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Persia

Who's Afraid of Shariah ?

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Robin_Shadowes

Can I prove they chop of hands? did I say that? They hold sharia courts for civil disputes and divorce settlements. In certain parts of London, street crime is also handled by Sharia courts, among muslims , they usually involve severe fines. I have never heard of corporal punishment being implemented. Muslims living in Britain are british and should in my opinion abide by the laws governing all its citizens. The law should be open to scrutiny and should be seen by all.Who knows how far these secret courts extend their authority, as they are hidden we dont actually know what they do or what punishments they implement.

No, I didn't see you mention that, that is true but also the reason why I wondered. I'm sure MSM would censor such things from filtering down to the public anyway. But that is their long-time goal, to implement first sharia-light as in UK but the next step will include full sharia with all their hudud corporeal punishments too. Of course they will never admit this to the naive kuffar but that is what they want. Or else they themselves would be considered kufr.

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xris

No, I didn't see you mention that, that is true but also the reason why I wondered. I'm sure MSM would censor such things from filtering down to the public anyway. But that is their long-time goal, to implement first sharia-light as in UK but the next step will include full sharia with all their hudud corporeal punishments too. Of course they will never admit this to the naive kuffar but that is what they want. Or else they themselves would be considered kufr.

So right..They can not even point to a Muslim country where a caliph is in control and sharia can be pointed to as a good example and they want us to bare its consequences. The truth is many muslims crave world domination and they never admit their true intentions or the what Islam really stands for. They are pushing for us to rebel against their intrusion and harm the moderate muslim, creating a reason for Jihad against the infidels. They despise democracy and the freedom of choice, its a Islamic dictatorship run by bigoted clerics with no chance of a return to democratic choice.Yes we have sharia in every major grouping of Muslims and we let them get away with it. Its a confronting democracy and our freedoms.I fear for the moderate Muslim as much as I do for our future, if they are not reined in. The moderate Muslim lies to quietly , they need to speak out. why did they want to come to the west if they despise our system, our way of life, if they want Sharia go where it is maintained.

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Pseudo Intellectual
Secondly, can you point it out when I said it ought to be forced on anyone [...] So how does this equate forcing?

From your own post:

[Executing people for adultery] yes in an islamic state

[Hanging homosexuals] If caught yes, within an islamic state.

[banning ridicule of Muhammad] yes within an islamic state

Etc.

For me islam is way of life which encompasses judicial, social, legal and political as well as the physical and spiritual, hence way of life!

I know. That's called Islamism, the same ideology the likes of Bin Laden and Mullah Omar follow.

Again a misconception, no they are not physically to punish and oh yes i know the verse etc, but if you quote please quote in context, chronology academic perspective and a good understanding of the arabic language, in this case translations alone aint sufficient.

“Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an.” IX:113

How does “context, chronology academic perspective and a good understanding of the arabic language” change anything in this verse? Please copy-paste the verse in the original Arabic and explain what it really means.

----

Oh and, please explain why you think hanging homosexuals, banning ridicule of Muhammad, killing apostates (etc.) is okay and applicable in this day and age.

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Knight Of Shadows

So right..They can not even point to a Muslim country where a caliph is in control and sharia can be pointed to as a good example and they want us to bare its consequences. The truth is many muslims crave world domination and they never admit their true intentions or the what Islam really stands for. They are pushing for us to rebel against their intrusion and harm the moderate muslim, creating a reason for Jihad against the infidels. They despise democracy and the freedom of choice, its a Islamic dictatorship run by bigoted clerics with no chance of a return to democratic choice.Yes we have sharia in every major grouping of Muslims and we let them get away with it. Its a confronting democracy and our freedoms.I fear for the moderate Muslim as much as I do for our future, if they are not reined in. The moderate Muslim lies to quietly , they need to speak out. why did they want to come to the west if they despise our system, our way of life, if they want Sharia go where it is maintained.

excuse me ? sorry mate and with all due respect but that line would have

won the most stupid line in UM if there was such prize

the way i see .. is usa is waging war all around countries and trying

to steal oil and more and more

YOU SEE ? islamic country waging wars ? hello yes right here ? :lol:

if you don't .. then suggest you drop such stupid accusations

gee ... and to think the site went boring for a while and no funny things

you had it going pal :D

laterz

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Knight Of Shadows

I know. That's called Islamism, the same ideology the likes of Bin Laden and Mullah Omar follow.

