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Persia

It's Time to Get Tough on Iran

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Knight Of Shadows

Well... If 2500 years ago you called a Phoenician "an Arab", you would be probably crucified. Phoenicians were sure Semites, but they had little to do with their junior brothers like Hebrews or Arabs. They were indeed controlling the coastline and ports, as they were sea people, traders - and their main cities were Tyr and Sidon in now-Lebanon, while the land-locked Canaan was a sort of their backyard, in which their poor relatives were feeding their donkeys and camels. Open the Biblical maps - Canaan did not have a single sea port! Phoenicians were the culture, possibly older than the Egyptians, at least the earliest Egyptian records (~10,000 years BC!) were already mentioning them. There is no succession line between the Punes and the modern Arabs or Jews, Phoenicians were a developed civilisation in the times when these two were just feral nomads. Romans destroyed their strongest colony, Carthage,in 190s BC while the metropolis in Tyr surrendered to the Hellenes even earlier. Jews were certainly under some Phoenician influence during the Israelites being in Egypt, as there was a large trading community of the Punes in this country, but at that moment Israelites were just simplistic nomads, dwellers of the desert. Later in Canaan there was hardly any chance to experience this influence at all, as due to their extreme arrogance the Punes simply did not liaise with the Canaanites! To make a parallel, they were feeling among the others like the Americans feel themselves today, the super-heroes surrounded by the humble savages.

The entire squabble goes around only a few square kilometres which were given to the Jews in the area, in which their civilisation was historically formed. Jerusalem is certainly their city, and Solomon's temple in it was built by their ancestors - so they want to live there again, and the Europeans admitted they were taken out against their will. To be honest, I just cannot understand the Arab resistance to this. They were supposed to simply let the Jews in to settle, there is no big deal, the Arabs still have enough lands for themselves! What would happen to the Arab world if the Jews continue living there? Nothing!

sorry i'll have to disagree our history books does not match

and uderstand this : " israel is who don't want the arab living there "

the arab wouldn't really go out shouting if israel were to treat

palestine people as fair as they treat their own the treat them

live slaves they can kick them out when ever it suits them with poor

excuses so is this settled ? "

the arab are ok with israel living there if israel would have treat

people with more human nature but no they want the land all their own

which they didn't originally had like i said our history books does not match

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Pseudo Intellectual

What are your history books?

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regeneratia

The media has recently been rife with speculation about the possibility of a U.S. or Israeli preventive strike on Iran's nuclear infrastructure -- from former CIA Director Michael Hayden's observation last month that the drift toward military action against Iran appears "inexorable" to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm.

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC06.php?CID=1496

Let Iran have it's nukes. Israel has them. We all have them.

Going to war to stop a war is NOT an answer.

Edited by regeneratia

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Knight Of Shadows

There is evidence of population in the land now called Israel dating back 1.4 million years. Cultures such as Yarmukians, Canaaanites and Ghassulians had long established civilisations and cultures before any 'mingling' began with groups from the arab peninsula. The hebrews were first recorded as part of this migration (although it is also argued the hebrews developed naturally from within the indiginous population), becoming the israelites, as an offshoot of the hebrews, before the Phoenecians (who are mainly based in what is now Lebanon) and Philistines.

Please prove me wrong with properly sourced evidence. Archealogical papers by arab scholars are published in english as are any serious history books.

if my memory serve me right and i know it does

i already gave you and your friend Pseudo Intellectual a book

that talks about how the history of palestine has been shrouded and shaded

and how is israel history is faked about the whole thing

and the book offered evidences of histories i don't recall the name

of the book but why should i search for it ? it's not worth it since

i gave it to you once and you didn't even bother to try to read it right ?

and it was written by non arabic writer too

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MARAB0D

sorry i'll have to disagree our history books does not match

and uderstand this : " israel is who don't want the arab living there "

the arab wouldn't really go out shouting if israel were to treat

palestine people as fair as they treat their own the treat them

live slaves they can kick them out when ever it suits them with poor

excuses so is this settled ? "

the arab are ok with israel living there if israel would have treat

people with more human nature but no they want the land all their own

which they didn't originally had like i said our history books does not match

If Israel is the one who don't want the Arabs to live there, then why their census gives the following results?

