which with its all-seeing, Masonic pyramid-and-eyeball seems meant to agitate the growing ranks of the understandably paranoid.

http://www.freewebs.com/blue_screen_theory/conspiracytheories.htm

Where does one draw the line when it comes to the erosion of civil liberties and an increasing centralization of the econmomy amongst giant multinational corporations. The issue of competition - good and monopolies - bad seems to have been forgotten since 911. It's hardly healthy now is it to give so much power to greedy fat cats who rarely consider more than terms of material gain and certainty of even greater gains in the future.

Edited by SlimJim22

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puridalan

I laughed at the 'war on terror' its like the 'war on drugs'...it will be never ending. It is funny to declare a never ending war don't you think? Especially when terror can be anything anyone wants it to be all depending on how it is dished out by others perspectives, especially with all of the propaganda available today. Does not matter how much beings are manipulated, it is up to them to take control of themselves. It is they who know that they can obtain true happiness, freedom and full health. It is cutting out all the unnecessaries in their life, which includes TV and junk food. One wants to not be manipulated by the drug corporations such as big pharma it is finding alternatives. Alternatives which include things such as exercise and a preservative free nutritional lifestyle. We can complain that we are being controlled, or we can go on and ignore (in some cases) and improve our lives by not depending heavily on pharma companies taking back control of our lives and communicating and thriving off of nature. Knowing simple things like if you step in poison ivy, that the virgina creeper a five star plant right beside it carries the antidote. (Usually a cure right next to a poison) Knowing plant identification, knowing what is healthy for our bodies, knowing why we ache. Lots of people have stopped listening to their own bodies and others around them and when you do this you are asking to be controlled to be a 'dial nob' and nothing more. Well how about you tune in to your own frequency and get things going!

As someone once told me, "Drugs like morphine open the individual up as an adversary to be controlled, it makes them into beings they are not"

Edited by puridalan

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JamesBe1

I haven't had the opportunity to speak or hear any testimonies from those who claim to have been used in experiments, although if you have any links I would love to read some.

Depending on who's giving the accounts, I would find it hard to think that they were just making it up (barring someone with a delusional disorder or a paranoid schizophrenic) and I don't doubt the trauma that they went through.

Maybe some possible connections can be made through accounts of the facilities or area the experiments went on?

Here is the quick and dirty link to search:

Easy Search

This is of interest to government sponsored abuses. Note the picture of the children behind bars:

Indian Lake Project

Here is a good spot with loads of information on all of the different aspects of it:

North American Freedom Foundation

Last but not least, there's this:

Last Link

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arglebargle
I haven't had the opportunity to speak or hear any testimonies from those who claim to have been used in experiments, although if you have any links I would love to read some.

Project Camelot has a lot of interviews with (amongst others) people who claim to have been involved with MK Ultra. Amongst them you can find interviews with David Corso and Duncan O'Finoian. Another interview with Aaron McCollum also speaks of something like this.

Please note I do not substantiate anything they express, I am merely pointing H.H. Holmes to interviews with people who claim to have been involed in M.K Ultra. Personally I think it all seems a tad far fetched, that they are all out of touch with reality and so on. But - I do not know for sure. There is a tiny fraction of a percentage of a chance that they are both truthful and correct, so I will not cast any ultimate judgement on their testimonies, but rather keep an open mind about it and take it with a grain of salt. If nothing else, they are interesting people to listen to.

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adrenochromevortex

I laughed at the 'war on terror' its like the 'war on drugs'...it will be never ending. It is funny to declare a never ending war don't you think? Especially when terror can be anything anyone wants it to be all depending on how it is dished out by others perspectives, especially with all of the propaganda available today. Does not matter how much beings are manipulated, it is up to them to take control of themselves. It is they who know that they can obtain true happiness, freedom and full health. It is cutting out all the unnecessaries in their life, which includes TV and junk food. One wants to not be manipulated by the drug corporations such as big pharma it is finding alternatives. Alternatives which include things such as exercise and a preservative free nutritional lifestyle. We can complain that we are being controlled, or we can go on and ignore (in some cases) and improve our lives by not depending heavily on pharma companies taking back control of our lives and communicating and thriving off of nature. Knowing simple things like if you step in poison ivy, that the virgina creeper a five star plant right beside it carries the antidote. (Usually a cure right next to a poison) Knowing plant identification, knowing what is healthy for our bodies, knowing why we ache. Lots of people have stopped listening to their own bodies and others around them and when you do this you are asking to be controlled to be a 'dial nob' and nothing more. Well how about you tune in to your own frequency and get things going!

As someone once told me, "Drugs like morphine open the individual up as an adversary to be controlled, it makes them into beings they are not"

"War is peace"

"Imagine a boot stomping a human face-for eternity."

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