Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Persia

Who's Afraid of Shariah ?

1,007 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Stellar

Religions should be judged on it's scripture and claims of divinie inspiration. But never by it's followers who are human and fallible and corruptble a true message from god cannot be any of the latter.

I disagree. I think religions should be judged on the actions of their followers. The "true message from god" can be interpreted in many different ways. If the majority of, say, Christians think and act a certain way and believe its ok to go and kill, say, pagans, well, what really is Christianity at that point? Telling me that they arent "true" Christians doesnt change a think..

Defining a religion based on one persons interpretation of who is a "proper" *insert religion here* is irrelevant. The beliefs/actions/attitudes of the majority are what truely defines the religion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stellar

First I like to make it clear that homosexuality is not compatible with any religion in the world and nearly all prescribe a punishment!

Irrelevant.

In Islamic state homosexuality, fornication, adultery and sexual promiscuity is forbidden. If someone is caught in either act and was witnessed by credible witness who have no blemish on their record and are known socially as reliable and honest, then that person would face a trial for his action, if guilty he is given the choice to abstain and repent, leave the state or face the punishment. Now when they are told to repent they are also informed the reasons it's wrong in Islam etc, if after this point the person rejects abstaining then he must leave the state if he still rejects, he is rejecting the word of god thus rebelling against god and the state. Only then they are punished!

Sounds like youre on your way to Nazi germany almost. Difference being the "punishment" is stoning, and not a gas chamber.

So it would not be a problem for them too. Basically what I'm saying shariah applies in an Islamic state where majority are Muslim and majority are against homosexuality, thus the law is in place to keep homosexuality out of society like sexual promiscuity too whether hetro or homo.

Thats like saying "Well, in Nazi Germany, the majority of the population was not jewish, therefore it was ok."

What is good for the whole society has precedence.

What was "good" for German society a half century ago was killing Jews... Guess thats ok?

If homosexuality is not a choice can you prove it, is there a gay gene, no! But that's a different debate. Show me a gay baby some one born gay, a child gay who is born and predisposed towards homosexuality, you can't! Why, because no one is born gay, it's a lifestyle choice but that a different debate.

Show me a child heterosexual. Bet you you cant... because up until the teenage years, children dont put any thought into sex.

You see as humans we have only progressed technologically, but problems such as fornication, adultery and homosexuality have been around for centuries.

And yet, society has grown in population... seems those "pesky" homosexuals didnt bring an end to the species afterall!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stellar

You know what the most astounding part of this is? All these posts coming from Lion and TheLionsHunter, all these posts talking about how the punishment for homosexuality is stoning to death... this comes from supposed "moderate-muslims". If these are truely the beliefs of moderate-muslims, then my respect for them and their belief has diminished. If this is really how the majority of muslims think, then how is it really a suprise that people are put-off by them?

Tell me, Lion, what else is illegal in Sharia?

How about laws involving women? Or non-believers. Are there any?

Edited by Stellar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pseudo Intellectual

What's the Tabari? That's where that verse is.........Tabari IX:113, not the Koran.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Jarir_al-Tabari

It's from Sura 4, verse 34. Ignore Tabari. Here are other translations of the verse:

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. (Pickthall)

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them. (Shakir)

Lol. Dodged what can you make it clear please!

Dodged the question of whether you agree with the morality of, among other things, hanging people for being gay.

Edited by Pseudo Intellectual

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
markprice

If homosexuality is not a choice can you prove it, is there a gay gene, no! But that's a different debate. Show me a gay baby some one born gay, a child gay who is born and predisposed towards homosexuality, you can't! Why, because no one is born gay, it's a lifestyle choice but that a different debate. There is no religion in the world which accepts homosexuality, maybe some pagan and new age religions, but none of the others.

because those are cruel tyrannies. Gay people would naturally not choose to live in a state which does recognise their orientation and life choice.

You are absolutely wrong, of course.

