Ancient aliens

[booNyzarC]

Don't get too mad. You'll turn into me.

Harte

The world could use more Hartes, but there will always be only one.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Can someone confirm or debunk this:

As I said before I don’t trust in Ancient Alien Hypothesis but these first 5 descriptions are interesting, if they are true.

Last one (6) is “history event.” Which I didnt find anywhere except on the internet.

1-India: The Mahabharata describes "two storey sky chariots with many windows, ejecting red flame, that race up into the sky until they look like comets . . . to the regions of both the sun and the stars." 4

2-India: Other references speak of:

Pushan sailing in golden ships across the ocean of the sky

Garuda (a celestial bird) carrying Lord Vishnu in cosmic journeys

3-China, 3rd century B.C.: Chuang Tzu, in a work entitled Travel to the Infinite, relates a trip he made into space to 32,500 miles from the earth.

4-The three levels of a pyramid in the Hsing Nu (Tibet) capital

commemorated three historical periods in the remote past: the pre-space travel era, the time when men were able to visit one of the heavenly bodies, and then afterward when they came back to earth and lost the power of space travel. It was here that there reposed on the altar a "stone brought from the moon."

5-The Epic of Etana (4,700 years old,Babylon) supplies us with very accurate descriptions of the earth's surface from progressive altitudes — descriptions which were not verified in our own era until the high-altitude aerial flights of the 1950s and the first space shots of the 1960s.

The description of this ancient space flight depicts exactly what

happens when man leaves the earth (the concept of the round earth which becomes small, due to perspective as distance increases, and changes into particular colors).

6-Nice and Genoa 1608

On the evening of August 5th, 1608, three luminous craft were seen by the towns residents over Baie des Anges in Nice, France,

The craft were long, oval in shape and flattened along their lengths, each with a "strange mast" on top of them.

The bay waters began to frothe underneath them, giving off a dense orange vapor, accompanied by a loud, unpleasant noise. From one of the craft two vaguelyhuman looking beings appeared.

They were described as being dressed in red clothes covered with silvery scales, with huge heads and luminous eyes. The two creatures, holding cables or tubes attached to the craft, jumped into the water and moved about their ship for around two hours.

When they returned inside the object, all three left at a high rate of speed.

Later that month on the 22nd, the craft reappeared further south in Genoa, Italy, where they were greeted with cannonballs that were fired at them, none of the creatures, or aliens emerged and no damage was observed to the craft.

People panicked, and several deaths were reported as the result of trampling by terrified people, overcome with fear.

Finally the three objects left.

French describe aliens and describe their airships,noise, effect on water and Italians even shoot at them.(?)

Source:MUFON UFO Journal, February 2009 , p. 7, “Citizens of Nice, France saw UFOs in 1608” by John Tomlinson (He is the MUFON Representative for France.)

I only found so called original source (Just title nothing more):

"Discours des terribles et espouvantables signes apparus sur la mer de Gennes".

Edited January 14, 2011 by the L

[ShadowSot]

the only thing I can find on Chuang Tzu that relates to traveling to the infinite, is this phrase:

As for the man who rides a true course between Heaven and earth, with the changes of the Six Energies for his chariot, to travel into the infinite, is there anything on which he depends?

I'd like to know how they came to the figure of 32,500 miles.

Maybe they meant Wan Hu?

1-India: The Mahabharata describes "two storey sky chariots with many windows, ejecting red flame, that race up into the sky until they look like comets . . . to the regions of both the sun and the stars."

There's a fairly good (and old) thread about the Vimanas. Specifically look at Qoais' and Abramelin's posts starting at page three.

Pushan sailing in golden ships across the ocean of the sky

A quick loop up shows Pushan is the vedic solar god. Instead of ships, he is represented as a shepherd. He rides a chariot pulled by goats.

Garuda (a celestial bird) carrying Lord Vishnu in cosmic journeys

Garuda is more than just a celestial bird, he's a godly being in his own right. The myth seems kinda sorta reminiscent of Sleipnir. He served of Vishnu's mount, sure... but doesn't seem to indicate anything beyond myth.

