Flying fish can remain aloft for up to 45 sec

[Karlis]

How do they do it? Two engineers at Seoul National University in Korea, Haecheon Choi and Hyungmin Park, have just found out. Read more...

[Druidus-Logos]

In the future, I predict that the descendants of fish like this will likely start taking to the air more and more. They will be amphibaerial. They will likely return to the water to breed, but will feed and live in humid areas, probably coastal.

This is a LONG time off, but interesting to think about nonetheless.

[J4yD0r]

In the future, I predict that the descendants of fish like this will likely start taking to the air more and more. They will be amphibaerial. They will likely return to the water to breed, but will feed and live in humid areas, probably coastal.

This is a LONG time off, but interesting to think about nonetheless.

Ok, I can see where you could get this idea, and it is pretty cool and entirely possible, but still...what could possibly force fish to take to the air half the time? It seems to me that it would be pretty unnecessary...

Still a cool idea though

[Druidus-Logos]

Ok, I can see where you could get this idea, and it is pretty cool and entirely possible, but still...what could possibly force fish to take to the air half the time? It seems to me that it would be pretty unnecessary...

Still a cool idea though

Many things. Predators. Overfishing. Pollution in the ocean making those who remain in it cancerous and sickly. Resources out of the sea that are better than those within. Competition from jellyfish.

Seriously, tons of possible phenomenon could force this evolution.

[Chadtheguru]

But don't the fish have to be underwater to breathe?

[Abramelin]

But don't the fish have to be underwater to breathe?

Lungs developed from a fishes' swimming bladder.

It happened once, it can happen again.

==

EDIT:

OK, me and my big mouth...

It's a bit different:

"Swim bladders are evolutionarily closely related (i.e. homologous) to lungs. It is believed that the first lungs, simple sacs connected to the gut that allowed the organism to gulp air under oxygen-poor conditions, evolved into the lungs of today's terrestrial vertebrates and some fish (e.g. lungfish, gar, and bichir) and into the swim bladders of the ray-finned fish.[4] In embryonal development, both lung and swim bladder originate as an outpocketing from the gut; in the case of swim bladders, this connection to the gut continues to exist as the pneumatic duct in the more "primitive" ray-finned fish, and is lost in some of the more derived teleost orders. There are no animals which have both lungs and a swim bladder."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swim_bladder

.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Abramelin

[Druidus-Logos]

But don't the fish have to be underwater to breathe?

They couldquite possibly evolve a new breathing apparatus.

I mentioned HUMID coastal areas. Perhaps as long as they keep flying, enough humid air could allow them to breathe. They'd need to constantly fly, and would probably look like fast moving hummingbirds.

Again, all just speculation.

[Abramelin]

They couldquite possibly evolve a new breathing apparatus.

I mentioned HUMID coastal areas. Perhaps as long as they keep flying, enough humid air could allow them to breathe. They'd need to constantly fly, and would probably look like fast moving hummingbirds.

Again, all just speculation.

Well, I can imagine that some changes in their swimming bladder could enable them to use it as sort of a lung.

The swim bladder, also known as the air bladder or gas bladder, is a crucial organ for many fish. In addition to helping fish adjust their density within the water, the swim bladder also enables certain fish to hear, make sounds and breathe. Problems with the swim bladder can be debilitating or even fatal.

Swim Bladder Development

•In young fish, the swim bladder is connected to the esophagus by a pneumatic duct. As the fish matures, this duct closes off, separating the swim bladder from the esophagus. (This is not the case in bowfins and lungfish. In these fish, the swim bladder remains connected for life.)

[zenfahr]

hey it has happend many times.... think about all the animals on earth... at some point, some fish started to walk on dry land. At some point those animals that walked learned to glide on the air. So these fish think that they are special, that they dont have to learn to walk first... psssf. some peoples kids.

[Wreck7]

Zebco will have to come out with new line of shotguns to fish with.

[J4yD0r]

Many things. Predators. Overfishing. Pollution in the ocean making those who remain in it cancerous and sickly. Resources out of the sea that are better than those within. Competition from jellyfish.

Seriously, tons of possible phenomenon could force this evolution.

It would have to be a phenomenon that occurs over a very extended period of time. Competition from Jellyfish and pollution are the only possibilities that I could see from what you suggested. I just can`t see that huge a rise in predatory marine life populations over such a wide area for that long as a viable way to force a change like that.

