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Woman claims cancer cured by prayer


Still Waters

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I'm sure it was a very scientific investigation and completely uncompromising of the rigorous scientific method.

Edit: I'm sure others already mentioned this: what about the millions of people, every year, who try to pray away lethal diseases? When a method of curing is ostensibly 0.00000000001% successful I think it's safe to say that it's a gargantuan waste of time. In fact you'll probably have better luck mixing random junk and eating it, and seeing if that cures you.

In a museum in Constantinople I saw pieces of wood that were indisputably part of the cross on which Jesus was crucified. They also had thorns from his crown.

In Cologne, Germany, I saw the tombs of the three kings that visited Jesus in Bethlehem.

In Loreto, Italy, I saw the house where Joseph and Mary once lived. It was "flown" to Italy by angels wanting to protect it from the ravages of the Crusades.

All these wondrous things were sanctioned and sanctified by a archdiocese in one place or the other. It did not matter to them that the mother of Constantine was driven into a religious frenzy and went to the Holy Land and miraculously located many relics directly from the events within the life of Jesus. This was more than 300 years later mind you, but that didn't seem to hamper the rush to claim them as legitimate.

It did not matter that the Bible never identifies the kings or where they were from and so how it is possible to now have their tombs remains a puzzle that lies somewhere between the mysteries of the church and the grand profit from hordes of tourists.

While the house at Loreto defies all human logic, it has been visited by several Popes who blessed it as indeed a holy relic.

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In a museum in Constantinople I saw pieces of wood that were indisputably part of the cross on which Jesus was crucified. They also had thorns from his crown.

In Cologne, Germany, I saw the tombs of the three kings that visited Jesus in Bethlehem.

In Loreto, Italy, I saw the house where Joseph and Mary once lived. It was "flown" to Italy by angels wanting to protect it from the ravages of the Crusades.

All these wondrous things were sanctioned and sanctified by a archdiocese in one place or the other. It did not matter to them that the mother of Constantine was driven into a religious frenzy and went to the Holy Land and miraculously located many relics directly from the events within the life of Jesus. This was more than 300 years later mind you, but that didn't seem to hamper the rush to claim them as legitimate.

It did not matter that the Bible never identifies the kings or where they were from and so how it is possible to now have their tombs remains a puzzle that lies somewhere between the mysteries of the church and the grand profit from hordes of tourists.

While the house at Loreto defies all human logic, it has been visited by several Popes who blessed it as indeed a holy relic.

If the church in the begining are trying to sell people the idea of their god they must show them something. These were a way of showing the masses that God and Jesus were real and that the book they were putting together was too was real. They had no evidence to show as this new god never came to earth in front of the every day pagen in the street, the clergy had to drum up something to get them to listen. "Here is a piece of wood from the cross of Jesus! Do you see?!" "Here is some thorns from his crown of thorns! Do you see?!!" "Here is the house that Joseph and Mary lived in proving Jesus is real! Do you see?!! If you don't have any evidence you invent some. In order to misslead people you have to show them something to believe in. Remember the Snake Oil salesmen from the past? Evidence My dear Watson, Evidence................."Do you see?!!" (The Red Dragon)

Edited by Rocketgirl33
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Spontaneous remission in Cancer occurs in believers and non-believers alike.

Depending on the type of Cancer, spontaneous remission rates have been measured at a rate as high as 22%.

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If the church in the begining are trying to sell people the idea of their god they must show them something. These were a way of showing the masses that God and Jesus were real and that the book they were putting together was too was real. They had no evidence to show as this new god never came to earth in front of the every day pagen in the street, the clergy had to drum up something to get them to listen. "Here is a piece of wood from the cross of Jesus! Do you see?!" "Here is some thorns from his crown of thorns! Do you see?!!" "Here is the house that Joseph and Mary lived in proving Jesus is real! Do you see?!! If you don't have any evidence you invent some. In order to misslead people you have to show them something to believe in. Remember the Snake Oil salesmen from the past? Evidence My dear Watson, Evidence................."Do you see?!!" (The Red Dragon)

But don't forget that in the absence of evidence, they invented faith. The Old Testament is three times longer than the New Testament but it uses the word faith only two times. Don't even try to count how many times it appears in the New Testament simply because there is, to this day, no evidence that any part of it is true.