4-The three levels of a pyramid in the Hsing Nu (Tibet) capital

commemorated three historical periods in the remote past: the pre-space travel era, the time when men were able to visit one of the heavenly bodies, and then afterward when they came back to earth and lost the power of space travel. It was here that there reposed on the altar a "stone brought from the moon."

Can't find anything directly on this. The story surrounding it sounds about the same as the Dropa hoax, but I can't seem to find anything, even images of ruins.

5-The Epic of Etana (4,700 years old,Babylon) supplies us with very accurate descriptions of the earth's surface from progressive altitudes — descriptions which were not verified in our own era until the high-altitude aerial flights of the 1950s and the first space shots of the 1960s.

I'm going to stop here. I'm only loosely familiar with the legend and can't recall anything that would indicate what it's saying it does.

I'd ask you what you mean, but it seems you've copied and pasted this from another site.

Here's the myth, what indicates advanced knowledge to you?

(I'd read it myself but I'm swamped here at work and I don't have home internet (AGAIN! )

[Gaden]

I have recorded several of the AA shows, but every time I try to watch them, I have to stop after only a few minutes. Even I, with my lack of knowledge on any of the subjects covered, can see when they are lying, fabricating, or misleading. My anger rises to a level that adrenelin starts to flow and I become so uncomfortable I have to shut the tv off and go do something else. I particlarly dislike the statements like: "this can only mean...", "the only answer/possibility is...", "it is obvious that...". All of the pseudo scientists use these phrases. (was von Daniken the first?) They are designed to convince the reader that the person knows what they are talking about and that the viewer/reader does not have the intelligence to question them. Many years ago I tried to read Chariots of the Gods and had the same reactions, and have become convinced since then that these people only write these books and make these films to make money. I do not believe that many of them even believe what they are saying, and that they are deliberately duping the public in order to get rich. As sidebar, in reference to the mayan trinkets, the first thing I thought of when seeing them was that they looked almost exactly like flying fish.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Gaden

[cormac mac airt]

I have recorded several of the AA shows, but every time I try to watch them, I have to stop after only a few minutes. Even I, with my lack of knowledge on any of the subjects covered, can see when they are lying, fabricating, or misleading. My anger rises to a level that adrenelin starts to flow and I become so uncomfortable I have to shut the tv off and go do something else. I particlarly dislike the statements like: "this can only mean...", "the only answer/possibility is...", "it is obvious that...". All of the pseudo scientists use these phrases. (was von Daniken the first?) They are designed to convince the reader that the person knows what they are talking about and that the viewer/reader does not have the intelligence to question them. Many years ago I tried to read Chariots of the Gods and had the same reactions, and have become convinced since then that these people only write these books and make these films to make money. I do not believe that many of them even believe what they are saying, and that they are deliberately duping the public in order to get rich. As sidebar, in reference to the mayan trinkets, the first thing I thought of when seeing them was that they looked almost exactly like flying fish.

Well that and the ability to feed off the ignorance and gullibility of people, many of whom are too lazy to research things for themselves.

cormac

[ShadowSot]

Well that and the ability to feed off the ignorance and gullibility of people, many of whom are too lazy to research things for themselves.

cormac

Yep, they usually get represented as being "heroes" of the fringe. That's worth something even of it's self.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

@ShadowSot

Thanks Shadowsot for info and provided link. About Chuang Tzu and Six energies? maybe they think on six meals or six sleeping nights?

Yes I copy from page where is c.50 "evidnces" of Anicent alien "theory". On these 5 I didnt know anything.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

5-The Epic of Etana (4,700 years old,Babylon) supplies us with very accurate descriptions of the earth's surface from progressive altitudes — descriptions which were not verified in our own era until the high-altitude aerial flights of the 1950s and the first space shots of the 1960s.

The description of this ancient space flight depicts exactly what

happens when man leaves the earth (the concept of the round earth which becomes small, due to perspective as distance increases, and changes into particular colors).

Okay people this is foully wrong. I read the Epic of Etana and nothing close to what I said earlier.

