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Persia

Who's Afraid of Shariah ?

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xris

Hasn't the whole notion of shariah in America gotten a bit out of control? No, it hasn't -- it's gotten hugely, obscenely, ignorantly out of control. How many of those anti-Islam protesters holding "NO SHARIA LAW" signs . . .

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sumbul-alikaramali/whos-afraid-of-shariah_b_701331.html

I dont know what the reasoning is behind the protests in the US but I object to its implications in the UK. We have fought for centuries to remove faith from the act of law, now sharia is being introduced by the back door. One law for all our citizens. In parts of the UK its not only being used for civil matters, of which I object, but also criminal offences within the Muslim community. If you adopt a country you must act within thats countries laws. No Muslim country would allow you act out side of their laws.

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Pezmo

Well, Shariah Law is an *SNIP* insult to us Western folk who as Xris stated people fought for centuries for the rights we have now. I wish a revolution would hurry up and happen in the UK, politicians won't listen anymore and the people are loosing their voice.

Edited by Lilly
language filter is there for a reason

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Lilly

In the United States the law of the land is the US Constitution. While all are free to worship in any manner they choose, no one is free to impose his or her religious beliefs (especially in the form of laws) upon others.

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tyminner

Well, Shariah Law is an *SNIP* insult to us Western folk who as Xris stated people fought for centuries for the rights we have now. I wish a revolution would hurry up and happen in the UK, politicians won't listen anymore and the people are loosing their voice.

we need one here in the US as well!!!

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xris

we need one here in the US as well!!!

What really peeves me is that they openly admit they intend to overpopulate us, to create a world run on undemocratic sharia law. A caliph that gives muslims a place in control while the kafers have to beg for existence and pay a non believers tax. AND WE ARE THE BIGOTS THE EXTREMISTS. We are sleep walking into a slavery and our common decency is letting us give up our freedoms and our democratic rights. Muslims dont believe in choice, in freedom or even democracy.Just look at where they do have the majority and even moderate Muslims are repressed by the religious police, the dress code patrols. Any other culture that openly admits it excesses and its violent dogma would be classified as a dangerous sect and be seen in the same context as the Nazis. America stood up against communism but communism never threatened or undermined our democratic intentions. By stealth and misinformation Islam is being sold without the real truth being told. Learn and educate yourselves on their intentions. I'm no bigot or racist, I am just very aware of their long term intentions.Just visit KSA and try worshipping your christian god even the bible is banned and wearing a crucifix is punishable. ARE WE THE EXTREMISTS ?

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Ealdwita

In the UK we have a name for the type of people who contribute to sites like the one in Persia's link....

http://www.analyst-network.com/article.php?art_id=3564

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Lion6969

As a Muslim I don't believe there is room for shariah in the USA or uk. Shariah is only applicable in a Muslim nation or state where the Muslims themselves have to have the state of Islam within in them in order for it to manifest outwardly in society judicial aspects and law. When the nation is majority non Muslim then Muslim need to live by the law of that land and vica versa. For any Muslims trying to implement shariah or an Islamic state within a non Muslim nation is insane. It is just as insane as a secular nation invading a Muslim nation and then forcefully implement their values and systems etc. Who is forcing who?

As for the rest of the other posts they are blatantly ignorant and bigoted views. Islamaphobia, the media got to you!

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the-Unexpected-Soul

As a Muslim I don't believe there is room for shariah in the USA or uk. Shariah is only applicable in a Muslim nation or state where the Muslims themselves have to have the state of Islam within in them in order for it to manifest outwardly in society judicial aspects and law. When the nation is majority non Muslim then Muslim need to live by the law of that land and vica versa. For any Muslims trying to implement shariah or an Islamic state within a non Muslim nation is insane. It is just as insane as a secular nation invading a Muslim nation and then forcefully implement their values and systems etc. Who is forcing who?

As for the rest of the other posts they are blatantly ignorant and bigoted views. Islamaphobia, the media got to you!

I'm also a Muslim and i agree

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Knight Of Shadows

i don't think sharia should be applied anywhere

it's islamic old laws .. they were used ages ago and now they're out

dated even for islamic country

the laws should be move with time ... like stoning person to death for

cheating his/her husband/wife

it's just an old age act .. like the witchhunt and witchburn

am muslim but i think islam encourage on adjusting and improvement

in my opinion a country should not be ruled by religion laws

due to the various religions might be in that country

religion is just matter of faith .. between the person and whatever

god he likes

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Lion6969

i don't think sharia should be applied anywhere

it's islamic old laws .. they were used ages ago and now they're out

dated even for islamic country

the laws should be move with time ... like stoning person to death for

cheating his/her husband/wife

it's just an old age act .. like the witchhunt and witchburn

am muslim but i think islam encourage on adjusting and improvement

in my opinion a country should not be ruled by religion laws

due to the various religions might be in that country

religion is just matter of faith .. between the person and whatever

god he likes

I disagree, although there is no room for shariah in non muslim lands there is in muslim lands when the muslims have the islamic state within themselves otherwise its futile.