Human life and nature have proven you wrong; you can deny it all you want for the sake of religion, and you will still be wrong. I can't even begin to tell you how wrong you are. And not only you are wrong, because the reason you are wrong is irrelevant, but your justification for your religion being wrong and then requiring punishment/extinction is well beyond wrong and falls into purely evil territory...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shadowhive

I don't agree if you study the world religions they reveal a great deal about god and his nature. Scriptures do also relay to man about their world but also the next life heaven hell and the nature of god. Your example about the Egyptian god is good, because from the description you know it's ridiculous as a notion because we now know better, that's why the Quran calls such gods false gods, just a like statue is a false god, man god is also false. You see Islam views and uses science to eliminate such gods because their intrinsically false in nature. Allah or the true god, his nature attributes etc are in the Quran Torah bible Vedas geetas Shintoism etc etc etc.

In my example the Egyptians were as certain in their belief as you are. How do you know that you are more right then they? Sciptures, as I have said repeatedly, are written by men not god and as such AREN'T his word but are mans.

A man today can get a gun, stand inside a clock tower and shoot the people below. When caught he says (and he's certain of this) that god told him to. No court would agree with him and he'd be put in a mental institute (at best). What's to say the people that wrote the scriptures and 'heard the voice of god' aren't the same?

for me it's about the scripture it has to meet certain criteria to prove itself to be from god. Once that is established then the description god gives of himself not a man perspective but gods own words describe certain attributes of himself. What none of us can comprehend him is in a physical sense because when you try you will naturally associate creation with him, the moment you do that, it's not god, it's false just like pictures of god depicting an old bearded man.

Then by that criteria any religion anywhere can prove it is, as long as it believes in a god.

The real sign of a religion is how they treat others. Shariah treats those outside of it's religion as being lesser then those that are part of Islam. That ALONE speaks volumes.

Also there's plenty of other books from the time of the 'scriptures' being written. They have subjects like biology, geography, diseases and the like. Those were FACTS at the time of the scriptures yet we've proven them wrong. Why is it that you think the scriptures have to be 100% accurate when things from the time about facts are wrong?

I believe all of the worlds major religions don't agree with it. You can be Christian or muslim and gay, but neither religion accept it as correct but rather a deviation from the natural. Although Christianity has given them concession due to external pressures that's their choice but their scripture suggests otherwise as it does about a number of things. Homosexuality is a choice no one is born gay full stop! So it's a choice you can't equate to race or something similar which is genetic. Homosexuality is not!

As people have said, it's not a deviant as it occurs in animls too. Scriptures (of all religions) say certain things are wrong and we ignore them. In the Bible wearing different fabrics is wrong as is cutting your hair. Are you saying Christians that do those things aren't true Christians? Those things are in the same part as the Bible as condemning homosexuality yet those two are ignored even by the hardliners.

You are born straight. Of course, you do not give it a moment's thought because so many around you are. It dooesn't cross your mind that you might be gay because you know you're not. If someone asks you to prove that you were born straight you can't. The thought that you might not have been hasn't even crossed your mind. To a gay person, they are exactly the same way, only they have to go through the struggle of acceptance because they'll be surrounded by straight people.

Christianity had to change. When black people were freed do you know who still wanted to keep their slaves? Churches. Should they have been allowed to keep them? The bible says it's ok to keep slaves so does that mke it right?

Religion is a choice yet often it's given the same legal standing as race or gender. Is that right? Religion is most definitely not the same as either yet it's treated the same. You believe that homosexuality's a choice because there's no definite evidence otherwise yet. But religion IS most definitely a choice. Why should something that definitely is a choice be given preference over something that's likely not to be?

I never they can't have families but the default position of nature and society regarding family is mother father separate sexes. The family does form the nucleus of society, more broken families cause damage in the long run, society is not fragile but neither is immune for moral, spiritual and ethical decay, it does take time and effects are visible.

Each family is different. Some families have seven kids some have one. Some families have step-dads instead of fathers and some kids are adopted. There's no longer a set model for a family, and there shouldn't be. To say there is sets an unfair standard on those that doen't fit it.

