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Ground Zero Mosque


Karlis

Shold the mosque be approved? Or not approved?  

87 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the building of a mosque be approved?



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Here is where the address is. 51 Park Place. They will be building barely 200 meters from where the buildings went down.

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If you look at the location compared to the entire island of Manhattan, it is practically the same location. There has to be a better location. This is only being attempted to try to raise anger and publicity.

Is Tolerance served by insighting Anger?

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who would be doing this? It's been there for ages. "They" are not "creating" anything other than a community center and additional mosque. There are two others in the area as well. These things already exist. You are somehow creating a dichotomy that does not exist.

Come off it Ninjadude. The center is immense.

you mean by all those from "outside" this neighborhood trying to impose their definition of what it should be? Certainly the islamic neighborhood itself already exists and is vibrant.

Have you ever been there? Do you know the Battery Park area? When is the last time you wandered around there?

certainly they do. It happens in ethnic neighborhoods in all large cities.

No it doesn't and no they don't. America is not a vacuum waiting to be filled with glorious, politically correct, ancient third world cultures. We already have a culture-- it's the result of people's living here and mixing on the streets for hundreds of years.

How would you feel about a bunch of Americans moving to Mecca (a deeply symbolic place like the WTC site is) erecting a gigantic American style Unitarian Church, thousands of living units and a community center and announcing that from now on that was a Christian neighborhood and was going to operate with American manners? I strongly suspect you think it's natural and wonderful for them and would be horribly insensitive for us.

new yorkers need to get over it
Nice. Hey, ninjadude...Have you lost any close friends or relatives in the last ten years? If so suck it up and get the hell over it. Edited by Siara
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How would you feel about a bunch of Americans moving to Mecca (a deeply symbolic place like the WTC site is) erecting a gigantic American style Unitarian Church, thousands of living units and a community center and announcing that from now on that was a Christian neighborhood and was going to operate with American manners? I strongly suspect you think it's natural and wonderful for them and would be horribly insensitive for us.

And... that they are there to teach tolerance to the very angry people who don't want them there.

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I find it interesting that the Cordoba House is expected to be a $100 million dollar project and that the developers claim it will be paid for by the people who come there. Yet, only $100 thousand has been raised. Not even 1%. Only 0.1%. The developers have gone on record (Not in the US) as saying that Moslim nations will help finance the construction.

They have also officially changed the name to Park51, since people thought Cordoba House refered to Cordoba Spain, the capital of Moorish Spain after the defeat of the Christian Spanish. People thought it meant a tribute to a Muslim conquest. Thus a name change.

Many important muslims and muslim leaders have gone on record as saying this mosque is a clear insult to the USA and New York. Yet the PC officials of NYC have decided that it is their job to put through what no one wants.

And... the muslim center only two blocks away? They got evicted from their old meeting place and are in a temporary place now, that is too small for all their members. So they do need a place, but clearly if the muslim center two blocks away went belly up renting space in a old building, how do they expect to keep this financial monster running?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordoba_House

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what does race have to do with anything? All races can be muslim. It's a religion not a race. And maybe that's the problem. People think muslims are a race.

What does economic status have to do with anything? All levels of society can be muslim. Shirley you don't think only poor can be muslim. That would be wrong.

What does a single area in lower manhatten have to do with it? There are many areas in lower manhatten. Muslims have lived in NYC for centuries.

If you've ever really read any of my posts you should be well aware that I know the difference between religion and race.

I simply gave you the demographics of the area in question, which is the area around the WTC site that is called Battery Park City. I assumed you knew that since you declared it to be mostly occupied by Muslims.

If you have other information, and the links to back it up, on the religion of the people in the area, I would be glad to consider it.

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Why isn't it a Muslim led Pan-Religous project that includes shrines to Christian, Jewish, Hindu and Other Religions, in addition to being a mosque? That would show tolerance more then a Muslims only club house.

same reason the church two blocks from your house is a Christian only church.

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If you look at the location compared to the entire island of Manhattan, it is practically the same location. There has to be a better location.

so they have to travel farther to worship the way they want to because of your intolerance?

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How would you feel about a bunch of Americans moving to Mecca (a deeply symbolic place like the WTC site is) erecting a gigantic American style Unitarian Church, thousands of living units and a community center and announcing that from now on that was a Christian neighborhood and was going to operate with American manners?

The WTC is not the center of a religion. IT is not sacred. I think you misunderstand what Mecca is.

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I find it interesting that the Cordoba House is expected to be a $100 million dollar project and that the developers claim it will be paid for by the people who come there. Yet, only $100 thousand has been raised. Not even 1%. Only 0.1%. The developers have gone on record (Not in the US) as saying that Moslim nations will help finance the construction.

They have also officially changed the name to Park51, since people thought Cordoba House refered to Cordoba Spain, the capital of Moorish Spain after the defeat of the Christian Spanish. People thought it meant a tribute to a Muslim conquest. Thus a name change.

Moorish spain was the epitomy of religious tolerance. Jews Christians and Muslims lived and worked together. It is the perfect name.

And do you know who put up all the money for the Christian church two blocks from your house? Is there some public law that says they have to do this? No. Neither does the mosque. Freedom of religion goes both ways.

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I simply gave you the demographics of the area in question, which is the area around the WTC site that is called Battery Park City. I assumed you knew that since you declared it to be mostly occupied by Muslims.

\

But Michelle, really, what do the DEMOGRAPHICS have to do with ANYTHING?!! Muslims are not a RACE or an economic CLASS. What in the world makes you think it matters in any way?

