The God Conspiracy Theory

[Guest Guest]

Well this is not a conspiracy theory about extra terestrials or anything, but I think it might still be relevant here.

I was raised as a christian, but as i grew up the theory's of evolution and so forth have made me question the existance of god or any all mighty governing force that somehow created the world and it's inhabitance.

Well, i believe that the governments of the world realised the importance of such religions, and how they could use these religions to keep the people in-line so they won't cause trouble and so they will obey the laws of the government, and even not attempt to rebel against it.

If people are not "sinning" then they aren't making trouble, just think how much worse this world would be if people weren't afraid of going to hell.

No one would care about killing each other, there would be anarchy's against governments all over the world.

The sense of false hope that God or any other all-mighty force like him is a very good thing, it makes people work harder because "one day they might get into heaven" And it also gives people reprocutions for their actions.

Basicly i am saying that a government adobts a religion to keep control, you see it on all american currency. "In god we trust"

I know is hastlily written, i apologize, heh.

[Guest Guest]

Now, I agree that a government MIGHT do that, but your reasoning is faultered. You say that they made up Christianity to "keep people in line", so there will be less killing and such. But the fact is, only 1 or 2 percent of the world's population are christians, so there is ALOT of sinning going on. If you grew up in a Christian family, you must have learned to have faith in God. They must have told you that a lot of theories would come up to tear you away from God, but you shouldn't listen to them. As for, "In God We Trust", that was started by the founding fathers who were very strict religious men. I don't care what ANYONE says about God not existing, so for all those people out there who think I'm ccrazy, just don't respond to this message saying that God was just created by man to make up for the unexplained...

[Guest Guest]

I was refering to ALL forms of government, and ALL religions.

Almost every country HAS an "official religion" of sorts, meaning that the majority of their people believe in that.

I had many grammer errors and such in my last paragraph, oh well, i was never known for my english skills.

~ G I F N E R

[Guest Guest]

Sorry Gifner. I misunderstood you. I agree that a country in the Middle East or something could have a government that makes people stay in line by making up a religion.

[Guest Guest]

I find it quite unpluralistic of you to think that your religion is the best and that Christianity couldn't be made up for gov't use, but one from the middle-east could. Don't you think that perhaps you could be wrong? I'm not trying to change you or anything, only open your mind. Because if Christianity is THE religion, than an awful lot of people are going to 'hell' because of what they beleive and because of what they were brought up on. I find this highly unlikely. To me, that sounds like communism. "You will do this, you will not go against it, and everyone else is wrong. You will praise no other idols before me and never deny me or go against me"...that's what it sounds like to me. Perhaps the Christians are wrong. Maybe a different religion is right. You could be p***ing off the real god more and more everyday. In the path of religion, I took my own course-I'm an independant. I'm in no way saying you are wrong, just saying that any one could be right or wrong. I could be wrong. Just think about it.

[Guest Guest]

Well, I did think about it, and I must say that I think thet my mind is ALREADY open to the idea of God's existence. And I'm not showing any unfaithfulness to my relationship with the God I believe in, but I must agree that everyone thinks they're right. Even me. But the way I learned about Christianity, everything fit together and made sense. Maybe other religions make sense too, and I'll open my mind to that, but not my soul. And as for "you will do this, you will not go against that" and etc - The bible doesn't say that everyone else is wrong. I believe that no matter what RELIGION you are (Jewish, Catholic, Christian), you'll still go to heaven if you believe that Jesus gave his life for you and you try to repay him for that. And the bible doesn't say "YOU WILL" do this and that - it merely states the things you can and SHOULD do to thank Jesus for his forgiveness. Now I'm having trouble just thinking about this, but maybe another religion IS right, and I learned wrong. But until I hear some hard core evidence about that, I'm always going to be a Christian. And if all you people open your minds to ghosts, UFOs, and bigfoot, then why don't you take a risk and open your mind to religion. Now, I'm not going to say Christianity, because you can be whatever you want to be as long as you believe in SOMETHING at least. You can decide which one's right for yourself, but I believe in Christianity and that's it.