i'll clear point for you

stop waving around osama bin laden name because

it's clear to the world he was just american puppet and card to play

osama bin laden wasn't muslim :P

yeah yeah they tell you that in media and he claim that but the true is

he was nothing more to give usa excuses for their wars

waving it around as " example " of muslims is kinda of silly

he might have been paid millions for what he've done for the us

and still might be in beach full of girls enjoying him self with US

dollars around him :D

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xris

excuse me ? sorry mate and with all due respect but that line would have

won the most stupid line in UM if there was such prize

the way i see .. is usa is waging war all around countries and trying

to steal oil and more and more

YOU SEE ? islamic country waging wars ? hello yes right here ? :lol:

if you don't .. then suggest you drop such stupid accusations

gee ... and to think the site went boring for a while and no funny things

you had it going pal :D

laterz

Yes if America is guilty then complain,Oh but you dont you? There is more than one way to infiltrate a country and invade its democratic reasoning. Tell me why do Muslims in their thousands wish to come to the west only to complain about the new country and its laws once they arrive. If you dont like America or Britain dont bleeding live there. Don't tell me sharia courts are not in use, please. The link I gave, represents a growing number of Muslim opinion, so dont pretend his in the minority.

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Knight Of Shadows

majority ? what majority you talk about ?

most of muslims wants to take over the world ? wow i didn't know

i had such big plans ?? you must read minds or something :lol:

ohh wait ... you're serious ?!

i'll tell why muslims go to west ... am 21 old and fixing computers

people just call me when they need my service .. and therefor don't got

much clients .. bearly gets through the week coz i can't offord to buy

or rent a shop eh ? am not complainig just read to the end

all jobs here are like 12 day working from 9 am to 9 pm for what ?

40 $ that's right ... life and food here is cheap

but not THAT cheap to get through the week with 40$ can you ?

NOW 90% of guys here like me ... :D

there goes your reason ... life got really hard here and going in

hard times and as human beings we trying to survive somewhere else

now i think we got over the going there issue

why they ask to change law ?

maybe it doesn't treat them fairly ? perhaps

you never been and outsider ? it doesn't feel real good

and alot of people think you're " less " than them being outsider

maybe that's why they call for changes ...

but that's never gonna happen .. so i guess you can quit accusing us

of having plans to take over the world :P

Edited by Knight Of Shadows

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shadowhive

I have a real problem with Sharia law in the way that it seems to both go over the top and treat women as second class. I remember a few months back someone was executed fo sorcery because he presented a psychic tv show that wasn't even produced or broadcast in the place he was killed!

Why lion do you think that they should execute people for being gay or just committing adultery? Care to explain why these are 'offenses' that warrant death.

I think you can believe what you want, but if you think your religion grants you some right to torture and execute people then that's crossing the line. NO religion should hold power over the government anywhere.

Edited by shadowhive

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xris

majority ? what majority you talk about ?

most of muslims wants to take over the world ? wow i didn't know

i had such big plans ?? you must read minds or something :lol:

ohh wait ... you're serious ?!

i'll tell why muslims go to west ... am 21 old and fixing computers

people just call me when they need my service .. and therefor don't got

much clients .. bearly gets through the week coz i can't offord to buy

or rent a shop eh ? am not complainig just read to the end

all jobs here are like 12 day working from 9 am to 9 pm for what ?

40 $ that's right ... life and food here is cheap

but not THAT cheap to get through the week with 40$ can you ?

NOW 90% of guys here like me ... :D

there goes your reason ... life got really hard here and going in

hard times and as human beings we trying to survive somewhere else

now i think we got over the going there issue

why they ask to change law ?

maybe it doesn't treat them fairly ? perhaps

you never been and outsider ? it doesn't feel real good

and alot of people think you're " less " than them being outsider

maybe that's why they call for changes ...

but that's never gonna happen .. so i guess you can quit accusing us

of having plans to take over the world :P

Who do you represent? Have you experienced the influence of certain extremist Muslims? Yes I have been an outsider and suffered from it. What would you say if I became part of your society and made the demands of secular democratic law and government? How do you think your government would react? Do you know about the serious influences KSA money is having on Muslims in the UK? like it or not the outspoken attitudes by certain Muslims in the UK are creating mistrust and open hostility. I am reacting to pressures placed upon me by these ,to me outrageous, demands for sharia law.I cant tell you how much it annoys the majority of UK citizens. We never experience it from other ethnic groups or other faiths, why should Muslims think they can introduce what we see as barbarous law that inflicts death and torture on its victims. You heard it here when a brother thought it was correct to stone a homosexual. Whose the one with extremist views here? Listen to your extremist clerics and hear what they are saying, if a we made similar remarks we would be classified as nutters.

