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Persia

It's Time to Get Tough on Iran

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Moon Monkey

first that doesn't prove crap .. because i think the whole world knows

by now ... the people who aren't in denial ... knows that even

osama bin laden was only cover to wage war on afganstan eh ?

it's all crystal clear now except for those who too blind to see

bin laden was merely a game to fool the puplic and give excuse to war

on afaganstan now you expect me to buy this video otherwise ?

usa will try " ANYTHING " to tie iran to terrorists to wage war on them

EVEN IF IT COST THEM THE LOSSES IT DID IN 11

yeah this is how far they migh go

and for israel terrorism no prove needed really

just look at civilians murders and umarmed people getting killed

for no reason look at lebanon war where israel killed over 10000 civilians

and only targeted civilians their way of ending the war is " kill

civilians as much as possiable and the world would stop the war "

coz they were losing

you need more prove than that ... turn on an arabic news channel

and see how many palestine dies every day " unarmed civilians "

with israeli soliders weapons actually terrorism word don't do justice

to describe israel actions

What on earth are you on about ? What has Afghanistan have to do with this video ? What does the USA or Bin Laden have to do with this video ? You said there was no proof available that linked Iran to terrorists and you have a video of a terrorists testimony. You are welcome.

Why is 'no prove needed' to back up your claims but unquestionable proof needed to disprove them ?

Syria have killed more palestinians in one day than Israel have in 50 years. Look at what Syria did in Lebanon before Israel got involved and what Syria did long after Israel left, hell Syria where fighting the same people as Israel for a while. :w00t:

Edited by Moon Monkey

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Knight Of Shadows

the point is they linked osama bin laden to afghanstan to war on it

they can easily falsly link some terrorists to iran for the same reason

you're not living in the real world are you ?

who is that terrorist ? lol as far as i can tell he might be a poor

man who got paid to say these stuff

won't be the first trick done to link terrorists to someone

and no prove needed for my claims coz you see 1000 of proves every day

killing of civilians children and adults alike on israel hands

homes destroyed all the prove is needed

and no not really

lebanon " begged " syrian forces to stay within lebanon for civil war

if syria left lebanon at that time lebanon people would have

tore each other apart

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Moon Monkey

No one else is disputing this terrorist testimony, not even Hezbollah...but you carry on.

Syria switched sides to come into Lebanon at the christian governments request as they were about to lose power to the muslims. Syria joined the same militia that Israel had been supporting and then, both directly and by supplying arms to their new friends, massacred many, many thousands of palestinians.

Then you have the muslim brotherhood who had a long 'struggle' against Ba'ath in Syria and as part of this 'struggle' carried out terrorist attacks. You know what happened. Not targetted air-strikes, not quick incursions to attack the terrorists, not building a wall, no flotillas or marches....no, Syria just went and wiped out 40,000 people, many more have never been found and 100,000 were forced out. There were reports of chemical weapons used, all in a syrian city filled with palestinians. As I said Syria has killed more palestinians in one attack on one city in Syria than Israel has in 50 years of conflict. You have a cheek talking about israeli or US 'crimes', particularly when you do not evidence your claims.

Edited by Moon Monkey

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Knight Of Shadows

muslim brotherhood ? bah

you know if these guys were let lose not only 40.000 would have died

in their actions .. it would have been thousands more

they committed worse crimes these were people like all people

before they became what they are they got rights like any one else in

but no they had to take out the goverment ... and then what ?

chaos .. like iraq that's the beauty isn't ?

we both know that when the goverment is down the whole country goes

to downhill and choas so there's no bullting in what syria did

an action has to be made or else you'd find bombs cars standing

at cornor of every street .. yeah like iraq

but no in case of israel things are differet .. in syria these people

got their full rights " before " they choosed to be muslim brotherhood

but in palestine ... people are thrown outta of their homes .. killed

and stripped of every right ..but wait it gets better :D

knowning that they are the original owners of the lands

yep some one in my home trying to kick me off my own house claiming

that his grand grand grand father " if ever existed " owned my home

and if i fought back .. ohh am terrorists .. now how did that happened ?

and if he got hurt by me ... he's a victim and the the whole world

will defend him .. but if he killed my family .. oh he had to

media will even make excuses for him ... got it ? i really don't like

shooting blanks i hope you're getting all of this :D

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MARAB0D
but no in case of israel things are differet .. in syria these people

got their full rights " before " they choosed to be muslim brotherhood

but in palestine ... people are thrown outta of their homes .. killed

and stripped of every right .

