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Persia

Who's Afraid of Shariah ?

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Lion6969

Perhaps you can show me where I made such a claim of expertise? I NEVER claimed to be an expert. And actually I have spent a good deal of time in the middle east dealing with people of every strata.

guess what? even firsthand, the sharia law is ridiculous. But it is easy to make something sound popular when 50% of the people dont get to open their mouths, and the other half get tortured if they do try to stand against it.

Well you make sweeping generalisations and comments which do show you lack expertise. Read about Algeria and see how democracy let the civilians who voted for a Islamic state let them down, tortured them, burnt them alive including women children babies. Why? Cause they expressed they wishes via the ballot box.

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Lion6969

Perhaps you can show me where I made such a claim of expertise? I NEVER claimed to be an expert. And actually I have spent a good deal of time in the middle east dealing with people of every strata.

guess what? even firsthand, the sharia law is ridiculous. But it is easy to make something sound popular when 50% of the people dont get to open their mouths, and the other half get tortured if they do try to stand against it.

Well you make sweeping generalisations and comments which do show you lack expertise. Read about Algeria and see how democracy let the civilians who voted for a Islamic state let them down, tortured them, burnt them alive including women children babies. Why? Cause they expressed they wishes via the ballot box.

As for shariah being ridiculous I don't agree I think it's practical and effective unlike secular law which looks nice on paper but in practise it's constructed to serve the criminal and ignore the victim!

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Lion6969

Perhaps you can show me where I made such a claim of expertise? I NEVER claimed to be an expert. And actually I have spent a good deal of time in the middle east dealing with people of every strata.

guess what? even firsthand, the sharia law is ridiculous. But it is easy to make something sound popular when 50% of the people dont get to open their mouths, and the other half get tortured if they do try to stand against it.

Well you make sweeping generalisations and comments which do show you lack expertise. Read about Algeria and see how democracy let the civilians who voted for a Islamic state let them down, tortured them, burnt them alive including women children babies. Why? Cause they expressed they wishes via the ballot box.

As for shariah being ridiculous I don't agree I think it's practical and effective unlike secular law which looks nice on paper but in practise it's constructed to serve the criminal and ignore the victim! Oh and you experience in mid east means diddly squat! Because there is no Islamic state or Muslim countries which implement shariah fully, they are Muslim nation run by puppets propped up by the west to maintain the status quo through oppression and tyranny in fear of Islam emerging as a result of the ballot box!

Arrgh! sorry for the multiple posts, IPhone playing up!

Edited by Lion6969

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Fluffybunny

As for shariah being ridiculous I don't agree I think it's practical and effective unlike secular law which looks nice on paper but in practise it's constructed to serve the criminal and ignore the victim!

Yes...or those that criminalize being female...or gay...or having a different opinion.

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shadowhive

I find it funny that all of a sudden we have experts in shariah law. Lol

Don't believe the hype, don't believe all you see on tv and read in papers. But guess that's your tool for educating yourself about Islam.

I don't claim to be an expert on shariah law, but I can see the results that are bought about by governments that claim to be using it.

Many middle eastern goverments are so corrupt and use shariah to maintain a stranglehold on the people.

Shariah is, in and of itself, barbaric. No other religion says that people who leave it should be killed. That people should be stoned on minor offenses. And, since you bring homosexuality up, that is something that shouldn't be punishable ANYWHERE let alone having the death sentence.

I do believe that the majority of muslims are just people to, wanting to get a long in the world but it's the ones in power that have the problems.

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Lion6969

Yes...or those that criminalize being female...or gay...or having a different opinion.

I agree but that's not shariah if you lack the expertise then on what grounds can you make such blank statements.

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markprice

BS. Like i said and it's even simple for single organisms to understand. That shariah is not implemented any where why don't you read my first post and the links on this page aswell as understand that all the places and incidents you refer to are individual extreme actions or state sponsored punishment, carried out by dictators, military and secular propped regimes. Propped by our secular governments to rule brutally ad they do to maintain the status quo.

Your knowledge on Islam is appalling and probably comes from far right sites and books. Someone who thinks saying or even referring to some one as a **** is ok, has an inherit prejudice rooted in the heart.

