Vicar tells churchgoers to swear more

[Still Waters]

As a former place of worship for Sir Edward Elgar and William Wordsworth, the church of St Mary the Virgin in Herefordshire might be expected to be a haven of calm and tradition.

The Norman church, has stood for hundreds of years in the tranquil village of Burghill, in countryside surrounded by apple and pear orchards.

However, its vicar, who used to work in the East End of London, is urging parishoners to move aggresively into the modern age - by swearing more.

Reverend Michael Land, 67, said Christians needed to adopt swearing in their everyday language because it is how Jesus would have spoken.

He said too many people put Jesus "on a pedestal" and failed to realise that he was poor, relatively uneducated and preferred not to mix with the elite of his day.

He added that the Church risked becoming out of touch with ordinary people if its clergy did not become "streetwise" and failed to use earthy language.

Read more...

[The Silver Thong]

This looks more like religion praying on the less fortunate. The guy is right though, go after the poor and lesser educated as bringing them into the fold is easier. This is almost an admission that religion is loosing it's influence over the educated, why is that I wonder.

[Druidus-Logos]

I agree, ST. That's a good description of what appears to be happening.

[+Link of Hyrule]

Hmm, I guess this vicar has never read what Jesus said about having a "clean heart" (Mark 7 - can't recall the exact verses, but it's in this chapter). For, Jesus says, it is what comes out of our mouths which makes us unclean - foul tongues fit into this category.

I'm all for approaching people with the gospel in a way that they understand (Paul advocated something very similar with his "to the Greek I became a Greek" approach), but if that approach compromises Christian values, then it is too high a price to pay. I've lived in the poorer part of Sydney, Australia for my entire life. I've grown up with friends who swear and curse and do all that kind of thing. In my life as a Christian, I have not needed to resort to swearing to feel a "connection" between these people. Instead of falling back on swearing, why not show Christians how to talk about what they believe without the Christian jargon attached to terms such as "redemption", "sin", "grace", and such. I think it is this overuse of Christian terminology that pushes the lower educated away more than anything else.

[The Silver Thong]

Hmm, I guess this vicar has never read what Jesus said about having a "clean heart" (Mark 7 - can't recall the exact verses, but it's in this chapter). For, Jesus says, it is what comes out of our mouths which makes us unclean - foul tongues fit into this category.

.

Foul tongues hmmmm I would take a foul tongue as saying hateful things. A swear word is not in itself a bad thing but an expression. Many people can take many words and make them foul. Saying "oh Sh!T" I forgot my wallet at home, is in no way a bad thing really. Or the F word it's not the word that's bad it's how it is used and in what context. Does anyone know what Jesus said when he was crucified? I know I would have said a few curse word, just not "god damn" this hurts lol.

Edited July 31, 2010 by The Silver Thong

[Druidus-Logos]

Foul tongues hmmmm I would take a foul tongue as saying hateful things. A swear word is not in itself a bad thing but an expression. Many people can take many words and make them foul. Saying "oh Sh!T" I forgot my wallet at home, is in no way a bad thing really. Or the F word it's not the word that's bad it's how it is used and in what context. Does anyone know what Jesus said when he was crucified? I know I would have said a few curse word, just not "god damn" this hurts lol.

Gotta agree with ST here. I don't think any real God would make arbitrary utterances wrong. And, in fact, swears have been shown to reduce blood pressure, amongst other things. I think God would be more interested in negative intent.

[+Link of Hyrule]

This looks more like religion praying on the less fortunate. The guy is right though, go after the poor and lesser educated as bringing them into the fold is easier. This is almost an admission that religion is loosing it's influence over the educated, why is that I wonder.

I think it is more a case of looking at the ministry of Jesus and modelling ourselves after him. Jesus didn't go around pandering to the rich and famous. He brought his message to the everyday man, the common person. And the hypothesis of this vicar is that we should bring swearing into our conversations in order to better relate to that demographic.

