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Persia

Who's Afraid of Shariah ?

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shadowhive

Grasp what concept. The concept of homosexuality? My position is clear.

The concept that homoseuals just want to be accepted and live their lives, without fear of religious persecution. There's no excuse for holding up your Quran (or bible or any other religious text) and using it as an excuse to justify hate. After all, I thought your religion is supposedly of 'peace and love'.

Lol. So in your perfect secular way of life accomodatec by a secular system, it's religions which has caused the people to largely not accept homosexuality. Which religion might that be which is not giving you full rights as a gay person. Don't talk nonsense, like I said sort your own doorstep out first before you impose your view else where. Sort your own house first, my house is mine, and I shall believe and accept as I wish, get over it and stop compelling people to accept something which they find distasteful. Also stop twisting words to suit your own whim and accommodate your argument. Irreligious or religious and the majority of the people do not hate gay people as you keep making it out to be, it's the act and the lifestyle that entails it. Get over it. We hate the act not the people, the latter in my opinion and most religions opinion can reform. You don't agree that's good and I respect that. Now you need to respect an alternative way of life and opinion, rather than try and force homosexuality down peoples throat.

Simple fact. Yes. Before secular society, Christianity held sway. Christianity was anti-gay, so thusly, through that laws were put in place all over the world against homosexuality. A lot of people that are homophobic now can be traced back to that, without a proper excuse.

Now Christianity has lost it's power so in the last 50 years gay rights have finally been able to become a reality.

You are are so hung up on the act you ignore the point. You focus entirely on the act. The focus on the act leads to the hate. And the fictious 'lifestyle' that you keep going on about. Straight people have no specific lifestyle, neither do gay people.

And you need to accept that your religion is no excuse for hate.

Funny how there's 'no compulsion' to be apart of your religion, but there is compulsion to be straight and for me to accept that what I am is not the 'natural disposition'.

No my point above addresses it and the other 62 pages. I defend homosexuality is a sin just like heterosexual fornication is, no difference, you know this, but you also like carousels.

I'm not gonna bring up the same point I always do, because every time you ignore it.

Your way of life tells you that if no one adopts your way of life then invade them and bomb them! Everyone has power over their choices and behaviour, you don't have power over race and other genetic preconditions, homosexuality obviously is not one. I don't accept it, so does that mean you will impose it on me, if you could you would probably carpet bomb my house. See how it hurts when someone twists your words and makes BS about you or your religion etc. Bit of your own medicine.

Nice way of twisting my words there. Your talents are wasted. You should become a journalist or politician.

No, I wouldn't bomb anyone if I had the power. (Well, maybe the Westboro church, but no one would exactly miss them.) I'd use words. Words have more power and, unlike bombs, don't kill.

I accept that you are straight (and that's your natural disposition) and you're a Muslim.

You can't accept that I'm bisexual (which is MY natural disposition, and I believe I know myself a damn sight better then you do) and I'm agnostic (which you also can't seem to accept).

What I do want you to accept is that homosexuality isn't a sin and that to say it is does a great deal of harm and has zero benefit.

There is no advantage or benefit to society too. Gay rights to an extent where you are, like I said order your own house sort your doorstep first, then lecture and impose on elsewhere.

The benefit is that gay people can live in peace, because they can be productive members of society (but shariah is more then happy just discarding them out of hand). For example, during the second world war there was man called Alan Turing. He was gay and he came up with the way to beat the Germans Engima machine, thusly saving countless lives and turning the war in our favor. After being arrested for being gay, he killed himself. Such a waste.

Gay people pretending to be straight gains nothing (it's not as if there's a shortage of hetrosexuals).

Our doorstep is a damn sight better then it was 50 years ago. Ironic then, that most Muslim countries are going the other way. We've made leaps and bounds in the cause for gay rights. What're Muslim countries doing in the middle east? Oh, that's right: hanging 12 year old boys and using shariah as an excuse.