[JesusFreakGS]

I must clear something up that I posted in January. I was kind of uninformed back then, but now I realize that according to God, Jews don't go to heaven. I might sound really stupid, but NOW I know that the Jews don't believe Jesus was Messiah. I can just imagine how stupid I sound, and how many people see what I just said to be harsh or something, that only Christians go to heaven. Truth is, I'm not an expert on this stuff. The main point is this: Jesus was a real man. He's not just a fictional character made up to improve society. It's a fact that he existed. It's just whether people believe he was Messiah or not. I don't know about you people, but turning water to wine, feeding thouands of people, and then coming back from the dead; those sure sound like Messianic properties to me. Read the Left Behind books...

[Homer]

This is in reply to the original statement made by Gifner:

Most people dont even practice that which they believe in anyway.

Most countries dont have "official" religions. The most widely practiced religion doesnt make it "official"

Religion doesnt keeps people in line.

Many conflicts, and even wars, are started BECAUSE of religion. And even so-called christian nations(specifically, but not limited to the U.S.)have very high crime rates. Crime rates arent related to their religious beliefs, but to political freedoms.

The only thing that has kept people in line is a dictatorial government. And the people arent kept in line due to fear of going to hell, but fear of being imprisoned or executed.

[Lori Cordini]

When one studies religion and its origins you will find a political base.  Keep the people in fear, ignorance and they are easy to control.  Money is provided if you tell them they are "sinners" and to repent there always seems to be money involved.  Bigger and better churches than the one next to you reeks with power management.

Now spirituality, virtues, concepts that revolve around the soul as an eternal essense is another factor most religions don't take into account.  Religions are dogmas made by man to serve man.

Spirituality is of the soul and the Great Teachers taught of spirituality, of love, of virtues.  Not one Messenger "established a religion" (not even Jesus!)  Okay you say Jesus told Peter he was the rock upon which the church would be built.  Think a bit folks, there were no churches during Jesus' time, no corner Baptist Church even!  So you have to think "church" isn't what he was talking about, but the concepts, spirituality, truths he spoke of.

As far as the existence of God...quite so!  But not in the way most religions, especially the way that religions have characterized the Force, the ALL that is pure unity, pure love, pure energy all the good stuff we talk about that the soul recognizes and is a part of.

Religions have humanized this Force of existence.  And humans have fallen for it, because that is all they can understand.  A child looks up to a "father" figure, powerful, loving, one who punishes if you aren't good, etc. etc. etc.

This is NOTHING like GOD...this is a personification for ease of understanding.  

Personally I would like to give humans more credit than most religions do...step out of the box folks and see GOD from a UNIVERSAL, COSMIC WHOLENESS and you will begin to see the real power behind the "name"!

well, so much for that

 :

[Homer]

Lori

When you stated that there were no churches in Jesus' time you are mistaken. In a traditional sense, a church is a place of worship to ones God, and also a place of fellowship with others of the same belief. You are correct in that they werent called "churches", but they most certainly were churches. Various religions from all over the world had churches-that is places specifically designed for worship and fellowship.

In Matthew 16:18 King James Version, Jesus informed Peter that "upon this rock I will build my church...". Thats not stating the church would be built--as you stated--but that HE would build HIS CHURCH.

Jesus also spoke against organized religion as a bunch rules to blinly obey the hypocrites in charge. He stated obeying the Father out of love is by far more righteous. A relationship with HIS children based on love is what GOD wants from us, not a blind following of a bunch of rules like  robots.

Dont get me wrong, Im not a know-it-all who pretends to know what GOD wants. Iam a christian who believes in the christian HOLY BIBLE, and this is where I got my information. Im not trying to force my beliefs on anyone, but you appeared to be translating a certain part of the BIBLE incorrectly.

If I read you wrong, I apoligize.

Homer

[Saru]

It's true that in some ancient civilizations, the fear of being punished by a divine being was enough to make people stay in line. The Ancient Greeks for example, believed in the existence of many different Gods, and strong belief in a deity that would punish those who performed evil deeds, would most certainly have prevented a lot of such crimes ever happening.

