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ExpandMyMind

Two Israeli troops guilty of using human

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danielost

Hats off to the Israeli military, first, for finally investigating actions of this nature

http://www.btselem.org/English/Publications/Summaries/201009_Void_of_Responsibility.asp

And second, for actually convicting the soldiers. Though I'm not sure what sort of sentence they will get or why their names have not been released.

Still, it seems the Goldstone Report and human rights organisations have a big part to play in this conviction.

these men were arrested about 2 hours after they did this. just took this long for it to go to court.

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ExpandMyMind

We could take away Israel's guns, tanks and planes by not sending them the pathetic 2 billion dollars a year in military “aid”? Israel's GDP is 200 billion and their military expenditures are 10 billion. You think 2 billion dollars (which probably do more good for us than for Israel, by the way) are somehow single-handedly responsible for keeping Israel armed? Even if we were single-handedly responsible for arming Israel, free of charge, you don't think they could get their weapons from someone else?

Feel free to contact your local representative in the UK to request cutting off all ties with Israel, Expand. The overwhelming majority of Americans, on the other hand, would rather keep Israel as an ally. :tu:

They don't need my petition. Britain is headed down that road it seems - it'll join the countries that have already decided to boycott Israel.

You neglect to consider the most important part of my post. Taking away the get out of jail card would see to it that Israel could be sanctioned, embargoed and generally punished - at long last - for its crimes. See how long they continue after that...

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Mr.United_Nations

We could take away Israel's guns, tanks and planes by not sending them the pathetic 2 billion dollars a year in military “aid”? Israel's GDP is 200 billion and their military expenditures are 10 billion. You think 2 billion dollars (which probably do more good for us than for Israel, by the way) are somehow single-handedly responsible for keeping Israel armed? Even if we were single-handedly responsible for arming Israel, free of charge, you don't think they could get their weapons from someone else?

Feel free to contact your local representative in the UK to request cutting off all ties with Israel, Expand. The overwhelming majority of Americans, on the other hand, would rather keep Israel as an ally. :tu:

I wonder why that is :ph34r::ph34r:

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Pseudo Intellectual

They don't need my petition. Britain is headed down that road it seems - it'll join the countries that have already decided to boycott Israel.

You neglect to consider the most important part of my post. Taking away the get out of jail card would see to it that Israel could be sanctioned, embargoed and generally punished - at long last - for its crimes. See how long they continue after that...

Do you also support “sanction[ing], embargo[ing] and generally punish[ing]” Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Russia, Iran, the PA, Syria, and other countries that violate their people's rights, such as, say, certain countries that jail people for not having health insurance or being caught homeschooling their children (Germany comes to mind)?

I wonder why that is :ph34r::ph34r:

Obviously because the Jews Zionists “neocons” control the government and media, brainwashing the people into supporting their Israeli masters.

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Mr.United_Nations

Do you also support “sanction[ing], embargo[ing] and generally punish[ing]” Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Russia, Iran, the PA, Syria, and other countries that violate their people's rights, such as, say, certain countries that jail people for not having health insurance or being caught homeschooling their children (Germany comes to mind)?

Obviously because the Jews Zionists “neocons” control the government and media, brainwashing the people into supporting their Israeli masters.

Well one thing problem thier. Please sanction a weapon embargo on Chavez he is an idiot and a donkey :angry::lol:

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Knight Of Shadows

noticed when supporters of israel get cornered and under heat

they shift the topic on other nations mistakes or wrongdoing ?

very smart :D

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ExpandMyMind

Do you also support “sanction[ing], embargo[ing] and generally punish[ing]” Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Russia, Iran, the PA, Syria, and other countries that violate their people's rights, such as, say, certain countries that jail people for not having health insurance or being caught homeschooling their children (Germany comes to mind)?

You always have to look through the narrowest lens to reply to me Pseudo. How many UN resolutions have the countries you have mentioned ignored? How many countries have the countries you've mentioned attacked, in fact?

I think you'll find Israel is the only one (outside of the top 5) who can get away with ignoring resolutions. Which, incidentally, is why they receive so much attention. Any other country does get sanctioned and embargoed.

Cue, the UN is controlled by Mulsims conspiracy theory...

****ing Nicaragua? You've got some balls sticking them in there and not putting in the country responsible for the sorry state they're in - the US. As well as interfering overthrowing every democratic regime they've had, to install your own dictator, your country practically carpet bombed them back into the stone age, killing tens of thousands. If it wasn't for your own veto, you would have had a President (Raegan or Bush it was.. Bah, they're both the same anyways) up at the Hague on war crimes! That would have been some sweet justice.