KOS, we are not here to support the sides! We are mostly trying to understand what happens!!!

Historically Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, all Magrib by proximity, is NOT a native land for the Arabs - Arabs are only indigenous to Arabian peninsula, to Saudi Arabia. It is the land of someone else, which they managed to conquer after the fall of Carthage and Roman Empire. The Jews and Arabs were virtually one people, all stemming from Abraham as per Bible (Israelites and Ishmaelites). They both were dominated by the Punes (Phoenicians) up until Rome defeated Carthage and installed European control over the area (200s BC). Palestine is the place where the Jews were living, but not their native land either - they settled after the "indigenous" tribe of the Philistines moved to Europe, and it was a Germanic tribe! After Jesus <beeep> Christ was executed, the Romans enslaved the entire population of Palestine, and moved them all to Italy. In European captivity the Jews spend over 2000 years, and meanwhile their original land was conquered by the Arabs, their blood brothers. In 1949 Europeans decided to allow the Jews back to Palestine - and no one was asking the Arab opinion, as this land is not an Arab original land. If the Jews were creating Israel state in Saudi Arabia, then I would've understood the emotional charge, but they were not! They simply returned "home", asking the few local Arab families to accept their return. Instead we have a neverending blood feud there, already involving such remote entity as Persia, which had nothing to do with the historical events!

Just try to understand the above point of view, it reflects the independent assessment of what is going on, not the corporate interests of the oil companies...

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The Silver Thong

Didn't Iran say a few months back that they had enough material to build a bomb if they wanted to? Seem to recall seeing an article about that.

Your starting to sound like Danielost or Aroces now.

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The Silver Thong

4,000 years? I was under the impression the Islamic Revolution happened only 30 years ago.

Why, do to Reagan?

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Moon Monkey

So what do you have to say about gitmo Cuba?

Not a lot, I don't know enough about it. But what has that got to do with evidence of Irans involvement in terrorism ? Have detainees testified that Iran armed and trained them ?

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The Silver Thong

Not a lot, I don't know enough about it. But what has that got to do with evidence of Irans involvement in terrorism ? Have detainees testified that Iran armed and trained them ?

Torture will produce what ever the torturer want's. Detainees is a nice word for what happens. Has America denied they trained some of these people that they suspend legal representation. Care to speak of Iraq's WMD's or the fact Israel has WMD's. Or that America has given Saudi Arabia WMD's given the billion dollar weapon agreement between the States and Saudi. Does that not give you concern?

You have secret nukes, who is it to say the Saudi's don't.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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Knight Of Shadows

KOS, we are not here to support the sides! We are mostly trying to understand what happens!!!

Historically Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, all Magrib by proximity, is NOT a native land for the Arabs - Arabs are only indigenous to Arabian peninsula, to Saudi Arabia. It is the land of someone else, which they managed to conquer after the fall of Carthage and Roman Empire. The Jews and Arabs were virtually one people, all stemming from Abraham as per Bible (Israelites and Ishmaelites). They both were dominated by the Punes (Phoenicians) up until Rome defeated Carthage and installed European control over the area (200s BC). Palestine is the place where the Jews were living, but not their native land either - they settled after the "indigenous" tribe of the Philistines moved to Europe, and it was a Germanic tribe! After Jesus <beeep> Christ was executed, the Romans enslaved the entire population of Palestine, and moved them all to Italy. In European captivity the Jews spend over 2000 years, and meanwhile their original land was conquered by the Arabs, their blood brothers. In 1949 Europeans decided to allow the Jews back to Palestine - and no one was asking the Arab opinion, as this land is not an Arab original land. If the Jews were creating Israel state in Saudi Arabia, then I would've understood the emotional charge, but they were not! They simply returned "home", asking the few local Arab families to accept their return. Instead we have a neverending blood feud there, already involving such remote entity as Persia, which had nothing to do with the historical events!