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Well,I don't know about this woman's case, but we have a friend who finally got a kidney transplant. He has waited for one for a long time, and finally got it .I try to pray to Jesus and the Holy Spirit all the time.I think prayer can help in many cases.Why everyone isn't healed or helped by prayer i don't know. Maybe someday we will find out the answers when we die. I try not to dwell on such things for one could go mad trying to figure it out.

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Well,I don't know about this woman's case, but we have a friend who finally got a kidney transplant. He has waited for one for a long time, and finally got it .I try to pray to Jesus and the Holy Spirit all the time.I think prayer can help in many cases.Why everyone isn't healed or helped by prayer i don't know. Maybe someday we will find out the answers when we die. I try not to dwell on such things for one could go mad trying to figure it out.

Youre not saying this case of a more than likely inevitable kidney transplant is the work of a prayer though, are you?

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I got shot down on these forums about 6 months back for claiming faith and the placebo effect are the same thing. I also got shot down for saying they work on more than just health and that your expectations in life alter reality.

I totally agree. I often played around with the thought that we may be able to alter our own reality with thoughts, expectations and beliefs. But aside from that, our body and mind are so closely connected that when our energy system is disturbed, it can have negative effects. In my humble opinion, certain negative thoughts and memories can have a negative effect on the body and the other way around as well. The mind is so powerful that it can heal the body and if the belief in healing is strong, why wouldn't it work?

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Very true, and it also encourages people to believe God can heal them. I've mentioned this story here before, but I had a friend whose mother had breast cancer and fueled by stories like these and some other influences I'm not really sure of, she kept it hidden from her family and tried to pray herself well. This worked for others like this lady, so why not her, right? She didn't tell her family because they would have forced her to seek medical attention, and not putting full faith and trust in God and prayer by looking elsewhere (medical treatment), would she believed interfere with the healing powers of God by showing doubt. So when it finally failed, she told her family, but the cancer had advanced much further, and her survival chances were lessened by the amount of time lost she'd spent keeping it secret and praying. So sure, it seems that it's no bigs if this woman believes God heals her, but there's also a message this sends out to other people, who are afraid and desperate for their life, looking for a miracle who will buy into this, and sometimes with detrimental outcomes.

Not to mention these same 'type' of people may one day deny their child medical care over prayer.

Prayer is basically the equivalent of doing nothing, whilst pretending to do something.

It's a very dangerous idea to even consider .

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I totally agree. I often played around with the thought that we may be able to alter our own reality with thoughts, expectations and beliefs. But aside from that, our body and mind are so closely connected that when our energy system is disturbed, it can have negative effects. In my humble opinion, certain negative thoughts and memories can have a negative effect on the body and the other way around as well. The mind is so powerful that it can heal the body and if the belief in healing is strong, why wouldn't it work?

IMO One biology class would clear up all the errors in understanding in this post .

For Ex: Following your logic babies give themselves cancer and aids and what not., therefore can cure themselves with positive thoughts.

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This is the thread that wouldn't die! Prayer does not work. It does as much good as if you prayed to a bedpost. Lets just look at the whole picture. Here is an example: Mrs. A lives in a trailer court. Mrs. A goes to church every sunday and always gives money and prays every day without fail. Mrs. A has many neighbors and they attend the same church and thay to pray every day and love god just as much as Mrs.A. On afternoon a tornado comes through the trailer court wiping out all the houses but one, Mrs.A. She is on the evening news, and says, "When I saw the tornado coming I got down on my knees and prayed to god and it was like his hand just came down and covered my whole house and he saved my life!" My very next question is, "Why?" Next we have Mr and Mrs. B. they have a 4 year old little boy. One day while they are in church praying to god, the 4 year old slips outside unnoticed while everyone else prays and sings to god. Mr and Mrs B finish and soon realize their 4 year old is missing. Soon a massive manhunt througtout the county is underway. The next night on the local news Mr and Mrs B are sending out a plea for the safe return of their 4year old son. Several days later and 3 massive prayer groups later, little boy 4 year old is found along side of the road in the country side. They discover that his abductor has kept him alive for several days rapeing him often and there is also sings of torture. My next question is "Why?"

