Woman claims cancer cured by prayer

[Shadow_of_Man]

I am a strong believer in God and in miracles. I have seen a woman's brain tumor disappear between doctor visits without treatment because of prayer. I know that God works. When bad things happen, it's because man has free will. He (or she) doesn't have to listen to God or do what's right. There are horrible things and people in the world, but don't blame God. Mankind has defied him, yet he still loves us despite ourselves.

[Star of the Sea]

According to the 2nd of the 10 Commandments, that is correct.

"You shall have no other gods before me."

So any statues of the virgin Mary, the pope, any saints and martyrs, the rosary (which is praying mostly to the virgin Mary) is all a form of worship of a false idol.

Hi,

I'm Roman Catholic and we do not worship the Virgin Mary, the Pope or the Saints. We ask through prayer for the Saints etc to intercede for us in our petiitions to Our Lord. You completely misunderstand the Rosary aswell. The Rosary is comprised of prayers meditating on Jesus' life through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin.

[Emma_Acid]

I got shot down on these forums about 6 months back for claiming faith and the placebo effect are the same thing.

That's because they're not the same thing, even close. Its been shown, for example, that a dentist's belief in the effectiveness about a painkiller can affect how much pain the patient feels, even if the patient is completely unaware about the testing.

This has nothing to do with "faith" or "changing reality".

I am a strong believer in God and in miracles. I have seen a woman's brain tumor disappear between doctor visits without treatment because of prayer. I know that God works. When bad things happen, it's because man has free will. He (or she) doesn't have to listen to God or do what's right. There are horrible things and people in the world, but don't blame God. Mankind has defied him, yet he still loves us despite ourselves.

That's not God working, thats nature. Cancer can disappear on its own, in a very very small number of cases, and lets face it, the amount of people "cured" by prayer is indeed very very small.

If prayer actually worked, we'd expect to see it in action much more obviously.

Believing God cures cancer is a step away from burning your neighbour for casting spells over your crops. It employs exactly nil critical thinking skills and a dangerous way of viewing the world.

[Rocketgirl33]

One thing is almost for sure, with such a negative attitude if you ever have need of a "miraculous cure" you will probably not get one. How's that for fair.

Truely? And exactly how many "miracles" has god performed for you lately? For that matter, how many people do you know personaly who have been healed by devine power and not modern science? How many people die every day waiting for devine healing from God? When you get sick do you ask god to heal you or do you go to a doctor and get "cured"? And if someone goes to the Doctor and prays also, why do they give God the credit and not the Doctor? If I need a cure for anything I turn to science because science has cured millions more people than god ever did. How can any one give god credit for one saposed miracle healing when he allows millions to suffer and die horrible deaths? If you have children and they all come down with deadly cancer, why would you only choose to heal one of them and allow the others to suffer? What kind of love is that? What kind of god is this who picks only so few to heal? This is how I see the world of the devine god, this is my opinion on the matter. Iam not trying to personally attack any one. I don't believe in God or the Bible or devine healing or answered prayers. Does this make me a horrible person? I don't think you are being fair. I do not look for "miraculous cures" becasue I like to think that Iam a logical thinking person who knows if something is wrong with my body I turn to science to fix it. Let me ask you this: If you believe that God created man, then is it not logical to believe that he gave man the ability to discover science and use it to heal the sick? Why would God give man the ability to use science to better himself then call it a sin?

The world is a complex and wounderful place to live. We are living in a time right now that we have the ability to wipe out all the deseases on this planet. I don't think that just because one woman had her cancer die before it could be removed that any one should call it devine healing. But if they do, then huuuurrrrayyyy for them! She is probably a really nice lady and diserves to live, but I know a million others who are just as nice and pray just as hard and are rewarded with a coffin for their efforts. I will say though that the mind is a poerfull organ. If you believe some thing strong enough you might be able to change it with the power of your mind alone. There have been many studdies on this subject out side of religion and the results are pretty positive. Does that make it devine? Science has surpassed god and is leaving him in the dust.

