Without us this sacrilige cannot be built.

[Wookietim]

Don't you think those who want to build a mosque near ground zero are religious bigots?

Actually, since they have publicly said that everyone, regardless of religion, will be welcome into the community center.... No, I don't think they are religious bigots.

[Michelle]

I've asked this in other threads - once the towers (or what ever) are rebuilt, will we "allow" Arabic/Muslim owned companies to occupy the space?

Nibs

I haven't heard of any problems with any businesses that are owned by Muslims that are already in the area. I can almost guarantee that Muslims have been operating business there as usual and opening new ones. I know there are quite a few of them in Tribeca. (one of the little neighborhoods that was greatly effected.)

The significance of a mosque is an entirely different thing.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Michelle

[+HerNibs]

I'm still not sure if the mosque was meant to be a deliberate provocation?

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Mischief+Manhattan/3370303/story.html

New York currently boasts at least 30 mosques so it's not as if there is pressing need to find space for worshippers. The fact we Muslims know the idea behind the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation to thumb our noses at the infidel. The proposal has been made in bad faith and in Islamic parlance, such an act is referred to as "Fitna," meaning "mischief-making" that is clearly forbidden in the Koran.

The Koran commands Muslims to, "Be considerate when you debate with the People of the Book" -- i.e., Jews and Christians. Building an exclusive place of worship for Muslims at the place where Muslims killed thousands of New Yorkers is not being considerate or sensitive, it is undoubtedly an act of "fitna"

(Gallery: Remembering the tragedy of 9/11)

So what gives Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the "Cordoba Initiative" and his cohorts the misplaced idea that they will increase tolerance for Muslims by brazenly displaying their own intolerance in this case?

Do they not understand that building a mosque at Ground Zero is equivalent to permitting a Serbian Orthodox church near the killing fields of Srebrenica where 8,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered?

There are many questions that we would like to ask. Questions about where the funding is coming from? If this mosque is being funded by Saudi sources, then it is an even bigger slap in the face of Americans, as nine of the jihadis in the Twin Tower calamity were Saudis.

cont...

In my opinion I would say that no, it's not being built as a provocation.

Many Jewish groups support it.

30 mosques really isn't that many.

Heck, just here is a story about some one visiting the 96 Catholic Churches in Manhattan.

I have a bit of an issue with those that are saying the Saudi's should be allowed to help fund it.

Saudi Refining to donate for Katrina -

Saudi Refining, Inc., a the Houston-based subsidiary of Saudi Aramco, has announced that it will donate U.S. $5 million to the American Red Cross to support relief efforts for victims of Hurricane Katrina.

"We support the Red Cross in its tireless efforts to meet the urgent needs of those who have been so tragically affected by Hurricane Katrina, including the thousands of people temporarily sheltered in Houston," said Sharaf M. Salamah, president and chief executive officer of the Houston-based Saudi Refining. "Our thoughts and prayers are with those who have been impacted by the storm and its aftermath," Salamah added.

From the Hurricane Katrina International Aid Response by Country -

Each countries donations and offers of aid.

Nibs

[Wookietim]

I haven't heard of any problems with any businesses that are owned by Muslims that are already in the area. I can almost guarantee that Muslims have been operating business there as usual and opening new ones. I know there are quite a few of them in Tribeca.

The significance of a mosque is an entirely different thing.

The funny thing being is that this building is a community center that will contain a room that can be used as a Mosque - it is not just one big Mosque. And it's a community center where people of all religions will be welcomed... it is hardly even a "Muslim Community Center."

So I am finding it difficult to take the idea that people are upset over the true facts of this rather than over the right wing hype about it.

[questionmark]

The significance of a mosque is an entirely different thing.

You all pretend that this mosque would be on ground zero (which in my opinion would be no problem either): The building place of this mosque is two blocks away, New York size blocks!

This has nothing to do with mosques, but is about riling the uninformed.

Edited August 20, 2010 by questionmark

[+HerNibs]

I haven't heard of any problems with any businesses that are owned by Muslims that are already in the area. I can almost guarantee that Muslims have been operating business there as usual and opening new ones. I know there are quite a few of them in Tribeca. (one of the little neighborhoods that was greatly effected.)

The significance of a mosque is an entirely different thing.

I haven't heard any either. I've been back several times and people of all flavors and colors are still doing the NY thing.

It isn't just a mosque, it's a community center open to everyone that will have an area/room as a prayer center or mosque.

From what I read there will also be a culinary school with a restaurant.