In the distant past, Gods were the only explanation for events that ancient people's could not explain. The first God was The Sun, a large glowing ball of light that made the darkness go away. People in the past may have looked upon a God as being their protector, and those who committed crimes would have to face the wrath of that God. Perhaps this would have deterred a lot of would be criminals from performing such crimes.

It's unlikely that anything such as that is happening today, people of this day and age would need more than the possibility of divine intervention to stop them from committing crimes. But in ages past, an emphasis on a God's way of handling criminals, may have been more than enough.

[Homer]

Well stated SaRuMaN. I was wondering if anyone would come up with an example. Im in agreement with you on all points.

[Lori Cordini]

thanks for the shariangs on "churches"  I understand your thoughts on that now.  A kind of lumping together of temples, synagogues, sacrifical sites, etc. etc.

I share not to criticize ANYONE's knowing or sharing or "belief system" -- no one has that kind of power (to judge).  However, my primary goal is investigation and self-thinking and many religions, cults, or followings over-power that process.  

Discussion and sharing is what it is all about, and in that process we all have an opportunity to have new insights!  

-lori

[Homer]

Im in total agreement with you there Lori:)

nobody has the power to judge, and many religious sects from all over the world like to suppress the free will thinking of their followers.

What a better world this would be if people would respect everybody regardless of their beliefs...wait...I mean my religious masters are telling me to ignore that last statement...must obey...

[danielson]

Exactly, religion - especially the christian faiths cause predice against others of different faiths. Even within the christain faiths for example: the PROTESTANTS and CATHOLICS have been at war for years in NORTHERN IRELAND. I have faith in god, but I don't think the way you go about worshiping is not too important.

I would not be supprised if GOD was NOT a conspiricy, but religions themselves are - created by powers that be, to supress the masses and play them off against each other.

Edited July 9, 2004 by danielson

[Atlantis Rises]

Religion is not a conspiricy, Danielson. I think you've been watching too many X-File episodes. (Hints at avatar!) Religion is a mindset that allows people to bind as a community who have faith in a commonity, spiritually, in an omnipotent and benevolent being who may or not exist. Personally I do believe in an afterlife. There has to be something better than this.

[danielson]

Ye lets hope so this world is getting a bit too harsh

[gsr]

Yes, The God Conspiracy Theory is valid. Yes, religions from the ancients until the present have been used to control populations. What is required is a not so unique relationship between religion and state. The not so unique relationship is the blending of religion and state functions.

Hinduism -- allows for the maintenance of a caste system

Islam -- Immaams rule and allow for arbritrary use of the law they have

Christian[Roman Catholic] -- Pope as arbriter in the affairs of all states. The Vatican side of the Roman Catholic church presides over these state functions of the church.

Animism -- familial rule of shaman and tribal ruler(s)

Though the US is indeed a Christian country from its foundations, it was never meant to have one state denomination or expression of Christianity for the entire country. Unlike Europe, whose regal lineages and divine rights of kingship were bound to a state church controlling subtly both clergy and royal.

Yet, since the US government has departed from its foundation, the free expression of religion withing government settings as schools, government offices and public seasonal displays, has beed denied many. And those who wish to remain in control will continually work for the ignorance and reeducation of our children. Contrary to the truth and the actual history that should be presented in the US highest dollar classrooms, in many areas they lie to their students and parents in the hopes of making this a godless and lawless nation. That is a God conpiracy that has had the support of the NEA and others.

[The Nameless One]

Hell, would be insane heaven would be even more insane.

[Asterix]

Interesting topic, with (If I humbly may say so) quite many erroneous beliefs-which only reflect the general erroneous belief of nations, societies, religions

First of all, people many times tend to forget the dual meaning of the word "religion", which means: "Institution to express belief in a divine power" OR "A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny." Now, the problem is that the latter is something personal, spiritual, and entirely abstract, while the first is something made-up by humans, with ALL the faults and fallacies of the human mind. What better proof for that than History itself, in which Church (or religious leaders speaking and deciding for it, if you prefer) have committed the most vicious of crimes in the name of...Salvation, God, Good. The ultimate hypocrisy! As a result, religion (Christianity e.g.) is connected with something bad, forbidding, negative, disallowing. When even in our supposedly modern and enlightened days Church (I use the word always to refer to the institution) makes people believe that if they have sex before marriage they'll be burning in hellfire, or that if they lie to their parents they have to say 5 "Father of ours" or 7 "Hail Mary" (as if prayers have a $/gallon value!) then how can these people be expected to have a mature and objective thinking?

