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Ground Zero Mosque


Karlis
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Shold the mosque be approved? Or not approved?  

87 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the building of a mosque be approved?



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By the way, another reason to oppose the Mosque:

It is forbidden for Muslims to allow any non-Muslim to enter Al-Masjid Al-Haram in Makkah and its sacred precincts, because Allah says: (O ye who believe! The idolaters only are unclean. So let them not come near Al-Masjid Al-Haram (at Makkah) after this their year. If ye fear poverty (from the loss of their merchandise) Allah shall preserve you of His bounty if He will. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.) (At-Tawbah 9: 28)

Concerning other mosques, some Muslim jurists maintain that it is permissible for non-Muslims to enter them because there is nothing to indicate the unlawfulness of such act; others say that it is not permissible, by analogy to the case of Al-Masjid Al-Haram.

The correct view is that it is permissible if it serves the interests of Shari`ah or meets a valid need, such as if a non-Muslim needs to enter a mosque to hear something that may encourage him to embrace Islam, or because he needs to drink water, or the like. This is pursuant to the way of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) on this issue; he tied up (his prisoner) Thamaamah ibn Athal Al-Hanafi in the mosque before he became a Muslim, and the delegations of Thaqif and the Christians of Najran stayed in the mosque before they embraced Islam. Actually, many benefits were accrued from this: they were able to hear the speeches and sermons of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to see people praying and reciting the Qur’an, etc. (Fatawa Al-Lajnah Al-Da'imah - The Standing Committee for Islamic Research and Ifta’)

Therefore, if non-Muslims seek permission to enter the mosque in order to see how Muslims perform prayer, there is nothing wrong in that, as long as they have nothing with them that could defile the mosque, and their women are not dressed in a provocative fashion, or any other reason that bars them from entering the mosque. So they can enter and sit behind the Muslims to see how they pray.

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In other words, I smell lawsuits in the Mosque's future.

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Because they still hurt. They still feel the pain of the attack. They are not yet willing to forgive, but they are willing to live and let live. They don't want to tear down existing mosques. They don't even want the cultural center gone, even with the included prayer room, to be dissolved. All they are asking for is detente. Leave things as they are till the scar heals.

I'll bet money that 90% of the people so upset with this whole debockle have no idea there's already an existing one so close. Not to forget, too many people think all/most muslims are terrorists.

But not the right to built anywhere you please

Again, no one is objecting to them building a mosque. The only objection is to the location.

"You can do anything you want in this world, as long as you stay locked in your room."

That's not freedom.

Edited by lookingfortruth
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Did you even read any of the previous threads? The mosque is NOT being built at Ground Zero! It's two blocks away! Aren't there plans to have a reflecting pool as a memorial at the actual site? Two blocks away is NOT Ground Zero!

Then why the hell does the news and every place else keep on saying its building it on ground zero...so you're telling me they are blatantly lying on TV...because I heard that nnummerous times on tv BUILDING ON ground zero..on the other hand they could as always just be spouting misinformation. So I will have to raed it thank you, if that IS the case than I apologize and have no problem

IF it is on ground zero..then I have a problem, and yes they were suppose to build a memorial...haven't yet -.-

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Then why the hell does the news and every place else keep on saying its building it on ground zero...so you're telling me they are blatantly lying on TV...because I heard that nnummerous times on tv BUILDING ON ground zero..on the other hand they could as always just be spouting misinformation. So I will have to raed it thank you, if that IS the case than I apologize and have no problem

IF it is on ground zero..then I have a problem, and yes they were suppose to build a memorial...haven't yet -.-

It is two blocks away, and it's not even a mosque, it's a islamic community center. That happens to have a mosque in it. The only reason people call it the "ground zero mosque" is to get other people, who will most likely never look up where it really is, to be against it.

Edited by Odin11
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Then why the hell does the news and every place else keep on saying its building it on ground zero...so you're telling me they are blatantly lying on TV...because I heard that nnummerous times on tv BUILDING ON ground zero..on the other hand they could as always just be spouting misinformation. So I will have to raed it thank you, if that IS the case than I apologize and have no problem

IF it is on ground zero..then I have a problem, and yes they were suppose to build a memorial...haven't yet -.-

It's blocks away from Ground Zero. There is a massive campaign against Muslims, in particular Arab Muslims, being waged by someone over there. Not pointing any elbows but which country benefits most from increased US hatred of Arabs? and which country has massive influence in US media?

You have a fair idea this is the case when you see idiots like the racist ADL spewing their nonsense.

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The FACT that anybody still believes that MUSLIMS were responsible for 9-11 blows my mind.!!

The Fact that Muslims died in 9-11 too !

The FACT that America is so scared of Muslims also blows my mind.

What is the death toll of dead Muslims thanks to America and the jews compared to dead Americans and jews ? Maybe that`s why ?

The Fact that nobody would have said a word if they wanted to build a church or especially a synagogue - ( anti semetic you would have been called and it seems that's a crime these days ). ? !