Ethnic groups:

Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order.

Jewish 76.4% (of which Israel-born 67.1%, Europe/America-born 22.6%, Africa-born 5.9%, Asia-born 4.2%), non-Jewish 23.6% (mostly Arab) (2004)

Religions:

Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order.

Jewish 76.4%, Muslim 16%, Arab Christians 1.7%, other Christian 0.4%, Druze 1.6%, unspecified 3.9% (2004)

...

Legislative branch:

Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order.

unicameral Knesset (120 seats; political parties are elected by popular vote and assigned seats for members on a proportional basis; members serve four-year terms)

elections: last held on 10 February 2009 (next scheduled election to be held in 2013)

election results: percent of vote by party - Kadima 23.2%, Likud-Ahi 22.3%, YB 12.1%, Labor 10.2%, SHAS 8.8%, United Torah Judaism 4.5%, United Arab List 3.5%, NU 3.4%, Hadash 3.4%, The Jewish Home 3%, The New Movement-Meretz 3%, Balad 2.6%; seats by party - Kadima 28, Likud-Ahi 27, YB 15, Labor 13, SHAS 11, United Torah Judaism 5, United Arab List 4, NU 4, HADASH 4, The Jewish Home 3, The New Movement-Meretz 3, Balad 3

Political parties and leaders:

Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order.

Balad [Azmi BISHARA]; Democratic Front for Peace and Equality (HADASH) [Muhammad BARAKEH]; Kadima [Tzipora "Tzipi" LIVNI]; Labor Party [Ehud BARAK]; Likud [binyamin NETANYAHU]; National Union [Yaakov KATZ]; SHAS [Eliyahu YISHAI]; The Jewish Home (HaBayit HaYehudi) [Daniel HERSCHKOWITZ]; The New Movement-Meretz [Haim ORON]; United Arab List-Ta'al [ibrahim SARSUR]; United Torah Judaism or UTJ [Yaakov LITZMAN]; Yisrael Beiteinu or YB [Avigdor LIEBERMAN]

Political pressure groups and leaders:

Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order.

B'Tselem [Jessica MONTELL, Executive Director] monitors human rights abuses; Peace Now [Yariv OPPENHEIMER, Secretary General] supports territorial concessions in the West Bank and Gaza Strip; YESHA Council of Settlements [Danny DAYAN, Chairman] promotes settler interests and opposes territorial compromise; Breaking the Silence [Yehuda SHAUL, Executive Director] collects testimonies from soldiers who served in the West Bank and Gaza Strip

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html

Even back in 70s in USSR I had multiple Palestinian (what nationality is that???) college mates, who were all happy carriers of Israeli passport and citizenship, despite some of them for travelling purposes were preferring Canadian papers. Israel is just a modern European-style state, in which the citizens are not anyhow segregated on ethnic or religious grounds - but sure, it is not allowed in it to blow up the school buses or to shell the cities with Kassam missiles, I hope you would be able to name such state which sees these activities as legal and tolerated.

Edited by MARAB0D

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Knight Of Shadows

lol that's halirious ... every few days arabic people kicked of

their home claiming that they don't own that land even though

they lived on it for hundred of years

and what world are you living in ??

how come israel is allowed to blow up schools and homes regardless

of children and families living in them so israel doing it ok

but if resistence fire back it's terrorism you have odd view of things

if israel fired missles it's self defence

if palestinian resistence fired missles it's terrorism

is that it ?

Edited by Knight Of Shadows

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MichaelW

What are your history books?

He's from Syria I think, so that explains it.