[The Silver Thong]

That's not what I meant at all silverthong. What I meant/believe is that it was this womans positive attitude and faith that she would be cured is what cured her, and someone who is hostile to that basically has an attitude that would mean thier death with a similar disease. Does that make any sense?

Now that rings true. A good positive attitude can do a world of good for you and others. However that positive attitude requires no gods and or miracles. The later give false hope and a feeling of disappointment when said god does not answer ones prayer.

God is a constant let down when one sits down and really thinks about it. To pray may make some feel better but to pray in the hopes of a result, better buy a lotto ticket.

[The Silver Thong]

I am a strong believer in God and in miracles. I have seen a woman's brain tumor disappear between doctor visits without treatment because of prayer. I know that God works. When bad things happen, it's because man has free will. He (or she) doesn't have to listen to God or do what's right. There are horrible things and people in the world, but don't blame God. Mankind has defied him, yet he still loves us despite ourselves.

That's nice, now show us how god works because he sure isn't ready to revel himself/itself to just anyone. Oh wait, god relies on man for that. Got ya

Happy to hear the lady in your story was ok.

Edited July 20, 2010 by The Silver Thong

[Power Lust]

Now that rings true. A good positive attitude can do a world of good for you and others. However that positive attitude requires no gods and or miracles. The later give false hope and a feeling of disappointment when said god does not answer ones prayer.

God is a constant let down when one sits down and really thinks about it. To pray may make some feel better but to pray in the hopes of a result, better buy a lotto ticket.

Positive thinking gets you far in life (the secret) but isnt this the same as having faith or the placebo effect?

If you think its entirely a medical phenomonom then what about the psychic experiments where the person effects a RND number generator? I believe there is an effect and its all to do with what you expect.

[Power Lust]

That's because they're not the same thing, even close. Its been shown, for example, that a dentist's belief in the effectiveness about a painkiller can affect how much pain the patient feels, even if the patient is completely unaware about the testing.

This has nothing to do with "faith" or "changing reality".

and yet reality has just been altered to one where the patient feels no pain.

[The Silver Thong]

Positive thinking gets you far in life (the secret) but isnt this the same as having faith or the placebo effect?

If you think its entirely a medical phenomonom then what about the psychic experiments where the person effects a RND number generator? I believe there is an effect and its all to do with what you expect.

If we talk about the placebo effect then we can also equate that to the santa clause effect. Be good or you don't get rewarded but be good on my terms type deal.

Could you post some of those psychic experiments for us. I'm sure that will clear things up. Predictions given a constant are not predictions but expected results.

[Power Lust]

If we talk about the placebo effect then we can also equate that to the santa clause effect. Be good or you don't get rewarded but be good on my terms type deal.

Could you post some of those psychic experiments for us. I'm sure that will clear things up. Predictions given a constant are not predictions but expected results.

The placebo effect is well documented in medical literature so I will ignore the Santa Claus comments.

As for RND number generators thats well documented too so I'm ignoring that as well.

[Larving]

That's not what I meant at all silverthong. What I meant/believe is that it was this womans positive attitude and faith that she would be cured is what cured her, and someone who is hostile to that basically has an attitude that would mean thier death with a similar disease. Does that make any sense?

Unless the cancer just retreated on its own.. Or the keychain thing I brought up. People never account for the keychains!

I am a strong believer in God and in miracles. I have seen a woman's brain tumor disappear between doctor visits without treatment because of prayer. I know that God works.

To shamelessly steal an arguement: "Why does god not heal Amputees?"

The placebo effect is well documented in medical literature so I will ignore the Santa Claus comments.

As for RND number generators thats well documented too so I'm ignoring that as well.

So you replied to say you won't reply?

[The Silver Thong]

The placebo effect is well documented in medical literature so I will ignore the Santa Claus comments.

As for RND number generators thats well documented too so I'm ignoring that as well.

Yes the placebo effect works on some because one believes a lie that they were not a part of.

Could you explain a bit more about your RND thing.