Why would god listen to the prayers of only one person in the trailer park and let the others die? What is so special about her that he should only listen to her? And then we have 4 year old boy. Thousands of people prayed for him, thousands,and more than once. So where was god while he was being tortured and raped repetedly for days? Why? If god chose's to save an old woman from a tumor but in the same breath allowys a 4 year old to be raped and tortured, well that is a horrible god who clearly is not answering prayers! People want to jump up and down and celibrate when it appears that god answered a prayer,but say

nothing when he does not. And I will just puke if someone says that god has his reasons and we should not question him, then shame on them! Its gods plan, thats a cop out! Prayer is silly and does no good for anyone. If someone gets better while someone is praying for them then it is probably coinsedence!(spelling!)

Rocketgirl B)

Sorry, this is kind of strong but thats how i see things.

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For Ex: Following your logic babies give themselves cancer and aids and what not.,

Who the heck said this garbage??

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Because if SHE believes that God saves HER, it implies that God did NOT save all of the other thousands of people. How is that so hard to follow?

Put yourself in her shoes...think of life suffering from cancer.......you holdfaith in god, you pray non stop to be cured... then one day you find it's all gone.... Shot in the dark here but due to your faith in god, you will think god did it....( remember I did say put yourself in her shoes)... so you then are amazed and thankful...it is overwhelming to say the least... you can hardly believe you got your prayers answered... so tell me are you gonna sit there and go on about everyone else? OE are you gonna be thankful that you got cured and let it be?

So what if she believes god did it...I can't see how this causes harm

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So what if she believes god did it...I can't see how this causes harm

Cause it gives others false hopes based on ignorance and fear. Their weaken state makes them easy prey for the vultures of faith to try and convert them using these nonsense cases of the "healing power of prayer". It's sick and it's wrong.

Not only that but it hampers our understanding of the world. I mean really, these statistics didn't come out of no where. Her chances of survival were near zero, meaning these statistics were based off other cases and predictions.

There are some things medical science can't explain

Of course there isn't. But for people to claim god did it, I would like to see their evidence as proof. Just because it can't be explained doesn't mean it falls to "god did it!!.

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The fact that someone does recover in such a way, does mean there is a mystery - something beyond our understanding at the moment.

Not trying to say "it must be god", but I am thankful when it does happen -- however it happens.

Sad that such a great occurrence can create such a divisive conversation. It does point to how religion can often be about pushing a belief down someone's throat. It's really just enough to say what you believe, and if others disagree -- is it really of consequence given that someone's life in this world has been extended ?

My belief is that if there is a God that created all of this, surely he doesn't need me to argue he exists.

I kind of believe that this world is not about God, but about us and our relationships.

How we handle each situation often creates a better or worse situation.

Seeking personal enlightenment to try and improve the life of others has a pure motive, so although it might even be fruitless -- the heart was in the right place. If someone prays for me, and it does no good whatsoever -- I still am thankful that they took that time. Like taking the time to send a get well card.

Unfortunately, the motive often seems to be somewhat less pure when it comes to conversations like these. It's about being right, knowledgeable.. etc.

Man has a great history of being wrong about things, even while being completely sure we were right. In Love there is no right or wrong, cause your motive was not about you being right, but about helping someone when they need help.

When a child fold his hands to pray for you, you know it's from the heart. Whether there is a God or not, you know that kid's heart is in the right place -- and that's not the time to tell them there is no God and they are wasting their time.

Whatever makes that child fold his hands -- that's what I want to learn more about.

I think it's Love. Not a religion, not a scientific equation. He probably learned to fold his hands at church, but the emotion that led him to choose to do it in the first place has nothing to do with religion or science.

We have people walking around with grudges not talking to their children that chose a different path in life than they wished. Sons and daughters that haven't talked to their parents in decades because they didn't want to be told what to do. Nations

fighting one against the other for plots of land and religious reasons. All trying to be "right". and... people arguing on forums about whether or not there is a God.

Politics give me a headache, and mostly because it's obvious that neither side of the aisle "really" cares about what they are saying except in terms of how it profits them.

Same here... What's the end result ?

A true unexplained mystery!

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Cause it gives others false hopes based on ignorance and fear. Their weaken state makes them easy prey for the vultures of faith to try and convert them using these nonsense cases of the "healing power of prayer". It's sick and it's wrong.