I agree research is it in it's infancy but those who propose it's natural and people are born have the burden of proof on them to show it is so. But research so far suggests otherwise, there are few studies in favour too, but some of those are flawed and not definitive. Another analogy like yours is that there is no god just because we have not found him it does not mean he does not exist!

What? You're expecting results just like that? There's not a treatment for cancer yet and we've been working on that long, do we give up on that too? Just because we haven't got results immediately doesn't mean there's none to be found.

I never said there's not the possibility of a god. There could be, it's just any religion that claims to know what he wants is wrong.

I do have friends at work from uni from other social activities who are gay. They know my views but are also mature enough to respect them as I respect their view and freedom to be gay.

I respect them greatly because I don't think I could be friends with someone that thought who I was was wrong.

Under Shariah those people would be punished would you be ok with that?

Shariah doesn't respect freedom.

Shariah does evolve with time as your example above, but the initial framework set by god is applicable for all time. You see as humans we have only progressed technologically, but problems such as fornication, adultery and homosexuality have been around for centuries. So human behaviour has not changed much in reality those shariah is applicable today to social problems as it was back then. People still kill, rape, steal and other things.

Again, shariah is set by MAN. Heere you go claiing to know what god thinks again. It's no different from if an ant looked up, saw us and tried to comprend us. It couldn't. It couldn't even presume to know what we are thinking.

Yes those problems will be around for as long as humanity exists, but the punishments have changed. And don't lump homosexuality with those, just because your religion does.

Assaid above, there are things that are wrong in the bible yet we don't do them because they're ridiculous. What gives shariah the right to be so static?

It's punishment for being different it's for punishment for illegal actions. World is full of individuals but we are a global community too.

And for Islam to survive in the long term it needs to adapt Shariah. The global community is made up of people of all races, sexualities, genders and religions. Shariah doesn't share the beliefs of the rest of the world so it won't survive in the long term if it stays the same.

I have huge respect for single parent families majority of them are women. I have a problem with men who fornicate but don't take responsibility for their actions. I don't mean offence at all!

Yes they are. My father was married to my mother who up and left before I was even born, but I digress. My mother didn't feel obligated to find someone else to give me a mother/father family just because that's 'normal' and no one else should have to either. People shouldn't ;stay togetehr for the kids' or anything like that either.

Edited by shadowhive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheLionsHunter

I'm not exactly sure. That verse IX:113 is not in the Koran. This is:

IX: 113 It is not for the Prophet, and those who believe, to pray for the

forgiveness of idolaters even though they may be near of kin [to them] after it

hath become clear that they are people of hell-fire.

But when I googled that verse, it's coming up on sites like this: http://prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Quotes_Women.Islam

Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."

http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/islam/tabari

I'm not sure if it's in that or not, all you really see if those kinds of sites quoting it.

Ah ok, so Tabari is a name of a scholar not a verse. And he is trying here to point out that beating is not about the practice of the religion, it is a muslim man's concept of the verse. So it is not about the religion, it is one man's actions over his wife, and for the verse where it showed that Quran allows beating is still under discussion because the word "Daraba" in arabic depends on its use in the sentence, and it can mean "beat" , "go abroad", or "give"(an example).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheLionsHunter

I still disagree that homosexuality is not compartible with religion. You can be Muslim/Christian etc and still be a homosexual. It's ironic because religion is a choice, but homosexuality isn't.

I 100% disagree with you, homosexuality is a choice and you can ask a psychiatre about that. And now they can fix this sexual orientation and stop the feeling over the same sex. And it is a psychological disorder and it can be healed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shadowhive

I 100% disagree with you, homosexuality is a choice and you can ask a psychiatre about that. And now they can fix this sexual orientation and stop the feeling over the same sex. And it is a psychological disorder and it can be healed.

Oh really? So how come it was removed from the list of disorders in America decades ago? Homosexuality isn't a choice any more then hetrosexuality is. Nor is it a disease. People that claim to stop the feeling but they are nothing more the frauds that use brain washing to do so. I'd never submit to such treatment in a million years ago nor would anyone in their right minds.