Shariah is applicable today as it was back then, this the beauty of the quran and shariah, its for all time according to islam and muslim opinion at large. As for practise of other faiths within an islamic state is fine, and historically this clear to see.

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Knight Of Shadows

nah ... as muslim i think some laws are outragous ...

you may not to be aware of them though

don't get me wrong i love my religion .. but still it need few tweaks

to fit in the modern world times are different and no it's not acceptable

as it once was ... not at all

i can't stoamch or understand some of the laws sometimes

they are there for good reason .. but punishment is too harsh

which is not good ..

am ok with harsh punishment against murders and such .. but the rest

isn't really fitting with the world

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Lion6969

nah ... as muslim i think some laws are outragous ...

you may not to be aware of them though

don't get me wrong i love my religion .. but still it need few tweaks

to fit in the modern world times are different and no it's not acceptable

as it once was ... not at all

i can't stoamch or understand some of the laws sometimes

they are there for good reason .. but punishment is too harsh

which is not good ..

am ok with harsh punishment against murders and such .. but the rest

isn't really fitting with the world

There is flexibility in the shariah trust me on this. But its overall framework applies at all time. Punishment in islam is a detterant not a must, forgiveness is far better. There are practises in islam which allow flexibility to apply to modern situations.

As for the laws your probably referring to, do have a purpose and act more as a deterrant, they are practical laws, not just fancy stuff on paper, which make no real impact in society they serve.

But this opinion, thats all, but the quran is for all time and so are its contents, including shariah.

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Pseudo Intellectual

Interesting. Knight of Shadows follows Islam as a religion (i.e. it's a personal thing, no forcing it on anyone else), while Lion apparently follows Islam as both a religion and a political ideology (i.e. forcing Islam on everyone), also known as Islamism.

Why do you (Lion) think Sharia is applicable in this day and age? How are the following things acceptable?

  • Executing people for adultery.
  • Hanging homosexuals.
  • Banning ridicule of Muhammad.
  • When it comes to inheritance, women get half as much as a man.
  • A woman's testimony in court is worth half that of a man.
  • A woman must provide four witnesses to prove her claims of rape.
  • Husbands are allowed to physically punish their wives.
  • Killing those who leave Islam.

Among other things.

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Knight Of Shadows

flexiablity was when mohammad was around or his " sahaba " fellowship t

like one time a person stole something to eat " Who was working for some

land lord "

they asked him why did you do it and it turned out his so called lord

ain't giving him anything

they order to cut the land owner hands am familiar with such things

but in times of corruptions like those .. and no one like mohammad

or his fellowship to make exceptions anymore

they apply laws on the weak .. and the rich and strong is above the laws

that's why sharia can't be applied these days .. coz it'll be twisted

by the people who's applying it .. unlike before it was in safe hands

and they see the reason before taking actions

still i think it shouldn't be applied any where

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Paranormalcy

So... I'm not clear on who IS for Shariah Law, or where, or how it is anyone expects to get it enacted, anywhere but in Muslim countries anyway? I have no problems with anyone having their own religions, but as noted, at least in the US, the federal, state and local laws are the ones that are the legal and binding authorities - everything else is piffle, excepting Indian/Native American Reservation concerns which is an entirely different issue but still connected to federal law.

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SilverCougar

*raises a paw while looking around shiftily* Uh.. as a pagan.. and a rummy... I don't even want to see ye olde pagan laws in the american government, let alone christian ones.. so yeah.. this will go with shariah as well. Not that I'm being an Islamaphobe.. or anti-islamic.. just anti-religion in government.

Sariah is one thing in countries that already adhere to it, but yeah.. forcing it on countries like the european and united states ect. ect. isn't going to work.

Though as a woman.. I do have to admit, I cringe mightily when I hear about a woman being stoned to death or whipped for either not being with a male relative in public or having been raped by a male.. or having been honour killed for attracting the attentions of a guy the family doesn't like.. I know it's only a fraction of the whole.. but it's still cringe worthy. (and don't get me wrong, I cringe when some guy tells him God told him to open fire at a.. coffee shop..random pick.. because they hire ..athiests or whatever.. crazy extremes in every lot)

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Lion6969

Interesting. Knight of Shadows follows Islam as a religion (i.e. it's a personal thing, no forcing it on anyone else), while Lion apparently follows Islam as both a religion and a political ideology (i.e. forcing Islam on everyone), also known as Islamism.

Why do you (Lion) think Sharia is applicable in this day and age? How are the following things acceptable?

Hold up i am abit confused, this thread is about shariah in USA or UK. Secondly, can you point it out when I said it ought to be forced on anyone, infact if you had good comprehension of english, you would realise that I said that shariah or the islamic state to be implemented one needs to have a society of people with the islamic state within them. So how does this equate forcing? For me islam is way of life which encompasses judicial, social, legal and political as well as the physical and spiritual, hence way of life!

