Saru Posted August 28, 2010 #1 Share Posted August 28, 2010 The discovery, called the "Los Lunas Decalogue Stone," was first acknowledged in 1933 by professor Frank Hibben, an archaeologist from the University of New Mexico. Hibben is said to have been led to the stone by an unnamed guide who claimed to have found it as a boy in the 1880s.Also known as the Los Lunas Mystery Stone or Commandment Rock, the stone appears to bare an ancient inscription in either Greek or Hebrew, and has left many wondering if it's proof that Mediterranean peoples came to North America thousands of years ago. Read more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Spartan Posted August 28, 2010 #2 Share Posted August 28, 2010 (edited) The same Los Lunas stone was under discussion last week at UM topic A write up at Doug's Archaeology Site about the stone gives reasons as to why it should be and must be considered as a Hoax. Edited August 28, 2010 by The Spartan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted August 28, 2010 #3 Share Posted August 28, 2010 But the question is to be answered affirmatively: Columbus was Italian, which is on the Mediterranean and his crew was mostly Spanish, who also is located on the Mediterranean. So as far as recorded history goes: YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clobhair-cean Posted August 28, 2010 #4 Share Posted August 28, 2010 But the question is to be answered affirmatively: Columbus was Italian, which is on the Mediterranean and his crew was mostly Spanish, who also is located on the Mediterranean. So as far as recorded history goes: YES You forgot about Leif Ericson, who was anything but Mediterranean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salami Swami Posted August 28, 2010 #5 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Much like Egyptians, rumored to have inhabited the Grand Canyon, wtf? when did this happen? theyre trying to spice up american hitory too much in my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farandaway Posted August 28, 2010 #6 Share Posted August 28, 2010 (edited) I thought it was widely accepted that Columbus was far from the first explorer to discover the 'New World'(though he may have been the first to talk about it). Edited August 28, 2010 by farandaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreck7 Posted August 28, 2010 #7 Share Posted August 28, 2010 If this was found on the east coast of either north or south America I might find it plausible. But Los Lunas,New Mexico? Give me a break. At the most it might be a decendant of some Spainiard messing with peoples head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted August 28, 2010 #8 Share Posted August 28, 2010 (edited) I know what I'm going to say now is fiercely disputed, but there have been found some figurines (Veracruz, Mexico) and other artifacts in the Americas that point to contact with Romans and Phoenicians. But that was all: no skeletons or ships or big statues or whatever. Just tiny things. I posted about this in another forum here, and I had a link to image of a small, very Roman looking head of a bearded man. The story is that in 1933, Mexican archaeologist Jose García Payón was excavating near Toluca, Mexico, at a site continuously occupied beginning somewhere between 1300-800 B.C. until 1510 A.D. when the settlement was destroyed by the Aztec emperor Moctecuhzoma Xocoyotzin (aka Montezuma). The site has been abandoned since that date, although some cultivation of nearby farm fields has taken place. In one of the burials located at the site, García Payón found what is now agreed to be a terracotta figurine head of Roman manufacture, 3 cm (about 2 inches) long by 1 cm (about a half inch) across. Art historians securely date the figurine head as having been made about 200 A.D.; thermoluminescence dating of the object provides a date of 1780 ± 400 b.p., which supports the art historian dating. After several years of banging his head on academic journal editorial boards, Hristov succeeded in getting Ancient Mesoamerica to publish his article, which describes the artifact and its context. Based on the evidence provided in that article, there seems to be no doubt that the artifact is a genuine Roman artifact, in an archaeological context that predates Cortes. http://archaeology.about.com/cs/ethics/a/context_2.htm Btw, because nothing else of these Romans was found, I suggested HERE that it was something of a souvenir that the Aztecs or another Meso American people had taken along with them in their voyages. . Edited August 28, 2010 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Power Lust Posted August 28, 2010 #9 Share Posted August 28, 2010 You forgot about Leif Ericson, who was anything but Mediterranean. While watching a documentry on the Knights Templars they brought up the possibility that after the order was banned many Templars did a runner to America. Also during the program they said that one of the arguments that swayed the Spanish crown to fund Columbus to the new world is that they were aware other Europeans were aware of the lands. The ydidnt cite a reference and I dont know if they are jsut refering to the