Ground Zero Mosque

[Socio]

Looks like our imam-n-chief has put his two cents in;

t Ramadan Iftar dinner, Obama supports new mosque on private property near Ground Zero

This has to be the most appalling and atrocious act of anti Americanism ever perpetrated by a sitting US president. This is not just some accidental or off the cuff remark, it was premeditated and delivered at an extravagant Ramadan Iftar dinner. (A dinner that we the taxpayer paid for by the way)

Isn't the president hosting a Ramadan dinner ( on the taxpayer’s dime), supporting Muslims and the ground zero mosque at such an event a direct violation of the separation of Church and state'??

“Our capacity to show not merely tolerance, but respect to those who are different from us”

Show me ONE instance where Muslims were tolerant! ONE! The mere publication of a cartoon and they were ready to KILL!

This is nothing more than a revolting insult to the majority of Americans who view Ground Zero as hallowed ground and the backlash over it is mounting;

This is from MSNBC about the most left leaning Obama supporting news rag in existence;

Obama slammed, praised for backing NYC mosque

More;

Obama's Support for Ground Zero Mosque Draws Fire

Barack Obama's Ground Zero mosque plea will cost him and the Democrats votes

Edited August 14, 2010 by Socio

[Leah G.]

Looks like our imam-n-chief has put his two cents in;

t Ramadan Iftar dinner, Obama supports new mosque on private property near Ground Zero

This has to be the most appalling and atrocious act of anti Americanism ever perpetrated by a sitting US president. This is not just some accidental or off the cuff remark, it was premeditated and delivered at an extravagant Ramadan Iftar dinner. (A dinner that we the taxpayer paid for by the way)

Isn't the president hosting a Ramadan dinner ( on the taxpayer’s dime), supporting Muslims and the ground zero mosque at such an event a direct violation of the separation of Church and state'??

Show me ONE instance where Muslims were tolerant! ONE! The mere publication of a cartoon and they were ready to KILL!

This is nothing more than a revolting insult to the majority of Americans who view Ground Zero as hallowed ground and the backlash over it is mounting;

This is from MSNBC about the most left leaning Obama supporting news rag in existence;

Obama slammed, praised for backing NYC mosque

More;

Obama's Support for Ground Zero Mosque Draws Fire

Barack Obama's Ground Zero mosque plea will cost him and the Democrats votes

Dang! That man has got to go!!! Nov. 2, 2012 VOTE!!!! Well, that is if he doesn't take away our right to vote or there isn't voter fraud again. The way this guys going it may not take that long...

[Pseudo Intellectual]

I agree. Putting up a statue of Bin Laden at One World Trade Center would be indefensible.

Unless you're making the disgusting suggestion that a mosque is a monument to Bin Laden, I'm not sure what other point your analogy is supposed to make. Because I can assure you, Native Americans actually do allow Christian (i.e. the religion of the guy they despise) churches on reservations. Presumably they don't feel the entire religion is defined by one *******.

If a mosque was a monument to anybody, it would be a monument to Muhammad, who was clearly worse than bin Laden.

Why don't they build it somewhere else? If this building's purpose was truly to foster understanding between mainstream Muslims and the victims of 9/11, wouldn't the right thing to do be build the place somewhere else, especially since countless victims of the 9/11 attacks have made clear that this place would do nothing to heal our wounds, but would in fact be analogous to pouring salt on them?

The man behind the "Cordoba House" clearly has an agenda. One would think this is pretty obvious, since he's an Islamist, and Islamists aren't particularly interested in peace and understanding.

[Siara]

You're right, they do live in many countries. I didn't say Iran was the center of islam. The cordoba initiative is suspected and the founder has said he wants America to be sharia compliant. Please stop putting words down that I did not say and do some research and prove it to yourself.

Have you got links backing up your statement that the founder of Cordoba is into imposing sharia law here?

[The Silver Thong]

It's amazing that the "right" here are the ones that seem to hold so dear to the constitution want Obama to go against it. Seems some don't believe in private property or the freedom of religion. Who are the real traitors here. Obama stands true to the constitution and he is attacked by the right wingers. WTH do you guys want.

To me it seems the "right" wants to re write the constitution.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I don't remember anybody on the "Right" here saying people don't have the right to build the Ground Zero Mosque. They're simply saying they shouldn't build it. Do you know the difference between "don't have the legal right to build it" and "shouldn't build it"?

[questionmark]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I don't remember anybody on the "Right" here saying people don't have the right to build the Ground Zero Mosque. They're simply saying they shouldn't build it. Do you know the difference between "don't have the legal right to build it" and "shouldn't build it"?

The exact question is:

Should the building of a mosque be approved?

and by approved the OP naturally means the council as approving authority.

[Leah G.]

Have you got links backing up your statement that the founder of Cordoba is into imposing sharia law here?