Not only that but it hampers our understanding of the world. I mean really, these statistics didn't come out of no where. Her chances of survival were near zero, meaning these statistics were based off other cases and predictions.

Of course there isn't. But for people to claim god did it, I would like to see their evidence as proof. Just because it can't be explained doesn't mean it falls to "god did it!!.

While I agree with you, I am forced to think of something else when I hear of "miracles" like this. Can we begin to imagine how many thousands of prayers came out of the concentration camps? And those prayers came from God's favorite people. But six million were not answered. So if the few thousand that survived wanted to claim that it was because of a miracle or that God had answered their prayers, could we give validity to that claim?

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The fact that someone does recover in such a way, does mean there is a mystery - something beyond our understanding at the moment.

Not trying to say "it must be god", but I am thankful when it does happen -- however it happens.

Sad that such a great occurrence can create such a divisive conversation. It does point to how religion can often be about pushing a belief down someone's throat. It's really just enough to say what you believe, and if others disagree -- is it really of consequence given that someone's life in this world has been extended ?

My belief is that if there is a God that created all of this, surely he doesn't need me to argue he exists.

I kind of believe that this world is not about God, but about us and our relationships.

How we handle each situation often creates a better or worse situation.

Seeking personal enlightenment to try and improve the life of others has a pure motive, so although it might even be fruitless -- the heart was in the right place. If someone prays for me, and it does no good whatsoever -- I still am thankful that they took that time. Like taking the time to send a get well card.

Unfortunately, the motive often seems to be somewhat less pure when it comes to conversations like these. It's about being right, knowledgeable.. etc.

Man has a great history of being wrong about things, even while being completely sure we were right. In Love there is no right or wrong, cause your motive was not about you being right, but about helping someone when they need help.

When a child fold his hands to pray for you, you know it's from the heart. Whether there is a God or not, you know that kid's heart is in the right place -- and that's not the time to tell them there is no God and they are wasting their time.

Whatever makes that child fold his hands -- that's what I want to learn more about.

I think it's Love. Not a religion, not a scientific equation. He probably learned to fold his hands at church, but the emotion that led him to choose to do it in the first place has nothing to do with religion or science.

We have people walking around with grudges not talking to their children that chose a different path in life than they wished. Sons and daughters that haven't talked to their parents in decades because they didn't want to be told what to do. Nations

fighting one against the other for plots of land and religious reasons. All trying to be "right". and... people arguing on forums about whether or not there is a God.

Politics give me a headache, and mostly because it's obvious that neither side of the aisle "really" cares about what they are saying except in terms of how it profits them.

Same here... What's the end result ?

A true unexplained mystery!

Ah yes, arguing is good for the soul though! And its not really arguing its more like opinioning, (thats a new word by the way!) and thats what we do here! How better to enrich your life and brain power but through conversations with others? There is no harm here and we each believe what we do and just want to show others why we believe the way we do. I try not to push my beliefs on others but rather to voice my opinion about the subject at hand. Today is prayer day and that is getting the full monty here! The picture you paint of the little boy folding his hands is quite beautiful and we all say "Oh how cute!" But is any one answering that prayer? I prayed to god a lot when I was growing up. I was a little girl folding my hands and praying to god. Do you know what I prayed for? I garantee it was not world peace! The first time my father broke my arm I was 6 yrs old. My mother told me that god answers all prayers. After the third time he broke one of my bones I asked my mom why god would not answer my prayers. She said, "Maybe he did but you did not like the answer." Wow.....What was god thinking? I still prayed and I still got broken bones.

Millions of little children folding their little hands and praying to god to make the pain stop. Some picture that is huh? Its just like that Santa Clause story, remember him? How many of the letters did he respond to? Prayer doesn't work for one reason, there is no god. People should instead try changing their own lives to be what they want them to be. Not asking an invisible unreal entity to change it for them. When I grew up I got out of that house and never looked back. God did not help me leave, I left on my own. I went on to have a messed up life for a little while until I figured out that hate was the worst drug on the market. It was not easy to purge the hate out of my heart and I worked at it every day. Iam 50 now and I have been hate free for many many years now. I have some awesome children that I raised with a loving hand and an understaning and compassionate heart. God never entered my home and I have an awesome family that I raised and love. People don't need to ask guidence from and entity that is not there. We are born with love in our hearts and souls already. Some people just loose sight of that for what ever reason, child abuse, sexual abuse ect..ect.

