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Karlis

Ground Zero Mosque

Shold the mosque be approved? Or not approved?  

87 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the building of a mosque be approved?



637 posts in this topic

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Leah G.

I'd be in favor of a mosque in that spot if they surround it with adult book stores, bars and strip clubs!

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Michelle

I'd be in favor of a mosque in that spot if they surround it with adult book stores, bars and strip clubs!

:lol: You little devil...

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Leah G.

:lol: You little devil...

I could have been worse, beef processing plant and hot dog stand! :devil:

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ninjadude

Question: Why should Americans want a Muslim population in the US? NOT why should Muslims be kept out, or kicked out, or if those here should be marginalized-- those are different issues-- but is there any reason we should actively desire a Muslim population within American society? In what ways are Islamic values compatible with, let alone beneficial to, American/Western/democratic values?

What a narrow parochial view point. We WANT a muslim population in the US because it makes us stronger. It is aligned with our values. What you say flies in the face of historic American law and society. And yet you claim to be a student of history.

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ninjadude

You must know a lot of people to think that covers the whole US. Lots of people I knew had to stay home, I was not one of them. Different people had different experiences and the US is a big place.

Where was this at? No one I know in the midwest, or west or at any and I mean ANY of my companies remote sites in various regions of the country stayed home or even wanted to. I have NEVER heard of such a thing. Honestly. It makes my head swim. I mean I can see people in NYC staying home. It was messed up. But elsewhere? Do you have source or even any links for this? I've mentioned this discussion to others and they are dumbfounded. At most, we stopped working for a few hours.

Edited by ninjadude

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ninjadude

Where in the Constitution does it say immigrants have a right to be here, legal or otherwise?

You do know laws have been passed in the centuries since the American revolution, right?

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ninjadude

People did not start taking 9/11 out on Muslims in the US...they did not start bombing mosques and assaulting them or their businesses. This started out as a simple request, that another mosque not be put in a place that holds such significance. I have to ask...is there a hidden agenda for his stubbornness.

So 9/11 cannot hold any significance to American citizens who are muslim? think about it. They want to support their local NYC community against radical islam.

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Agent X

You do know laws have been passed in the centuries since the American revolution, right?

So? Show me the legislation that says immigrants have a right to be here.

But far more important than the legislation are the rights enumerated in the BoR.

After all, you people say it's a right.

So where in the BoR says it actually is?

Put up or shut up.

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ninjadude

So? Show me the legislation that says immigrants have a right to be here.

Are you serious? source

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AROCES

So 9/11 cannot hold any significance to American citizens who are muslim? think about it. They want to support their local NYC community against radical islam.

They do?

Do you have any link of a Muslim leader say something about those responsible for 9/11 that supports your claim?

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Karlis

This topic is not concerned as to the pros and cons of a Muslim population in the USA, nor does it involve the Constitution and migrants. And we do not need "any link of a Muslim leader say something about those responsible for 9/11" either, thanks.

Apart from that, please remember that the personal sniping and arguing on the last few pages is against forum rules. Don’t be surprised if moderating action takes place if that continues.

Thanks,

Karlis

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ninjadude

They do?

Do you have any link of a Muslim leader say something about those responsible for 9/11 that supports your claim?

Cordoba House is a Muslim-led project which will build a world-class facility that promotes tolerance, reflecting the rich diversity of New York City. The center will be community-driven, serving as a platform for inter-community gatherings and cooperation at all levels, providing a space for all New Yorkers to enjoy.

This proposed project is about promoting integration, tolerance of difference and community cohesion through arts and culture. Cordoba House will provide a place where individuals, regardless of their backgrounds, will find a center of learning, art and culture; and most importantly, a center guided by Islamic values in their truest form - compassion, generosity, and respect for all.

The site will contain tremendous amounts of resources that otherwise would not exist in Lower Manhattan; a 500-seat auditorium, swimming pool, art exhibition spaces, bookstores, restaurants - all these services would form a cultural nexus for a region of New York City that, as it continues to grow, requires the sort of hub that Cordoba House will provide.

source

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Leah G.

Where was this at? No one I know in the midwest, or west or at any and I mean ANY of my companies remote sites in various regions of the country stayed home or even wanted to. I have NEVER heard of such a thing. Honestly. It makes my head swim. I mean I can see people in NYC staying home. It was messed up. But elsewhere? Do you have source or even any links for this? I've mentioned this discussion to others and they are dumbfounded. At most, we stopped working for a few hours.

Ninjadude, you are wrong but believe what you want.