It's not a case of "praying on the less fortunate", as I can see. At least in the part of Australia that I live in there is an over-abundance of ministries aimed at people with tertiary education qualifications, but very little aimed at the "common man" who has never been to university. I recently heard statistics about Christians in Australia. The majority of Australians never get university degrees. Yet the majority of church goers in Australia do hold university qualifications (provided they are old enough, this statistic obviously doesn't include kids). What can we account for this disparity in the statistics - is it that better qualifications make us more likely to turn to Jesus? Or is it that more ministry is aimed at university students and people with degrees?

I'm pretty sure it's the latter. And however misguided I think it is, this suggestion by this vicar is their approach to dealing with that issue. I think there are more productive ways to achieve that, and think it is one further step in Christian liberalism (seriously, this may sound contradictory, but the more "tolerant" a church becomes by watering down their teachings, the less likely people are going to attend).

~ PA

[+Link of Hyrule]

Foul tongues hmmmm I would take a foul tongue as saying hateful things. A swear word is not in itself a bad thing but an expression. Many people can take many words and make them foul. Saying "oh Sh!T" I forgot my wallet at home, is in no way a bad thing really. Or the F word it's not the word that's bad it's how it is used and in what context. Does anyone know what Jesus said when he was crucified? I know I would have said a few curse word, just not "god damn" this hurts lol.

It concerns the intentions behind the word. True, social issues do play a part (40 years ago, it was taboo to say "bottom" on televison), but there are a certain set of words in our modern vernacular that, no matter how we try to spin it, are considered wrong. These words are used for the intention of being inappropriate - including "oh s***, I forgot my wallet". Sure in a few decades, maybe some words won't have the same meaning they do today. But as it stands, in modern day 2010, the use of certain expletives are evidence of what lies in our hearts. It is what comes from our hearts, out of our mouths that make us unclean. In the end, only God can judge this, but in the interim, it is a massive compromise on Christian values to simply allow us to start swearing just so that we can reach a certain group. As I said, I have lived in a disadvantaged area of Sydney my whole life. Since I became a Christian, I have not found the need at all to swear in order to fit in.

~ PA

[The Silver Thong]

Hi ya PA

I don't know who says some words are ok and some are not but it's in the use not the word. I could sit with a priest today and talk about the world cup and if he said did you that *** save so and so made the other day. I would respond F ya that was *** awesome. The vicar is right in what he wants to gain am I wrong? He want's a common bond with the common man.

I can't remember who said this but I did hear once a man say "never trust a man who doesn't curse, he's probably hiding something"

There are words that can be used today that are not swear words but can be used as such hidden behind false pretense.

I don't know if this is bad or not but I could say to you "go pound the bishop" is that a bad word or is it the way it's used. Jesus would not care as long as hate was not the reason behind the curse word. Let's not take gods name in vain, we all do it when we hit our thumbs with a hammer

[Belial]

That vicars just trying to be hip, in with the young ones. He knows that religion is a past tense today, and this will probably give him a short cut to the young around him, not just the smiling happy guitar playing dudes.

Hell yeah, go for it you mother ******* ***** ******amen

[Black Hound]

We Baptist have a long tradition of swearing, usually at each other, when different groups get together to decide which "Baptist dogma" is the "one true one" but God forbid the British start doing anything like that. We have to look down on some group as "spiritual lessers" but if the church across the pond starts encourages it among the conregations, where does that leave us. We might have to start getting along among ourselves and that would "Hell on earth". :w00t:

[Belial]

What a pile of toddle you type, most of your types are probably ready to die as a cult religous order because the leader says so

[MARAB0D]

I can imagine how his sermon sounds... "Bless you, my <beep> children. Today I want to tell you more about Jesus <beep> Christ, you know who I am talking about, don't you, <beep>? I know that many of you think this Jewish <beep> <beep> to be a son of <beep> God and that <beep> Virgin Mary, and you are <beep> right on this one, but think, what sort of a <beep> son he was?...etc"

[Blue Lizard]

We should not be changing Churches according to what the people want. Yes, there are always these ridiculous points that might make the majority believe that such a practice is acceptable, but this is far from the truth. This seems more like a way that the Vicar thought could possibly bring street people to churches, and this is good except he is making up lies to do it.