Anyways it is interesting that they have myth,legend of Eagle and Serpent. Reminds me on Aztecs legend how they establish their city Tenochtitlan.(?)

As I remember they were wondering and their priests said that they will establish city when they see sign. Sign was when Eagle eating Serpent. Correct me if Im wrong. I read it somewhere.

[odas]

Okay people this is foully wrong. I read the Epic of Etana and nothing close to what I said earlier.

Anyways it is interesting that they have myth,legend of Eagle and Serpent. Reminds me on Aztecs legend how they establish their city Tenochtitlan.(?)

As I remember they were wondering and their priests said that they will establish city when they see sign. Sign was when Eagle eating Serpent. Correct me if Im wrong. I read it somewhere.

For me there is apsolutely no doubt that we have been visited by aliens and continue to do so. Absolutely no doubt that they interfered with our DNA. Absolutely no doubt that we are a creation of a higher power speak aliens.

The proof is all around us, the proof is in old scriptures Bible, Torah, Quran, and other ancient religious texts, in ancient drawings etc.

[ShadowSot]

Okay people this is foully wrong. I read the Epic of Etana and nothing close to what I said earlier.

Which was why I gave you the link to the story instead of going further into it, hope I didn't come off mean spirited.

When I saw you were copyapasting, I wanted to see what you actually thought of it after you read it yourself.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

For me there is apsolutely no doubt that we have been visited by aliens and continue to do so. Absolutely no doubt that they interfered with our DNA. Absolutely no doubt that we are a creation of a higher power speak aliens.

The proof is all around us, the proof is in old scriptures Bible, Torah, Quran, and other ancient religious texts, in ancient drawings etc.

Hi Odas

I respect your beliefs but there is other side of medal. I dont think that Aliens interfered with our DNA. In biology that is called evolution. Anyways recently Chatolic Pope said that Big Bang was act of God. And I think also that our Creator did create Universe. I dont believe that we are accident. And believe it or not Ortodox chatolic church and Roman Chatolic church believe in evolution. So we evoluated. I agree there are some unlogical things in that Evolution for me For example :Homo sapiens Idaltu and Hobits. Also fact that Homo Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapiens are two separate species. I found unlogic fact that we interbreed with Neanderthas.But that is very good theory. Ancient alien theory is not even theory in right meaning of that word. I read whole Bible and part of Quarn. And all that "close encounters" can be explain differently. Events that they didnt understand so they discribe or draw as something divine or as we today say extraterrestial.(There are unexplained things events in todays world too)Imagination, Personal Expiriences and many more. Im looking for any evidence that I can say okay yes aliens were here. But I didnt found them. Origin of souls are mysteries that is better to stop looking for since I geuss we will never understand where are they from. Ancient drawings are just drawings. They can represent many things. I dont know did you read page before. That is a good example. People say many things but when you look more carefully nothing is there. Nonsense. Anyways Im sure that todays science know a little. And History is also science. We as humanity have much to learn. There are many unanswered questions...

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Which was why I gave you the link to the story instead of going further into it, hope I didn't come off mean spirited.

When I saw you were copyapasting, I wanted to see what you actually thought of it after you read it yourself.

Im glad that I read it. Interesting indeed. Afterall there are just few tablets. As I said I found circa 50 "evidence" of Ancient alien theory. These five were unknown for me. I thought that Epic of Etana is like Mahabharata or Ramayana.

@all

I wonder does anyone knows French here on this site?

[ShadowSot]

Homo sapiens Idaltu and Hobits. Also fact that Homo Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapiens are two separate species. I found unlogic fact that we interbreed with Neanderthas.

What do you have a problem with?

Idaltu were a group of hominids more or less concurrent with our earlier Sapien ancestors, while the jury is stil out n the Hobbits, with them being either a relic population, or possibly an example of island dwarfism on a hominid population.

While neanderthal and homo sapiens are separate species, we were still close enough to successfully interbreed.

Species means a species that will not normally interbreed in the wild, but genetically they can be compatible enough to produce fertile offspring.

The term is more one of convenience for us than actually representing a clear line.