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Knight Of Shadows

that's right our history books in syria shows better describtions

of what happened in palestine say .. better than usa history books ?

palestine are on our border so i guess we'll know better than what

other people might know about it .. anyway i will say no more about

the topic since we got off the topic at hands which is iran

you're welcome to discuss things in my new topic though :D

and yeah michael syrian and proud to be

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MARAB0D

lol that's halirious ... every few days arabic people kicked of

their home claiming that they don't own that land even though

they lived on it for hundred of years

and what world are you living in ??

how come israel is allowed to blow up schools and homes regardless

of children and families living in them so israel doing it ok

but if resistence fire back it's terrorism you have odd view of things

if israel fired missles it's self defence

if palestinian resistence fired missles it's terrorism

is that it ?

The former part of this claim may well be true - and someone really gets kicked of their home - but where is the confirmation to the latter part of the claim? That this was their own land on which they were living for centuries? The land ownership usually goes with a heap of paperwork, and I am unaware of a single complain to any international court about the illegal land alienation in Israel! For sure, if someone owned the land for centuries, this someone must have some ownership certificate or at least some evidence which verifies this ownership! Say, I am caught driving your own car, and am claiming it to be mine - but refusing to produce any papers, what would he cops think?

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MARAB0D

that's right our history books in syria shows better describtions

of what happened in palestine say .. better than usa history books ?

palestine are on our border so i guess we'll know better than what

other people might know about it .. anyway i will say no more about

the topic since we got off the topic at hands which is iran

you're welcome to discuss things in my new topic though :D

and yeah michael syrian and proud to be

To be completely honest, it is Iran with the current involvement into internal Israeli issues, who is off topic here, not we! I still cannot see the connection between Iran and Palestinians (neither do I see any connection between them and Syria!). This all happens well outside of Iran's and Syria's borders. Syria may sure have Golan heights issue with Israel, but this is not directly related to the Palestinian case - while Iran does not even has this, as statistically there is no Persians in Israel!

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Moon Monkey

if my memory serve me right and i know it does

i already gave you and your friend Pseudo Intellectual a book

that talks about how the history of palestine has been shrouded and shaded

and how is israel history is faked about the whole thing

and the book offered evidences of histories i don't recall the name

of the book but why should i search for it ? it's not worth it since

i gave it to you once and you didn't even bother to try to read it right ?

and it was written by non arabic writer too

So as usual, no contradiction, no evidence, no proof, no source ..... nothing. And it seems you believe 'I can't be bothered, it is not worth it' is a position that can be held in debate.

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Black Red Devil

1) And Egypt is, and by pulling out of Rafah..the EU is.

2) What are these other ways ? The palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza outstripped all non-oil arab countries for every measure of health and wealth during the period of occupation. BTW 'The jews' ? Israel also contains 2 million palestinians.

3) Israel accepted 1.5 million of its brethern that were driven out of arab lands without keeping them in camps with their begging bowls out for 40 years or forming terror organisations.

4) They had a right in 1946, they rejected it. They had it again until 1967...they rejected it again. They had a chance to get Gaza back in 1979, Egypt rejected it and most of the West Bank in 1994 but Jordan rejected it.

5) Really ? I thought that was the problem...or are you talking about biblical times ? Or are you saying they bought it off absentee turkish and arab landowners ?

6) The few ? 800,000 compared with 1.1 million arabs

7) Have you any idea how much money has been given and spent on the palestinians over the last 60 years ?

1) Sure Egypt closed the Rafah crossing. Thanks to the $3.2 billion F-16 deal that was approved by US Congress. Again, the US financially assisting Israel in their quest for enslavement of Palestinians and domination in the region.

2) Really??!! There are 46% of Palestinians (including refugees kicked off their land by Israel) who are living under poverty levels in Jordan, Lebanon etc. But obviously you want to talk only about the ones living in Isreal so here you go....

Since 2002, WFP has been providing food assistance to oPt. Its current operation (2007-2009) provides food aid to around 700,000 of the most vulnerable non-refugee population in the West Bank and Gaza. WFP recently expanded the number of people it is helping in Gaza to 300,000 from about 250,000.