I take it then, you have no problems with people such things it in the name of your religion, despite shariah saying it shouldn't go that far.

I think if you could you would, your already forcing people to accept it, compelling people, why don't you just open a new thread, where you can discuss it to your hearts content. You want us to understand your opinion and we do, but we disagree. So are we trying to force you to accept our view? No. So stop preaching and compelling, accept the opinion understand the position and disagree. We know everything we need to know regarding this and your view. Bring something new to the debate, or move on. We are bored of addressing your selfish purpose to impose acceptance of homosexuality on religious people, get the largely irreligious to accept it, get your government to give you what they want, but why you want other nations to accept your way of life is beyond me, what next bomb or destroy anyone who is not for homosexuality, why not vote in a gay primeminister who will give you what you want?

Why would I? What would I gain? Why do straight people want to force gay people to be straight? What do they gain? Answer nothing.

Religion is compelling people to be straight when they're not which is much worse.

This'll probably be my last post here since you clearly will never in a million years get the point. Again, sad that someone so smart is so blind.

If a gay prime minister was voted into power, then there'd be many places he couldn't go lest he be arrested or killed on sight. Which I think says a lot does it not?

Both made choices. Go back to 62 pages for elaboration and stop repeating. You sound like a religious fantatic bent on converting people to homosexuality. Looking at both sides both views are clear, it's upto the individual which they accept, neither I or you can force anything on anyone, you seem to be hell bent on imposing your view hence the constant repitition like a preacher. If it was a religious person compelling people like you are, derailing threads where majority has been dedicated to homosexuality, the mods, you and the irreligious would have gone nuts by now and have the thread closed.

Again, for the last time. The only choice a gay person makes is to be honest.

I don't think you're even sure what my view is about, or what I want which is ironic.

shame you can't get over it, shame you cannot accept an alternative way of life and opinion, shame you compel your view on others, shame on you that you keep derailing the thread.

My friend, our dialogue is over, full stop. As much as I enjoy it, your intolerance of other views regardless whether you agree or not, constant compulsion, constant repitition, and love of carousel is enough for me.

Good day mate. I am not responding to any of your posts, because it's all about how we should accept homosexuality to suit you, your whim your way of life, over own values, culture, opinions and most of all our religion. Ain't gonna happen.

Shame it'd take natural proof to change your mind, which is coming. Shame on you that you can't accept the same and that religions, like yours, are hell bent on destroying it.

Homosexuality existed for thousands of years, in various cultures before Christianity and Islam. Homosexuals, like hetrosexuals, do not have set values, culture, religion or opinions. Some go out and fornicate, others have families. I take great pleasure knowing that homosexuality has lasted longer then your religion and it will last even when yours is turned to dust and it's words forgiotten.

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shadowhive

I have skipped it and will continue to do so, I contributed to 62 pages on the subject. I am happy to do more on another thread, but turn this thread into a homosexuality thread is wrong. I have been fair and adressed it as much as possible, infact becky for a thread not about homosexuality, I have given it ample time and pages to it, so I gave it special treatment because of shadow and the dialogue we had. It's been exhausted, there is nothing more to add, nothing new to add too, it is boring repition that shadow is adopting in order to look as though he has won the argument. Oh ****! I just realised that is what it's all about. So I concede, your right and shadow is right, YOU WIN! Can we move on now? If that's all you wanted to hear shadow there you have it, for the benefit of others, this thread and justice to the subject, YOU WIN shadow, no please move on, you not gonna compel anyone.

Sorry for that becky, I literally realised what it might take to move on. As much as we disagree I concede to move on. What else do you want?

I take your insincere conceding.

I will admit, despite everything your dialogues have made me think and I have, perhaps in a twisted way, enjoyed them. Honestly you have made me think more about religion in general and god more then I have in years. I'd did start this thinking, as most did, that the 'shariah' in Iran etc was the real one, but you've shown me thta's not true. So despite your stubboness I'll give you credit where it's due.