And to answer your question: yes I do support such actions being taken against any country that warrants it. But you seem to forget that the UN, not only has a massively difficult time operating inside countries and therefore can't always gather the evidence needed, but also was not primarily set up to settle internal disputes. You seem to have forgotten that there is an 'inter' before the national.

The UN was founded in 1945 after World War II to replace the League of Nations, to stop wars between countries, and to provide a platform for dialogue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations

How many UN resolutions towards Israel were related to their own population? Oh that's right, they're all directed towards Israel for crimes against other countries and peoples.

Edited by expandmymind

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Pseudo Intellectual

Suddenly you're all about UN resolutions? :w00t: How quickly you forget. Need I remind you of the little discussion we had a few days ago about UN resolutions? I thought the UN's opinion on things was irrelevant? I mean, if a country does something bad, they did something bad, regardless of whether the UN admits it or not... right?

Funny how and your ilk focus on Israel when there are countless countries who've done far worse things. Sure makes one wonder what's so special about the Jewish State...

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ExpandMyMind

Suddenly you're all about UN resolutions? :w00t: How quickly you forget. Need I remind you of the little discussion we had a few days ago about UN resolutions? I thought the UN's opinion on things was irrelevant? I mean, if a country does something bad, they did something bad, regardless of whether the UN admits it or not... right?

Funny how and your ilk focus on Israel when there are countless countries who've done far worse things. Sure makes one wonder what's so special about the Jewish State...

How foolish. You twisted my meaning in another thread then have the cheek to bring it up here?

I stated, that I would go along with ANY UN decision, as long as the culprits actually broke international law. But this is how you 'debate'. Is it not enough that I've been embarrassing you for over a year now?

Jesus, Pseudo, Israel bombed both Iraq and Syria. How many countries do you know that can just do that and get away with it? Even the US and Britain had to work like snow dogs to get permission to invade Iraq and Afghanistan (both which were technically illegal in the end up, but at least they went through the process). Israel just send in the fighter jets TO BOMB ANOTHER COUNTRY ... and then the US blocks resolutions!

And you wonder why they're 'singled out'? We must be living in parallel universes.

Edited by expandmymind

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Mr.United_Nations

How foolish. You twisted my meaning in another thread then have the cheek to bring it up here?

I stated, that I would go along with ANY UN decision, as long as the culprits actually broke international law. But this is how you 'debate'. Is it not enough that I've been embarrassing you for over a year now?

Jesus, Pseudo, Israel bombed both Iraq and Syria. How many countries do you know that can just do that and get away with it? Even the US and Britain had to work like snow dogs to get permission to invade Iraq and Afghanistan (both which were technically illegal in the end up, but at least they went through the process). Israel just send in the fighter jets TO BOMB ANOTHER COUNTRY ... and then the US blocks resolutions!

And you wonder why they're 'singled out'? We must be living in parallel universes.

I love it when the Americans come calling..again haha

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Pseudo Intellectual

How foolish. You twisted my meaning in another thread then have the cheek to bring it up here?

I stated, that I would go along with ANY UN decision, as long as the culprits actually broke international law. But this is how you 'debate'. Is it not enough that I've been embarrassing you for over a year now?

Jesus, Pseudo, Israel bombed both Iraq and Syria. How many countries do you know that can just do that and get away with it? Even the US and Britain had to work like snow dogs to get permission to invade Iraq and Afghanistan (both which were technically illegal in the end up, but at least they went through the process). Israel just send in the fighter jets TO BOMB ANOTHER COUNTRY ... and then the US blocks resolutions!

And you wonder why they're 'singled out'? We must be living in parallel universes.

May I ask, how many resolutions have the Security and Human Rights councils passed or tried (say, was vetoed by the US) to pass condemning Cuba, Venezuela, Syria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Russia, Bahrain, China, Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan, and Libya, compared to Israel?

Who do you think you're fooling? The Security and Human Rights councils are made up of the scum of the Earth. Do you honestly expect any good, sane person to care what “the UN” has to say about anything?

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danielost

How foolish. You twisted my meaning in another thread then have the cheek to bring it up here?

I stated, that I would go along with ANY UN decision, as long as the culprits actually broke international law. But this is how you 'debate'. Is it not enough that I've been embarrassing you for over a year now?