My link

Despite its obligation under international law to ensure the welfare of the Palestinian civilian population under occupation, Israel's system of water distribution in the West Bank severely discriminates against the Palestinian population, and fails to provide Palestinian residents with an adequate and safe water supply. Nearly all of the Palestinian residents of the West Bank receive insufficient supplies of water – with some having access to inadequate amounts and others completely cut off from running water.

Israel controls 85% of the water supply in the West Bank, yet the method of distribution is sharply unequal.

My link

Arab citizens of Israel face entrenched discrimination in all fields of life. In recent years, the prevalent attitude of hostility and mistrust toward Arab citizens has become more pronounced, with large sections of the Israeli public viewing the Arab minority as both a fifth column and a demographic threat. In addition, there exist glaring socioeconomic differences between the Jewish and Arab population groups, particularly with regard to land, urban planning, housing, infrastructure, economic development and education. Over half of the poor families in Israel are Arab families, and Arab municipalities constitute the poorest municipalities in Israel.

My link

Despite its obligation under international humanitarian law to ensure the welfare of the Palestinian civilian population under occupation, Israel's planning policies severely discriminate against the Palestinian population in the West Bank and violate their fundamental right to housing and development.

My link

3) Yep, thats right, they ran back to their Promised Land. While in doing so, the Israeli Govt found some local turf for them by kicking the Palestinians off it. Psst, by the way, it still goes on....

4) Hard to argue with that. So I suppose they should be thanking their lucky stars they're living under the "protection" and "guidannce" of the Israeli Govt who is looking after their wellbeing. :P

5 & 6) That sure is the problem buddy. They were allowed to create the State of Israel in a place surrounded by Arabs thanks to the merciful actions of the UN, which now they spit on. Infact that was the ultimate solution to protect the Jews because of the increasing revolts and riots by the Arabs who were fed up with Jewish immigrants constantly flocking to the land under British rule. In the 1920's Jews only constituted about 10% of the population in the British Mandate and by the end of WWII approximately 30%. So my point is, it's easy to flex your muscles with an unarmed population & reduced to poverty, thanks to the protection and overwhelming assistance in the last 70 years, initially from the UN and ever since from, arguably, the strongest nation on this planet during these 70 years. Whilst in the process, forgetting what happened when they themselves were being persecuted around Europe, unwanted by everyone, discriminated, without a land to live on and reduced to desperation. I'd have quite a few names for people like this but I'll refrain otherwise I might get banned.

I don't care what you might think but I'm not anti-jewish or antisemitic and I don't believe all Israeli's are unaffected by the Palestinian sufferings. I just hate this hypocritical, cold blooded and cynical attitude by some Israeli's.

7) How bout some links? And while you're at it, enlighten us with some links on how much Israel has been given in the same period.

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Black Red Devil

There is nothing unusual historically with accommodating some people, experiencing disaster. These cases are known and not only in Russia's history. People migrate, and are often invited to live elsewhere - say about 200 years ago Russia accommodated a Chinese tribe of Yakuts, which currently reside in North Siberia in their own autonomy (where the famous blue diamonds are mined). The Israelites were accommodated by the Egyptians as per Bible!

Sorry mate, you lost me here....

Meanwhile regarding the Palestinians Israel expresses statistically supported alternative point of view: those Arabs who were legally residing in Palestine on the moment of the formation of Israel, are all still residing in it and have Israeli citizenship and representation in the Knesset; however when in 1948-49 the first settlers arrived, they found the lands, which they legally PURCHASED before ("blue box" money box, all Jews of the world were for years donating money to buy Holy Land back), occupied by the numerous illegal settlers from Iraq, whom the Arab leaders persuaded to take over the lands in Palestine to prevent the Jews coming. These illegal immigrants were evicted and formed well-known "refugee camps" while none of them could claim any legal connection to these lands. There was no such UN decision to give Israeli citizenship to just any Arab family which was smart enough to squat the lands - hence today's conflict, as they have nowhere to go now.