  • Executing people for adultery.
yes in an islamic state, by the way there is non current in existence in the world.
Hanging homosexuals.
If caught yes, within an islamic state.
Banning ridicule of Muhammad.
yes within an islamic state
When it comes to inheritance, women get half as much as a man.
This is a little complex as half of shariah deals with inheritance, you have to have shariah and islamic legal knowledge in order to discuss this, which you dont. If you want a simple yes or no, Then yes!

A woman's testimony in court is worth half that of a man.
same as above, you dont have sufficient knowledge its complex, but Yes!
A woman must provide four witnesses to prove her claims of rape.
This is true is she accuses a man, but this was also relevant at a time when modern means were not available, thus in order not to tarnish innocent people reputations, four witness are required, not just for rape but for many accusation of such gravitass. But using modern methods today, genetic, forensic etc, its not a must!

Husbands are allowed to physically punish their wives.
Again a misconception, no they are not physically to punish and oh yes i know the verse etc, but if you quote please quote in context, chronology academic perspective and a good understanding of the arabic language, in this case translations alone aint sufficient.
Killing those who leave Islam.

Among other things.

Yes within an islamic state, unless they leave to live in a non islamic state, they can do that too.

Edited by Lion6969

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Lion6969

flexiablity was when mohammad was around or his " sahaba " fellowship t

like one time a person stole something to eat " Who was working for some

land lord "

they asked him why did you do it and it turned out his so called lord

ain't giving him anything

they order to cut the land owner hands am familiar with such things

but in times of corruptions like those .. and no one like mohammad

or his fellowship to make exceptions anymore

they apply laws on the weak .. and the rich and strong is above the laws

that's why sharia can't be applied these days .. coz it'll be twisted

by the people who's applying it .. unlike before it was in safe hands

and they see the reason before taking actions

still i think it shouldn't be applied any where

I totally disagree, because even secular law can be twisted, and is so. Trust me! Secular gives more rights to the crimnal than the victim. Islamic law is prevention, deterrant and thus rarely put in action, because no dare take another persons liberty and commit a crime. For example, in saudi (although they dont implement shariah 100%) if you left your home or even a jewlery shop unlocked and went for salah, will anyone steal anything, do you think they will dare, knowing if caught they lose their hand. They will think 100 times before doing so, unlike in secular law, they do it, get a slap on the hand, maybe a course in crimnal universities which they call prisons, where they will learn to reoffend but do it better this time and not get caught because they will have had a doctrate in stealing by the time they leave prison, nice laws on paper, practically useless!

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aquatus1

Hasn't the whole notion of shariah in America gotten a bit out of control? No, it hasn't -- it's gotten hugely, obscenely, ignorantly out of control. How many of those anti-Islam protesters holding "NO SHARIA LAW" signs . . .

Protesters holding signs? That is what is being called "hugely, obscenely, ignorantly out of control"?

Around here, that's called a relatively peaceful protest. When they start flipping cars around, torching buildings, lynching people, that's when you can start pulling out the power verbs.

Seriously, way to set the bar low.

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Lion6969

Protesters holding signs? That is what is being called "hugely, obscenely, ignorantly out of control"?

Around here, that's called a relatively peaceful protest. When they start flipping cars around, torching buildings, lynching people, that's when you can start pulling out the power verbs.

Seriously, way to set the bar low.

Yeah lol. It's a protest done peacefully. Totally agree!

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Robin_Shadowes

I dont know what the reasoning is behind the protests in the US but I object to its implications in the UK. We have fought for centuries to remove faith from the act of law, now sharia is being introduced by the back door. One law for all our citizens. In parts of the UK its not only being used for civil matters, of which I object, but also criminal offences within the Muslim community. If you adopt a country you must act within thats countries laws. No Muslim country would allow you act out side of their laws.

Can you prove they chop off hands and feet in UK? And if so, do they use sharia only against muslim offenders or britons too?

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xris

Can you prove they chop off hands and feet in UK? And if so, do they use sharia only against muslim offenders or britons too?

Can I prove they chop of hands? did I say that? They hold sharia courts for civil disputes and divorce settlements. In certain parts of London, street crime is also handled by Sharia courts, among muslims , they usually involve severe fines. I have never heard of corporal punishment being implemented. Muslims living in Britain are british and should in my opinion abide by the laws governing all its citizens. The law should be open to scrutiny and should be seen by all.Who knows how far these secret courts extend their authority, as they are hidden we dont actually know what they do or what punishments they implement.

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ninjadude

So... I'm not clear on who IS for Shariah Law, or where, or how it is anyone expects to get it enacted, anywhere but in Muslim countries anyway? I have no problems with anyone having their own religions, but as noted, at least in the US, the federal, state and local laws are the ones that are the legal and binding authorities - everything else is piffle, excepting Indian/Native American Reservation concerns which is an entirely different issue but still connected to federal law.

At the risk of going political in a religous thread, those who are "afraid", are those sowing FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt) in order to discredit Islam for political and religious reasons. It is piffle.

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xris

At the risk of going political in a religous thread, those who are "afraid", are those sowing FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt) in order to discredit Islam for political and religious reasons. It is piffle.

You need to expand your views or they may appear rhetoric and biased.

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