Edited July 20, 2010 by The Silver Thong

[RamboIII]

While she's at it, say thanks for the initial cancer that "God" gave her.

I'm sure the millions of Christians who pray to God in order to survive and end up dying have a serious problem with this when they realize they don't go to heaven (because it doesn't exist).

It is proven that dogs help cancer victims as well. One prayer for the canines.

You know what else helps thousands of cancer victims? MEDICAL TREATMENT.

Why doesn't this lady just get over herself... I can't believe people are still ignorant like this. With all due respect.

EDIT:

I don't feel as if I said enough so I decided to review the story one more time. The cancer victim was given weeks, perhaps months to live based on the human diagnosis given to her by the doctor. This sounds familiar. Hundreds if not thousands of people have gone to the doctor to hear that they will certainly die but choose to work through the unfortunate predictions. This is just a false-credited story of a misdiagnosis from a doctor and it is not wonder that we have stories like this because cancer is such an ambiguous medical condition.

However, I cannot return enough to those who face the other side of this. What of those who have this same blind faith and face the opposite outcome. This is extremely important because this outcome denies ALL theories of God's benevolence. I have been to the medical center of Houston enough to first hand know several people who are strong christians and were diagnosed with cancer. Unfortunately, I also know people who did not come out alive (even when they were told they would certainly LIVE).

In conclusion, this story is not only a fallacy (in no way can God or the priest be rightfully credited), but it is also EXTREMELY disrespectful to all the people who have died as a result of relying on blind faith over extensive medical treatments.

Edited July 20, 2010 by RamboIII

[+OverSword]

Now that rings true. A good positive attitude can do a world of good for you and others. However that positive attitude requires no gods and or miracles. The later give false hope and a feeling of disappointment when said god does not answer ones prayer.

God is a constant let down when one sits down and really thinks about it. To pray may make some feel better but to pray in the hopes of a result, better buy a lotto ticket.

I think that depends on what kind of God you believe in. I believe in God, but my God is more of the "The lord helps those that help themselves" variety. In my little corner of reality the correct way to pray is for guidance to think right or make the right decisions, and after that's all said and done thinking right or making the right decisions is still up to me. That still doesn't mean that I don't believe this woman was cured by a miracle from God. God is within us all and if she believes she found a way to call upon that power to cure her who are we to say she's wrong.

Also, don't discount the studies where people were prayed for without thier knowledge and the marked improvement in thier conditions as recorded by doctors running the studies.

Edited July 20, 2010 by OverSword

[+OverSword]

Truely? And exactly how many "miracles" has god performed for you lately? For that matter, how many people do you know personaly who have been healed by devine power and not modern science? How many people die every day waiting for devine healing from God? When you get sick do you ask god to heal you or do you go to a doctor and get "cured"? And if someone goes to the Doctor and prays also, why do they give God the credit and not the Doctor? If I need a cure for anything I turn to science because science has cured millions more people than god ever did. How can any one give god credit for one saposed miracle healing when he allows millions to suffer and die horrible deaths? If you have children and they all come down with deadly cancer, why would you only choose to heal one of them and allow the others to suffer? What kind of love is that? What kind of god is this who picks only so few to heal? This is how I see the world of the devine god, this is my opinion on the matter. Iam not trying to personally attack any one. I don't believe in God or the Bible or devine healing or answered prayers. Does this make me a horrible person? I don't think you are being fair. I do not look for "miraculous cures" becasue I like to think that Iam a logical thinking person who knows if something is wrong with my body I turn to science to fix it. Let me ask you this: If you believe that God created man, then is it not logical to believe that he gave man the ability to discover science and use it to heal the sick? Why would God give man the ability to use science to better himself then call it a sin?

