Ground Zero Mosque

[XIV]

I agree, but what it SHOULD be about is the insensitivity towards the families that lost loved ones and friends in these murders.

What is ignorant is making this issue about Islam, or muslims, rather then what it is about. It is about these muslim developers purposefully wanting to build as close as possible to the Ground Zero destruction area, and wanting to build as big a building as possible and to use foreign muslim investors to do it with. They will answer no questions about if they favor or oppose radical islam, and have links to many who do favor it. They say a lot of double talk when asked about their investors and they unable to explain how the building will be financed after it is built and how will run it.

This is not about a mosque, Islam or muslims. It is about a shady developer with a agenda to promote.

[Leah G.]

I agree, but what it SHOULD be about is the insensitivity towards the families that lost loved ones and friends in these murders.

No, all that aside, it's really about the terrorists rubbing our noses in our failer to protect ourselves and being able to further their agenda. Their agenda is to make America shariah compliant.

[Professor Buzzkill]

Look, im not a fan of the muslim religion or muslim countries for there mistreatment of women and other civil rights abuses. But isn't that what makes the west a better place to live? Because we can tolerate differnce in religion and not feel threatened by it?

Surely a disused building two blocks away has nothing to do with the twin towers terrorist attacks

[Leah G.]

Look, im not a fan of the muslim religion or muslim countries for there mistreatment of women and other civil rights abuses. But isn't that what makes the west a better place to live? Because we can tolerate differnce in religion and not feel threatened by it?

Surely a disused building two blocks away has nothing to do with the twin towers terrorist attacks

They were going to make it a historic building until the offer came in. Besides being planned by a person with terrorist connections. He's the guy that wants the US to be sheriah compliant. Shariah law is not just their law, it's their religion. We can tolerate other beliefs until it hurts people, these folks hurt people. It seems pretty black and white to me but you make up your own mind.

[ninjadude]

Because you said that the area around the WTC is mostly Muslim. To be blunt...prove it.

Ahh I see. You can't "prove" it by demographics. You can suggest it by the number of mosques that already exist nearby. There is one just 3 blocks from the WTC that has been there for 40 years. It's overflowing. There are several others in the area.

The Cordoba project is trying to serve their community. Something that is done in all of America by many organizations.

Let's put a face on the "them" in this argument.

Edited August 12, 2010 by ninjadude

[ninjadude]

It's pretty sacred for the people who lost loved ones there. I get the feeling that you don't know New York.

And yet the owners are going to re-build a building there...

You do know that fully a third of the people killed came from outside the US on 9/11. And a bunch of countries (like 26).

[ninjadude]

- how much time have you spent in New York?

Wouldn't be caught dead there. I have no desire to visit. But then my opinion is just as valid as all the right wing extremists who don't live there either - that are causing the hysteria.

Unless you are from another country and a victim of an unjust war, he has no sympathy, Siara.

I had sympathy. in 2001.

[ninjadude]

To many people who lost family and friends in the attack, it is sacred.

like the 710 people who died that were not US citizens? And some muslim.

Look at it like this, most people don't see a difference between Al Queida and Islam. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is.

Most people would be incredibly ignorant if that's the case. I don't have to accept stupidity and xenophophia when a little education will suffice.

[ninjadude]

It must be so freeing to be able to insult people so freely without even noticing you are doing it.

I asked and you didn't reply. You're attitude on this issue surprises me considering other posts.

[ninjadude]

Good for him. Exactly the right approach. A realization that the New York Muslim community (except for a few creeps) is independent from the terrorists.

His approach is so perfect I'm sure extremists on both sides are going to start p***ing and moaning about how horrible it is.

You're NOT serious!!! IT IS HORRIBLE. Come on. IF NY did this, every cult, religion, and fringe group on the planet would want to build something "near" the WTC to get NY to foot the bill. Think about what you are saying. You want the GOVERNMENT to PAY for RELIGION? I can't imagine a more clear cut example of a violation of the constitution and religion.

[ninjadude]

It over looks the site, don't be mistaken it is a big issue.

no it doesn't. You can't see WTC from there. Or vice versa.

[ninjadude]

It is about these muslim developers purposefully wanting to build as close as possible to the Ground Zero destruction area, and wanting to build as big a building as possible and to use foreign muslim investors to do it with.

