'Islam Is Like a Drug'

[questionmark]

In a SPIEGEL interview, Egyptian-German political scientist Hamed Abdel-Samad talks about his childhood as the son of an imam in Egypt, why he thinks Islam is a danger to society and his theories about the inevitable decline of the Muslim world. Read more...

Edited September 18, 2010 by questionmark

[Beckys_Mom]

Taken from the article...

Abdel-Samad: He believes that Islam is gaining ground everywhere. I too am critical of many aspects of Islam. But I also see that it's on its way out. Islam doesn't have to be demonized, but it does need to be modernized from the ground up.

I totally agree here....it needs to seriously follow the times....I think those that follow Islam are stuck in ancient times....down to how they punish people for IE - adulty..they either stone to death or hang them.... totally OTT and barbaric.( to give one example)....

People say a lot about Christianity...well at least they are more modernized

Edited September 18, 2010 by Beckys_Mom

[questionmark]

Taken from the article...

I totally agree here....it needs to seriously follow the times....I think those that follow Islam are stuck in ancient times....down to how they punish people for IE - adulty..they either stone to death or hang them.... totally OTT and barbaric.( to give one example)....

People say a lot about Christianity...well at least they are more modernized

It should be, after all Christianism has been around 500 years longer.

[Beckys_Mom]

It should be, after all Christianism has been around 500 years longer.

Exactly... so it's high time they broke away from their dark ancient ways and begun to live in modern times....heck even if they marked themselves up to the 20th century would make a massive improvement ...let alone the 21st!! lol

[apriltricks]

Heres a question for the smartie pants' out thier. If god gave you a book, and you really believe this, would you start changing things? I'm not sure how you can tell a religion to get with the times, after all they truly believe that god gave them instruction, it may seem cruel and unusual but who are they to judge god? If god was all loving and all forgiving, then obviously he wouldn't give out cruel and unsual punishment. People should come to thier own conclusions, but the best anyone can do is talk to believers and get them to question, you can't tell them to get with the times.

-Trix

[Torgo]

All religions are 'like a drug'. They use fear and ingroup/outgroup dynamics, taking advantage of the tribalistic tendencies inside us, to deeply seat themselves in our psyches and make it very hard to consider the mere possibility that you might be wrong or that someone else isn't a thread to the world as you know it.

[Beckys_Mom]

Heres a question for the smartie pants' out thier. If god gave you a book, and you really believe this, would you start changing things? I'm not sure how you can tell a religion to get with the times, after all they truly believe that god gave them instruction, it may seem cruel and unusual but who are they to judge god? If god was all loving and all forgiving, then obviously he wouldn't give out cruel and unsual punishment. People should come to thier own conclusions, but the best anyone can do is talk to believers and get them to question, you can't tell them to get with the times.

-Trix

The book was written for ancient man..... it doesnt state ok any man that follows it must stick in that time zone and do not move with the times

[questionmark]

Heres a question for the smartie pants' out thier. If god gave you a book, and you really believe this, would you start changing things? I'm not sure how you can tell a religion to get with the times, after all they truly believe that god gave them instruction, it may seem cruel and unusual but who are they to judge god? If god was all loving and all forgiving, then obviously he wouldn't give out cruel and unsual punishment. People should come to thier own conclusions, but the best anyone can do is talk to believers and get them to question, you can't tell them to get with the times.

-Trix

The spirit of the book is more important than following the letter of it.

But following the letter requires no brain work, therefore preferred by those who cannot or will not think.

[Lucifer_Beast]

Taken from the article...

I totally agree here....it needs to seriously follow the times....I think those that follow Islam are stuck in ancient times....down to how they punish people for IE - adulty..they either stone to death or hang them.... totally OTT and barbaric.( to give one example)....

People say a lot about Christianity...well at least they are more modernized

i don't know which world you live in but there are some crazyy individuals who take the bible/quran too literally in both religions, but at the same time, there are also individuals IN BOTH RELIGIONS that have modernized and do not take the punishments and the holy book literal.

but to be honest, all religions are like a drug if taken in a high dosage

[The Silver Thong]

Religion dictates and so does any other addiction. Replace religion with bird watching and it might not be so bad lol oh wait, those bird aren't angels but just birds

[Maizer]

All religions are 'like a drug'. They use fear and ingroup/outgroup dynamics, taking advantage of the tribalistic tendencies inside us, to deeply seat themselves in our psyches and make it very hard to consider the mere possibility that you might be wrong or that someone else isn't a thread to the world as you know it.

