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God isn't dead – he has just turned green


Still Waters

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The young don't need religion, as the environment gives them all the certainty they need, says Robert Colvile.

First, the good news: Richard Dawkins's campaign to turn Britain's children against organised religion seems to have failed. Unfortunately, it hasn't done so because of the depth of Christian belief in this country, but because kids, by and large, can't be bothered with religion at all.

According to The Faith of Generation Y, a study of 300 people born after 1982 who have been involved in the Church's youth and community projects, hostility towards Christianity has faded into brute indifference. True, only 12 per cent denied the existence of a higher power, while 23 per cent were relatively traditional believers. But by far the most popular answer, collecting approximately 43 per cent of the vote, essentially amounted to "Dunno, really".

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I do not know what two of the following things are more damaging to children today, religion, or modern mindless culture, such as Britain's Got talent and Big Brother type TV, Chav culture, and idiotic celebrity magazines etc. What is wrong with the opposite to both of them brain destroying things? Spirituality and actually thinking?

Edited by Faeden
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I do not know what two of the following things are more damaging to children today, religion, or modern mindless culture, such as Britain's Got talent and Big Brother type TV, Chav culture, and idiotic celebrity magazines etc. What is wrong with the opposite to both of them brain destroying things? Spirituality and actually thinking?

All learning begins in the home, in essence this environment is the child's first teacher. Where we could apply some standards is on the quality of the parenting. IMO

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If a trend emerges where people find greater meaning in life than in religion, so be it. To chastise children for their indifference is only an evidence that the pollsters didn't know kids. Part of the wonder of youth is to find little importance in the matters that most concern adults. I distinctly remember thinking as a child that I never wanted to be an adult and suffer the problems I witnessed with my parents. I did not particularly look forward to going to mass on Sunday instead of playing baseball with my friends. We cannot evaluate them for their opinions as kids, but only kick start our memories and accept them as they are.

It would be prudent to remember that a diminished number of religious people does not mean a greater number of godless people as some people like to claim.

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GREAT! This is good news. The more agnostics, the better.

:tu:

Again, I am a born again agnostic.

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Richard Dawkins has issues.

Kids can tell what sort of person someone is and they can see he has issues.

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Richard Dawkins has issues.

Kids can tell what sort of person someone is and they can see he has issues.

Can you explain this please .

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Richard Dawkins has issues.

Kids can tell what sort of person someone is and they can see he has issues.

I think you have issues. Such personal diagnostics are useless, friend.

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Can you explain this please .

She intuitively feels that Dawkins is a bad/immoral/unethical person, or at least prone to giving a lot of misinformtion. It's probably an unsupportable hunch. :P

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All learning begins in the home, in essence this environment is the child's first teacher. Where we could apply some standards is on the quality of the parenting. IMO

Yes all learning starts at the home, obviously, well actually I believe simple learning starts in the womb, but that is another discussion. I was talking about religion, and many of the cultures kids idolize today, to me any of them can not be good for a child's development to get the most out of their life.But I suppose it someone is happy with these things who am I to argue, I just personally find it a waist of a brain.

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Yes all learning starts at the home, obviously, well actually I believe simple learning starts in the womb, but that is another discussion. I was talking about religion, and many of the cultures kids idolize today, to me any of them can not be good for a child's development to get the most out of their life.But I suppose it someone is happy with these things who am I to argue, I just personally find it a waist of a brain.

Fae, I do not disagree with you. I am interested in your thoughts on this.

As you seem to be saying, indoctrination into a divisive/one truth only option would be counter productive as a staple for parenting, if you are seeking a cooperative- unity producing- mindset, that is.

I'd say 90 percent of parents -can't- get beyond a myopic view in their own lives; let alone be able to teach anyone else how to fend/stand for themselves in the bigger picture.

Edited by Sherizzle
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Fae, I do not disagree with you. I am interested in your thoughts on this.

As you seem to be saying, indoctrination into a divisive/one truth only option would be counter productive as a staple for parenting, if you are seeking a cooperative- unity producing- mindset, that is.

I'd say 90 percent of parents -can't- get beyond a myopic view in their own lives; let alone be able to teach anyone else how to fend/stand for themselves in the bigger picture.

I am saying that yes, as it limits the child's potential. For instance, theological thoughts (whether you believe in God or not) are good for the mind, in my view, but only if its not bound by dogma, which of course many of the religious people are.