So you believe this is what the Israeli-Palestinian war has always been about. Some squatters living on property bought by rich overseas jews during the British rule?

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Moon Monkey

1) Sure Egypt closed the Rafah crossing. Thanks to the $3.2 billion F-16 deal that was approved by US Congress. Again, the US financially assisting Israel in their quest for enslavement of Palestinians and domination in the region.

2) Really??!! There are 46% of Palestinians (including refugees kicked off their land by Israel) who are living under poverty levels in Jordan, Lebanon etc. But obviously you want to talk only about the ones living in Isreal so here you go....

My link

My link

My link

My link

3) Yep, thats right, they ran back to their Promised Land. While in doing so, the Israeli Govt found some local turf for them by kicking the Palestinians off it. Psst, by the way, it still goes on....

4) Hard to argue with that. So I suppose they should be thanking their lucky stars they're living under the "protection" and "guidannce" of the Israeli Govt who is looking after their wellbeing. :P

5 & 6) That sure is the problem buddy. They were allowed to create the State of Israel in a place surrounded by Arabs thanks to the merciful actions of the UN, which now they spit on. Infact that was the ultimate solution to protect the Jews because of the increasing revolts and riots by the Arabs who were fed up with Jewish immigrants constantly flocking to the land under British rule. In the 1920's Jews only constituted about 10% of the population in the British Mandate and by the end of WWII approximately 30%. So my point is, it's easy to flex your muscles with an unarmed population & reduced to poverty, thanks to the protection and overwhelming assistance in the last 70 years, initially from the UN and ever since from, arguably, the strongest nation on this planet during these 70 years. Whilst in the process, forgetting what happened when they themselves were being persecuted around Europe, unwanted by everyone, discriminated, without a land to live on and reduced to desperation. I'd have quite a few names for people like this but I'll refrain otherwise I might get banned.

I don't believe all Israeli's are unaffected by the Palestinian sufferings. I just hate this hypocritical, cold blooded and cynical attitude by some Israeli's.

7) How bout some links? And while you're at it, enlighten us with some links on how much Israel has been given in the same period.

1) Egypt can open and close the border at will as has been shown recently. And the EU....?

2) That doesn't change the fact that the palestinians living under occupation outstripped all non-arab countries for every measure of health and wealth as reported by the UNHCR.

3) Again, 1.5 million jewish refugees, 800,000 arab refugees ... their arab brethern could have given them 2 homes each.

4) Nothing to do with 'lucky stars', the arabs have repeatedly rejected either a state in the West Bank and Gaza or the absorbtion of these areas into their own countries.

5&6) Were a reply to 'the Jews never conquered this land in the first place. The few Jews that were living there', the specifics of how the jews came to own so much of the land and immigrate in such numbers are not relevent here but can be discussed elsewhere as a seperate issue if you wish. The creation of Israel thing has been done to death in this forum but if you drag up an old thread I will happily go through it with you.

7) Again, you said palestinians never got any financial aid, I think you should prove this or do some research. How much do you think has been spent by the international community just on food, clothes, medicene and housing over the last 60 years whilst their arab brethern leave them as refugees never mind the cash that has flowed through their hands ?. I know exactly how much Israel has received and is receiving....again it is all linked within this forum, I remember going through it quite recently, so you are welcome to bring up an old thread.

Edited by Moon Monkey

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Knight Of Shadows

ohh i might add ejypt present is bought by USA

his price was 300 million dollar every year under the cover of

" Aid " hehehe it's halirious

he don't act before taking premission from his ... buyers

is it clear enough or shall i said it louder ? :D

THE PRESIDENT OF EJYPT GET MONEY FOR KEEPING THE BORDERS CLOSE

... until his buyers tell him other wise

geez wake up

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Moon Monkey

As I said, since Rafah is opened whenever they want, maybe they should ask for their money back.

BTW are you sure this aid isn't a committment under Camp David and Oslo ? Sure ?