I know more christians that have messed up lives than non-christians. It is not what you pray to but it is how YOU want to live YOUR life. Love is the most powerful force on the planet but Iam sure it doesn't have anything to do with God. Just look at all the damage christianity has done over the centuries. You will get better results if you chose to change your own life and not ask a fairy tial to help you. So I do agree with you on the point of the love, but you have to take into account the subject at hand. Praying to no one there is not healthy and does not teach you to change your own world. If you don't like the way things are going then YOU have to change them not the fairy tail that is called God.

Rocketgirl B)

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Ah yes, arguing is good for the soul though! And its not really arguing its more like opinioning, (thats a new word by the way!) and thats what we do here! How better to enrich your life and brain power but through conversations with others? There is no harm here and we each believe what we do and just want to show others why we believe the way we do. I try not to push my beliefs on others but rather to voice my opinion about the subject at hand. Today is prayer day and that is getting the full monty here! The picture you paint of the little boy folding his hands is quite beautiful and we all say "Oh how cute!" But is any one answering that prayer? I prayed to god a lot when I was growing up. I was a little girl folding my hands and praying to god. Do you know what I prayed for? I garantee it was not world peace! The first time my father broke my arm I was 6 yrs old. My mother told me that god answers all prayers. After the third time he broke one of my bones I asked my mom why god would not answer my prayers. She said, "Maybe he did but you did not like the answer." Wow.....What was god thinking? I still prayed and I still got broken bones.

Millions of little children folding their little hands and praying to god to make the pain stop. Some picture that is huh? Its just like that Santa Clause story, remember him? How many of the letters did he respond to? Prayer doesn't work for one reason, there is no god. People should instead try changing their own lives to be what they want them to be. Not asking an invisible unreal entity to change it for them. When I grew up I got out of that house and never looked back. God did not help me leave, I left on my own. I went on to have a messed up life for a little while until I figured out that hate was the worst drug on the market. It was not easy to purge the hate out of my heart and I worked at it every day. Iam 50 now and I have been hate free for many many years now. I have some awesome children that I raised with a loving hand and an understaning and compassionate heart. God never entered my home and I have an awesome family that I raised and love. People don't need to ask guidence from and entity that is not there. We are born with love in our hearts and souls already. Some people just loose sight of that for what ever reason, child abuse, sexual abuse ect..ect.

I know more christians that have messed up lives than non-christians. It is not what you pray to but it is how YOU want to live YOUR life. Love is the most powerful force on the planet but Iam sure it doesn't have anything to do with God. Just look at all the damage christianity has done over the centuries. You will get better results if you chose to change your own life and not ask a fairy tial to help you. So I do agree with you on the point of the love, but you have to take into account the subject at hand. Praying to no one there is not healthy and does not teach you to change your own world. If you don't like the way things are going then YOU have to change them not the fairy tail that is called God.

Rocketgirl B)

Yes, I do hear you.

I am definitely not even making a statement on prayer itself. But the reason why a child choses to pray -- in any religion. Or even the reason why a child would choose to hug someone. It's not about the folding of the hands or the effectiveness of a prayer.

When you were beaten -- how you felt - that's what matters. You prayed for protection -- Likewise I wouldn't say -- You have no hope little girl, give up on that praying stuff. But I also would realize that prayer wasn't the solution to that problem.

The person that was hitting you, is the person that is to blame though. Not God -- whether you believe he is real or not.

My post wasn't really about prayer working or not -- I'd say there's probably more evidence that it doesn't work.

But it was about the value of some of the conversations that go on, and how it becomes personal to some. (not all) Is it really important that the world knows that prayer doesn't work ? It's probably not even able to be proven that it doesn't all the time. you know ?

But I do know, that a story like yours can touch someone's heart. It shows that it can be overcome by decisions. Someone who believes in God might say -- see God answered your prayer, it just took a while! --- i'm not saying that, just saying that you can see how the debate can just go wherever someone wants it to go. endless.

I am happy that you found your way out of all of that, and that you have a sense of Love. I am sorry that it had to happen to you at all, as it should never happen.

So unlike the debate that led nowhere, what you said just now -- showed a little bit of who you are and where you are from. I don't care what you believe, I can tell you are a loving person.