I would like to teach my child, or should I say encourage my child to question everything, and come to his or her own conclusion, I would want them to do it without hindrances such as dogma or fear of what others might think. That is on the religious side of it. The more physical side, things of vanity, like caring what they are wearing because of celebrity magazines, or wanting to be like their thug like idiotic band member heros, or sitting mindlessly learning nothing in front of a TV screen watching American Idol etc, the physical latter I think is worse. I can not stand religion, but at least in religion they are actually thinking in a questioned way, even if that thinking is limited to the bounds of its authority.

You are quite right however that some parents are not even aware of their own intellectual laziness, that does not allow them to achieve their own possible maximum ability.

I believe most people on the planet are capable of reaching a good intelligent level of consciousness, its just that most people are unaware, because of a number of things, such as fear, being brought up by others who also do not know this, and by being preoccupied by pointless affairs, like who will win in Pop Idol, or Big Brother, who is screwing who in the soap opera of the moment. Most people are wasting their brains and minds. Tell a kid so they believe it often enough that they can achieve anything in life with listening, observing and asking questions without fear, and I believe their is a good chance they will have a satisfying life, don't tell a kid anything like that and they have a less chance of being satisfied in later life, which I believe causes many of the social problems we see today, such as with alcoholism, crime etc.

We ourself by our own mental attitude in what we believe we can or cant do, determines if we either help or hinder our chances of success.

I would like to add that I would not disallow my kid to watch mindless things for enjoyment, but I would not let that be the majority of their influences, as you have to allow a child to be a child also. But in today's world, in the west anyway, many kids are being taught social skills and behaviour from TV and computers, and not getting vital communicative lessons from parents paying them attention, and they are not actually getting out there with other humans and socializing, which is fundamental to a kids growth as a human being.

Edited by Faeden
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I am saying that yes, as it limits the child's potential. For instance, theological thoughts (whether you believe in God or not) are good for the mind, in my view, but only if its not bound by dogma, which of course many of the religious people are.

I would like to teach my child, or should I say encourage my child to question everything, and come to his or her own conclusion, I would want them to do it without hindrances such as dogma or fear of what others might think. That is on the religious side of it. The more physical side, things of vanity, like caring what they are wearing because of celebrity magazines, or wanting to be like their thug like idiotic band member heros, or sitting mindlessly learning nothing in front of a TV screen watching American Idol etc, the physical latter I think is worse. I can not stand religion, but at least in religion they are actually thinking in a questioned way, even if that thinking is limited to the bounds of its authority.

You are quite right however that some parents are not even aware of their own intellectual laziness, that does not allow them to achieve their own possible maximum ability.

I believe most people on the planet are capable of reaching a good intelligent level of consciousness, its just that most people are unaware, because of a number of things, such as fear, being brought up by others who also do not know this, and by being preoccupied by pointless affairs, like who will win in Pop Idol, or Big Brother, who is screwing who in the soap opera of the moment. Most people are wasting their brains and minds. Tell a kid so they believe it often enough that they can achieve anything in life with listening, observing and asking questions without fear, and I believe their is a good chance they will have a satisfying life, don't tell a kid anything like that and they have a less chance of being satisfied in later life, which I believe causes many of the social problems we see today, such as with alcoholism, crime etc.

We ourself by our own mental attitude in what we believe we can or cant do, determines if we either help or hinder our chances of success.

I would like to add that I would not disallow my kid to watch mindless things for enjoyment, but I would not let that be the majority of their influences, as you have to allow a child to be a child also. But in today's world, in the west anyway, many kids are being taught social skills and behaviour from TV and computers, and not getting vital communicative lessons from parents paying them attention, and they are not actually getting out there with other humans and socializing, which is fundamental to a kids growth as a human being.

I would agree with you , these are many of the attributes that make great parents. E.g. critical thinking, a strong sense of self, creating an environment that is conducive to a child's eventual success in all areas of life. Actually having parents that talk with them (consider their pov and voice in the matters that concern them) instead of at them. Allowing room for mistakes, because it's in their mistakes they learn so much. Being an advocate for your child especially in their darkest moments .

I don't know if you have kids yet, but I for one hope one day you do., our world can use good role models such as yourself , in this area of life.

Kudo's on everything you said. :tu:

Edited by Sherizzle
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I would agree with you , these are many of the attributes that make great parents. E.g. critical thinking, a strong sense of self, creating an environment that is conducive to a child's eventual success in all areas of life. Actually having parents that talk with them (consider their pov and voice in the matters that concern them) instead of at them. Allowing room for mistakes, because it's in their mistakes they learn so much. Being an advocate for your child especially in their darkest moments .

I don't know if you have kids yet, but I for one hope one day you do., our world can use good role models such as yourself , in this area of life.