Religion, on the other hand, IS a choice. In some cases it could be seen as delusion or a mental or psychological disorder however I'd not try and 'fix' you as you want to 'fix' homosexuals.

Edited by shadowhive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ChloeB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Jarir_al-Tabari

It's from Sura 4, verse 34. Ignore Tabari. Here are other translations of the verse:

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. (Pickthall)

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them. (Shakir)

Okay, the way that part you quoted looked like it was saying it was in the Quran, that verse it mentioned, but I looked and see now it wasn't. Yeah, I know these verses, I've posted them a few times asking about this scourging wives.

Ah ok, so Tabari is a name of a scholar not a verse. And he is trying here to point out that beating is not about the practice of the religion, it is a muslim man's concept of the verse. So it is not about the religion, it is one man's actions over his wife, and for the verse where it showed that Quran allows beating is still under discussion because the word "Daraba" in arabic depends on its use in the sentence, and it can mean "beat" , "go abroad", or "give"(an example).

Thank you, like I said, I've posted those verses a few times before, and I hadn't really got much of an answer.

I typed you guy's up something, this is from a book I have The History of God by Karen Armstrong, I've mentioned to Lion6969 a few times in another thread.

During Muhammad's lifetime, this had included the equality of the sexes. Today, it is common in the West to depict Islam as inherently misognystic religion, but like Christianity, the religion of al-Lah was originally positive for women. During the jabiliyyah, the pre-Islamic period, Arabia had preserved the attitudes toward women which had prevailed before the Axial Age. Polygamy, for example, was common, and wives remained in their father's households. Elite women enjoyed considerable power and prestige -- Muhammad's first wife, Khadija, for example, was a successful merchant -- but the majority were on par with slaves; they had no political or human rights, and female infanticide was common. Women had been among Muhammad's earliest converts, and their emancipation was a project that was dear to his heart. The Koran strictly forbade the killing of female children and rebuked the Arabs for their dismay when a girl was born. It also gave women the legal rights of inheritance and divorce: most Western women had nothing comparable in the nineteenth century, Muhammad encouraged women to play an active role in the affairs of the ummah, and they expressed their views forthrightly, confident that they would be heard. On one occasion, for example, the women of Medina had complained to the Prophet that the men were outstripping them in the study of the Koran and asked them to help him catch up. This Muhammad did. One of their most important questions ws why the Koran addressed men only when women had also made their surrender to God. The result was a revelation that addressed women as well as men and emphasized the absolute moral and spiritual equality of the sexes. Thereafter, the Koran quite frequently addressed women explicitly, something that rarely happens in either the Jewish or Christian scriptures.

Unfortunately, as in Christianity, the religion was later hijacked by the men, who interpreted the texts in a way that was negative for Muslim women. The Koran does not prescribe the veil for all women but only for Muhammad's wives, as a mark of their status. Once Islam had taken its place in the civilized world, however, Muslims adopted those customs of the Oikumene which relegated women to second-class status. They adopted the customs of viling women and secluding them in harems from Persia and Christian Byzantium, where women had long been marginalized this way. By the time of Abbasid caliphate (750-1228), the position of Muslim women was as bad as that of their sisters in Jewish and Christian society. Today Muslim feminists urge their menfolk to return to the original spirit of the Koran.

This reminds us that, like any other faith, Islam could be interpreted in a number of different ways; consequently it evolved its own sects and divisions.

History of God by Karen Armstrong p. 157-158

And you might have a look here too, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Islam

I think Muhammad's first wife, was actually his employer in the beginning, she'd hired him to run a caravan for her, and she actually proposed to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheLionsHunter

No it isn't a law...it a barbaric way of life for people who refuse to advance forward 1400 years to the current time. Unfortunately there are enough barbaric people who are so isolated that they think it is a good thing.

You make the HUGE assumption that YOUR god is the same as everyone else. Wrong. Your god is no different than the belief in Zeus, Quetzalcoatl, or Pan; just a myth that was once assumed to be the absolute truth and has since fallen into history as a pointless charade of power and manipulation. Soon enough other religions seen today will do the same, and people will look back at islam with the same regard as they do the ancient romans...without the quaint charm.