If Sharia was implemented it would be worse (they would have cut the child's hand off). I guess running over his arm in the street was Islamic "mercy".

I didn't say it was okay; I said it was probably an abbreviation like Saudi. But it's nice to see you are still trying to paint me as a racist even though that entire thread seems to be missing. Look, you make my blood boil with your wicked ideology, so it's YOU not your race. I've known/studied with some great Sufis...but you are nothing like that as far as I can tell. I would love to rip your ideology apart shred by shred, but that would have to be another thread; your choice.

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Stellar

Lion, can you give us a few examples of Shariah laws and punishments?

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Lion6969

I don't claim to be an expert on shariah law, but I can see the results that are bought about by governments that claim to be using it.

I know you did not, I'm not an expert too, if I was I would be a Islamic lawyer, like you have study law in the west so to one has to study shariah too. Which I have to a certain extent but not to be a legal expert in it. The government you refer to do abuse shariah mixed with secular systems to maintain the status quo, this process is funded and aided by western governments who support Saudi, Pakistan to name a few where dictators and monarchies have been aided and funded to keep their seats of power and maintain status quo! I see you dint comment on Algeria I doubt you even read my links fully, if your sincere you will have!

Many middle eastern goverments are so corrupt and use shariah to maintain a stranglehold on the people.

[\quote]

I agree but that's not shariah fault it's the power hungry freaks fault and those nations who prop them up and keep them there! Yes they will even use shariah to abuse their power just like a secular state can be corrupt and it's systems used for abuse.

Shariah is, in and of itself, barbaric. No other religion says that people who leave it should be killed. That people should be stoned on minor offenses. And, since you bring homosexuality up, that is something that shouldn't be punishable ANYWHERE let alone having the death sentence.

[\quote]

Utter rubbish there is no barbarism in shariah. These are laws which protect society and act as a deterrent, unlike secular which slaps the hand sends them to criminal universities only to reoffend. Nice on paper but a joke practically. Homosexuality is not compatible with all world religions, the Christian state the Vatican does not comply with it too. The punishment for it is only applied if one is caught publicly or promoting this lifestyle.

I do believe that the majority of muslims are just people to, wanting to get a long in the world but it's the ones in power that have the problems.

[\quote]

This statement I agree with, but I can add western power holders in there too.

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Lion6969

If Sharia was implemented it would be worse (they would have cut the child's hand off). I guess running over his arm in the street was Islamic "mercy".

[\quote]

Incorrect shariah law only applies to those aged above puberty not 8 yr olds.

I didn't say it was okay; I said it was probably an abbreviation like Saudi. But it's nice to see you are still trying to paint me as a racist even though that entire thread seems to be missing. Look, you make my blood boil with your wicked ideology, so it's YOU not your race. I've known/studied with some great Sufis...but you are nothing like that as far as I can tell. I would love to rip your ideology apart shred by shred, but that would have to be another thread; your choice.

[\quote]

lol what does Saudi abbreviate for. You are making excuses.

To the rest I take your challenge up!

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shadowhive

I don't claim to be an expert on shariah law, but I can see the results that are bought about by governments that claim to be using it.

I know you did not, I'm not an expert too, if I was I would be a Islamic lawyer, like you have study law in the west so to one has to study shariah too. Which I have to a certain extent but not to be a legal expert in it. The government you refer to do abuse shariah mixed with secular systems to maintain the status quo, this process is funded and aided by western governments who support Saudi, Pakistan to name a few where dictators and monarchies have been aided and funded to keep their seats of power and maintain status quo! I see you dint comment on Algeria I doubt you even read my links fully, if your sincere you will have!

Many middle eastern goverments are so corrupt and use shariah to maintain a stranglehold on the people.

I agree but that's not shariah fault it's the power hungry freaks fault and those nations who prop them up and keep them there! Yes they will even use shariah to abuse their power just like a secular state can be corrupt and it's systems used for abuse.

Shariah is, in and of itself, barbaric. No other religion says that people who leave it should be killed. That people should be stoned on minor offenses. And, since you bring homosexuality up, that is something that shouldn't be punishable ANYWHERE let alone having the death sentence.