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Michelle

never mind

Edited by Michelle

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DieChecker

I still think it is a bad idea to build there, as it will draw negative attension to those who work, worship and socialize there. New York is a huge place, so is there not a better place for this center? What might the estimate of muslim hating unstable people in NYC be? I think if they do build the mosque, it will be subject to thousands of incidents per year. Why force the issue when the same purpose can be accomplished by moving the mosque 15 minutes walking distance, or even 5 minutes walking distance further away?

It is like Pro-Choice people building an abortion clinic between a Catholic church and a Baptist church. They will get grief every hour of every day.

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Junkers88

It is like Pro-Choice people building an abortion clinic between a Catholic church and a Baptist church.

Or perhaps a Temple to Hinduism over at Pearl Harbor?

Edited by Junkers88

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Leah G.

Or perhaps a Temple to Hinduism over at Pearl Harbor?

Exactly!

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HerNibs

Exactly!

There are several Shinto shrines at Pearl Harbor.

They were there before Pearl Harbor and have been restored and are in use today.

Just as the Muslim population was strong in the WTC area before it was the WTC area and the new mosque is supplementing several older mosques.

Nibs

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DieChecker
Once Hawaii was attacked, all of this changed. Japanese leaders, including Shinto priests, were rounded up and deported. It was impossible to resettle all of the Japanese, as California had done, for they constituted nearly one-third of the population. The people of Hawaii simply had to learn to live together despite their qualms. Suspicions continued for a while: Shinto shrines were considered a hotbed of subversive activities by some and were vandalized; Japanese maids were thought to be spies; Japanese fishermen were believed to have directed the pilots of the emperor to their targets.

http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1437

I'll bet that the vandalism and other problems that the Hawaiian Japanese encountered lasted for Decades. Do you suspect these Japanese might have been better off if they had lived elsewhere?

All building this mosque is going to do is build hard feelings, it is not going to teach any none Muslim tolerance or peace.

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Junkers88

http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1437

I'll bet that the vandalism and other problems that the Hawaiian Japanese encountered lasted for Decades. Do you suspect these Japanese might have been better off if they had lived elsewhere?

All building this mosque is going to do is build hard feelings, it is not going to teach any none Muslim tolerance or peace.

But that sort of vandalism will not happen now. We are a nation of "sensitive" folks. We cave under pressure to be more politically correct, gender sensitive, race acceptance... *sarcasm*

Seems now days that it doesn't matter what may or may not be best for the nation, just as long as we don't upset someone. Makes me sick. I have no issues with race, color, creed, etc. What I do have issues with is someone trying to build a religious building that is devoted to the same religion that killed many of our (American infidels) people right next to the area where it happened.

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TFSM

But that sort of vandalism will not happen now. We are a nation of "sensitive" folks. We cave under pressure to be more politically correct, gender sensitive, race acceptance... *sarcasm*

Seems now days that it doesn't matter what may or may not be best for the nation, just as long as we don't upset someone. Makes me sick. I have no issues with race, color, creed, etc. What I do have issues with is someone trying to build a religious building that is devoted to the same religion that killed many of our (American infidels) people right next to the area where it happened.

Are you talking about supporters or opponents of the mosque? Honestly, this sentence sounds like you could be describing the non-muslim people who are too sensitive to the building of a religious facility near a site of tragedy for all religions.

Also, endorsing discrimination against a whole group of people based on the actions of a few is idiotic and shows just how narrow minded some people are.

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Leah G.

I was listening to Rush this morning and heard that they are planning to start building on 9/11/11 and that all the construction guys are getting together and vowing to not work the sight. That of course may change by then but I think it's an honorable thought.

I know listening to Rush isn't popular around here but what can I say, I'm a conservative.

H.

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DieChecker

The 99% bending over backward to not offend the 1% is what is idiotic.

United States 1,559,294 0.5%

New York 223,968 1.1%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States

Now this is from 2000, but the trend in population should be about the same. If even 2% of New Yorkers do not like what is going on with this Mosque then it should be stopped. I'd say the same if it was a Catholic Cathedral, or a Mormon Temple, or a Shinto Shrine, or a Scientology Center.

I think that the City Officals have approved this and have rejected complaints just speaks to the Egoism and Elitism of those officials.

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aquatus1
Also, endorsing discrimination against a whole group of people based on the actions of a few is idiotic and shows just how narrow minded some people are.

So, even though this is just about one specific mosque that does not yet exist, and even though no one is objecting to the large Muslim cultural center that is going to be built in that location, and no one is calling for the demolition of the existing mosques in New York City, or the banning of building mosques anywhere else...you are just broad-brushing the entire thing as discrimination and calling anyone who disagrees narrow-minded.