That was your opinion and you can say what you want but you can't disprove history and people those witnessed it, I can assure that Islam is the best religion and no religions have existed or ever existed before it, the first religion was Islam and the last was Islam too, for the others religions, we all know that have been created by man himself, but sorry I have to say that our prophet did not create this religion and we as Muslims did not create it, it's a God's creation and a God's choice, we have holy Quran which is a book contains lot of miracles the best miracle is the way of writing and the words that can go with every situation in the present day, as an arabic I can say that Muhammed peace be upon him can not say a verse like those.

Aissa(Jesus) has never said to his believers that their religion is "christanity" never, after his disappearence, they have chosed to name their religion as christianity from the root of "Jesus Christ".

the prophets of jews have never said to his followers that their religion is "Judaism ", they took the name from "Judah". and the same for other religions ..........etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shadowhive

That was your opinion and you can say what you want but you can't disprove history and people those witnessed it, I can assure that Islam is the best religion and no religions have existed or ever existed before it, the first religion was Islam and the last was Islam too, for the others religions, we all know that have been created by man himself, but sorry I have to say that our prophet did not create this religion and we as Muslims did not create it, it's a God's creation and a God's choice, we have holy Quran which is a book contains lot of miracles the best miracle is the way of writing and the words that can go with every situation in the present day, as an arabic I can say that Muhammed peace be upon him can not say a verse like those.

Aissa(Jesus) has never said to his believers that their religion is "christanity" never, after his disappearence, they have chosed to name their religion as christianity from the root of "Jesus Christ".

the prophets of jews have never said to his followers that their religion is "Judaism ", they took the name from "Judah". and the same for other religions ..........etc.

That is extremely dismissive and arrogant.

Religions have existed before and, like any religion, it is created by man. Almost religion claims to be the the word of god, so why is yours different?

If god exists he gave us free will to choose our own religion. You can believe or not. If god has a problem with my sexuality then I will answer to HIM not YOU or your religion.

Each prophet says the same that what they are saying is the word of god. You are saying your one is the ONLY one. How arrogant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shadowhive

Okay, the way that part you quoted looked like it was saying it was in the Quran, that verse it mentioned, but I looked and see now it wasn't. Yeah, I know these verses, I've posted them a few times asking about this scourging wives.

Thank you, like I said, I've posted those verses a few times before, and I hadn't really got much of an answer.

I typed you guy's up something, this is from a book I have The History of God by Karen Armstrong, I've mentioned to Lion6969 a few times in another thread.

History of God by Karen Armstrong p. 157-158

And you might have a look here too, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Islam

I think Muhammad's first wife, was actually his employer in the beginning, she'd hired him to run a caravan for her, and she actually proposed to him.

I had no idea about that. It's sad when one group hijacks a religion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheLionsHunter

Oh really? So how come it was removed from the list of disorders in America decades ago? Homosexuality isn't a choice any more then hetrosexuality is. Nor is it a disease. People that claim to stop the feeling but they are nothing more the frauds that use brain washing to do so. I'd never submit to such treatment in a million years ago nor would anyone in their right minds.

It has been removed because some homosexuals got power and they have made a powerful organisations to defend their sexual orinetation, weather you like it or not, it is a psychological disorder and it is against the natural patern of life. can you tell me why would a guy do sex or love with another guy ? we know that the reason for being with a woman is reproducing and make a new generation of "girls and guys".

Religion, on the other hand, IS a choice. In some cases it could be seen as delusion or a mental or psychological disorder however I'd not try and 'fix' you as you want to 'fix' homosexuals.

Yes, I'm aware that religion is a choice but what you don't know that the only delusion and mental disorder is to believe that being gay is not a choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shadowhive

It has been removed because some homosexuals got power and they have made a powerful organisations to defend their sexual orinetation, weather you like it or not, it is a psychological disorder and it is against the natural patern of life. can you tell me why would a guy do sex or love with another guy ? we know that the reason for being with a woman is reproducing and make a new generation of "girls and guys".