Utter rubbish there is no barbarism in shariah. These are laws which protect society and act as a deterrent, unlike secular which slaps the hand sends them to criminal universities only to reoffend. Nice on paper but a joke practically. Homosexuality is not compatible with all world religions, the Christian state the Vatican does not comply with it too. The punishment for it is only applied if one is caught publicly or promoting this lifestyle.

I do believe that the majority of muslims are just people to, wanting to get a long in the world but it's the ones in power that have the problems.

This statement I agree with, but I can add western power holders in there too.

I've yet to read the Algerian stuff as of yet, but that's because it's nearly 4am here.

I'm interested in what you'll say about laws and punishments.

I think that any place that enshrines homosexuality as a crime is at fault. Don't believe homosexuality is right/moral/whatever. Fine, but don't force the populace to believe that. Too often homosexuals across the world are bullied, abused and killed just because of their sexuality. If you support a government that believes it's ok to do any of those things, especially the last one then I will be against you.

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Lion6969

I've yet to read the Algerian stuff as of yet, but that's because it's nearly 4am here.

I'm interested in what you'll say about laws and punishments.

I think that any place that enshrines homosexuality as a crime is at fault. Don't believe homosexuality is right/moral/whatever. Fine, but don't force the populace to believe that. Too often homosexuals across the world are bullied, abused and killed just because of their sexuality. If you support a government that believes it's ok to do any of those things, especially the last one then I will be against you.

Well I hope you read it!

Regarding homosexuality in Islam there is no room. If a gay person lived in an Islamic state then what he or she does behind close doors is not problem it's when it's public like adultery or even fornication.

I respect your opinion.

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Lion6969

Which laws are you and stellar interested in finding out about. Shariah is not just criminal law.

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Stellar

Which laws are you and stellar interested in finding out about. Shariah is not just criminal law

Right now, any.

I understand that its against the law to be publicly homosexual in Shariah? What is the punishment?

What other laws are there and their punishments?

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Pseudo Intellectual

If elections are held and democratic processes take place and if the ballot box decides in favour of the majority then they win and the government they elect. This is a secular process which was what was also used in Palestinian elections and the majority voted Hamas. Yeah they have a terrorist background but they had entered the political arena and dialogue. They were voted in using the very systems we use in our secular governments yet no one recognised them to be legitimate, yet the Irish government consisting if former terrorists enter into dialogue and politics and are accepted. Your version of democracy is a farce when the processes bring a result not to your liking then they are destroyed. So even if shariah is voted in by legitimate processes that's still not good enough, this is because of the inherit prejudice deeply rooted in your heart and others against Islam. That's evident. Even though I inisted no viable shariah here and for it to be applied the people have to want it and be in an Islamic state within. Still not good enough. The Algeria example is enough to show when secular democratic processes result in favour of Islam then outrageous secular backed forced is used to destroy it, in the process 1000s die and Islamic fundamentalism is blamed.

An Islamic state has no room for adultery, fornication, intoxicants, prostitution and homosexuality. The Christian state the Vatican also has no room for it.

Once again, you dodge the question. But you don't need to answer it; it's clear to everyone how you really feel. I just wanted you to be honest for once.

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markprice

I understand that its against the law to be publicly homosexual in Shariah? What is the punishment?

Hanged by the kneck until dead.

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markprice

lol what does Saudi abbreviate for. You are making excuses.

To the rest I take your challenge up!

Saudi Arabia.

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markprice

Incorrect shariah law only applies to those aged above puberty not 8 yr olds.

Well that's something to look forward to: amputation.

[you got to fix your quotes or I miss what you said]

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xris

Once again, you dodge the question. But you don't need to answer it; it's clear to everyone how you really feel. I just wanted you to be honest for once.

Yes it is clear to most of us that sharia is barbarous and should be left to those who still live in a medieval times. The dark ages are with us still. I cant imagine that in 2010 we are sill debating when it is appropriate to hang someone for their sexual preference, absolutely amazing. The best of it is that lion thinks we should find it acceptable and not think his views extraordinarily sick.