Just try to understand the above point of view, it reflects the independent assessment of what is going on, not the corporate interests of the oil companies...

Finally some one talking with some sense ..

yes you were very close here but not quiet

you see syria - palestine - lebanon plus plus were first inhabited by

" Kann'n People " whom are traveling arabic tribes went out of the

Arabian peninsula and and those of them who inhabited the coast got the name of Phoenicians so you see they are also from arabian peninsula

where were the israel then ?? from when they got the right to own the land

palestine name came from a tribe name some people who lived in the

mountains and were know for their strength and well use of iron and making

weapons ... the land were named after them later

they took over the Kann'n cities ... still no histories for israel

it's on our history books but try to explain it to them and they ask

for a prove .. i mean prove like what ? an artifact of that time ? :D

beside arabic pages about the topic i can't offer more .. coz as land

in arabic surrounding area .. we are bound to know about it's history

more than those who claim it and live miles away don't you think ?

it's like some one try to tell me about my nighbors history which just

live next door and i know for sure i know better about that nighbor

by the way those event mentioned above were way way before BC and

roman invasion of palestine

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MARAB0D

Finally some one talking with some sense ..

yes you were very close here but not quiet

you see syria - palestine - lebanon plus plus were first inhabited by

" Kann'n People " whom are traveling arabic tribes went out of the

Arabian peninsula and and those of them who inhabited the coast got the name of Phoenicians so you see they are also from arabian peninsula

where were the israel then ?? from when they got the right to own the land

palestine name came from a tribe name some people who lived in the

mountains and were know for their strength and well use of iron and making

weapons ... the land were named after them later

they took over the Kann'n cities ... still no histories for israel

it's on our history books but try to explain it to them and they ask

for a prove .. i mean prove like what ? an artifact of that time ? :D

beside arabic pages about the topic i can't offer more .. coz as land

in arabic surrounding area .. we are bound to know about it's history

more than those who claim it and live miles away don't you think ?

it's like some one try to tell me about my nighbors history which just

live next door and i know for sure i know better about that nighbor

by the way those event mentioned above were way way before BC and

roman invasion of palestine

Well... If 2500 years ago you called a Phoenician "an Arab", you would be probably crucified. Phoenicians were sure Semites, but they had little to do with their junior brothers like Hebrews or Arabs. They were indeed controlling the coastline and ports, as they were sea people, traders - and their main cities were Tyr and Sidon in now-Lebanon, while the land-locked Canaan was a sort of their backyard, in which their poor relatives were feeding their donkeys and camels. Open the Biblical maps - Canaan did not have a single sea port! Phoenicians were the culture, possibly older than the Egyptians, at least the earliest Egyptian records (~10,000 years BC!) were already mentioning them. There is no succession line between the Punes and the modern Arabs or Jews, Phoenicians were a developed civilisation in the times when these two were just feral nomads. Romans destroyed their strongest colony, Carthage,in 190s BC while the metropolis in Tyr surrendered to the Hellenes even earlier. Jews were certainly under some Phoenician influence during the Israelites being in Egypt, as there was a large trading community of the Punes in this country, but at that moment Israelites were just simplistic nomads, dwellers of the desert. Later in Canaan there was hardly any chance to experience this influence at all, as due to their extreme arrogance the Punes simply did not liaise with the Canaanites! To make a parallel, they were feeling among the others like the Americans feel themselves today, the super-heroes surrounded by the humble savages.