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Knight Of Shadows

i don't want to represent anyone i was explaining to you the reason

arabs leaving their original countries

and if you were in a group demanding stuff in my country

if those laws treat you unfairly i wouldn't mind

i don't treat people differently ... based or religion or race

you maybe the same too

but not every one like you and me you already know that

there must be something that pushing these people to demand such thing

and by the way i don't like KSA or it's people and laws :mellow:

killing homosexual and all .. am against it

we might dislike it .. but don't think killing them or torturing them

is an option

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xris

i don't want to represent anyone i was explaining to you the reason

arabs leaving their original countries

and if you were in a group demanding stuff in my country

if those laws treat you unfairly i wouldn't mind

i don't treat people differently ... based or religion or race

you maybe the same too

but not every one like you and me you already know that

there must be something that pushing these people to demand such thing

and by the way i don't like KSA or it's people and laws :mellow:

killing homosexual and all .. am against it

we might dislike it .. but don't think killing them or torturing them

is an option

I hope I would never treat another with any animosity or be prejudiced against them. The laws of the UK in essence are not selective as far as race or faith are concerned, thats why I detest the thought of sharia because it does distinguish between faiths gender and sexual preferences.If any muslim has a problem with the law they have the ability like all of us to question that law and there is system of reforming the law. The cleric, I posted, wants that system to be completely dismantled, something I would die for, in its defence. We in the west can only observe Islam in the counties it implements Sharia and it aint nice. So its no good any one trying to convince a European that it would serve us better.

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Knight Of Shadows

i already said that i don't like countries rulez by islamic rules

and every religious laws are selective about faiths and stuff

that's why no country should be going under religious laws

coz they're different religion in that country .. even if there was just

islam still it shouldn't be applied coz it's outdated

BUT we're not trying to take over the world :P

as far as am concerned i don't give a damn about the world

arabic countries mostly are medium-poor countries

we're just trying to figure out how to live on our life

as i mentioned most of our work time is 12 hours long

that wouldn't leave us time to think of plans to take over the world :P

nearly enough to shower eat .. go to sleep

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H.H. Holmes

I find Sharia law barbaric in it's punishments, but all sovereign nations have a choice on how to implement their own justice. I do have an issue with the claim that was brought up about Saudi Arabia being a relatively crime free nation because of the deterrent of the harsh punishments handed down through Sharia. The fact is, Saudi Arabia has a relatively high rate of property crimes, kidnappings, assaults, as well as a large number of human trafficking offenses. Plus, not all murders are reported in Saudi Arabia because they are carried out as blood libels.

Crime In Saudi Arabia

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Pseudo Intellectual

From your own post:

[Executing people for adultery] yes in an islamic state

[Hanging homosexuals] If caught yes, within an islamic state.

[banning ridicule of Muhammad] yes within an islamic state

Etc.

I know. That's called Islamism, the same ideology the likes of Bin Laden and Mullah Omar follow.

“Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an.” IX:113

How does “context, chronology academic perspective and a good understanding of the arabic language” change anything in this verse? Please copy-paste the verse in the original Arabic and explain what it really means.

----

Oh and, please explain why you think hanging homosexuals, banning ridicule of Muhammad, killing apostates (etc.) is okay and applicable in this day and age.

Well?

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Lion6969

Well?

Well I'm busy on some other threads at moment, don't worry I ain't forgotten. For now the simple anwser is yes to shariah in an Islamic state where all the punishments are included. But guess what there is no Islamic state since it fell in 1914 at the hands of atta Turk. The Turkish caliphate. Therefore It's not applied fully anywhere but if it was I would agree!

And it's just as good today as it was on the first day 1400 years ago. This explanation will come to you later. But do note I did say no room for shariah in western non Muslim states. I don't see Muslim states at war with them forcing their religion, system, shariah and way of life. But we do see over 40 western nation with some Muslim nation involved too invading bombing, forcing secular democracy, systems and way of life. Who is forcing what and on who?