Viking Sagas but I do know a lot of stuff in Irish legends is overlooked as just myths which could point to pre-Columbian contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted August 28, 2010 #10 Share Posted August 28, 2010 (edited) My idea was that some European looking artifacts showed up in the Americas, because it were the Native Americans who took these artifcats along with them on their voyage back home. That also explains why nothing else has been found of these ancient European/Mediterranean/(African?) sailors. I would like to add, that it is one of my favorite phantasies (and nothing more than that) that Native Americans visited Europe/the Med long before any European visited them. And that that made these ancient Europeans curious about where these sailors came from. That could have created something in the mind of a guy called PLato, and many others after him. Just a thought. No, just a fantasy. . Edited August 28, 2010 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 28, 2010 #11 Share Posted August 28, 2010 (edited) The Irish sailed to America many centuries before Columbus. They did it in a hide boat. It also seems probable that the Chinese,in one of their rare outward looking phases, sailed to America and mapped the coast. This is probably where the legendary world maps which Columbus based his voyage on came from. http://www.gavinmenzies.net/evidence.asp Br Cornelius Edited August 28, 2010 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clobhair-cean Posted August 28, 2010 #12 Share Posted August 28, 2010 The Irish sailed to America many centuries before Columbus. They did it in a hide boat. It also seems probable that the Chinese,in one of their rare outward looking phases, sailed to America and mapped the coast. This is probably where the legendary world maps which Columbus based his voyage on came from. http://www.gavinmenzies.net/evidence.asp Br Cornelius There is no evidence whatsoever about the Irish going to the Americas, it's mere speculation based on a saint's life story. Gavin Manzies's book is a combination of sloppy research and a few lies. There is zero evidence of anyone reaching the Americas in the time between the arrival of the ancestors of the natives (funny concept ) and the Vikings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 28, 2010 #13 Share Posted August 28, 2010 There is no evidence whatsoever about the Irish going to the Americas, it's mere speculation based on a saint's life story. Gavin Manzies's book is a combination of sloppy research and a few lies. There is zero evidence of anyone reaching the Americas in the time between the arrival of the ancestors of the natives (funny concept ) and the Vikings. I would have to disagree. European/Caucasian pride is at stake here . Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted August 28, 2010 #14 Share Posted August 28, 2010 European/Caucasian pride is at stake here. Well, as the saying goes, "Pride cometh before a fall". cormac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted August 28, 2010 #15 Share Posted August 28, 2010 While watching a documentry on the Knights Templars they brought up the possibility that after the order was banned many Templars did a runner to America. Let me guess: Pistory Chanel at work again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted August 29, 2010 #16 Share Posted August 29, 2010 Let me guess: Pistory Chanel at work again? Chuckle. It gets worse. Apparently a recent presentation (possibly the same one) tied the Templar "theory" to the Kensington Runestone. Needless to say, the professional community reacted. And in a manner not generally typical. Eric A. Powell, Deputy Editor, Archaeology, Journal of the Archaeological Institute of America, May/June 2010 regarding the History Channel presentation; "elevating a dense web of improbable theories to the level of accepted science". . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted August 29, 2010 #17 Share Posted August 29, 2010 Chuckle. It gets worse. Apparently a recent presentation (possibly the same one) tied the Templar "theory" to the Kensington Runestone. Needless to say, the professional community reacted. And in a manner not generally typical. Eric A. Powell, Deputy Editor, Archaeology, Journal of the Archaeological Institute of America, May/June 2010 regarding the History Channel presentation; "elevating a dense web of improbable theories to the level of accepted science". . well, he was trying to be nice about it, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSearcher Posted August 29, 2010 #18 Share Posted August 29, 2010 I would have to disagree. European/Caucasian pride is at stake here . Br Cornelius So what would be the evidence then? Because just the story about a saint is not going to be sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted August 29, 2010 #19 Share Posted August 29, 2010 My idea was that some European looking artifacts showed up in the Americas, because it were the Native Americans who took these artifcats along with them on their voyage back home. That also explains why nothing else has been found of these ancient European/Mediterranean/(African?) sailors. I