Yes, I'm aware that religion is a choice but what you don't know that the only delusion and mental disorder is to believe that being gay is not a choice.

First of you, it is NOT A DISORDER! It isn't against the natural pattern of life (animals of all kinds do it, and they don't have religious nuts like you shoving morality down their throats). Also there is more to hetrosexuality then having children.

Ok let me tell you why I find men attractive. It's because I DO. It's because I have since I started thinking about sex. Why do I have to expalain myself? Why should any homosexual or bisexual HAVE to explain themselves to the likes of you?

Two straight guys can be attacted to entirely different women for entirely different reasons. Homosexuality attraction is no different then a man liking a women because she has dark hair or big breasts.

I'd NEVER ask a straight person to explain themselves to me. I don't see why I have to to you and I find it offensive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheLionsHunter

That is extremely dismissive and arrogant.

Religions have existed before and, like any religion, it is created by man. Almost religion claims to be the the word of god, so why is yours different?

If god exists he gave us free will to choose our own religion. You can believe or not. If god has a problem with my sexuality then I will answer to HIM not YOU or your religion.

Each prophet says the same that what they are saying is the word of god. You are saying your one is the ONLY one. How arrogant

I didn't say that litterly, I've said that the other religions have made their religions according to their prophets names and their prophets have never told them to do that, unlike for Islam, our prophet didn't name it or even his followers, they have got the name from God himself according to Quran.

Do not dismiss what I said.

Yes, I didn't deny that all the prophets said that the words that they have got, are the words of God, they are right, but some followers have changed it and distorted the words of God, then they are now unvalid and people must not follow their contents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shadowhive

I didn't say that litterly, I've said that the other religions have made their religions according to their prophets names and their prophets have never told them to do that, unlike for Islam, our prophet didn't name it or even his followers, they have got the name from God himself according to Quran.

Do not dismiss what I said.

Yes, I didn't deny that all the prophets said that the words that they have got, are the words of God, they are right, but some followers have changed it and distorted the words of God, then they are now unvalid and people must not follow their contents.

So if other religions have changed and distorted it, what makes you so sure yours haven't?

As Chloe pointed out Muhammad fought for womens rights yet now people have used his teachings to keep women covered up and disrespect them.

As I have said, if god's got a problem with me being me then I'll deal with that when I meet him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheLionsHunter

First of you, it is NOT A DISORDER! It isn't against the natural pattern of life (animals of all kinds do it, and they don't have religious nuts like you shoving morality down their throats). Also there is more to hetrosexuality then having children.

Ok let me tell you why I find men attractive. It's because I DO. It's because I have since I started thinking about sex. Why do I have to expalain myself? Why should any homosexual or bisexual HAVE to explain themselves to the likes of you?

Two straight guys can be attacted to entirely different women for entirely different reasons. Homosexuality attraction is no different then a man liking a women because she has dark hair or big breasts.

I'd NEVER ask a straight person to explain themselves to me. I don't see why I have to to you and I find it offensive.

I didn't tell you to explain yourself, I'm just trying to get an answer from you. I think I've said that the reason for being with a woman is not her big breast or her big body or whatever a guy might like, the reason is reproducing. my question was simple and the answer must be simple too, why would a guy be with a guy ?. Think of visiting a psychiatre and have the courage to change yourself, you have just said that it is against the patern of life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shadowhive

I didn't tell you to explain yourself, I'm just trying to get an answer from you. I think I've said that the reason for being with a woman is not her big breast or her big body or whatever a guy might like, the reason is reproducing. my question was simple and the answer must be simple too, why would a guy be with a guy ?. Think of visiting a psychiatre and have the courage to change yourself, you have just said that it is against the patern of life.

Clearly you missed my point entirely.

I have answered that question: a guy is with a guy because he wants to be. Because he's attracted to other men and not women. Would you dumb a girl if she was infertile?