Nibs

[Wookietim]

You all pretend that this mosque would be on ground zero (which in my Opinion would be no problem either): The building place of this mosque is two blocks away, New York size blocks!

This has nothing to do with mosques, but is about riling the uninformed.

Just to point out this - Two blocks in NYC is half a mile. I think that is plenty far enough away for a community center that is open to all religions and has only one room that can be used as a Mosque in it. Unless, of course, the person objecting is not really objecting based only on the placement but more on the religion.

So here is a question - if a Roman Catholic church was being built in that same location, would there be a public outcry? If the answer is "No", then we have to assume that the objection is based on opposition to religion rather than any other criteria.

[Agent X]

You might want to look into the people and groups that are actually putting this junk out.

Such as:

My link

My link

My link

My link

You'll notice that the majority of the people who are protesting are actually conservative Christians.

[Siara]

The Muslim religion is one of our country's religions and has been for a long time. Using this 9/11 tragedy as an excuse to launch a latter day crusade is wrong. That specific builder building that specific mosque in that specific place seems questionable to me but making this about Islam in America is ridiculous.

[Michelle]

You all pretend that this mosque would be on ground zero (which in my opinion would be no problem either): The building place of this mosque is two blocks away, New York size blocks!

This has nothing to do with mosques, but is about riling the uninformed.

No, you are going on the assumption that I think the mosque is going to built on ground zero...I never said that. I am familiar with the area in question. I also have not said that I agree or disagree with it as I have not made up my mind.

I'm only interested in the facts and am for the most part, trying to ignore the emotional rhetoric.

And yes, I also know they are calling it a community center and not a mosque.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Michelle

[questionmark]

No, you are going on the assumption that I think the mosque is going to built on ground zero...I never said that. I am familiar with the area in question. I also have not said that I agree or disagree with it as I have not made up my mind.

I'm only interested in the facts and am for the most part, trying to ignore the emotional rhetoric.

Then I don't see why you are falling for the extreme right Christian fanatic march and drum.

[Michelle]

Then I don't see why you are falling for the extreme right Christian fanatic march and drum.

To make an informed opinion you have to look at both sides and usually the truth in somewhere in the middle.

[hetrodoxly]

Actually, since they have publicly said that everyone, regardless of religion, will be welcome into the community center.... No, I don't think they are religious bigots.

Hollow words, you can go in any mosque anyway (as you can a church) it will be a place of Islamic religious study, England's full of Saudi financed centres where they preach kill the Kaffer, don't befriend the infidel, you can enter these as well.

[TFSM]

To make an informed opinion you have to look at both sides and usually the truth in somewhere in the middle.

In this case, the truth is very, very far from the right-wing depiction.

And yes, I also know they are calling it a community center and not a mosque.

What proof to the contrary do you have to think this is going to be anything other than what they say it's going to be? The reason I ask is because this sentence seems to indicate that you don't entirely believe that it's going to be a community center.

[Wookietim]

Hollow words, you can go in any mosque anyway (as you can a church) it will be a place of Islamic religious study, England's full of Saudi financed centres where they preach kill the Kaffer, don't befriend the infidel, you can enter these as well.

This is not a Mosque. It is a building that contains one room devoted to Muslim prayers. That one room can be called a Mosque, but there are other rooms also in the building.

[TFSM]

Hollow words, you can go in any mosque anyway (as you can a church) it will be a place of Islamic religious study, England's full of Saudi financed centres where they preach kill the Kaffer, don't befriend the infidel, you can enter these as well.

What's with all the rage about Saudi Arabia? A little off topic, but did you know that the second largest shareholder of Newscorp (owner of Fox News) is Prince Alwalee bin Talal al-Saud? Ironic, isn't it?

Prince Alwaleed bin Talal al-Saud of Saudi Arabia, through his Kingdom Holding Company, owns 7% of News Corp.'s shares, making Kingdom Holdings the second largest shareholder.[21][22][23]

[Michelle]

In this case, the truth is very, very far from the right-wing depiction.

What proof to the contrary do you have to think this is going to be anything other than what they say it's going to be? The reason I ask is because this sentence seems to indicate that you don't entirely believe that it's going to be a community center.

The link that I provided was a direct quote from a Muslim.

I have no proof and I would like to see the blueprints/plans for the building before making any assumptions. I don't entirely believe what I'm hearing from either side. There is such a thing as lying by omission and everyone uses it to get what they want.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Michelle

[Purplos]

It seems some of these people protesting it forget that Muslims also died in the WTC disaster. Muslim blood is all mixed in with the Christian blood, Jewish blood, atheist blood, pagan blood, whatever on that 'hallowed ground.'