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Brakzar Break

Even if they acquired nukes, I doubt they would have long range. Wait... India is right there... Hmmm. :mellow:

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Knight Of Shadows

As I said, since Rafah is opened whenever they want, maybe they should ask for their money back.

BTW are you sure this aid isn't a committment under Camp David and Oslo ? Sure ?

uh uh uh read carefully

he heep them close untill he's been told other wise .. don't just

cut and past certain parts of the post coz guess what

you might find the asnwer you seek in the next line :D

like this one

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Black Red Devil

1) Egypt can open and close the border at will as has been shown recently. And the EU....?

2) That doesn't change the fact that the palestinians living under occupation outstripped all non-arab countries for every measure of health and wealth as reported by the UNHCR.

3) Again, 1.5 million jewish refugees, 800,000 arab refugees ... their arab brethern could have given them 2 homes each.

4) Nothing to do with 'lucky stars', the arabs have repeatedly rejected either a state in the West Bank and Gaza or the absorbtion of these areas into their own countries.

5&6) Were a reply to 'the Jews never conquered this land in the first place. The few Jews that were living there', the specifics of how the jews came to own so much of the land and immigrate in such numbers are not relevent here but can be discussed elsewhere as a seperate issue if you wish. The creation of Israel thing has been done to death in this forum but if you drag up an old thread I will happily go through it with you.

7) Again, you said palestinians never got any financial aid, I think you should prove this or do some research. How much do you think has been spent by the international community just on food, clothes, medicene and housing over the last 60 years whilst their arab brethern leave them as refugees never mind the cash that has flowed through their hands ?. I know exactly how much Israel has received and is receiving....again it is all linked within this forum, I remember going through it quite recently, so you are welcome to bring up an old thread.

1) Good try but the EU has nothing to do with this. They're only there on a monitoring mission and for that matter EU officials in recent times have been urging Israel to ease the blockade.

2) Well not thanks to the Israeli Govt that's for sure. And who are these "non-arab" countries they've supposedly outstripped?

3) LOL, I'm afraid that's not the solution nor the answer my friend.

4) I'd be curious to know, is that the West Bank with the Jewish settlers or without? Is that Gaza with their own military or controlled by Israel?

5) It was relevant to the point made by Marabod " The Arabs waged a war, and were hopeless enough to lose it - so now they have to pay for this loss. I mean we cannot look at their Gaza situation without retrospectively observing what caused it in first place."

7) See, I've been over this with you in the past. You like to keep your cards close to your chest too often. I supply links, you never do. And I'm not playing little kiddy games like "you said this so you go first" :rolleyes:

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil

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Moon Monkey

Huh ? Is that a reply ?

oops sorry devil we posted at the same time, that was for the one above you.

Edited by Moon Monkey

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Moon Monkey

1) Good try but the EU has nothing to do with this. They're only there on a monitoring mission and for that matter EU officials in recent times have been urging Israel to ease the blockade.

2) Well not thanks to the Israeli Govt that's for sure. And who are these "non-arab" countries they've supposedly outstripped?

3) LOL, I'm afraid that's not the solution nor the answer my friend.

4) I'd be curious to know, is that the West Bank with the Jewish settlers or without? Is that Gaza with their own military or controlled by Israel?

5) It was relevant to the point made by Marabod " The Arabs waged a war, and were hopeless enough to lose it - so now they have to pay for this loss. I mean we cannot look at their Gaza situation without retrospectively observing what caused it in first place."

7) See, I've been over this with you in the past. You like to keep your cards close to your chest too often. I supply links, you never do. And I'm not playing little kiddy games like "you said this so you go first" :rolleyes:

1) The lack of the international monitoring mission was one of the reasons the egyptians closed it in the first place. Israel has recently been easing its blockade, as you know, and Egypt has recently opened the border, as you know.

2) Sorry I meant non-oil rich arab countries.

3) But it is a question.

4) That depends on which chance you are talking about 46, 67, 79, 94, 2006 or now ..... facts on the ground change.

5&6) I can only repeat what I already said. If you want to really go into it bring up one of the other threads on that topic.