If you were here, I swear I would slap you. I like guys, I like women. I have no problem with who I am. You clearly do. I have been too a therapist before, when I was a teenager and I was being bullied by people that had the exact same reasoning as you. I have overcome them and I am happy with who I am.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheLionsHunter

So if other religions have changed and distorted it, what makes you so sure yours haven't?

Well, what makes me sure is numbers and some miracles mentioned in Quran and all the prophets that have been sent are mentioned also in Quran with more others haven't been decreed in the other books "bible(Engil) and Towrath".

we love Aissa(Jesus) peace be upon him more than christians do. we love all the prophets like our prophet.

And what makes me more sure is the language, it has been writen in a way that can not be distorted, I know that because of my arabic backgrouds. You can not add or delete things, because the verse will lose its function and people(the well-known of arabic) can easily distinguish that there is somethng wrong.

As Chloe pointed out Muhammad fought for womens rights yet now people have used his teachings to keep women covered up and disrespect them.

So judge the people, not the religion.

As I have said, if god's got a problem with me being me then I'll deal with that when I meet him.

God have no problem with you being you, because it is your choice to be that way, but he has sent a reminder that the wrong choice is with the wrong place in the day of judgement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Silver Thong

Think of visiting a psychiatre and have the courage to change yourself,

Why should he do that? surly not to satisfy your imaginary friend I hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheLionsHunter

Clearly you missed my point entirely.

I have answered that question: a guy is with a guy because he wants to be. Because he's attracted to other men and not women. Would you dumb a girl if she was infertile?

infertility can be healed and now we can have an artificial pregnancy, so it is not a problem and man nowadays will not dumb a girl because she is infertile.

And about your answer is really irrelvent and poor, so you will be with a guy because of your sexual orientation, that needs a healing classes. Again it is still against the natural order the natural patern of life. because of an attraction of your own sex which is called sexual perversion. Homosexuality has never been accepted in any system.

If you were here, I swear I would slap you.

Ah, I don't think so, so calm down.

I like guys, I like women. I have no problem with who I am. You clearly do. I have been too a therapist before, when I was a teenager and I was being bullied by people that had the exact same reasoning as you. I have overcome them and I am happy with who I am.

You have no problem with you are, that wasn't the case. your act still unacceptable whether you like or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheLionsHunter

Why should he do that? surly not to satisfy your imaginary friend I hope.

because he said that being gay is against the natural patern of life and then he said that he likes to be that way, so I advise him to visit a psychiatre because he is in a struggle between reality and fantasy.

Just for your little information, I've never had an imaginary friend, this is a western habit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Silver Thong

infertility can be healed and now we can have an artificial pregnancy, so it is not a problem and man nowadays will not dumb a girl because she is infertile.

That's hypocritical to say homosexuals are unnatural and a perversion but then to say artificial insemination is natural? come on man get with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shadowhive

Why should he do that? surly not to satisfy your imaginary friend I hope.

Thank you silver:)

infertility can be healed and now we can have an artificial pregnancy, so it is not a problem and man nowadays will not dumb a girl because she is infertile.

And about your answer is really irrelvent and poor, so you will be with a guy because of your sexual orientation, that needs a healing classes. Again it is still against the natural order the natural patern of life. because of an attraction of your own sex which is called sexual perversion. Homosexuality has never been accepted in any system.

Of course my answer is ireelvent to you! You are so blind you can't accept the possibility! It is NOT a perversion. Homosexuality was accepted in many olden societies before Christianity and Islam screwed thinks up and held humanity back.

Ah, I don't think so, so calm down.

No, if you were here in front of me saying that to my face I would.

You have no problem with you are, that wasn't the case. your act still unacceptable whether you like or not.

I don't have a problem with who I am, you do however. No, it is unacceptable to YOU.

We humans live on this planet for a brief amount of time. To hate each other (as you and your religion hates the homosexuals) is a waste of that life. If your god exists and wants to judge me then fine, he can do it in the afterlife on his own. He doesn't need you to do it for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.