Wow, I had no idea I was the victim of all you wrote.

You sure you aren't generalizing a bit here?

[Beckys_Mom]

i don't know which world you live in but there are some crazyy individuals who take the bible/quran too literally in both religions, but at the same time, there are also individuals IN BOTH RELIGIONS that have modernized and do not take the punishments and the holy book literal.

but to be honest, all religions are like a drug if taken in a high dosage

You must live in some other world... for it is fact and all can see that christianity is modernized.... they do not dress and do things like they once did in the OT... christians move with the times...

Islam doesnt seem to have moved at all... they stick with the ancient dress code and their ways of handling IE punishment for what we would call minor cases like IE adultry they still insist on stonning to death... <--- thats too much like the old testament...

[Lucifer_Beast]

You must live in some other world... for it is fact and all can see that christianity is modernized.... they do not dress and do things like they once did in the OT... christians move with the times...

Islam doesnt seem to have moved at all... they stick with the ancient dress code and their ways of handling IE punishment for what we would call minor cases like IE adultry they still insist on stonning to death... <--- thats too much like the old testament...

ONCE AGAIN DUDE WHAT WORLD DO U LIVE IN??

have u ever heard of christians in the southern u.s. where people hold poisonous snakes in their hand and start god's name and are led to believe that they are protected by miracles even though more than a dozen of individuals have died. have you heard of christian camps where the two genders are seprated in such extreme manners that they are not even allowed to interact with one another from a young age until they are married?

iam not saying ISLAM is perfect.. yes, they things you are describing are correct, there are muslims that take the quran too literal, i am admitting THAT, what iam saying is you are generalizing the entire religion by a few individuals you have seen in the media. there are NORMAL MUSLIMS out there who dress normal, who do not believe in stoning or death penalty etc... but they are not as popular because they have learned to MODERNIZE and interact just like alot of other christians out there.

you are generalizing an entire religion that holds more than 1 billion of the population of our planet but yet you are too blind to admit that every religion, INCLUDING CHRISTIANITY, is not perfect and there are individuals who still have not modernized as much. im not saying that you are wrong abt your description of muslims but saying that every muslim out there is not modernized is wrong. iam not saying every christian out there is a religious fanatic, neither should you generalize and stereotype.

[Mr Walker]

I watched a very interesting programme called "BAnning the burqua" On sbs television last night.

Opinions were even more heated than is usual on this programme.

However it is obvious that a number of modern young australian women are chosing to wear the burqua or equivalent headgear as a matter of asserting their individualism (this is a uniquely western pov)

One woman said that for her the burqua was a symbol of freedom. Wearing it she was free from other peoples judgements and expectations. Under it she was accountable only to herself.

I found that concept fascinating and with value, given western sexualisation of young girls, and the culturaa expectations placed on them to dress, look, and wear clothes/makeup etc with an emphasis in excentuating their sexuality.

Arguably, when western men/society expect western women to dress and look sexy /appeaing they are imposing expectations in just the same way as when islamic men/society expect women to drees modeslty andd to hide their appearance from men.

There was general agreement by all, including immans and islamic scholars, that islam requires modesty but allows a woman freedom to interpret modesty as she pleases. There is no law within islam which requires women to dress in a burqua etc although certain states may impose that requirement. Originally, only the prophet's wives were required to dress in this way. Other women then chose to imitate it as a mark of respect and "solidarity".

Then there is also a renaissance in islam, world wide. Rather than going backwards, it is undergoing a cultural/religious renewal and strengthening. As a consequence, second and third (and even seventh) generation young australian women are learning about muslim cultural traditions which their mothers put aside, and reafffirming their own religiousity through symbols like the burqua.

My point is that, in religious matters, nothing is ever as simple or one dimensional as people would like it to be.

In most of the western world there have been large numbers of islamic people for centuries. They tended to remain invisible, even marginalised in actual, or psychological, ghettos. Further more they were often "oppressed" in their own homelands by the cultural and religious values of colonial conquerors and occupiers. Like other groups, they are beginning to assert their right to an identity of their own.