7) If you say so. I don't think you would have to delve very deep into the internet to find a link about financial support to the palestinians. Hasn't another $8 billion recently been pledged ? BTW Red Why does all the aid always seem to come from the west, how many hundreds of billions have the oil arabs given ? Or did they spend it all on gold jumbo jets ?

Edited by Moon Monkey

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MARAB0D

Sorry mate, you lost me here....

So you believe this is what the Israeli-Palestinian war has always been about. Some squatters living on property bought by rich overseas jews during the British rule?

The frictions have religious background - the Arabs are dreaming of Caliphate, and Jerusalem for them is a symbol of their victory over the Europeans in the Crusades. They see the incoming Jews also as Europeans, as an alien culture plus they have another religion. So they were opposing the re-settling and encouraging their poor to move to Palestine and squat the lands. All those in Gaza are living in the refugee camps, and their fathers became refugees because they were evicted from the lands they squatted in Palestine. You refuse to admit the simple facts of the common domain, that no one ever was evicting the Arabs who were really living in Israel, these families are all Israeli citizens now and enjoy full rights. Look at France - they are deporting the Gypsies, illegally living in the country, so why Israel cannot do the same to the Arab immigrants? Australia also was deporting the Chinese in 1930s and USA deports Mexicans! Every state, Jewish or not, wants to have only legal population.

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Stardrive

7) Again, you said palestinians never got any financial aid,

Dont tell me you said that BRLD.. :lol: Trust me don't go there. Besides no amount of money you throw at this is going to make the conflict go away. It aint about the money.

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Black Red Devil

4) That depends on which chance you are talking about 46, 67, 79, 94, 2006 or now ..... facts on the ground change.

Now?

7) If you say so. I don't think you would have to delve very deep into the internet to find a link about financial support to the palestinians. Hasn't another $8 billion recently been pledged ? BTW Red Why does all the aid always seem to come from the west, how many hundreds of billions have the oil arabs given ? Or did they spend it all on gold jumbo jets ?

The International community have been provided approximately 4.5 billion dollars in financial aid to the Palestinian Authority since 1994. Straight from the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the arab countries provide the PA with 45 million US dollars a month while the EU provides them 8 million. Where does this money go? In humanitarian expenses unfortunately because they haven't got a chance to build their own economy because Israel blockades them.

Also, just to put it in perspective, the US has been providing Israel with financial aid since 1949 (approximately 84 billion US and an extra 9 in loan grants). In the last 2 years they've provided Israel with more financial aid than the whole world community has given the PA in 16 years.

Some interesting articles from My link Moon. But I'm sure you knew a lot of it.

Israel's GNP is higher than the combined GNP of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza. With a per capita income of about $14,000, Israel ranks as the sixteenth wealthiest country in the world;Since 1949 the U.S. has given Israel a total of $83.205 billion.

The interest costs borne by U.S. tax payers on behalf of Israel are $49.937 billion, thus making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $133.132 billion. This may mean that U.S. government has given more federal aid to the average Israeli citizen in a given year than it has given to the average American citizen. I am angry when I see Israeli settlers from Hebron destroy improvements made to Shuhada Street with my tax money. Also, it angers me that my government is giving over $10 billion to a country that is more prosperous than most of the other countries in the world and uses much of its money for strengthening its military and the oppression of the Palestinian people.

Even excluding all of these extra costs, America's $84.8 billion in aid to Israel from fiscal years 1949 through 1998, and the interest the U.S. paid to borrow this money, has cost U.S. taxpayers $134.8 billion, not adjusted for inflation. Or, put another way, the nearly $14,630 every one of 5.8 million Israelis received from the U.S. government by Oct. 31, 1997 has cost American taxpayers $23,240 per Israeli.

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Black Red Devil

Dont tell me you said that BRLD.. :lol: Trust me don't go there. Besides no amount of money you throw at this is going to make the conflict go away. It aint about the money.

I was generalising mate and exaggerating in my comparison to what Israel gets.

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