You must understand, though, that this is something that's important to me and it really does make me angry what a lot of religious people do because of this subject. So yeah, I may have channelled anger a few times, but it was more general and never intended to be specifically at you (after all you are far better then most religious people that hold that belief, if other ones had the same level of sense as you rather then gioing out of their way to hurt people then the world wwould be a better place).

Sorry for the mini ramble there again though.

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Lion6969

I take your insincere conceding.

I will admit, despite everything your dialogues have made me think and I have, perhaps in a twisted way, enjoyed them. Honestly you have made me think more about religion in general and god more then I have in years. I'd did start this thinking, as most did, that the 'shariah' in Iran etc was the real one, but you've shown me thta's not true. So despite your stubboness I'll give you credit where it's due.

You must understand, though, that this is something that's important to me and it really does make me angry what a lot of religious people do because of this subject. So yeah, I may have channelled anger a few times, but it was more general and never intended to be specifically at you (after all you are far better then most religious people that hold that belief, if other ones had the same level of sense as you rather then gioing out of their way to hurt people then the world wwould be a better place).

Sorry for the mini ramble there again though.

You may think it's insincere, but it's equivalent to agreeing to disagree. I concede in order to move on, if that's what it will take. I have in my human capacity to my fullest given as much time as possible to your views and accepted them, I disagree but respect them. That's not a bad things but a good thing, dialogue and understanding lead to tolerance even if there is disagreement.

Thankyou for any credit you have given me, it's appreciated. Trust me we would not have a dialogue of 62 pages if I had no respect for you or your position.

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Lion6969

Well as you are pasionate with your belief and your culture ( fair play to you)... why not just post up the positive side ....if you get my meaning??

I take your point and it's valid. However just to focus on the positive means what is positive to you or other non Muslims. To me it's all positive, so I would be doing injustice to Islam or anything if I only presented views that others may agree to. I need to inform wholly and fully, somethings will be agreed on and somethings will be disagreed on, that's is what's it all about. Informing, understanding and tolerating, what ever the agreements and disagreements. No compulsion. I present everything about it so you can make an informed decision, even if it does not agree with me or Islam.

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shadowhive

You may think it's insincere, but it's equivalent to agreeing to disagree. I concede in order to move on, if that's what it will take. I have in my human capacity to my fullest given as much time as possible to your views and accepted them, I disagree but respect them. That's not a bad things but a good thing, dialogue and understanding lead to tolerance even if there is disagreement.

Thankyou for any credit you have given me, it's appreciated. Trust me we would not have a dialogue of 62 pages if I had no respect for you or your position.

If a lot of the 'homosexuality is a sin' crowd went that way instead of constantly wasting resources on holding things back then we'd be better off. Maybe you could go to these people and teach them how to be more... sane?

Well it hasn't been all that many pages I don't think, but yeah. It wouldn't have gotten this far if that hadn't been the case. Genuinely you have given me stuff to think about (and at some times killing my computer since some of the long reples easily took an hour) so yeah, that's good.

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Lion6969

Genuinely you have given me stuff to think about (and at some times killing my computer since some of the long reples easily took an hour) so yeah, that's good.

Oh god, you don't know how much I agree with the above. Lol. :)

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Beckys_Mom

I take your point and it's valid. However just to focus on the positive means what is positive to you or other non Muslims. To me it's all positive, so I would be doing injustice to Islam or anything if I only presented views that others may agree to. I need to inform wholly and fully, somethings will be agreed on and somethings will be disagreed on, that's is what's it all about. Informing, understanding and tolerating, what ever the agreements and disagreements. No compulsion. I present everything about it so you can make an informed decision, even if it does not agree with me or Islam.

You differ from me...in my own culture I will say there are both the good and the bad...but thats just me

Anyhoo if you see it all positive thats fair enough... I don't see anything more that can be said... cheers

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