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Pseudo Intellectual

Well I'm busy on some other threads at moment, don't worry I ain't forgotten. For now the simple anwser is yes to shariah in an Islamic state where all the punishments are included. But guess what there is no Islamic state since it fell in 1914 at the hands of atta Turk. The Turkish caliphate. Therefore It's not applied fully anywhere but if it was I would agree!

And it's just as good today as it was on the first day 1400 years ago. This explanation will come to you later. But do note I did say no room for shariah in western non Muslim states. I don't see Muslim states at war with them forcing their religion, system, shariah and way of life. But we do see over 40 western nation with some Muslim nation involved too invading bombing, forcing secular democracy, systems and way of life. Who is forcing what and on who?

So you do support forcing Sharia on everyone [in an Islamic state]?

What Western nations have invaded countries and forced secularism and the Western way of life on them? Both Iraq and Afghanistan are Islamic nations, according to their Constitutions, and their societies are still the same.

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Stellar

but don't think killing them or torturing them

is an option

What, in your opinion, is the option?

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Lion6969

So you do support forcing Sharia on everyone [in an Islamic state]?

What Western nations have invaded countries and forced secularism and the Western way of life on them? Both Iraq and Afghanistan are Islamic nations, according to their Constitutions, and their societies are still the same.

The answer to your first question is NO! If you read my first post I did for the Islamic state to emerge outwardly it has to be present in the people internally. They have to in a state of Islam in order for a state to emerge. Inthis case there is no forcing because if people are in an Islamic state then they will demand for their state society and law etc to be too.

There is no Iraq or Afghanistan with an Islamic constitution 100% the problem arises when they dilute it or make a cocktail system with secular values and systems. So now both are in submission to nonmuslim nations one was illegally invaded. Both being forced to import a secular system on people who hold contradictory values. You think they found wmds no coz that was not the plan. It's oil and imperial rule, force your way of life!

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Pseudo Intellectual

The answer to your first question is NO! If you read my first post I did for the Islamic state to emerge outwardly it has to be present in the people internally. They have to in a state of Islam in order for a state to emerge. Inthis case there is no forcing because if people are in an Islamic state then they will demand for their state society and law etc to be too.

So, you'd support Sharia if 100% of the people in the country wanted Sharia? What if it was 99%? Would you still support it?

Edited by Pseudo Intellectual

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xris

Islam does not respect democracy , once a caliph is installed no other alternative government is possible. If you are non muslim you cant hold a government office. Why Muslims have not enforced it, is because it does not work in practice. If it was that good we would see it in operation. It is system that is open to abuse and it does not respect any change in populace opinion. We only see authoritarian or dictatorships in Islamic states, just because democracy is denied by scriptures. As a non believer you must abide by sharia and you will be judged and punished by it. Don't look at Islam where muslims are in the minority, look at Islam where they hold the power.

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The Executive

Don't worry. It won't happen, ever.

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Lion6969

So, you'd support Sharia if 100% of the people in the country wanted Sharia? What if it was 99%? Would you still support it?

Let me put in away you might understand me better. If you want freedom and democracy but are ruled by dictatorship, you protest etc, democracy won't come until the people demand it, revolutions. The same applies for shariah. If the majority demand it then so be it.

As for the rest of the garbage posted by some on this thread ( not you ), are bigoted, ignorant and rely on their knowledge from the media and have knee jerk reactions to senastionlist headlines etc.

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Fluffybunny

Let me put in away you might understand me better. If you want freedom and democracy but are ruled by dictatorship, you protest etc, democracy won't come until the people demand it, revolutions. The same applies for shariah. If the majority demand it then so be it.

As for the rest of the garbage posted by some on this thread ( not you ), are bigoted, ignorant and rely on their knowledge from the media and have knee jerk reactions to senastionlist headlines etc.

Perhaps it would be better to guide ourselves by the documents created by our founding fathers, rather than majority rules. If the "majority" wished to go back to days of slavery, would that be ok for you?

Mob rule makes for a poor governmental system, and the rights we have in this country make sure that ridiculous things like sharia law cannot happen, ever. Religion itself has been nothing but a factor of hate and power plays, and in this modern age is no longer needed. Sharia law is simply more of the same. There are countries that have it; if people wish to experience the joy of sharia law, let them move to a country that already has it in place.

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