Irony much?

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HerNibs

I was listening to Rush this morning and heard that they are planning to start building on 9/11/11 and that all the construction guys are getting together and vowing to not work the sight. That of course may change by then but I think it's an honorable thought.

I know listening to Rush isn't popular around here but what can I say, I'm a conservative.

H.

I see that on Rush's web page. Only place I can find any reference to the idea is an op/ed piece on the NY Post.

The Park51 Website doesn't mention a date at all.

I don't think it makes a great deal of sense for the 9/11/11 date because there is already a large Burlington Coat Factory Building on the site now. That would have to come down. It appears from the Park51 website that they still have many things to do prior to being ready to break ground.

Park51 website

Where is Park51?

At 51 Park Place, in Lower Manhattan, just west of Church Street. A complete renovation of the existing building is in the works, as we determine how best to serve our community in a responsible, accessible (and green) way.

Who's leading Park51?

Park51 is an independent project led by Muslim Americans. This project is separate from The Cordoba Initiative and ASMA.

The next step in developing Park51 is forming a non-profit and applying for tax-exempt status. Imam Feisal Abdul-Rauf and Sharif El-Gamal are serving as the project managers until then.

This non-profit will be run by an Executive Director, yet to be selected, support staff, and a 23-member Board of Directors. We will choose a diverse Board of Directors, based on leadership, experience and perspective. The Board will not be limited by religion or region.

The mosque will be run by a separate non-profit whose Board of Directors will reflect a broad range of experience. While the mosque will be located in the planned final structure of Park51, it will be a distinct non-profit.

What's Cordoba House and What's Its Relationship to Park51?

Cordoba House, under the direction of Imam Feisal Abdul-Rauf, will represent a multifaith programming cluster within Park51.

Who owns the property that will become Park51?

The 51 Park Place building and lot is owned by Soho Properties, a private real estate developer here in Manhattan.

Who’s financing the development of Park51?

We’ll be establishing a non-profit entity and applying for 501 c(3) federal tax-exempt status, and we’ll pursue future development with a mix of equity, financing and contributions.

We have not yet launched our fundraising campaign. Park51 will incorporate as a non-profit and seek federal tax-exempt status. We are pledging to pursue this fundraising campaign in accordance with all applicable laws and regulations. We have hired legal counsel and top-notch auditors to oversee this process from start to finish.

We will hire security consultants to assist us in the process of reviewing potential financiers and philanthropists as we begin to establish our fundraising strategy. We will refuse assistance, financial or otherwise, from any persons or institutions who are flagged by our security consultants or any government agencies.

When will Park51 open?

Daily Muslim prayer services have been held at 51 Park Place since late 2009. We hope to expand services and facilities in the coming months, although a firm date has not yet been set for the opening of Park51.

How can I become part of Park51?

From community leaders and artists to businesspeople, teachers and residents old and new, Park51 will have something for everyone -- just like New York. We need your help to realize this vision: Please contact us with any questions or concerns, consider making a donation and check back often for further updates.

For more information on Park51, we suggest you read Altmuslim's exciting interview. Please also see our August 3, 2010, Op-Ed published by New York Daily News.

I also find the list of contributor's interesting -

Additionally, we appreciate the support received from the following organizations:

September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, J Street, The Arab American Family Support Center, Auburn Seminary, American Jewish Committee, Cause New York, Chautauqua Institute, Congregation B'nai Jeshurun, Faith House Manhattan, Friends of the Arava Institute, Interfaith Youth Core, Intersections, Interfaith Center of New York, The Interfaith Alliance, Jewish Community Center in Manhattan, Lutheran Seafarers and International House, New York Buddhist Church, Odyssey, New Seminary, Out of Cordoba – Averros and Miamonides, NY interfaith Disaster,One Voice, One Spirit, St. Bartholomew's Church, Same Difference Interfaith Alliance, The Church of St. Paul and St. Andrew, Tanenbaum Center, The Foundation for Ethnic Understanding, Trinity Wall Church, The Healing of the Nations Foundation, The Migration Policy Institute, Union Theological Seminary, St. Peters Church, UN Special Envoy for HIV/AIDS in Asia and the Pacific, UJA Federation of New York.

There is a great deal of overcoming "stereotypical prejudices" on that list.

Nibs

ETA- Just saw your post aquatus1 - the mosque has been up and running for a while.

Nibs

Edited by HerNibs

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