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AdealJustice

From your own post:

[Executing people for adultery] yes in an islamic state

[Hanging homosexuals] If caught yes, within an islamic state.

[banning ridicule of Muhammad] yes within an islamic state

Etc.

I know. That's called Islamism, the same ideology the likes of Bin Laden and Mullah Omar follow.

“Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an.” IX:113

How does “context, chronology academic perspective and a good understanding of the arabic language” change anything in this verse? Please copy-paste the verse in the original Arabic and explain what it really means.

----

Oh and, please explain why you think hanging homosexuals, banning ridicule of Muhammad, killing apostates (etc.) is okay and applicable in this day and age.

I ahve read Quran, in arabic and i have 2 translations in english but i have never read that any where in the quran. I will check it out tonight and write the the exact quote if it is different.

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TheLionsHunter

Shari'a is a law like any law has made by human, the only difference is that shari'a came from God and from his prophet and no one has the right to eliminate some laws in it because it is from God and his prophet but nowadays a lot of muslims countries have eliminated a lot of shari'a laws because of what they called "human rights" without understaning first that shari'a is a law and has nothing to do with "human rights" like killing a serial killer, we will not say let him alive, this is a human right, while he can kill every day people like chicken.

Please understand that shari'a is a law wheather you like it or not.

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shadowhive

Shari'a is a law like any law has made by human, the only difference is that shari'a came from God and from his prophet and no one has the right to eliminate some laws in it because it is from God and his prophet but nowadays a lot of muslims countries have eliminated a lot of shari'a laws because of what they called "human rights" without understaning first that shari'a is a law and has nothing to do with "human rights" like killing a serial killer, we will not say let him alive, this is a human right, while he can kill every day people like chicken.

Please understand that shari'a is a law wheather you like it or not.

The first part is right. It is a law, like any law, from humans. It didn't come from god, it came from man. You assume to know what god wants by what a person thousands of years ago said. People will say that serial killers deserve death (no just Muslims, but people of all religions) that one is at least a semi-reasonable punishment. But stoning for adultery, treating women as cattle and hanging homosexuals, all of those DO violate human rights.

You have completely contradicted yourself there. It is, like you said HUMAN law. Not god's. Sorry but I won't believe anything is gods law unless I hear it from it's mouth.

Edited by shadowhive

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The Silver Thong

There is no such thing as god's law. Just man using god to enforce doctrine that makes no sense except to those that have a need for something they themselves lack. A leash or a nose ring to be lead.

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ChloeB

I ahve read Quran, in arabic and i have 2 translations in english but i have never read that any where in the quran. I will check it out tonight and write the the exact quote if it is different.

What's the Tabari? That's where that verse is.........Tabari IX:113, not the Koran.

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TheLionsHunter

The first part is right. It is a law, like any law, from humans. It didn't come from god, it came from man. You assume to know what god wants by what a person thousands of years ago said. People will say that serial killers deserve death (no just Muslims, but people of all religions) that one is at least a semi-reasonable punishment. But stoning for adultery, treating women as cattle and hanging homosexuals, all of those DO violate human rights.

You have completely contradicted yourself there. It is, like you said HUMAN law. Not god's. Sorry but I won't believe anything is gods law unless I hear it from it's mouth.

This is beyond your mind, you will not understand why does shari'a tell us to stone for adultery and by the way this law can not be valid if you don't bring four witnesses, so this law is no longer valid because people lie and can be corrupted easily, the punishment can be applicable only if you will provide 4 witnesses or caught by caps practicing adultery. And there are no law in shari'a said that we must hang homosexuels, where did you find that? homosexuel is an abnormal act and can be dangerous for the whole society and it can bring a new diseases those can kill innocent people and make others misrable so, it is a crime too, but the punishement is stoning to death (again it's a law has nothing to do with human rights) and it is only applicable if you see both of men doing this act which is a sin and it can be forgotten if the both of men who have been caught repent and the punishment will not proceed. treating women as cattle, that was rude, shari'a have never said that in any way, and this subject is beyond your mind and you will not understand even if I explain to you how women should be treated, the only thing I can say to you, is that Islam or shari'a has gave laws to women more than any system in the world or laws have ever did.

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