Some of the disciples were fishermen like Peter and these disciples used to swear - this is true. Some movies depicting the life of Jesus does include this into their dialogues. However there are a lot of assumptions made by the Vicar. We have no idea what Jesus did before he was 30, which means He could have very well got some education as some theories mention.

Mark 7:20-22 - 20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 21For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. (King James Version)

The above Bible verse goes to say that bad things come from within than from outside. Swearing is included in this context, especially because people swear to express anger more than anything. This is a negative expression of anger and hence, this is also considered bad.

We are supposed to live a life that doesn't shame us i.e. one that we can live in front of God and still consider it to be shameless and pure. This is why Christians focus (or at least should focus) on being clean (eating right and following certain practices) whenever necessary.

You wouldn't swear in a meeting to get the connection with the interviewer, since it is formal. Formal is more clean than street talk. Similarly, street talk is an unclean way of conversing with anyone and if you truly respect someone, you would stay away from it. If someone has to swear constantly to express their thoughts, then this does says a lot about that person as anyone else would agree.

Someone who is a priest or holds any other similar reputation should definitely not have a foul mouth. He is conversing with God and speaking to the people, representing God, and hence foul language is just out of the question - no matter how much the Vicar wants to argue about it.

What's this about putting Jesus on a pedestal? He is the Son of God! If someone, in the history of time itself, ever deserved to be put on a pedestal then that person would be Jesus.

Peter and Jesus's other disciples did swear in the beginning at least, but it was alright because Jesus had chosen them personally. This was similar to the situation on the cross when Jesus forgave the other person of the cross for all his sins. If this is a way that they talk then they should try to reduce it, but this definitely doesn't mean we should swear more.

The Bible has nothing that says that Jesus preferred not to mix with the elites. Some elites didn't want to listen to Him, not the other way around. Besides, Jesus is God's son, which means that He would know better than not curse all the time even if He was born in a poor street family. You don't have to be the Son of God to stop following all the meaningless trends of the society, and Jesus being a virtuous man - would be smart enough to know this.

Take Socrates as an example. He went against a lot of things that he was taught and he was not divine - he was just wise enough to not be a blind follower of trends.

IMHO, people just should stop listening to priests all the time, and start reading the Bible on their own - that is definitely the best approach to getting close to God. Only go to churches if you really need help and can't do it on your own. This way you can avoid the churches fooling you with false teachings like the selling of indulgences thing in history.

The Bible teaches us to be humble and the Vicar display of anger, is definitely not being humble.

[Agent. Mulder]

I can imagine how his sermon sounds... "Bless you, my <beep> children. Today I want to tell you more about Jesus <beep> Christ, you know who I am talking about, don't you, <beep>? I know that many of you think this Jewish <beep> <beep> to be a son of <beep> God and that <beep> Virgin Mary, and you are <beep> right on this one, but think, what sort of a <beep> son he was?...etc"

Can anyone picture this? Seems silly to me.

[ChloeB]

I can imagine how his sermon sounds... "Bless you, my <beep> children. Today I want to tell you more about Jesus <beep> Christ, you know who I am talking about, don't you, <beep>? I know that many of you think this Jewish <beep> <beep> to be a son of <beep> God and that <beep> Virgin Mary, and you are <beep> right on this one, but think, what sort of a <beep> son he was?...etc"

LOL, I come in the name of Jesus beotch!!

*snip - the rules on profanity extend to video clips using high levels of swearing*

Edited August 2, 2010 by Paranoid Android
removed youtube links for excessive profanity

[pallidin]

That article is one of the stupidist ****ing things I've read.

[Blue Lizard]

That article is one of the stupidist ****ing things I've read.

[Beckys_Mom]

I think each of us will use the odd swear word or ..two LOL... but I cannot stand to listen to small children use it... There is a new family that has moved near my home.. I hear them non stop out in the street swearing F this and F that... and it sickens me...they are like 5 and 6 years old...the parents are no better....I do not allow my child to go anywhere near them...their older brother is like 10yrs old and he is worse.. the dirty graphic stuff he comes out with would make you throw up...