The FACT that the israelis run around the world committing crime everyday seeking retribution for WW-2 still today and people are scared of Muslims ?

The Fact still this sort of hatred and fear mongering is happening in the GOOD oL USA in 2010 is very very sad !!

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The Fact still this sort of hatred and fear mongering is happening in the GOOD oL USA in 2010 is very very sad !!

Indeed.

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It's blocks away from Ground Zero. There is a massive campaign against Muslims, in particular Arab Muslims, being waged by someone over there. Not pointing any elbows but which country benefits most from increased US hatred of Arabs? and which country has massive influence in US media?

You have a fair idea this is the case when you see idiots like the racist ADL spewing their nonsense.

You came this close to saying it <-->

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It's blocks away from Ground Zero. There is a massive campaign against Muslims, in particular Arab Muslims, being waged by someone over there. Not pointing any elbows but which country benefits most from increased US hatred of Arabs? and which country has massive influence in US media?

You have a fair idea this is the case when you see idiots like the racist ADL spewing their nonsense.

Oh dear. Everything is an Israeli conspiracy to you? :w00t:

Edited by Pseudo Intellectual
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While a high-profile battle rages over a mosque near ground zero in Manhattan, heated confrontations have also broken out in communities across the country where mosques are proposed for far less hallowed locations. Keep reading...

Just supports my point that this is due to religious intollerance and misinformation.

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Just supports my point that this is due to religious intolerance and misinformation.

The WTC mosque controversy is such a special case that I don't know if this is relevant to this thread but, regarding "religious tolerance" and America's general attitude towards Islam...

People, including me, can't tell where Arab culture leaves off and Islam begins. From what I understand, the abysmal treatment of women is an Arab thing, not an Islamic thing. But I certainly don't want that attitude towards women imported into the US. Why should I want a community of voters in America who believe that I'm a second class citizen? It would be absurd and self destructive for me to want that.

Sometimes I get the feeling that people who press for religious tolerance ignore the fact that these religions aren't tolerant themselves. It's extremely annoying to hear people lecture me about tolerance when I'm supposed to demonstrate my tolerance by encouraging a culture that isn't tolerant of me. To be honest, Arab culture seems to stand for everything I've spent the last 3 decades trying to change in America.

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Ninjadude: please explain to me why I should feel guilty about not fostering a culture that thinks my grand daughters don't really need education and should spend their lives at home serving "their men". Please tell me why I should invite voters into my community who think that my body is sinful and indecent and ought to be covered up at all times? I admit it-- I don't like this culture.

Ninjadud, would you accuse a black person of being intolerant because he doesn't want to foster a culture that supports apartheid in America? Your accusations that we are behaving poorly by being intolerant go against common sense.

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It's extremely annoying to hear people lecture me about tolerance when I'm supposed to demonstrate my tolerance by encouraging a culture that isn't tolerant of me. To be honest, Arab culture seems to stand for everything I've spent the last 3 decades trying to change in America.

The point is we are tolerant and they are not, because of that we should not change our ways because if we all are intolerant then they have won by us assuming their culture of intolerance.

And yes, it severely gets my gout when somebody from Saudi tries to lecture me on tolerance, but being tolerant I don't show it.

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The point is we are tolerant and they are not, because of that we should not change our ways because if we all are intolerant then they have won by us assuming their culture of intolerance.

Well not meaning to be simplistic but if my culture changes so that women are treated more poorly, I lose. Or my daughters-in-law, or my grand daughters. I guess I'm supposed to show how multicultural and accepting I am by lying down, smiling and saying, "kick me again, kick me again".

I admit it- I'm intolerant. I'm intolerant of being a second class citizen.

Edited by Siara
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The WTC mosque controversy is such a special case that I don't know if this is relevant to this thread but, regarding "religious tolerance" and America's general attitude towards Islam...

People, including me, can't tell where Arab culture leaves off and Islam begins. From what I understand, the abysmal treatment of women is an Arab thing, not an Islamic thing. But I certainly don't want that attitude towards women imported into the US. Why should I want a community of voters in America who believe that I'm a second class citizen? It would be absurd and self destructive for me to want that.

The problem with Islam is it is 20% religion and 80% political ideology, and in its current incarnation cannot coexist in the Western world simply because the only way their faith can exist in its purest form is to not to exist alongside the government, but BE the government.

The mistake both the US, and Western Europe have made was allowing it to have the classification of religion. We should have given them the choice either strip out all the political ideology and be granted the classification of religion and all the rights pursuant to it, or not and become classified as a political activist group which is what it really is.

Here is another way to look at it;

Say you have a person that is 20% Native American who wants to be classified as "Pure" Native American so he can reap any and all benefits and rights that come from it. This same person has made no bones about wanting to become the ONLY ONE TRUE Native American and will use any and all benefits and rights that come from being classified as one to achieve it.

Do you grant this person "Pure" Native American classification?