Overfishing doesn`t seem right either...I could see a looooot of fish getting pwned by birds if fish took to the air, and it doesn`t make sense for an animal to evolve so it can go from being over-hunted in one area to being over-hunted in another

[Druidus-Logos]

It would have to be a phenomenon that occurs over a very extended period of time. Competition from Jellyfish and pollution are the only possibilities that I could see from what you suggested. I just can`t see that huge a rise in predatory marine life populations over such a wide area for that long as a viable way to force a change like that.

Overfishing doesn`t seem right either...I could see a looooot of fish getting pwned by birds if fish took to the air, and it doesn`t make sense for an animal to evolve so it can go from being over-hunted in one area to being over-hunted in another

I know; you're quite right. I never said that current conditions or enviroments would cause this.

We ARE talking about potential futures right? I'm not saying it WILL happen, just that it could, and, IMO, it is likely.

BTW, it's not only my opinion. I recently looked up the idea and found that it was featured in a book and TV show on Discovery, called, I believe, "The Future is Wild". They depict coastal "flish", as they call them, and interior flish. A team of scientists who worked in relevant fields came up with the idea of this future for flying fish whe designing animals they thought both possible and probable to eventually evolve. I think that flish were 100 million years off. Is that enough time for the selection pressures to maybe allow such a change,

It would have to be a phenomenon that occurs over a very extended period of time. Competition from Jellyfish and pollution are the only possibilities that I could see from what you suggested. I just can`t see that huge a rise in predatory marine life populations over such a wide area for that long as a viable way to force a change like that.

Overfishing doesn`t seem right either...I could see a looooot of fish getting pwned by birds if fish took to the air, and it doesn`t make sense for an animal to evolve so it can go from being over-hunted in one area to being over-hunted in another

I know; you're quite right. I never said that current conditions or enviroments would cause this.

We ARE talking about potential futures right? I'm not saying it WILL happen, just that it could, and, IMO, it is likely.

BTW, it's not only my opinion. I recently looked up the idea and found that it was featured in a book and TV show on Discovery, called, I believe, "The Future is Wild". They depict coastal "flish", as they call them, and interior flish. A team of scientists who worked in relevant fields came up with the idea of this future for flying fish whe designing animals they thought both possible and probable to eventually evolve. I think that flish were 100 million years off. Is that enough time for the selection pressures to maybe allow such a change,

It would have to be a phenomenon that occurs over a very extended period of time. Competition from Jellyfish and pollution are the only possibilities that I could see from what you suggested. I just can`t see that huge a rise in predatory marine life populations over such a wide area for that long as a viable way to force a change like that.

Overfishing doesn`t seem right either...I could see a looooot of fish getting pwned by birds if fish took to the air, and it doesn`t make sense for an animal to evolve so it can go from being over-hunted in one area to being over-hunted in another

I know; you're quite right. I never said that current conditions or enviroments would cause this.

We ARE talking about potential futures right? I'm not saying it WILL happen, just that it could, and, IMO, it is likely.

BTW, it's not only my opinion. I recently looked up the idea and found that it was featured in a book and TV show on Discovery, called, I believe, "The Future is Wild". They depict coastal "flish", as they call them, and interior flish. A team of scientists who worked in relevant fields came up with the idea of this future for flying fish whe designing animals they thought both possible and probable to eventually evolve. I think that flish were 100 million years off. Is that enough time for the selection pressures to maybe allow such a change, J4yD0r?

Also, it should be noted that birds end up going almost entirely extinct in the air. I don't remember the reasons, but they were fairly good. Bats and flish are the successors. Some birds remain, especially in mountainous areas, and also ground birds, but ESPECIALLY sea birds. Gannets evolve into something called "gannet-whales" which are walrus-like (in shape and size if you blew walruses up about 4x) massive birds that live in the water and breed on land.

Don't underestimate the number of and the quality of the changes that can occur to animals over such LARGE periods of time. Massive and extensive changes to the enironment and its pressures would undoubtedly occur over such epic passages of time; this would undoubtedly massively and extensively alter the species living in it.

[J4yD0r]

Multi-post?

I know; you're quite right. I never said that current conditions or enviroments would cause this.

We ARE talking about potential futures right? I'm not saying it WILL happen, just that it could, and, IMO, it is likely.

This is all just speculation. I`m not saying it will happen either, it`s just that I think it`s un-likely.

BTW, it's not only my opinion. I recently looked up the idea and found that it was featured in a book and TV show on Discovery, called, I believe, "The Future is Wild". They depict coastal "flish", as they call them, and interior flish. A team of scientists who worked in relevant fields came up with the idea of this future for flying fish whe designing animals they thought both possible and probable to eventually evolve. I think that flish were 100 million years off. Is that enough time for the selection pressures to maybe allow such a change, J4yD0r?