This increased visibility makes them targets, and increases hostility by people who are innately racist or who see divisions ins ociety as exploitable for their own ends.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Mr Walker

[UltraThunderMan]

It seems to me that if you take things from a so-called holy book that you don't like, it nullifies the entire thing. How holy are the words of god if his followers can omit things they don't like? I do agree that Islam is heading for a downward spiral though. There seem to be alot of people who hate that "religion" nowadays.

[zednuts]

All religions are 'like a drug'. They use fear and ingroup/outgroup dynamics, taking advantage of the tribalistic tendencies inside us, to deeply seat themselves in our psyches and make it very hard to consider the mere possibility that you might be wrong or that someone else isn't a thread to the world as you know it.

Hi Torgo,

Eloquently put.

Karl Marx once said "religion is the opium of the people". Perhaps American religion should be labeled "the cool-aid of the people" .. it's sickly sweet, uncomplicated by reason and sometimes laced with the deadliest of poison.

zedNuts who was raised in christian a mind control cult.

[Beckys_Mom]

ONCE AGAIN DUDE WHAT WORLD DO U LIVE IN??

1st of all I'm NOT a freaking dude.....

2nd of all... I do not give a flying toss for your crappy lil moaning over christianity.... I stick firmly where I stand and will say it all again just cuz your.............................'.special'..... CHRISTIANITY IS MORE MODERNIZED THAN ISLAM EVER WILL OR COULD BE

Enough said DUDE!!

[The Word of Thoth]

1st of all I'm NOT a freaking dude.....

2nd of all... I do not give a flying toss for your crappy lil moaning over christianity.... I stick firmly where I stand and will say it all again just cuz your.............................'.special'..... CHRISTIANITY IS MORE MODERNIZED THAN ISLAM EVER WILL OR COULD BE

Enough said DUDE!!

WOW!!!!

Someone counters your argument with a bit of common sense and you go flyin off the rails!!!

You stick firmly to your standpoint becky's mUm, youll do just fine.....

[Beckys_Mom]

WOW!!!!

Someone counters your argument with a bit of common sense and you go flyin off the rails!!!

You stick firmly to your standpoint becky's mUm, youll do just fine.....

I cannot stand people yelling crap at me for my own popinion... scroll back... he flies on YELLING at me calling me a dude and you think I should just sit here and go - aww aint it just dandy?

You call yelling at me countering my arguement? really? gee there was me thinking I gave my own opinions from the start...

Here's a tip before you go jumping in to rabbit at anyone the sec you see a hint of yelling.... try scrolling and actually reading all.... <-- ya think that just might work ??

EDIT - hold up a sec...........I scrolled to notice you didn't bother your backside to give your own opinions on the OP... so tell me.. do you normally go looking for the slightest arguement between others rather than post up your own opinions on topics??

Edited September 29, 2010 by Beckys_Mom

[Goblin-5]

Kind of touchy arent you? I think that you did indeed oversimplify Islam as practiced by the majority of the worlds Muslims. You took the most extreme sects practices and use them as your benchmark. FYI, the vast majority of Muslims do not commit honour killings, dont compel the wearing of veils or burkas etc, dont have multiple wives and, believe it or not, even wear clothes appropriate to the society and country they live in. If someone were to take the extreme evangelical American churches (some of which advocate the separation of races, death for gays etc for example) or on the other extreme the Amish who live according to the ancient ways as prime examples of Christianity and how they are not modern would you agree that that was a valid POV?

All religions have their extreme (some would say "true") believers who practice the laws as writen withot interpretation or updating, and of course all religions believe that theirs is the only true faith. As someone once said, "thank God I am an aetheist" cause you have to either laugh at the religous divide or cry for humankind

I cannot stand people yelling crap at me for my own popinion... scroll back... he flies on YELLING at me calling me a dude and you think I should just sit here and go - aww aint it just dandy?

You call yelling at me countering my arguement? really? gee there was me thinking I gave my own opinions from the start...

Here's a tip before you go jumping in to rabbit at anyone the sec you see a hint of yelling.... try scrolling and actually reading all.... <-- ya think that just might work ??