The entire squabble goes around only a few square kilometres which were given to the Jews in the area, in which their civilisation was historically formed. Jerusalem is certainly their city, and Solomon's temple in it was built by their ancestors - so they want to live there again, and the Europeans admitted they were taken out against their will. To be honest, I just cannot understand the Arab resistance to this. They were supposed to simply let the Jews in to settle, there is no big deal, the Arabs still have enough lands for themselves! What would happen to the Arab world if the Jews continue living there? Nothing!

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Moon Monkey

Torture will produce what ever the torturer want's. Detainees is a nice word for what happens. Has America denied they trained some of these people that they suspend legal representation. Care to speak of Iraq's WMD's or the fact Israel has WMD's. Or that America has given Saudi Arabia WMD's given the billion dollar weapon agreement between the States and Saudi. Does that not give you concern?

You have secret nukes, who is it to say the Saudi's don't.

I wasn't aware that there was any discussion or concern that this hezbollah testimony had been acheieved under duress. Maybe you can link me to some details as I haven't seen any.

I don't have any secret nukes and have no interest in Gitmo, as far as I am concerned that is between the US, the UN , human rights agencies, the governments of countries where the detainees were picked up and the governments of the countries of detainee nationality. I also have no concerns whatsoever about who the US does arms deals with. If a country wants arms there are plenty of other suppliers on the market. But I don't want to go any further off topic.

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Moon Monkey

Finally some one talking with some sense ..

yes you were very close here but not quiet

you see syria - palestine - lebanon plus plus were first inhabited by

" Kann'n People " whom are traveling arabic tribes went out of the

Arabian peninsula and and those of them who inhabited the coast got the name of Phoenicians so you see they are also from arabian peninsula

where were the israel then ?? from when they got the right to own the land

palestine name came from a tribe name some people who lived in the

mountains and were know for their strength and well use of iron and making

weapons ... the land were named after them later

they took over the Kann'n cities ... still no histories for israel

it's on our history books but try to explain it to them and they ask

for a prove .. i mean prove like what ? an artifact of that time ? :D

beside arabic pages about the topic i can't offer more .. coz as land

in arabic surrounding area .. we are bound to know about it's history

more than those who claim it and live miles away don't you think ?

it's like some one try to tell me about my nighbors history which just

live next door and i know for sure i know better about that nighbor

by the way those event mentioned above were way way before BC and

roman invasion of palestine

There is evidence of population in the land now called Israel dating back 1.4 million years. Cultures such as Yarmukians, Canaaanites and Ghassulians had long established civilisations and cultures before any 'mingling' began with groups from the arab peninsula. The hebrews were first recorded as part of this migration (although it is also argued the hebrews developed naturally from within the indiginous population), becoming the israelites, as an offshoot of the hebrews, before the Phoenecians (who are mainly based in what is now Lebanon) and Philistines.

Please prove me wrong with properly sourced evidence. Archealogical papers by arab scholars are published in english as are any serious history books.

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Black Red Devil

The entire squabble goes around only a few square kilometres which were given to the Jews in the area, in which their civilisation was historically formed. Jerusalem is certainly their city, and Solomon's temple in it was built by their ancestors - so they want to live there again, and the Europeans admitted they were taken out against their will. To be honest, I just cannot understand the Arab resistance to this. They were supposed to simply let the Jews in to settle, there is no big deal, the Arabs still have enough lands for themselves! What would happen to the Arab world if the Jews continue living there? Nothing!

I agree that Israel has the right to exist, but it's not about the Jews living there. It's about the Palestinians being treated like prisoners in their own land.

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MARAB0D

I agree that Israel has the right to exist, but it's not about the Jews living there. It's about the Palestinians being treated like prisoners in their own land.