Yes, obviously

The climate is changing faster than most think, and IMO there isn`t enough time for flying bird populations to decline as much as you`re suggesting before fish would have reason to take to the air.

Also keep in mind that evolution doesn`t necessarily take millions of years. I remember reading a National Geographic article about Charles Darwin a while back. In one part, it went on to describe observed evolutionary changes that occurred in certain types of Galapagos finches within only a few generations. These changes were caused by a sudden lack of the type of food the finches were feeding on, and caused them to evolve larger, more robust beaks so that they could get at the harder-to-crack nuts that weren`t in short supply. I`m not saying that flish will evolve THAT fast, but it doesn`t have to be hundreds of millions of years either.

Also, it should be noted that birds end up going almost entirely extinct in the air. I don't remember the reasons, but they were fairly good. Bats and flish are the successors. Some birds remain, especially in mountainous areas, and also ground birds, but ESPECIALLY sea birds. Gannets evolve into something called "gannet-whales" which are walrus-like (in shape and size if you blew walruses up about 4x) massive birds that live in the water and breed on land.

Don't underestimate the number of and the quality of the changes that can occur to animals over such LARGE periods of time. Massive and extensive changes to the enironment and its pressures would undoubtedly occur over such epic passages of time; this would undoubtedly massively and extensively alter the species living in it.

I`m not underestimating anything, nor am I denying the possibility that under certain circumstances what you`re saying could happen. I just have a different stance on the subject which is based on my interpretation of the information we`ve both been given.

Also, just to clear things up, I`m not argueing anything.

I`m actually quite enjoying this discussion

[Druidus-Logos]

Multi-post?

lol, evidently. I didn't do that, I don't know how it happened, lol.

This is all just speculation. I`m not saying it will happen either, it`s just that I think it`s un-likely.

Of course. But it's only unlikely because of current conditions. And they can change, violently and unpredictably. In reality, none of us are in any position to say what is evolutionarily unlikely, not really.

Yes, obviously

The climate is changing faster than most think, and IMO there isn`t enough time for flying bird populations to decline as much as you`re suggesting before fish would have reason to take to the air.

There's plenty of time. Birds are going to be some of the MOST affected of all types of animals. And there are a great many industrial threats to them, I just don't really want to get into them all. Consider the Alberta Oil Sands, if you need an example.

Besides, you also assume that flish couldn't evolve defense systems. Of course they could and would. Definately. Imagine if they developed poisons, and birds couldn't eat them. Your issues would be instantly solved.

Also keep in mind that evolution doesn`t necessarily take millions of years. I remember reading a National Geographic article about Charles Darwin a while back. In one part, it went on to describe observed evolutionary changes that occurred in certain types of Galapagos finches within only a few generations. These changes were caused by a sudden lack of the type of food the finches were feeding on, and caused them to evolve larger, more robust beaks so that they could get at the harder-to-crack nuts that weren`t in short supply. I`m not saying that flish will evolve THAT fast, but it doesn`t have to be hundreds of millions of years either.

Oh, I`m definately aware of that. Evolution is one of my favourite topics, and Darwin`s finches were an interest of mine when I was 10, lol. Great stuff. You know, my parrot, an African grey (Timneh subspecies), is named Darwin.

btw, Skinks recently evolved live birth incredibly rapidly, you might be interested.

I`m not underestimating anything, nor am I denying the possibility that under certain circumstances what you`re saying could happen. I just have a different stance on the subject which is based on my interpretation of the information we`ve both been given.

All I`m saying is that we really can`t say with any level of certainty what is or isn`t probable in this field. It can all be considered equally likely, because of the level of uncertainty, you know?

Also, just to clear things up, I`m not argueing anything.

I`m actually quite enjoying this discussion

Me too, I`m definately not trying to offend or insult you. All the differences we have are just expressions of the glory of sentience, in all the majesty of all our possible permutations.

[booNyzarC]

45 seconds? That's more hang time than MJ... have any NBA recruiters been by the aquarium?

[zven]

flying fish is what we have for lunch, dinner every other day..in 1990's we catch a 700 kios of flying fish near our town in bagac philippines, its a common source of income there.. but today the fish is rarely to be found due to .. i think over fishing.. by the way the there are many kinds of flying fish

[Venonat]

Incredible! Awesome thread, thanks!