Origin of souls are mysteries that is better to stop looking for since I geuss we will never understand where are they from.

What is a soul?

Ancient drawings are just drawings. They can represent many things.

An example being where that show represented a Aztec's warrior outfit as a space suit.

And History is also science.

Technically, history is more art than science, it's simply a study of the past.

[booNyzarC]

For me there is apsolutely no doubt that we have been visited by aliens and continue to do so. Absolutely no doubt that they interfered with our DNA. Absolutely no doubt that we are a creation of a higher power speak aliens.

The proof is all around us, the proof is in old scriptures Bible, Torah, Quran, and other ancient religious texts, in ancient drawings etc.

Although I respect your apparently religious beliefs on this matter, I don't see any of what you've listed here as proof of aliens in any way. This makes me wonder how you can have absolutely no doubt. May I ask, specifically, what you find to be proof and why you interpret it in that way?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

@ShadowSot

-It is unlogic to me that separate developments. Idaltu and Hobbits were like implant. What does it mean? That nature make some tests? Are todays Homo sapiens will evolve in different species?

I found that little unlogic. We are still close enough to successfully interbreed. How ? Can you give me example in animal world if such exist?

You said for yourself "not normally interbreed in the wild" .It is mystery why is that happend in the first place. Why they melted ?

Is there any pure homo sapiens sapiens ?

-I wish I can tell you what is soul. Greater mind then I have difficulty to discribe soul. Plato, Aristotle, Ibn Sina Avicenna and many more. I can only give you many theories. All religions have their uniqe but similar theory. I like Philosophical views on souls. Selfawareness.

Many Scientists talked about that too. (I oftenly quote them on UM.)I think its a whole new and never ending debate. But I personally believe that death will be great expirience.

-Well I remember how my History teacher like to talk about History in general. Meaning and purpose of it. She told us many quotes.From well public known as "We teach History to undertsand present." or "History is written by victors" to not so known quotes as:

"History is a science, no more and no less."John Bagnell Bury.

Somehow I like that quote.

[ShadowSot]

-It is unlogic to me that separate developments. Idaltu and Hobbits were like implant. What does it mean? That nature make some tests? Are todays Homo sapiens will evolve in different species?

Why are they like implants? Species appear and disappear. There have been a number of hominid species, currently only a few are left.

It's entirely possible that homo sapiens will evolve eventually to a different species. We've already seperated into different races, and with how the definitions of species works, it's possible that if we were to take it on a strictr identifier of species that different species of humans exist.. but species is a fairly vague term. I'm going to stop here as speciation is not my strong point.

Is there any pure homo sapiens sapiens ?

Depends on what you mean.

Descendants of homo sapiens who never left Africa show no evidence in their DNA of crossbreeding with Neanderthal.

I found that little unlogic. We are still close enough to successfully interbreed. How ? Can you give me example in animal world if such exist?

Yep, wolves and dogs. Different species, they'll interbreed. There are different species of elephants that are still able to successfully interbreed.

-I wish I can tell you what is soul. Greater mind then I have difficulty to discribe soul. Plato, Aristotle, Ibn Sina Avicenna and many more. I can only give you many theories. All religions have their uniqe but similar theory. I like Philosophical views on souls. Selfawareness.

Many Scientists talked about that too. (I oftenly quote them on UM.)I think its a whole new and never ending debate. But I personally believe that death will be great expirience.

See, in a spiritual sense, I don't believe in the soul.

If you define it as the ability to think in reason, I could agree. But there are animals that such a definition would apply to as well.

-Well I remember how my History teacher like to talk about History in general. Meaning and purpose of it. She told us many quotes.From well public known as "We teach History to undertsand present." or "History is written by victors" to not so known quotes as:

"History is a science, no more and no less."John Bagnell Bury.

History is a field of study, but whereas science is a method where theories and hyptothesis are tested against observable data and where such results are repeatable.

History is not so, it is a study.

And since the dawn of writing, as well as improved tools when it comes to studying history, we now know better both the stories of the winners and the losers.