But they made themselves prisoners! By electing the terrorists to rule their Gaza strip. West Bank has no problems like they have in Gaza! But even in West Bank they have a certain percentage of such elements, that Jordan refuses to accept these lands because of them, same as Egypt refuses to accept Gaza strip. Arab world is sure rich enough to accommodate or at least support their brethren, but all their support to date is in sending them arms and explosives. Another thing would be if Israel was daily shelling the Palestinian settlements, but this is not the case. The Arabs waged a war, and were hopeless enough to lose it - so now they have to pay for this loss. I mean we cannot look at their Gaza situation without retrospectively observing what caused it in first place.

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Corp

Your starting to sound like Danielost or Aroces now.

For asking a question? :blink:

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Black Red Devil

But they made themselves prisoners! By electing the terrorists to rule their Gaza strip. West Bank has no problems like they have in Gaza! But even in West Bank they have a certain percentage of such elements, that Jordan refuses to accept these lands because of them, same as Egypt refuses to accept Gaza strip. Arab world is sure rich enough to accommodate or at least support their brethren, but all their support to date is in sending them arms and explosives. Another thing would be if Israel was daily shelling the Palestinian settlements, but this is not the case. The Arabs waged a war, and were hopeless enough to lose it - so now they have to pay for this loss. I mean we cannot look at their Gaza situation without retrospectively observing what caused it in first place.

They didn't make themselves prisoners. Hamas isn't blockading their freedom, Israel is, which even the UN condemns. It can't be more clearer than that. Don't get me wrong, I believe Hamas are only a bunch of thugs aggravating the situation with their retrogressive Charter but the fact remains, Israel is in the thick of it and the main pawn and this is recognised worldwide. It's too easy and hypocritical to lay out controlling conditions over the Palestinian population and then wash their hands by saying "theiy're a Self Govt". What a load of bolony, you can't have it both ways. You don't have to shell people to kill them there are many ways and the Jews know this oh so well.

Why would the arab world accept their brethrens? The Palestinians have a right to their own land as much as Israel. Would Russians move aside and accomodate a couple of million Serbs?

Afterall the Jews never conquered this land in the first place. The few Jews that were living there at the time would have never been allowed to form Israel if it wasn't for the UN. They subsequently managed to get enough financial aid to build themselves a neat little army with modern equipment at the time and fend off all their belligerent Arab neighbors. Something the Palestinians never got!!

Not what I'd call an emphatic self achievement to gloat in and proclaim the land is theirs because they've beaten off all their enemies on their own merit.

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil

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Pseudo Intellectual

For asking a question? :blink:

Well, to answer your question: Yes.

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Pseudo Intellectual

Why, do to Reagan?

What? :huh:

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supervike

who is " we " you mean usa ? who put them as defender of world affairs ???

and you make me laugh by saying we should have and we and we

usa DOES not care about the world the only thing they care is to satisfy their endless hunger for oil that is why they invaded iraq if you say otherwise you're in denial and kidding your self

usa claim want to keep the world in peace from nuclear weapons and known it was the " ONLY " country who ever used them on humans ... what a joke

you actually buy this stuff ...

I think you are oversimplifying the entire topic. The USA is not the cause of all your ills.

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Moon Monkey

They didn't make themselves prisoners. Hamas isn't 1)blockading their freedom, Israel is, which even the UN condemns. It can't be more clearer than that. Don't get me wrong, I believe Hamas are only a bunch of thugs aggravating the situation with their retrogressive Charter but the fact remains, Israel is in the thick of it and the main pawn and this is recognised worldwide. It's too easy and hypocritical to lay out controlling conditions over the Palestinian population and then wash their hands by saying "theiy're a Self Govt". What a load of bolony, you can't have it both ways. 2)You don't have to shell people to kill them there are many ways and the Jews know this oh so well.

3)Why would the arab world accept their brethrens? 4)The Palestinians have a right to their own land as much as Israel. Would Russians move aside and accomodate a couple of million Serbs?