Jesus, Pseudo, Israel bombed both Iraq and Syria. How many countries do you know that can just do that and get away with it? Even the US and Britain had to work like snow dogs to get permission to invade Iraq and Afghanistan (both which were technically illegal in the end up, but at least they went through the process). Israel just send in the fighter jets TO BOMB ANOTHER COUNTRY ... and then the US blocks resolutions!

And you wonder why they're 'singled out'? We must be living in parallel universes.

wait i thought our wars in iraq and afghan were illegal.

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ExpandMyMind

wait i thought our wars in iraq and afghan were illegal.

Yes. You should really read the posts you quote - I mentioned that in the very post you have quoted... :blink:

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ExpandMyMind

May I ask, how many resolutions have the Security and Human Rights councils passed or tried (say, was vetoed by the US) to pass condemning Cuba, Venezuela, Syria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Russia, Bahrain, China, Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan, and Libya, compared to Israel?

Who do you think you're fooling? The Security and Human Rights councils are made up of the scum of the Earth. Do you honestly expect any good, sane person to care what “the UN” has to say about anything?

How many of those countries are occupying and suppressing another nation? How many of those countries have attacked sovereign soil of another? (Iraq, with the support of the US, surprise-surprise).

Regardless of what the UNHRC may or may not be (in reference to bias), Israel still defied international laws. Trying to deflect criticism does not take anything away from this fact. And, as I have mentioned to you many times before, other countries when they are targeted by the UN, are actually punished - Israel get off Scot-free!

Carry on.

Edited by expandmymind

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Br Cornelius

May I ask, how many resolutions have the Security and Human Rights councils passed or tried (say, was vetoed by the US) to pass condemning Cuba, Venezuela, Syria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Russia, Bahrain, China, Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan, and Libya, compared to Israel?

Who do you think you're fooling? The Security and Human Rights councils are made up of the scum of the Earth. Do you honestly expect any good, sane person to care what “the UN” has to say about anything?

America obviously thinks its above such considerations as International Law and the opinion of fellow nations. Last time I looked America was still killing criminals which doesn't reflect well on its human rights record, need I also remind you of Guantanamo bay. Before you start throwing around mud you had better make sure your not up to your neck in it yourself.

It is more than unfortunate what certain Governments perpetrate on their own citizens, but enacting crimes on another nations citizens is beyond the pale. Israel and America seem to be very good at it. All under the banner of Democracy and the good old American way.

Frankly you make me sick with your holier than though attitude.

Br Cornelius

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Pseudo Intellectual

How many of those countries are occupying and suppressing another nation? How many of those countries have attacked sovereign soil of another? (Iraq, with the support of the US, surprise-surprise).

Regardless of what the UNHRC may or may not be (in reference to bias), Israel still defied international laws. Trying to deflect criticism does not take anything away from this fact. And, as I have mentioned to you many times before, other countries when they are targeted by the UN, are actually punished - Israel get off Scot-free!

Carry on.

What does attacking another nation have to do with anything? For instance, is genocide within one's country (an “internal” matter) not against international law? But okay. How many times has the UN condemned Venezuela (which supports FARC, a terrorist group in Colombia, a sovereign nation)?

America obviously thinks its above such considerations as International Law and the opinion of fellow nations. Last time I looked America was still killing criminals which doesn't reflect well on its human rights record, need I also remind you of Guantanamo bay. Before you start throwing around mud you had better make sure your not up to your neck in it yourself.

It is more than unfortunate what certain Governments perpetrate on their own citizens, but enacting crimes on another nations citizens is beyond the pale. Israel and America seem to be very good at it. All under the banner of Democracy and the good old American way.

Frankly you make me sick with your holier than though attitude.

Br Cornelius

Having a military base (Gitmo) and executing criminals are violations of human rights? :blink: Dear God, even the pettiest things America does are illegal and evil.

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danielost

Yes. You should really read the posts you quote - I mentioned that in the very post you have quoted... :blink:

but if we got permission from the un then their not illegal.

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danielost

America obviously thinks its above such considerations as International Law and the opinion of fellow nations. Last time I looked America was still killing criminals which doesn't reflect well on its human rights record, need I also remind you of Guantanamo bay. Before you start throwing around mud you had better make sure your not up to your neck in it yourself.

It is more than unfortunate what certain Governments perpetrate on their own citizens, but enacting crimes on another nations citizens is beyond the pale. Israel and America seem to be very good at it. All under the banner of Democracy and the good old American way.

Frankly you make me sick with your holier than though attitude.