I've posted a few already, do I need to keep posting them? Doesn't anyone look at them? Oh, I know, not everyone reads my posts and I guess it's up to me to keep proving my point time and time and time again. BRB, I'm going to look them up in my previous posts it may take a few minutes.

Posted Yesterday, 09:59 AM

Another source

Now there not working again. Sorry. But they did work.

This is what they do in their country and what shariah law is about. The same shariah law the guy in charge of building the mosque want the US to be compliant to.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Hatch

[questionmark]

I've posted a few already, do I need to keep posting them? Doesn't anyone look at them? Oh, I know, not everyone reads my posts and I guess it's up to me to keep proving my point time and time and time again. BRB, I'm going to look them up in my previous posts it may take a few minutes.

Posted Yesterday, 09:59 AM

Another source

Now there not working again. Sorry. But they did work.

This is what they do in their country and what shariah law is about. The same shariah law the guy in charge of building the mosque want the US to be compliant to.

And American Muslims (*2.3% of the population) don't do it in their country. So what is your point exactly?

[ninjadude]

. Because of him, a large portion of them were wiped out. I gaurantee, that most of the people in favor of this mosque, completely understand why the Native Americans feel the way they do.

our society was not WIPED out by a few terrorists on one day.

[J.B.]

She was asking for links that prove the guy is interested in imposing shariah law, not links explaining said evil law.

Also, if one of your links goes on the blink frequently, better to find a different link to information backing you up.

Edited August 14, 2010 by J.B.

[The Silver Thong]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I don't remember anybody on the "Right" here saying people don't have the right to build the Ground Zero Mosque. They're simply saying they shouldn't build it. Do you know the difference between "don't have the legal right to build it" and "shouldn't build it"?

You should have flipped back a page or two. I said I didn't agree with it but it was not my place to question the law about it as it is not yours. Opinion is a luxury your constitution is not.

My opinion of Islam is not a good one so please don;t think I'm sympathizing. I feel that Islam is a barbaric religion along with most others. It's the law of the land and that land is your land.

As far as Hatch goes he's a right paranoid individual to think Obama is about to give the OK to shariah law

[ninjadude]

And as you pointed out, the area where the mosque is planned is two blocks away from there...in Battery Park City.

Surely you don't think that only people from Battery Park City will be the only ones using the Community center? What about the neighborhoods adjacent?

There are no extant religious demographics that I can find. So there is no way to confirm it's a Muslim or non-muslim neighborhood. And by neighborhood, I do not necesarrily mean only political boundries.

The existing mosque three blocks from the WTC is always full. The mosque 12 blocks away is full as well. So I read. So they wanted to create a community center and small separate attached mosque. The idea is to do the same thing that the YMCA and Jewish community centers do. Do the same thing, being the highest form of flattery, this would seem a good thing.

[J.B.]

our society was not WIPED out by a few terrorists on one day.

No, but NYC - a place naturally full of anger to begin with - was hit by a small number of people from a warped version of the faith being discussed here. That's what? 19 lives traded to take down 3,000, as well as a major business center that was the symbol of the city? One symbol, anyway. That's a big enough insult in one city, to be sure.

Anyway, my only concern with this is safety. Keeping in mind that the radical right in this country seems to have been intensifying itself of late, over the last two years, there's a bigger risk of attacks now than there used to be. This big stink being made over the project will have backlash for all involved.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

You should have flipped back a page or two. I said I didn't agree with it but it was not my place to question the law about it as it is not yours. Opinion is a luxury your constitution is not.

My opinion of Islam is not a good one so please don;t think I'm sympathizing. I feel that Islam is a barbaric religion along with most others. It's the law of the land and that land is your land.

As far as Hatch goes he's a right paranoid individual to think Obama is about to give the OK to shariah law

Don't worry, I know what your views of Islam are.

And, to be fair to Hatch, Obama's advisor on Muslim affairs is a supporter of Sharia. I don't think Obama will legalize stoning homosexuals, for instance, but I'm sure he would be okay with optional Sharia courts for relatively non-serious matters such as inheritance and divorce. Don't they have such a system in the UK? And I believe they considered instituting a similar system in Canada a while back?

[ninjadude]

You are taking peoples comments and twisting them around, then you are adding your own embellishments, then you are accusing people of arguing your embellishments.

as I understand it, this is pretty much how posts are done on UM in the political forums. I'm not doing anything anyone else does not do.

As you can see, not only did I clearly point out when you had insulted me, I also proceeded to explain exactly why I disagreed with your statement. You are quite clearly in the wrong.

I did not insult you. And I'm sorry you think so.

I doubt that. I have no doubts that you believe that, or that you have convinced yourself of it, but I suspect that the truth is more likely that you share the same mindset as the imam of this mosque.

I most certainly do.