would like to add, that it is one of my favorite phantasies (and nothing more than that) that Native Americans visited Europe/the Med long before any European visited them. And that that made these ancient Europeans curious about where these sailors came from. That could have created something in the mind of a guy called PLato, and many others after him. Just a thought. No, just a fantasy. . Actually Abe, Hirst's speculation (from your original post) may be more viable. "That is pretty darn cool, isn't it? But, wait, what exactly does it mean? Many stories in the news ran amok on this, stating that this is clear evidence for pre-Columbian trans-Atlantic contact between the Old and New Worlds: A Roman ship blown off course and run aground on the American shore is what Hristov and Genovés believe and that's certainly what the news stories reported. But is that the only explanation? No, it's not. In 1492 Columbus landed on Watling Island, on Hispaniola, on Cuba. In 1493 and 1494 he explored Puerto Rico and the Leeward islands, and he founded a colony on Hispaniola. In 1498 he explored Venezuela; and in 1502 he reached Central America. You know, Christopher Columbus, pet navigator of Queen Isabella of Spain. You knew, of course, that there are numerous Roman-period archaeological sites in Spain. And you probably also knew that one thing the Aztecs were well known for was their incredible trading system, run by the merchant class of pochteca. The pochteca were an extremely powerful class of people in preColumbian society, and they were very interested in traveling to distant lands to find luxury goods to trade back home. So, how hard is it to imagine that one of the many colonists dumped by Columbus on the American shores carried a relic from home? And that relic found its way into the trade network, and thence to Toluca? And a better question is, why is it so much easier to believe that a Roman ship was wrecked on the shores of the country, bringing the inventions of the west to the New World"? Yes, I know that you were just fantasizing. Based upon quite a volume of data related to extensive trade networks in the Americas, and in the face of the lack of supportive data, this may be a not irrational interpretation. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted August 29, 2010 #20 Share Posted August 29, 2010 well, he was trying to be nice about it, I guess. I can understand your perception. And you are essentially correct. The reality is that, in North American "science speak", the above quote is the professional equivalent of "this is a piece of hack-work". . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted August 29, 2010 #21 Share Posted August 29, 2010 I can understand your perception. And you are essentially correct. The reality is that, in North American "science speak", the above quote is the professional equivalent of "this is a piece of hack-work". . Well, guess not everybody is as insensible as I am and calls Brain m********ion Brain m********ion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted August 29, 2010 #22 Share Posted August 29, 2010 Well, guess not everybody is as insensible as I am and calls Brain m********ion Brain m********ion. Your acerbic wit is most understood. Well put! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.B. Posted August 29, 2010 #23 Share Posted August 29, 2010 In the most literal sense, no. Asians reached America first, and became the Native Americans. Unless you want to debate the Seleutrians and all that ancientness. Then you might get into a toss-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer1945 Posted August 29, 2010 #24 Share Posted August 29, 2010 I would have to disagree. European/Caucasian pride is at stake here . Br Cornelius Have to totally agree with Br Cornelius. There are carvings in Central America with definite Negroid features which predate Columbus and the Spaniards by many centuries. On top of these are is probably enough other substantiated evidence floating around that if it were presented in a court of law the verdict would definitely be that Columbus was the last of many explorers to reach the New World. He just happened to be the one who came at the right time for others to follow in his tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Spartan Posted August 29, 2010 #25 Share Posted August 29, 2010 Have to totally agree with Br Cornelius. There are carvings in Central America with definite Negroid features which predate Columbus and the Spaniards by many centuries. On top of these are is probably enough other substantiated evidence floating around that if it were presented in a court of law the verdict would definitely be that Columbus was the last of many explorers to reach the New World. He just happened to be the one who came at the right time for others to follow in his tracks. Who says that Columbus was the first European to set foot on the Americas? The Norsemen were already in the Americas 400 years before Columbus touched Americas. Time Line of Pre-Columbian Trans-Oceanic Contact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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