I know kids tend to think its funny at times..but to constantly swear all the time.. makes me think there is something mentally wrong with them...well there is with one of the kids that swears a lot... he is a disgusting little boy.. I have spotted him urinating up the side of his house and the side of his car..he is only 5...but WTF??? how they got to live in my area is beyond me...disgusting lil gits...I am angered at the people that bought that home near me only to rent it out to those dirty rotten gits!!

I don't like to swear a lot..and I tend to keep it away from my kid...well best I can...its just rotten ....not saying I do not swear..I do...but I dont do it nonstop!!

Edited August 2, 2010 by Beckys_Mom

[Blue Lizard]

I agree fully! Kids these days are brought up with bad parenting and bad morals. I guess it says a lot more about how your neighbors behave themselves. I am glad you are still bringing up your kids the right way!

I think each of us will use the odd swear word or ..two LOL... but I cannot stand to listen to small children use it... There is a new family that has moved near my home.. I hear them non stop out in the street swearing F this and F that... and it sickens me...they are like 5 and 6 years old...the parents are no better....I do not allow my child to go anywhere near them...their older brother is like 10yrs old and he is worse.. the dirty graphic stuff he comes out with would make you throw up...

I know kids tend to think its funny at times..but to constantly swear all the time.. makes me think there is something mentally wrong with them...well there is with one of the kids that swears a lot... he is a disgusting little boy.. I have spotted him urinating up the side of his house and the side of his car..he is only 5...but WTF??? how they got to live in my area is beyond me...disgusting lil gits...I am angered at the people that bought that home near me only to rent it out to those dirty rotten gits!!

I don't like to swear a lot..and I tend to keep it away from my kid...well best I can...its just rotten ....not saying I do not swear..I do...but I dont do it nonstop!!

[Gondooo]

This 'man of God' believes Christ would behave as a human? LMBO He is a PROPHET of God, not a human being! Churches...*rolling eyes*

[HollyDolly]

This 'man of God' believes Christ would behave as a human? LMBO He is a PROPHET of God, not a human being! Churches...*rolling eyes*

Our Saviour certainly didn't act like the common man because He wasn't one.Yes He may have been poor.However, we know little of the youth of Jesus and there is some thought perhasp that Jesus spent time with the Essenes.He may have had some sort of education, since St.Joseph was a carpenter and Jesus would have had to know math and a few other things if He helped St.Joseph out with his work to any extant.After St.Joseph died, Jesus may have even done some work on his own before He began His public ministry.

I don't know if St.Vincent De Paul swore, or St.John Eudes either, but both frenchmen spent their lives helping the common man.St.Vincent De Paul founded the Daughters of Charity ,to help those lest fortunate.Those were the sisters who wore a blue gray colored habit and the big white coronet in the old days.There are photos on the net of the sisters wearing the old habit.St.John Eudes worked among other places as a prision chaplain.Through his contact with women prisioners and conern for their plight, he established the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of Refuge, to help fallen women and girls,so they had a place to stay and learn a trade of some sort so they would not be forced to depend on prostitution to earn a living.

Never heard of St.John Bosco or some of the other saints swearing. There are plenty of people in this world who don't swear, even against the common man many people don't do it.

Think the vicar has a screw loose someplace. Of course we all slip up now and then and swear by accident, but a steady diet is too much and only shows others what a boor one is.

[Dr. D]

Okay, why the hell not?

[Druidus-Logos]

Okay, why the hell not?

It's rather interesting to look at the fact that swearing, when hurt or frustrated, is actually good for your health. Why would God create such an effect? Making something he supposedly doesn't want you to do actually lower your blood pressure?

I think that these rules against swearing are just arbitrary control methods that persist from an ancient and more vestigially controlling past. There's nothing REALLY wrong with swearing. They are arbitrary sounds. That said, it's much smarter to use real words than these expletives, and also displays your intellect better.

I'm not saying it's good to always swear. I'm saying that the only reason it's "wrong" at all is because people have taken it upon themselves to decide that arbitrary sounds should be offensive. If we decided to grow up and stop being so offended at nothing, we could probably even phase out their use. If people use them to get attention, to shock people, etc, then not supplying the expected response will make the words less enjoyable tools. Of course, I doubt that we will alter our behaviour and perceptions in such a logical way when we could stubbornly stick to our outdated and vestigial traditions.