You mean purposely close to existing muslim communities and mosques. That have been there for decades. If they wanted to build as big as possible, I'm sure 100 stories would fit the bill. But it's not. I have previously posted the developers intentions. Read up a few posts. It has nothing to do with what you say.

[ninjadude]

No, all that aside, it's really about the terrorists rubbing our noses in our failer to protect ourselves and being able to further their agenda. Their agenda is to make America shariah compliant.

Muslims are NOT terrorists. How can I get this though your head? And American citizens who are muslim are NOT terrorists. The jewish agenda is to make America kosher compliant. The Christian agenda is to enshrine the 10 commandments in the Congress. The fundie agenda is to take over the government by voting it in.

[ninjadude]

They were going to make it a historic building until the offer came in. Besides being planned by a person with terrorist connections.

1) they are not. Right wing extremists and islamophobes tried to "claim" it was historic. A burlington coat factory!! And the commission laughed it out.

2) the "person" you are refering to has no connections with terrorists. That is a smear. A right wing smear.

[Leah G.]

no it doesn't. You can't see WTC from there. Or vice versa.

Isn't it planned on being 13 stories? Wouldn't that overlook the twin towers sight?

[ninjadude]

Please don't get the idea that I'm muslim or a minority or any other crazy idea. I simply, and correctly, support that muslim communities constitutional right to practice their religion as they see fit. Just like anyone else in our country. And it ticks me off when smears, innuendo and lies are spewed about a group of Americans who happen to practice a different religion than the majority. Next you'll be after Japanese Shinto, or Buddists or Hindus in the US if they want to build a community center. The hysteria over this is wrong. It's unAmerican. It shows what the rest of the world already knows, that many Americans don't have a clue as to the actual freedoms they live under. There is NOTHING associated with terrorism and the Cordoba initiative. Muslims are not terrorists. This is very much like the racism that used to exist where people didn't want "those" people living near them or having good jobs or being president. It's sad that this kind of backward thinking still exists.

[J.B.]

It always will, Ninja. It's part of being human, sadly, and I'm sure a lot of the "enlightened" in other countries are hiding their own bigotry in the shadows.

As for the Mosque, I voted no to it based on the terms of the survey, which said a mosque on the Ground Zero site, not two blocks away.

People have the right to freedom of religion, but they also have the right to safety. They really should not have publicized this building. Drawing attention is only going to compromise safety.

Only reason I'm not against religious buildings completely is that such buildings centralize groups of like-minded people, making it easier to catch wind of conspiracy plots when they crop up.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

Please don't get the idea that I'm muslim or a minority or any other crazy idea. I simply, and correctly, support that muslim communities constitutional right to practice their religion as they see fit. Just like anyone else in our country. And it ticks me off when smears, innuendo and lies are spewed about a group of Americans who happen to practice a different religion than the majority. Next you'll be after Japanese Shinto, or Buddists or Hindus in the US if they want to build a community center. The hysteria over this is wrong. It's unAmerican. It shows what the rest of the world already knows, that many Americans don't have a clue as to the actual freedoms they live under. There is NOTHING associated with terrorism and the Cordoba initiative. Muslims are not terrorists. This is very much like the racism that used to exist where people didn't want "those" people living near them or having good jobs or being president. It's sad that this kind of backward thinking still exists.

Hello, Ninjadude.

I agree they have the legal right to build this community center/mosque, but I don't remember anyone saying anything about this place being legally wrong; only ethically. And I wouldn't say all opposition to this initiative is "right wing" or racist. Many people from all religions, political beliefs, ethnicities, and even nationalities have spoken out against it, including many victims of the 9/11 attacks and a [surprisingly] relatively large number of Muslims. I'd say it's pretty clear that it's far from "non-Muslims" and "right-wing bigots" being the only ones who oppose it.

[RazielKTB]

Why don't U build a center for all religions?