Some people I see on TV screaming about it and waving around Jesus signs "Christian Nation" and all that seem to think that a giant church was bombed and not some high rise office buildings.

[Wookietim]

It seems some of these people protesting it forget that Muslims also died in the WTC disaster. Muslim blood is all mixed in with the Christian blood, Jewish blood, atheist blood, pagan blood, whatever on that 'hallowed ground.'

Some people I see on TV screaming about it and waving around Jesus signs "Christian Nation" and all that seem to think that a giant church was bombed and not some high rise office buildings.

Well, considering that some on the far right seem to worship the almighty dollar, perhaps to them the WTC was a gigantic church...

[supervike]

I don't think it's right to say that everyone that disagrees with building of this particular mosque are bigots. Although, the ones that are bigots are jumping on the bandwagon.

Sorry, but what else could it be rather than bigotry?

[+OverSword]

The American Muslim

TONS of links at the above link

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

More links

US Muslims Condemn Attack

More quotes at the link.

Nibs

_____________

ETA - Q&A with Sharif el-Gamal about Park51

Thanks for the link nibs.

People, truely this is an issue for the residents of NYC. The owners of the land have the right to build whatever they want as long as the zoning permits. After all of the feedback from New Yorkers, the majority "man on the street types" are opposed. This should not be the determining factor in this type of thing, but if I was in charge of this project, and looking to spread good will and a sense of community I personally would have changed locations by now. With that in mind let's not get our panties in a bunch when this guy, who is obviously a very stubborn person, builds it regardless of public opinion. Because he is going to. And I admit, if they are done with it by the next time I go to NYC, I will check it out.

[Michelle]

Sorry, but what else could it be rather than bigotry?

Look, I posted a link with a quote from a Muslim, that told what the attitude of some Muslims are. If, can I say IF again, to make it clear...IF that is the reason for the "community center" I would oppose it. Undoubtedly, there are some Muslims that feel like it would be a trophy and I'm not entirely sure this guy wants to put it there for the reasons he states.

[+HerNibs]

Thanks for the link nibs.

People, truely this is an issue for the residents of NYC. The owners of the land have the right to build whatever they want as long as the zoning permits. After all of the feedback from New Yorkers, the majority "man on the street types" are opposed. This should not be the determining factor in this type of thing, but if I was in charge of this project, and looking to spread good will and a sense of community I personally would have changed locations by now. With that in mind let's not get our panties in a bunch when this guy, who is obviously a very stubborn person, builds it regardless of public opinion. Because he is going to. And I admit, if they are done with it by the next time I go to NYC, I will check it out.

I agree that it is a New York issue and probably would have stayed as such if some one hadn't started the entire "MOSQUE AT GROUND ZERO!! OMG!!" rant.

IMO- there is a great many people denouncing the mosque based on bad information.

Now- let me say, my husband is against it emotionally but is willing to support it because he said that there is no good reason other than bad feelings to be against it.

I FULLY understand that.

Nibs

[Wookietim]

Look, I posted a link with a quote from a Muslim, that told what the attitude of some Muslims are. If, can I say IF again, to make it clear...IF that is the reason for the "community center" I would oppose it. Undoubtedly, there are some Muslims that feel like it would be a trophy and I'm not entirely sure this guy wants to put it there for the reasons he states.

And there are some Americans that feel like stopping the building of this community center would be a "victory" against the Muslim religion. Are we to assume in any way that their bigotry is shared by all US citizens?

I can show a quote by "A American" that would be very bigoted. Is there any way that you would assume even the possibility that that one person speaks for all of us?

[+HerNibs]

Look, I posted a link with a quote from a Muslim, that told what the attitude of some Muslims are. If, can I say IF again, to make it clear...IF that is the reason for the "community center" I would oppose it. Undoubtedly, there are some Muslims that feel like it would be a trophy and I'm not entirely sure this guy wants to put it there for the reasons he states.

If Sharif el-Gamal is not what he is appears to be then it's really too late for him to gain any kind of "victory" out of any of this.

He isn't and won't be the sole person incharge of it. They will have a board.

We are in the process of forming a non-profit and applying for 501©3 federal tax-exempt status and have begun recruiting an advisory board. As the non-profit takes shape, we will establish an appropriate governance structure. We will work with our partners, allies and supporters to best reflect the needs of Lower Manhattan.

Too many people are watching the outcome of this right now. I don't think there will be an shenanigans. Now, will there be horrible rumors? You betcha! But I don't think there will be any real problems.

Nibs