[Swede]

@ShadowSot

-It is unlogic to me that separate developments. Idaltu and Hobbits were like implant. What does it mean? That nature make some tests? Are todays Homo sapiens will evolve in different species?

I found that little unlogic. We are still close enough to successfully interbreed. How ? Can you give me example in animal world if such exist?

You said for yourself "not normally interbreed in the wild" .It is mystery why is that happend in the first place. Why they melted ?

Is there any pure homo sapiens sapiens ?

-I wish I can tell you what is soul. Greater mind then I have difficulty to discribe soul. Plato, Aristotle, Ibn Sina Avicenna and many more. I can only give you many theories. All religions have their uniqe but similar theory. I like Philosophical views on souls. Selfawareness.

Many Scientists talked about that too. (I oftenly quote them on UM.)I think its a whole new and never ending debate. But I personally believe that death will be great expirience.

-Well I remember how my History teacher like to talk about History in general. Meaning and purpose of it. She told us many quotes.From well public known as "We teach History to undertsand present." or "History is written by victors" to not so known quotes as:

"History is a science, no more and no less."John Bagnell Bury.

Somehow I like that quote.

To supplement some of the information provided by ShadowSot, you may find the below to be of assistance. Take the time to explore each site thoroughly.

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species

http://www.wsu.edu:8001/vwsu/gened/learn-modules/top_longfor/timeline/timeline.html

http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/default.htm

Other examples of related species interbreeding: Horses/donkeys, lions/tigers.

.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

They were like implants imo since they evolve on small teritorry so I guess they were small numbers of that spicies. They appear out of no where. That is strange.

Why they interbreed in the first place ?

Thanks Swede.

Edited January 16, 2011 by the L

[odas]

Hi Odas

I respect your beliefs but there is other side of medal. I dont think that Aliens interfered with our DNA. In biology that is called evolution. Anyways recently Chatolic Pope said that Big Bang was act of God. And I think also that our Creator did create Universe. I dont believe that we are accident. And believe it or not Ortodox chatolic church and Roman Chatolic church believe in evolution. So we evoluated. I agree there are some unlogical things in that Evolution for me For example :Homo sapiens Idaltu and Hobits. Also fact that Homo Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapiens are two separate species. I found unlogic fact that we interbreed with Neanderthas.But that is very good theory. Ancient alien theory is not even theory in right meaning of that word. I read whole Bible and part of Quarn. And all that "close encounters" can be explain differently. Events that they didnt understand so they discribe or draw as something divine or as we today say extraterrestial.(There are unexplained things events in todays world too)Imagination, Personal Expiriences and many more. Im looking for any evidence that I can say okay yes aliens were here. But I didnt found them. Origin of souls are mysteries that is better to stop looking for since I geuss we will never understand where are they from. Ancient drawings are just drawings. They can represent many things. I dont know did you read page before. That is a good example. People say many things but when you look more carefully nothing is there. Nonsense. Anyways Im sure that todays science know a little. And History is also science. We as humanity have much to learn. There are many unanswered questions...

How you doing L? How's the weather in Croatia? Man, I miss the most beautifull seacoast in the world. I was in Zagreb in September. Very clean and the hospitality is an A.

L, We only asume that ancient people did not understand some things and then gave it a divine form. We do not know if they realy understood it or not.

But, it is not enough to read eg. the bible or the quran ( for instance many muslims read the quran but do not have a clue what the writer wanted to say....haha - remember this question in school?-), on has to read carefull, stop at every sentence and think.

In my eyes, they draw what they saw. They wrote about things they saw, but it is us who can not eplain it rationaly.

BoonyzarC, again, the proof that I see might not be the proof that you see. We can not see always things the same way and there is no I am right and you are wrong. It is a matter of perspective.

I am not a religious person in the way you might think, but I do see a lot of proof of aliens visiting us and creating what we are now.

Did you ever build something from scratch? Whad do you do in the process? When you finnish a part, you stop and take a look. If it is good you continue, if not, you start again. Well, if you read the bible, this is how God or as I like to call him the CEO of the intergalactical sociaty, created life on our planet.