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Yes, I do hear you.

I am definitely not even making a statement on prayer itself. But the reason why a child choses to pray -- in any religion. Or even the reason why a child would choose to hug someone. It's not about the folding of the hands or the effectiveness of a prayer.

When you were beaten -- how you felt - that's what matters. You prayed for protection -- Likewise I wouldn't say -- You have no hope little girl, give up on that praying stuff. But I also would realize that prayer wasn't the solution to that problem.

The person that was hitting you, is the person that is to blame though. Not God -- whether you believe he is real or not.

My post wasn't really about prayer working or not -- I'd say there's probably more evidence that it doesn't work.

But it was about the value of some of the conversations that go on, and how it becomes personal to some. (not all) Is it really important that the world knows that prayer doesn't work ? It's probably not even able to be proven that it doesn't all the time. you know ?

But I do know, that a story like yours can touch someone's heart. It shows that it can be overcome by decisions. Someone who believes in God might say -- see God answered your prayer, it just took a while! --- i'm not saying that, just saying that you can see how the debate can just go wherever someone wants it to go. endless.

I am happy that you found your way out of all of that, and that you have a sense of Love. I am sorry that it had to happen to you at all, as it should never happen.

So unlike the debate that led nowhere, what you said just now -- showed a little bit of who you are and where you are from. I don't care what you believe, I can tell you are a loving person.

That was an awesome post thanks. I do agree with you about the love. Like I said, I believe that is something we are all born with and how we are treated by mothers, fathers, or really, any one we look up to as a child can either destroy or create. As a mother I have discovered so much about children that I now understand my own childhood better, and being a mohter has made me a better person and helped me to heal and erase the hate. I will tell you this though, there is no greater let down than to one day realize there really isn't any body listening. The debate about god will be one that goes on forever and I have learned a lot from the folks here and I enjoy hitting the ball over the net with them! Cyber Tennis! A lot of us at the UM site like to share our opinions with each other and sometimes it does seen like we are "dukeing it out" but we are all adults, even the very young ones! and we all try to respect others while we banter back and forth. I can tell that you will be a very nice asset to the UM comunity and so I will give you my Welcome aboard and good to have you here. I hope to converse with you again, I like your mind and you showed your heart as well with how you handle yourself and your words that are the tell tell signs of a wise and understanding person. Thank you for this, you have made a friend.

Rocketgirl B)

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So what about the millions of people who prayed but still died? By now I think it's clear that prayers don't work, at least when it comes to curing diseases, but people somehow still believe it works. Eh.

Edited by Dasmian
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So what about the millions of people who prayed but still died? By now I think it's clear that prayers don't work, at least when it comes to curing diseases, but people somehow still believe it works. Eh.

Miracles become cheap and find their glory only in the heads of those who believe that we live in a world where all good events are accredited to God and all misfortunes are caused by humans,

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Miracles become cheap and find their glory only in the heads of those who believe that we live in a world where all good events are accredited to God and all misfortunes are caused by humans,

But you forgot about Satan! Got to give the devil his dues! Also, miracles are not so cheap! People pay good money for them! Just look at the other thread on the this subject. Seems the tv people are back and looking for that paycheck in the sky! :w00t:

Rocketgirl B)

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But you forgot about Satan! Got to give the devil his dues! Also, miracles are not so cheap! People pay good money for them! Just look at the other thread on the this subject. Seems the tv people are back and looking for that paycheck in the sky! :w00t:

Rocketgirl B)

Forget Satan? Never! It is just that I think any good Christian would be praying for Satan as much as possible. After all, he's the one who needs it most.

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Forget Satan? Never! It is just that I think any good Christian would be praying for Satan as much as possible. After all, he's the one who needs it most.

You know, I often wonered about that. If Satan is a creation of gods, then if he asked god for forgiveness and truely ment it, would he be forgiven and go to heaven? He seems to be so busy these days with misleading all those poor souls though. :devil:

Rocketgirl B)

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You know, I often wonered about that. If Satan is a creation of gods, then if he asked god for forgiveness and truely ment it, would he be forgiven and go to heaven? He seems to be so busy these days with misleading all those poor souls though. :devil:

Rocketgirl B)

it must be remembered that we have heard one side of the story. God has written all the books.

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