Edited by Socio
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Well not meaning to be simplistic but if my culture changes so that women are treated more poorly, I lose. Or my daughters-in-law, or my grand daughters. I guess I'm supposed to show how multicultural and accepting I am by lying down, smiling and saying, "kick me again, kick me again".

And you will loose your culture because 2.3% of the US citizens are Muslims and .002% Haredi Jews (plus about .1% other lunatics) who do not allow female freedom? Will you loose your culture because any of the above are given their right to talk to their imaginary friend where and when they see fit?

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And you will loose your culture because 2.3% of the US citizens are Muslims and .002% Haredi Jews (plus about .1% other lunatics) who do not allow female freedom? Will you loose your culture because any of the above are given their right to talk to their imaginary friend where and when they see fit?

They are into repressing me, I don't like them. Sorry questionmark, but it isn't a complex philosophical issue for me.

This doesn't mean I'm ready to flush their civil liberties down the drain. As I've stated many times on this thread I have no problem with mosques being in New York and I think the city of New York should be discussing this issue out in the open with members of NY's Islamic community. I don't think it's appropriate to let some Arab financier from the middle east brag about perpetrating "financial jihad" in America and then build a giant complex right where thousands of Americans were killed in the name of Islam (even though terrorist Islam isn't the same thing as real Koran Islam). I think it's reasonable to find another place in Manhattan for the center.

That being said, I'd also like to say that I don't like the politically correct attitude that I'm supposed to admire a culture that treats women badly. I'm tired of reading that "I don't understand them" and "Americans have a lot of false information about Islam". I've traveled in those countries and from what I've observed and experienced personally, my "beliefs" in this regard are correct.

Edited by Siara
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They are into repressing me, I don't like them. Sorry questionmark, but it isn't a complex philosphical issue for me.

Could you explain to me how THEY are repressing you? Just because they exist?

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Could you explain to me how THEY are repressing you? Just because they exist?

Well... I've had personal experiences with physical harassment. Are you implying that they are a live-and-let-live culture? Give me a break. I have a friend who heads a women's literacy organization (illegal) in Sudan. Try reading "Reading Lolita in Tehran". It gives a good picture of the situation (though more sophisticated than the Sudanese situation.)

Questionmark, when I was a 1st grader my family lived in a rural town in South Carolina. I remember the teacher going around the room asking each boy what he wanted to be when he grew up. She didn't ask the girls. Why bother? I don't go for sexist cultures. I know my attitude is old-fashioned. I don't care.

Edited by Siara
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They are into repressing me, I don't like them. Sorry questionmark, but it isn't a complex philosophical issue for me.

Actually the converse is true *Snip* .

Freedom and Liberty are under attack.

Edited by Karlis
deleted personl "jibe"
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Well... I've had personal experiences with physical harassment. Are you implying that they are a live-and-let-live culture? Give me a break.

Try reading "Reading Lolita in Tehran". It gives a good picture of the situation.

I have seen star wars does not mean that the clones are gonna attack any time soon.

Edited by Mainpoint
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Well, this is another reason to not build the Mosque, because since that means that the Mosque is their to thumb its nose at NY and the people who died in 911, then people are going to be thumbing their noses at it by doing things like this:

Gregg Gutfeld Says He Plans to Open Gay Bar Next to Mosque

CANVAS STAFF REPORTS) - Gregg Gutfeld, host of the FOX News show "Red Eye," announced on his show Monday that he would be opening up a gay bar for Islamic men right next door to the highly controversial mosque being built near Ground Zero.

Gutfeld also posted his plans on his blog, The Daily Gut , "I'm announcing tonight, that I am planning to build and open the first gay bar that caters not only to the west, but also Islamic gay men. To best express my sincere desire for dialogue, the bar will be situated next to the mosque Park51, in an available commercial space. This is not a joke. I've already spoken to a number of investors, who have pledged their support in this bipartisan bid for understanding and tolerance."

Gutfeld said his reasoning for opening the gay bar is twofold: first, to break down barriers of homosexual phobia, as the Muslim faith does not accept the homosexual lifestyle. And second, to make a point that if Muslim's are truly building the mosque for outreach, then they can understand why he is opening up his gay bar to reach out to Muslim gay men.

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While this might seem funny at first, when you get to thinking about it, it really isn't. Because Muslims are easily offended at things like this and will use violence against him out of the feeling of being provoked if they are offended by his bar.

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Well, this is another reason to not build the Mosque, because since that means that the Mosque is their to thumb its nose at NY and the people who died in 911, then people are going to be thumbing their noses at it by doing things like this:

My link

While this might seem funny at first, when you get to thinking about it, it really isn't. Because Muslims are easily offended at things like this and will use violence against him out of the feeling of being provoked if they are offended by his bar.

I guess that is just too bad for the offended Muslims.

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CANVAS STAFF REPORTS) - Gregg Gutfeld, host of the FOX News show "Red Eye," announced on his show Monday that he would be opening up a gay bar for Islamic men right next door to the highly controversial mosque being built near Ground Zero.

Oh I LOVE it.

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DELETED BY SIARA- off topic.

Edited by Siara
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