Afterall 5)the Jews never conquered this land in the first place. 6)The few Jews that were living there at the time would have never been allowed to form Israel if it wasn't for the UN. They subsequently managed to get enough financial aid to build themselves a neat little army with modern equipment at the time and fend off all their belligerent Arab neighbors. 7)Something the Palestinians never got!!

Not what I'd call an emphatic self achievement to gloat in and proclaim the land is theirs because they've beaten off all their enemies on their own merit.

1) And Egypt is, and by pulling out of Rafah..the EU is.

2) What are these other ways ? The palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza outstripped all non-oil arab countries for every measure of health and wealth during the period of occupation. BTW 'The jews' ? Israel also contains 2 million palestinians.

3) Israel accepted 1.5 million of its brethern that were driven out of arab lands without keeping them in camps with their begging bowls out for 40 years or forming terror organisations.

4) They had a right in 1946, they rejected it. They had it again until 1967...they rejected it again. They had a chance to get Gaza back in 1979, Egypt rejected it and most of the West Bank in 1994 but Jordan rejected it.

5) Really ? I thought that was the problem...or are you talking about biblical times ? Or are you saying they bought it off absentee turkish and arab landowners ?

6) The few ? 800,000 compared with 1.1 million arabs

7) Have you any idea how much money has been given and spent on the palestinians over the last 60 years ?

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Agent X

The blockade is a defensive action because as soon as Hamas was "elected" (and I use the term lightly because there is some concern that they were not elected lawfully), they and other anti-Israel groups started firing Qassam rockets at the Israeli civilian population, and as of 2009 8000 of these rockets had been fired. It's only through sheer luck that there is such a low death rate from them.

It has never been Israel who started the conflict. In fact, the entire conflict is so Shakespearean.

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MARAB0D

They didn't make themselves prisoners. Hamas isn't blockading their freedom, Israel is, which even the UN condemns. It can't be more clearer than that. Don't get me wrong, I believe Hamas are only a bunch of thugs aggravating the situation with their retrogressive Charter but the fact remains, Israel is in the thick of it and the main pawn and this is recognised worldwide. It's too easy and hypocritical to lay out controlling conditions over the Palestinian population and then wash their hands by saying "theiy're a Self Govt". What a load of bolony, you can't have it both ways. You don't have to shell people to kill them there are many ways and the Jews know this oh so well.

Why would the arab world accept their brethrens? The Palestinians have a right to their own land as much as Israel. Would Russians move aside and accomodate a couple of million Serbs?

Afterall the Jews never conquered this land in the first place. The few Jews that were living there at the time would have never been allowed to form Israel if it wasn't for the UN. They subsequently managed to get enough financial aid to build themselves a neat little army with modern equipment at the time and fend off all their belligerent Arab neighbors. Something the Palestinians never got!!

Not what I'd call an emphatic self achievement to gloat in and proclaim the land is theirs because they've beaten off all their enemies on their own merit.

There is nothing unusual historically with accommodating some people, experiencing disaster. These cases are known and not only in Russia's history. People migrate, and are often invited to live elsewhere - say about 200 years ago Russia accommodated a Chinese tribe of Yakuts, which currently reside in North Siberia in their own autonomy (where the famous blue diamonds are mined). The Israelites were accommodated by the Egyptians as per Bible!

Meanwhile regarding the Palestinians Israel expresses statistically supported alternative point of view: those Arabs who were legally residing in Palestine on the moment of the formation of Israel, are all still residing in it and have Israeli citizenship and representation in the Knesset; however when in 1948-49 the first settlers arrived, they found the lands, which they legally PURCHASED before ("blue box" money box, all Jews of the world were for years donating money to buy Holy Land back), occupied by the numerous illegal settlers from Iraq, whom the Arab leaders persuaded to take over the lands in Palestine to prevent the Jews coming. These illegal immigrants were evicted and formed well-known "refugee camps" while none of them could claim any legal connection to these lands. There was no such UN decision to give Israeli citizenship to just any Arab family which was smart enough to squat the lands - hence today's conflict, as they have nowhere to go now.

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