Br Cornelius

i will remind you that the muslims at guantanamo were complaining about people eating ham sandwiches and being guarded by females. these were the some of the so called tortures they claimed. the other one we use on our own marines for training purposes.

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ExpandMyMind

What does attacking another nation have to do with anything? For instance, is genocide within one's country (an “internal” matter) not against international law? But okay. How many times has the UN condemned Venezuela (which supports FARC, a terrorist group in Colombia, a sovereign nation)?

Having a military base (Gitmo) and executing criminals are violations of human rights? :blink: Dear God, even the pettiest things America does are illegal and evil.

Yeah, Venezuela fund a group that operates inside their own country... :no:

Other than the US Sponsored Dictatorship of Columbia, no one has claimed this. It is a truly baseless claim.

You speak of genocide inside one's own country. Why don't you type Uganda, South Africa (not genocide, but they were severely reprimanded by the UN), or better yet, Rwanda into Google.

And again, none of this escapes the fact that Israel do still break international law, with extreme regularity.

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Br Cornelius

i will remind you that the muslims at guantanamo were complaining about people eating ham sandwiches and being guarded by females. these were the some of the so called tortures they claimed. the other one we use on our own marines for training purposes.

A pathetic defense of the multiple crimes committed against the inmates. The very place was illegal. Extra judicial trials. Of course then there are the well documented examples of "extra rendition" where America seized foreign citizens and sent them off to friendly countries to have the nastier forms of torture interrogation carried out for them.

Having a military base (Gitmo) and executing criminals are violations of human rights? :blink: Dear God, even the pettiest things America does are illegal and evil.

It seems that its only the barbaric breakers of human rights that you so roundly condemn that still practice execution as an acceptable form of punishment. In the Civilized world it has been removed as an acceptable punishment. Good company that America keeps :tu:

All of this is immaterial really as its just a distraction from the point that Israel repeatedly flouts International Law, because America allows them to. America only seems to express an interest in International Law when it serves their own international interests.

You see the world is very cynical of Americas self appointed mantle of Policeman of the world and upholder of international standards.

If you want to be seen as the good guy - then be good.

From all this you may believe that I am anti-American, but you would be wrong. I am ant-hypocrisy. I hate seeing people accusing their neighbours of crimes, when the accuser has committed as many if not more crimes themselves. A bit of honesty is what I want to see. Self rightous indignation doesn't look good on an a country who has invaded another sovereign country and killed at least half a million people as a result - and for the blatantly obvious reason that they have a resource which you want. HONESTY HONESTY HONESTY - get it.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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Mr.United_Nations

Ok How many countries has America attacked over the past 60 years? And how man countries have Palestine attacked in the past 60 years?

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Pseudo Intellectual

Yeah, Venezuela fund a group that operates inside their own country... :no:

Other than the US Sponsored Dictatorship of Columbia, no one has claimed this. It is a truly baseless claim.

You speak of genocide inside one's own country. Why don't you type Uganda, South Africa (not genocide, but they were severely reprimanded by the UN), or better yet, Rwanda into Google.

And again, none of this escapes the fact that Israel do still break international law, with extreme regularity.

Is that your answer to my question?

It seems that its only the barbaric breakers of human rights that you so roundly condemn that still practice execution as an acceptable form of punishment. In the Civilized world it has been removed as an acceptable punishment. Good company that America keeps :tu:

All of this is immaterial really as its just a distraction from the point that Israel repeatedly flouts International Law, because America allows them to. America only seems to express an interest in International Law when it serves their own international interests.

You see the world is very cynical of Americas self appointed mantle of Policeman of the world and upholder of international standards.

If you want to be seen as the good guy - then be good.

From all this you may believe that I am anti-American, but you would be wrong. I am ant-hypocrisy. I hate seeing people accusing their neighbours of crimes, when the accuser has committed as many if not more crimes themselves. A bit of honesty is what I want to see. Self rightous indignation doesn't look good on an a country who has invaded another sovereign country and killed at least half a million people as a result - and for the blatantly obvious reason that they have a resource which you want. HONESTY HONESTY HONESTY - get it.

Br Cornelius

Okay, buddy... :blink:

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Knight Of Shadows

it's ok he's just under shock he'll bounce back with alot of

topic shifting replies once he got it all :D

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Mr.United_Nations

i think he admits defeat he aint been online sinse this morning lol

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Abramelin

When was the last time the organisations behind Hezbollah and Hamas ever accused their soldiers for using humans as shield?

They always operate from civil areas, so when Israel attacks them, always civilians will be killed.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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