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But Michelle, really, what do the DEMOGRAPHICS have to do with ANYTHING?!! Muslims are not a RACE or an economic CLASS. What in the world makes you think it matters in any way?

Because you said that the area around the WTC is mostly Muslim. To be blunt...prove it.

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The WTC is not the center of a religion. IT is not sacred. I think you misunderstand what Mecca is.

It's pretty sacred for the people who lost loved ones there. I get the feeling that you don't know New York.

Edited by Siara
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Moorish spain was the epitomy of religious tolerance. Jews Christians and Muslims lived and worked together. It is the perfect name.

Good point. What a pity most New Yorkers aren't up on the sociology of 11th century al-Andalus. Ninjadude, get your head out of the textbook for a minute. New Yorkers are human beings, not symbols of a political philosophy.

I probably just missed it reading this thread but- how much time have you spent in New York?

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Unless you are from another country and a victim of an unjust war, he has no sympathy, Siara.

If you are a family member, of the senseless murders of everyone in the WTC, you should suck it up and get over it already. :rolleyes:

Edited by Michelle
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The WTC is not the center of a religion. IT is not sacred. I think you misunderstand what Mecca is.

To many people who lost family and friends in the attack, it is sacred. Look at it like this, most people don't see a difference between Al Queida and Islam. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is. To alot of people this mosque is a slap in the face, regardless of how you think they ought to feel, it feels like the muslims are trying to claim ground zero as a war trophy. Folks just aren't going to let it happen.

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At > this site is (imo) a 'reasonably' balanced article concerning many of the points discussed in this thread.

The article is by Jacob Thomas. The indented text is the introduction in the article:

"On 18 May, 2010, the Arabic-language online daily Elaph posted an article by an Arab Muslim, in which he decried “The Cordoba Mosque” building project being planned for construction in the vicinity of Ground Zero, in New York City.

Set forth below are excerpts from his article, and from two other articles on this same subject. My analysis and comments will follow."

What are your thoughts on the various points raised there?

Karlis

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NY governor offers help moving ground zero mosque

By MICHAEL GORMLEY (AP) – 13 hours ago

ALBANY, N.Y. — New York Gov. David Paterson offered state help Tuesday if the developers of a mosque near the site of the Sept. 11 attacks agree to move the project farther from the site.

Paterson, a Democrat, said that he doesn't oppose the project as planned but indicated that he understands where opponents are coming from. He said he was willing to intervene to seek other suitable state property if the developers agreed.

"I think it's rather clear that building a center there meets all the requirements, but it does seem to ignite an immense amount of anxiety among the citizens of New York and people everywhere, and I think not without cause," Paterson said in a news conference in Manhattan.

The developers declined to comment. ... (snip) ...

Source

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eh? what in the world are you on about?

It must be so freeing to be able to insult people so freely without even noticing you are doing it.

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NY governor offers help moving ground zero mosque

By MICHAEL GORMLEY (AP) – 13 hours ago

ALBANY, N.Y. — New York Gov. David Paterson offered state help Tuesday if the developers of a mosque near the site of the Sept. 11 attacks agree to move the project farther from the site.

Good for him. Exactly the right approach. A realization that the New York Muslim community (except for a few creeps) is independent from the terrorists. An awareness that there's nothing wrong with their establishing a community center. An awareness that New Yorkers were horribly traumatized and putting a Muslim center right at Ground Zero has a very strange symbolic implication. A willingness to help the Muslim community integrate into the city while showing respect for the families of the 9-11 victims.

His approach is so perfect I'm sure extremists on both sides are going to start p***ing and moaning about how horrible it is.

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As for the folks who are trying to make a huge profit out of the real estate deal-- it's time for them to realize that making cash isn't all there is to being an American.

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NY governor offers help moving ground zero mosque

By MICHAEL GORMLEY (AP) – 13 hours ago

ALBANY, N.Y. — New York Gov. David Paterson offered state help Tuesday if the developers of a mosque near the site of the Sept. 11 attacks agree to move the project farther from the site.

Source

This looks like progress on the issue. Move it to where it will still be useful, but not viewed as a Monument to a terrorist attack.

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To many people who lost family and friends in the attack, it is sacred. Look at it like this, most people don't see a difference between Al Queida and Islam. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is. To alot of people this mosque is a slap in the face, regardless of how you think they ought to feel, it feels like the muslims are trying to claim ground zero as a war trophy. Folks just aren't going to let it happen.

So all Muslims have to suffer because "most people" are too lazy/ignorant/stupid to know the difference? Maybe they should spend more time learning about Islam instead of fighting against something they have no clue about.

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This poll was a bit misleading. I thought that the mosque was to be built on Ground Zero, but on further investigation it is in a disused building two blocks away. So i retract my vote of No.

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This poll was a bit misleading. I thought that the mosque was to be built on Ground Zero, but on further investigation it is in a disused building two blocks away. So i retract my vote of No.

It over looks the site, don't be mistaken it is a big issue.

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What is ignorant is making this issue about Islam, or muslims, rather then what it is about. It is about these muslim developers purposefully wanting to build as close as possible to the Ground Zero destruction area, and wanting to build as big a building as possible and to use foreign muslim investors to do it with. They will answer no questions about if they favor or oppose radical islam, and have links to many who do favor it. They say a lot of double talk when asked about their investors and they unable to explain how the building will be financed after it is built and how will run it.

This is not about a mosque, Islam or muslims. It is about a shady developer with a agenda to promote.

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