The world is a complex and wounderful place to live. We are living in a time right now that we have the ability to wipe out all the deseases on this planet. I don't think that just because one woman had her cancer die before it could be removed that any one should call it devine healing. But if they do, then huuuurrrrayyyy for them! She is probably a really nice lady and diserves to live, but I know a million others who are just as nice and pray just as hard and are rewarded with a coffin for their efforts. I will say though that the mind is a poerfull organ. If you believe some thing strong enough you might be able to change it with the power of your mind alone. There have been many studdies on this subject out side of religion and the results are pretty positive. Does that make it devine? Science has surpassed god and is leaving him in the dust.

What I meant was that since your mind is of a negative attitude concerning the whole thing that you would have no "miracle cure".

Don't worry about the end because eventually that woman will have the reward of a coffin too.

edited for spelling

Edited July 20, 2010 by OverSword

[Beckys_Mom]

Main thing here is..............she got cured.. the all clear...and if she believes it was like a miracle....well ya know what? so be it.....

Even though I do not get why god would fav the prayer from one person to another...that is beyond me...

Anyhoo she is cured..great stuff.. hope she stays that way for 5 years...and continues to get the all clear

C-ya

EDIT

Don't worry the end because eventuall that woman will have the reward of a coffin too.

My word...so very........................morbid....!!!!...............*shakes head*...I don't wanna know...

good grief!!!!!!!!

Edited July 20, 2010 by Beckys_Mom

[Euphorbia]

Hope this works as this is my first post! I am a natural born skeptic of just about everything that can't be explained by science. If praying really worked, why wouldn't everybody who has prayed for world peace received their wish? Or the amputee their limb back?

The cancer either was misdiagnosed or just went away on it's own with probably the treatment the doctors gave.

That said, if people want to believe in miracles, matters not to me...

[Kailash 108]

I could believe it. The power of prayer is very very strong. Mantra's also cure any diseases known to man. If one is to Chant the 1000 names of Devi or Durga one will be of all diseases and mis fortunes. It is said this LALITHA SAHASRANAMA By mediating on Mother Lalitha as seated in the midst of the nectar-ocean, and repeating this Sahasranama, poison (if taken in) can be digested (and assimilated).

[Mr. Miyagi]

I could believe it. The power of prayer is very very strong. Mantra's also cure any diseases known to man. If one is to Chant the 1000 names of Devi or Durga one will be of all diseases and mis fortunes. It is said this LALITHA SAHASRANAMA By mediating on Mother Lalitha as seated in the midst of the nectar-ocean, and repeating this Sahasranama, poison (if taken in) can be digested (and assimilated).

Wow. That's a bold statement... and a dangerous one. Imho prayer can have a positive mental aspect when dealing with severe illness. However, I'd tend to rely upon a medical doctor for any actual physical attention.

Seriously think about what you are suggesting here.

[WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT]

I'm not Catholic, so I don't know how things work over there. I'm not even Christian, per se, but this bugs me.

Shouldn't she be praying to God for Him to heal her, and not praying to some priest?

Interesting though. It doesn't, however, say what treatments she underwent from age 15 diagnosis to the time she was cured.

My thoughts exactly Purplos...

While I am pleased she is cancer free... we are taught not to pray to anyone but God/Jesus...as some beleive they are the same person...

I do ""talk"" to the saints etc, but I dont "pray" to them.... and I ALWAYS say thank you for their help when granted .... and always in the name of Jesus i send my thoughts or intercessions...

[War-Junkie]

Wow. That's a bold statement... and a dangerous one. Imho prayer can have a positive mental aspect when dealing with severe illness. However, I'd tend to rely upon a medical doctor for any actual physical attention.

Seriously think about what you are suggesting here.

no no no... let him try it and rely on his faith to see him through. but make sure you have a doctor standing by to treat you when u start convulsing or you can let the doctor stand by while your GOD protects you. tell me how that works out for you....after the doctor saves you not god

[The Silver Thong]

I think that depends on what kind of God you believe in. I believe in God, but my God is more of the "The lord helps those that help themselves" variety. In my little corner of reality the correct way to pray is for guidance to think right or make the right decisions, and after that's all said and done thinking right or making the right decisions is still up to me. That still doesn't mean that I don't believe this woman was cured by a miracle from God. God is within us all and if she believes she found a way to call upon that power to cure her who are we to say she's wrong.