Quick conclusions: Religion as an institution, Christianity e.g. and its Church, are made from humans, with all the faults of human mind throughout the history. Religion as a belief is the acceptance of a Higher Power; is Faith. Meaning, the essence of things you cannot see.

[Todd]

Asterix I think that your quick conclusions were made toooo hastily.

To equate and condemn All of Christianity based on either negative feelings toward, or the past/present hypocracies of the Catholic church is a bit too sweeping, general, and ultimately unfair don't you think?

There Are Alot of denominations out there Claiming to be Bible based in their beliefs and practices. Do you know how to find out who is and who is not? Look at what the Bible teaches!

IF there is such a thing as right and wrong,(And I strongly believe that there is) then not everyone who claims to be following the Bible and doing Gods will can be IF they're all not doing the same thing which clearly they are not. We must go back to the source if we want to call ourselves Bible believing Christians, or indeed Christians at all, for the Lord himself said "If you love me you will keep my commandments."

Well wishes and thoughtful prayers to all

[DarkAnubis]

i think that theory is kind of off...for two simple reasons. 1)most countries with stable governments have many major religions, not just one, so it would be hard for one government to control them all through it...2)religion and government were both created by man, however, religion came first, so it couldn't have been created by governments to keep people in line

[4dplane]

…religion came first, so it couldn't have been created by governments to keep people in line.

So what is the earliest known religion to man? For the sake of argument I will work off of the idea that the major religions of today started no sooner then 4000 B.C.E. I believe the earliest known human writings are found around 3500 B.C.E. This time could suggest that the major religions of today are the major religions because humans where able to write them down; where all religions before this time, had to be past down via story telling and human memory. In time the religions that where not written down where either forgotten or slaughtered out of existence. With this idea, we can further state that the religions of today come from a time before written history. Religion didn’t just pop up one day and become the religions that we have today. It probably started in multiple locates with a common theme like; sun, light, dark, moon, fear, hunger. Later the theme may have become more complex – sun cycles, moon cycles, good, bad, birth, death, immortality (heaven), and eternal hell.

So to me the original religions of the world where not created by clansmen/women to control the tribe’s actions in the premeditated sense. As time progressed with the advent of written langue which equates to more complex thought (including the heightened ability to exploit your fellow man) leaders of the world began to use religion to control the masses.

If people are not "sinning" then they aren't making trouble, just think how much worse this world would be if people weren't afraid of going to hell.

No one would care about killing each other, there would be anarchy's against governments all over the world.

This is almost blasphemy; just because a person doesn’t follow a written set of rules doesn’t mean that this person will fall into a world of wickedness. That’s like saying your born bad – o may fault according to Christianity I am born in sin (born wicked!). Well who came up with that cruddy idea? Lucky for me I didn’t feel the wrath of religion until my early twenties. So I have no guilt for being born and wanting to live.

Edited July 20, 2004 by 4dplane

[gsr]

Well coersion may be possible in an illiterate culture as much as a literate ones. If you study the primitive modern cultures of Malaysia and Pacifica that have been found, many of these had complete religious and social structures with only oral communication. Otherwise, dating is fine. Based on 4000 BCE dating of civilization you end up with a timeline that would locate people groups around Tigris-Euphrates or the Indus River areas. Leaving the first religions to be early animistic, pantheistic, or for a few rare groups monotheistic. In the early records, few if any are noted to be atheistic.

Yet for most tribal people, religion and state if not one, were very closely intertwined with each other. The relations between tribal shaman and ruler helped to maintain order for that trible. Yes early religions were also tied to natural events. Keeping festivals and sacrifices and the dates of these in tribal memory would help with the management of farms, fishing, sailing, and other travel.

[saucy]

Religion has been around even before most of the governments came about. If religion is being pushed on people, then why is it becoming more and more banned amongst governmental processes, laws and education?