EDIT - hold up a sec...........I scrolled to notice you didn't bother your backside to give your own opinions on the OP... so tell me.. do you normally go looking for the slightest arguement between others rather than post up your own opinions on topics??

Edited September 29, 2010 by Goblin-5

[Beckys_Mom]

Kind of touchy arent you?

Only when I am being yelled at and called a dude,..... yea I get touchy...

You took the most extreme sects practices and use them as your benchmark

You are making this out a lot worse than I have... I used two examples... one was dress code and the other was punishment.... <-- and you make it out as those using two examples this is such a bad thing on my part...

FYI, the vast majority of Muslims do not commit honour killings, dont compel the wearing of veils or burkas etc,

FYI I did not claim the VAST MAJORITY of muslims did so... and further more.. you should at least read what I actually wrote... instead of adding in your own extended version... I mean why on earth did you just claim I now have spoken for the vast number of muslims?? where did you get this from??

my two comments on dress code and punishment.. were in general... I did not pick out different sects of the islamic world... so please if you wish to complain further... atl east speak about what I have actually written..and less of your exaggerating assumtions ....

When I said in general...I base it on what I have seen.. and heard on the news...the punishment on a womans adultry was on Sky News a couple of weeks ago..( reported to have her stonned to death, this was the news report)... it caused an outrage.. and said to be a common punishment over in Iraq..........so sue me for making a couple of points...look into it yourself

As for muslims not wearing their traditional clothing... the only ones I have not seen dressed like that are those that live in the UK...when I gave my opinions they were just that my own opinions based on what I have come to notice ....

Amish who live according to the ancient ways as prime examples of Christianity and how they are not modern would you agree that that was a valid POV?

The Amish are just a small minority of christianity... when I said - Christianity is more modernized.. well for the size of that religion as a whole...casting aside the minorities....a huge part of christianity are in fact modernized... even in my own country...

If you still have more complaints on me thinking that Islam in general are not as modern as the likes of Christianity..go ahead and complain about my own personal opinions... but leave out your exaggerating comments you tos in with it...as I never mentioned once about the vast number of muslims and somehow you managed to toss it in against me for a FYI speech........... thanks all the same

Edited September 29, 2010 by Beckys_Mom

[+Sherapy]

All religions are 'like a drug'. They use fear and ingroup/outgroup dynamics, taking advantage of the tribalistic tendencies inside us, to deeply seat themselves in our psyches and make it very hard to consider the mere possibility that you might be wrong or that someone else isn't a thread to the world as you know it.

I think it's more appropriate to say some religions can be like a drug; Fundamentalism for instance.

I think the poison/drug is in suspending critical analysis and seeing it as noble. The moment a person actually applies the skill critical awareness they themselves self correct and go from there.

That takes care of that.

The good news is that 5 or so years ago, main stream general education has now placed a heavy emphasis on critical thinking as a basic skill taught along side reading, writing, and arithmetic.

Children will be able to tell the difference between fact and fiction by kindergarten even if they don't get it at home; as well as read and do arithmetic.

So the fringe/cult like groups that tout faith as a viable way to arrive at conclusions by default will not survive. IMO

[Marcus Aurelius]

I totally agree here....it needs to seriously follow the times....I think those that follow Islam are stuck in ancient times....down to how they punish people for IE - adulty..they either stone to death or hang them.... totally OTT and barbaric.( to give one example)....

Maybe it is. Nonetheless, that is coming from a WESTERN standpoint and bias. Most Muslims are not going to agree with that statement, in fact, a good many of them are fully aware of our western modernism....and they resent it.

A Muslim practices his faith to the letter. You don't change to fit the times, you change the times to fit the belief. You really can't even accurately compare Islam and Christianity in terms of practice. They are wholly different, right or wrong.

[Beckys_Mom]

Maybe it is. Nonetheless, that is coming from a WESTERN standpoint and bias. Most Muslims are not going to agree with that statement, in fact, a good many of them are fully aware of our western modernism....and they resent it.

Well I wouldn't know what most muslims in the world would agree or even disagree with...I based my own opinions on the OP article the muslim that broke away from Islam, in the OP he stated it was not modernized.. ...news reporrts and religious documentaries....I was not speaking about every last one of them.... just in general from what I came to observe ...hence why I state they were just my own opinions