Also, don't discount the studies where people were prayed for without thier knowledge and the marked improvement in thier conditions as recorded by doctors running the studies.

I would like to see those prayer studies as I can't seeing them holding much water but hey if it's scientific and holds up I will listen.

As far as god goes I'm not about to say ya or na on the issue however I hold myself just as accountable as anyone may hold god accountable for good or bad. I make my bed god doesn't so when things come to be I have to own up to every choice I have ever made on my own merit. I know I'm not a good guy, some might call me names I can't say here. On that note I would like to say hi to BM she is a sweet hart but a ball breaker that has many names for me. At the end of the day, I sit back and go ahhhhh now onto tomorrow where everything will be new. Cancer may get me or a bus might get me, I take life with out the guilt of born into sin and I relish in seeing my fellow man accomplish wonderful things. As you can see I'm a simple man that requires no out side influence to achieve happiness.

BM your still the bomb baby

Edited July 20, 2010 by The Silver Thong

[RamboIII]

Main thing here is..............she got cured.. the all clear...and if she believes it was like a miracle....well ya know what? so be it.....

Even though I do not get why god would fav the prayer from one person to another...that is beyond me...

Anyhoo she is cured..great stuff.. hope she stays that way for 5 years...and continues to get the all clear

Well that's just the half of the story here..

There is the subjective aspect of it-- the fact that the woman's interpretation of the events leading to her cure was that it was the will of God-- but there is also the fact that she wants to get the priest sainted-- meaning that her story would be objectively defined as a miracle. That is utterly ridiculous. Therefore, I bring back my initial argument from my first post (which was not mentioned/denied by anyone else so far) which was that this woman is disrespectful. So yeah, great for her..she's healed. But that does NOT mean you have to disrespect all of those who are implied to be unqualified to deserve God's benevolence.

If you think about it, the true villain here is christianity itself.

Christianity. Hypocrites again. History repeats itself

[+OverSword]

Well that's just the half of the story here..

There is the subjective aspect of it-- the fact that the woman's interpretation of the events leading to her cure was that it was the will of God-- but there is also the fact that she wants to get the priest sainted-- meaning that her story would be objectively defined as a miracle. That is utterly ridiculous. Therefore, I bring back my initial argument from my first post (which was not mentioned/denied by anyone else so far) which was that this woman is disrespectful. So yeah, great for her..she's healed. But that does NOT mean you have to disrespect all of those who are implied to be unqualified to deserve God's benevolence.

If you think about it, the true villain here is christianity itself.

Christianity. Hypocrites again. History repeats itself

You think her believing a miracle sent from God implies that she believes that people who are not cured are not worthy of a cure making them inferior to her in her mind? Man that's twisted to the point,and forgive me for saying, of stupidity. And Oh yeah. That villanous christianity! How dare it give her the strength of conviction to believe a miracle can happen. And don't get me wrong, I don't mean to imply you're a negative jerk, but you sound a little bitter. Edited July 20, 2010 by OverSword

[The Silver Thong]

You think her believing a miracle sent from God implies that she believes that people who are not cured are not worthy of a cure making them inferior to her in her mind? Man that's twisted to the point,and forgive me for saying, of stupidity. And Oh yeah. That villanous christianity! How dare it give her the strength of conviction to believe a miracle can happen. And don't get me wrong, I don't mean to imply you're a negative jerk, but you sound a little bitter.

To make Rambo's point a bit more palatable I have read his posts for a bit now I think he's mad or bitter that man kind doesn't put enough effort into mankind. We kind of waste a lot of our efforts on a perspective that I share into a faith or religion that does not reward what so ever. This so called miracle has no basis to be considered anything more then a medical mystery. If we chose to call it a miracle then we have to also believe god only listens to a very very small portion of the people that pray. To me thats illogical to ask people to do such. Hence my lotto ticket I need to buy, 50 million this friday

Edited July 20, 2010 by The Silver Thong