Park51 will be dedicated to pluralism, service, arts and culture, education and empowerment, appreciation for our city and a deep respect for our planet. Park51 will join New York to the world, offering a welcoming community center with multiple points of entry. With world-class facilities, a global scope and strong local roots, Park 51 will offer a friendly and accessible platform for conversations across our identities. source

To you, this is a political issue, and any human concerns need not apply.

true enough.

and I am not going to take formal action, because of a conflict of interest. I am, therefore, leaving this to the other mods.

formal action?!! for what? I did not insult you. I was not dishonest. I did not do any of the garbage you posted. I did not attack you personally. I apologized twice now for any perceived slight you may feel.

[questionmark]

Don't worry, I know what your views of Islam are.

And, to be fair to Hatch, Obama's advisor on Muslim affairs is a supporter of Sharia. I don't think Obama will legalize stoning homosexuals, for instance, but I'm sure he would be okay with optional Sharia courts for relatively non-serious matters such as inheritance and divorce. Don't they have such a system in the UK? And I believe they considered instituting a similar system in Canada a while back?

Hmmm... so if you don't want to allow Sharia in private matters to the Muslims are you also going to forbid community council rulings to Mormons and Amish and Rabbinical courts to the Jews?

[The Silver Thong]

Don't worry, I know what your views of Islam are.

And, to be fair to Hatch, Obama's advisor on Muslim affairs is a supporter of Sharia. I don't think Obama will legalize stoning homosexuals, for instance, but I'm sure he would be okay with optional Sharia courts for relatively non-serious matters such as inheritance and divorce. Don't they have such a system in the UK? And I believe they considered instituting a similar system in Canada a while back?

For one my opinion of religion is universal and your attempt at making it look slanderous is only insulting to you.

As far as shariah law goes I'll buy you season tickets to any park or sport you like if that happens.

The muslims here have done more than enough to make sure shariah law does not crop up.

Edited August 14, 2010 by The Silver Thong

[hetrodoxly]

If no one can see that it's insensitive and enough time hasn't passed (come back in 50 years) must be blind, the twin towers were destroyed in the name of Allah and the whole of Islam rejoiced at the news, the last words spoken as those planes hit the towers would have been 'Allahu Akbar' to hear them chanted every day from the minaret of this mosque would be a disgrace, it's Muslims showing America the middle finger.

[ninjadude]

No, but NYC - a place naturally full of anger to begin with - was hit by a small number of people from a warped version of the faith being discussed here. That's what? 19 lives traded to take down 3,000, as well as a major business center that was the symbol of the city? One symbol, anyway. That's a big enough insult in one city, to be sure.

Anyway, my only concern with this is safety. Keeping in mind that the radical right in this country seems to have been intensifying itself of late, over the last two years, there's a bigger risk of attacks now than there used to be. This big stink being made over the project will have backlash for all involved.

of the 3000 including 710 people from some 26 other countries. Including about 300 muslims. Certainly muslim extremists did indeed create terror. But ISLAM is not responsible. It did not insult NYC or America. The problem here is conflating Islam with radicals.

By safety I'm assuming your fearful of some right wing wacko taking a gun and doing something stupid. We should be and are IIRC monitoring these fringe groups and trying to fight ignorance.

[Leah G.]

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/05/911-mosque-imam-feisal-abdul-rauf-blames-christians-the-us-and-the-west-must-acknowledge-the-harm-th.html

I'm having a hard time finding articles to prove my point all of a sudden. Good thing I'm not a conspiracy nut. But I do find it very odd.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

Hmmm... so if you don't want to allow Sharia in private matters to the Muslims are you also going to forbid community council rulings to Mormons and Amish and Rabbinical courts to the Jews?

I suggest you read this.

For one my opinion of religion is universal and your attempt at making it look slanderous is only insulting to you.

Why would I be insulted by your views on Islam?

As far as shariah law goes I'll buy you season tickets to any park or sport you like if that happens.

It happened in Britain. It could happen anywhere else.

The muslims here have done more than enough to make sure shariah law does not crop up.

I know about the Canadian moderate Muslims who were opposed to the imposition of Sharia. In fact, weren't they crucial in defeating the push for Sharia in Canada?

[Mainpoint]

To build a mosque or not is up to the people developing their property.

Its a question of liberty freedom and the american way.

[ninjadude]

And, to be fair to Hatch, Obama's advisor on Muslim affairs is a supporter of Sharia. I don't think Obama will legalize stoning homosexuals, for instance, but I'm sure he would be okay with optional Sharia courts for relatively non-serious matters such as inheritance and divorce. Don't they have such a system in the UK? And I believe they considered instituting a similar system in Canada a while back?

None of those places is the US or operate under US law. Obama does not make law. Sharia is not all that different, as I understand it, from orthodox Jewish law. And even Christian fundies want the ten commandments and exact Bible verses to be the law of the US.

[XIV]

No, it is a matter of insensitivity and sensitivity.

To build a mosque or not is up to the people developing their property.

Its a question of liberty freedom and the american way.