[Karlis]

Please don't get the idea that I'm muslim or a minority or any other crazy idea. I simply, and correctly, support that muslim communities constitutional right to practice their religion as they see fit. Just like anyone else in our country. And it ticks me off when smears, innuendo and lies are spewed about a group of Americans who happen to practice a different religion than the majority. Next you'll be after Japanese Shinto, or Buddists or Hindus in the US if they want to build a community center. The hysteria over this is wrong. It's unAmerican. It shows what the rest of the world already knows, that many Americans don't have a clue as to the actual freedoms they live under. There is NOTHING associated with terrorism and the Cordoba initiative. Muslims are not terrorists. This is very much like the racism that used to exist where people didn't want "those" people living near them or having good jobs or being president. It's sad that this kind of backward thinking still exists.

Hi Ninja -- I'm somewhat interested in your statement here, that, "Muslims are not terrorists".

This thread revolves around the 'Ground Zero' issue, so I'm asking you if you agree that every single one of the people involved in those attacks was Muslim? If all of those attackers were Muslims, then those terrorists were Muslims,obviously.

That said; not all Muslims are terrorists, *but* it would not be far off the truth to say that most terrorists working against the Western World today *are* Muslims.

Your thoughts?

Karlis

[Karlis]

Muslims are NOT terrorists. How can I get this though your head? And American citizens who are muslim are NOT terrorists. The jewish agenda is to make America kosher compliant. The Christian agenda is to enshrine the 10 commandments in the Congress. The fundie agenda is to take over the government by voting it in.

Ninja, you forgot to mention that the Muslim agenda is to bring sharia law into the USA.

Regards,

Karlis

[Karlis]

I asked and you didn't reply. You're attitude on this issue surprises me considering other posts.

Ninja, you wrote this to Aquatus -- but I'll put in my thoughts, for what they're worth.

Ninjadude, I think Aquatus has given up in sheer frustration to make you understand how you have implied that he is an islamaphobe; ie., a bigot.

I’ll try to go back to where it began; in this post by Aquatus, where he answers your post. This is where you are *subtly implying* that Aquatus is an islamaphobe:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=187019&st=180&p=3525491entry3525491

In this post one of Aquatus’ sentences was: “They are not even objecting to the existence of the cultural center”.

Now that is a neutral and sensible statement, Ninja. However, *this is where* you took a subtle swipe at Aquatus in your next post, when you replied as follows

Your reply to Aquatus includes this excerpt:

[Aquatus wrote to you]

They are not even objecting to the existence of the cultural center.

again. there are many islamophobes who do. Some even here on UM.

Aquatus then posted:

Ninjadude, you can converse with me once you apologize for your inferrence of bigotry.

And you articulated pure innocence on your part, and you ignored what you yourself had written to Aquatus:

eh? what in the world are you on about?

Aquatus replied to you as follows:

It must be so freeing to be able to insult people so freely without even noticing you are doing it.

Your reply was:

I asked and you didn't reply. You're attitude on this issue surprises me considering other posts.

And that is how matters now stand between you and Aquatus, Ninja. Can you see how you subtly branded Aquatus as an islamaphobe?

Ninja, you may decide to write that you never meant to include Aquatus in your broad statement that, "there are many islamophobes who do. Some even here on UM", but imo that would be up to you to decide.

Over to you,

Karlis

[Michelle]

Ahh I see. You can't "prove" it by demographics. You can suggest it by the number of mosques that already exist nearby. There is one just 3 blocks from the WTC that has been there for 40 years. It's overflowing. There are several others in the area.

The Cordoba project is trying to serve their community. Something that is done in all of America by many organizations.

Let's put a face on the "them" in this argument.

That in no way proves that the majority of the population in Battery Park City are Muslims, which was your claim.

As a matter of fact, a list of churches in the area would suggest otherwise.

http://newyork.citysearch.com/listings/battery-park-city/churches/7319_3801

Edited August 12, 2010 by Michelle

[Leah G.]

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0812/iran-claims-woman-facing-death-confessed/

This is what they do in their country and what shariah law is about. The same shariah law the guy in charge of building the mosque want the US to be compliant to.

[ninjadude]

People have the right to freedom of religion, but they also have the right to safety. They really should not have publicized this building. Drawing attention is only going to compromise safety.

By "they", you must be extremist conservatives. Because they are the only one's who publicized and make a big deal about it.

And are you saying that American citizens who are muslim are somehow in danger from these same extremist conservatives? At their existing mosque three blocks away? for 40 years?