Anyway, I can not explain you and give you the proof, sorry, it is a matter of peronal understanding. But for some reason I believe you and I both will know the answer in our liftime.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

@Odas

Im fine. I hope you doing well too. Weather in Croatia is fine. Sunshine over Zagreb.

You are not only one who miss Adriatic sea. You know how they say: Small country for great hollidays. I hate that part "Small country." Yeah Dalmatia, Istra, all Islands ....Im nostalgic. Im so close yet so far from it. Time and money...

Well we as humanity dont have all puzzles.I agree.

It is interesting how people interpert differently on the same things.

For example:

Five people looking at dog. What each of five people interpert depends on personal history and characther of the observers. They all see dog but :

One will think: food. Second will think: love. Third will think: monster. Fourth will think: dog. Fifth will think : Family memeber.

Thats why we have preachers, priests, hodjas to explained us mortals right meaning of the Bible, Quran...

Some things they cant explain. And if that things dont existed I wouldnt be here at first place. When I said that Im not thinking on Bible Quran specifically..

Edited January 16, 2011 by the L

[Bendy Demon]

Why they interbreed in the first place ?

Maybe because they were particularly kinky, maybe?

Sorry...I was feeling a bit goofy there for a moment...

[ShadowSot]

Why they interbreed in the first place ?

Why not, they would have looked mostly the same in any case.

All jokes aside, neanderthal could walk down the streak today and most people wouldn't notice the difference.

Edited January 16, 2011 by ShadowSot

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Why not, they would have looked mostly the same in any case.

All jokes aside, neanderthal could walk down the streak today and most people wouldn't notice the difference.

I read in link what Swede gave me that they have large bones , massive muscless. They were short. They had differnet shape of the skull. Red hair.If I can be to free do discribe them how I imagine them they were like combination of the Orks and Dwarves from the SF-fantasy.

It is also interesting why they disappeared. And why (if,my guess) homo sapiens males took their females? Are they in war ?

EDIT: Swede next month I will be going to visit Vindija cave.

Edited January 16, 2011 by the L

[Swede]

I read in link what Swede gave me that they have large bones , massive muscless. They were short. They had differnet shape of the skull. Red hair.If I can be to free do discribe them how I imagine them they were like combination of the Orks and Dwarves from the SF-fantasy.

It is also interesting why they disappeared. And why (if,my guess) homo sapiens males took their females? Are they in war ?

EDIT: Swede next month I will be going to visit Vindija cave.

It may be that you are interpreting the information a bit inaccurately. I take it that you are referring to Neanderthalensis?

Yes, they were a more robust species, as opposed to the more gracile H. sapiens sapiens, and studies of muscle insertion indicate that they were quite strong. As to height, they were not all that short and above the average for Europeans of only a few hundred years ago. They generally fell into the 5'6" +/- range, though there would appear to be a degree of sexual dimorphism in excess of sapiens sapiens. The robust nature of their structure is quite in keeping with the physical demands that would have been part of their survival, hence an evolutionary element.

As ShadowSot noted, their physical appearance would not put them outside of the range of modern humans.

Keep in mind that as recently as 30,000 to 48,000 yrs. BP there were at least four species of the genus Homo still extant (neanderthalensis, sapiens sapiens, floresiensis, and the more recently documented Denisova case).

Backing up a bit: Do not confuse the preservation/recovery element as being indicative of "small territory" or "appearing out of nowhere". Also keep in mind the low population density.

While the research into the numerous branches of the homonid tree is an ongoing project, the following may provide a somewhat better visual understanding:

http://www.amnh.org/education/resources/rfl/web/hhoguide/family-tree.html

The "disappearance" matter was likely due to a number of factors, many of which may be related to the climatic changes of the latter Pleistocene and the demands that these changes placed upon species that were without the adaptational abilities/social structure/toolkits of H. sapiens sapiens compounded by the expansion of the latter species. This, of course, does not preclude the possibility of some minor degree of direct conflict, and there are some indications of such.

Have fun at Vindija.

.

[TheSearcher]

@all

I wonder does anyone knows French here on this site?

Amongst other languages, yes I speak French. What may I help you with mate?