Kudo's on everything you said. :tu:

Thank you mate. I actually found out only 2 weeks ago that I am going to be a father for the first time. I know I have lots of hard things to learn coming up, but like you say, the biggest lessons come from our mistakes, which I am sure I am going to make many.

I rant and rave about what I think is a good way to bring up a child, but I am fully aware its not going to be as easy as that. I will do my absolute best though.

Edited by Faeden
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Thank you mate. I actually found out only 2 weeks ago that I am going to be a father for the first time. I know I have lots of hard things to learn coming up, but like you say, the biggest lessons come from our mistakes, which I am sure I am going to make many.

I rant and rave about what I think is a good way to bring up a child, but I am fully aware its not going to be as easy as that. I will do my absolute best though.

Congratulations!

As a mom of 3 boys (24,17,13)

The hard part of parenting has been the times I have not tried or applied what I've gained from my mistakes.

Unconditional in reality , are really big shoes to fill ( this is harder then one thinks) few parents ever even get into the shoes to begin with.

Edited by Sherizzle
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Congratulations!

As a mom of 3 boys (24,17,13)

The hard part of parenting has been the times I have not tried or applied what I've gained from my mistakes.

Unconditional in reality , are really big shoes to fill ( this is harder then one thinks) few parents ever even get into the shoes to begin with.

Diogenes struck the father when the son said a swear word.

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Diogenes struck the father when the son said a swear word.

Exactly doc, so few parents understand how much the child is a mimic.

I am always amazed at the ignorant parent that says, "I just don't know how Johnny go that way, I sure didn't teach him that." :blink:

I don't often hear to of many parents who are accountable for their part in the things that they have had a huge part in creating.

Edited by Sherizzle
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Sorry, but to quote the article "a study of 300 people born after 1982"... what exactly is that supposed to tell us about anything? I may as well ask the attendees at my local student night a theosophical question for all it will tell us about the beliefs of 'youth of today'.

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Thank you mate. I actually found out only 2 weeks ago that I am going to be a father for the first time.

WOW you are going to be a new father........ well let me tell you something... when you get to be there for the birth, you will feel a sudden wave of emotions come over you and the tears will flood down your face... and those are tears of joy.........ohh yes lol................. I told myself that when I give birth I WONT cry... I said I don't get why the parents cry the sec their kid is born........then when it happened... Gary and I --> NIAGARA FALLS ...all the way ha ha it just happens I guess.. all tears of joy..

We all have thought in one time or another ...that we knew it all... we knew how to control kids.. all saying that we would do this and that.... I actually thought kids were just brats lol..well I did back when I never had any................then...when your child is born and you see it for the 1st time.. a sudden change happens.. you view it all through different eyes....I know I do...

CONGRATS on your news...........I hope to goodness it is born healthy and you get to experience life of being a dad...and you will love it....and may want more LOL

I have spoken to many men in the past about babies... they said that when they got to see their child come into the world... it was as if they were on a high... like time stood still... thy said they loved every sec of it........................ One man in particular ( Frank).. said his wife had a C- Section... he was present for the delivery and go to see his son while his baby son was still in the whomb... he said not every man gets to see that.. but he did.. he said no words can describe that feeling.. its just wonderful....

It is father like them I admire ........and when I hear of bad parents that hit their kids and mistreat them.. it sickens me....they do not apprecaite what they have....so I long to see proud loving parents that do appreciate it all...

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Thanks Beckysmom.

I am pretty nervous about the whole thing, as there are no books to read on how to... but I am also looking forward to it. I think I will go with my heart, and use common sense, and do my up most to bring him or her up well so they can be a well rounded adult. I know I have some battles ahead of me. But it will be well worth it.

I probably will cry yes, I am someone who cries when I see someone or an animal suffering on TV lol :blush: . I used to cry at Animal Hospital when it was on haha.

Edited by Faeden
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Thanks Beckysmom.

I am pretty nervous about the whole thing, as there are no books to read on how to... but I am also looking forward to it. I think I will go with my heart, and use common sense, and do my up most to bring him or her up well so they can be a well rounded adult. I know I have some battles ahead of me. But it will be well worth it.

I probably will cry yes, I am someone who cries when I see someone or an animal suffering on TV lol :blush: . I used to cry at Animal Hospital when it was on haha.

Gary and I thought we too should get some ooks...but see they are not much use, for the sec you become a parent, it comes naturally to you...

The only thing I found the books useful for was - colds and flu ect... for when my child at just a couple of months old, had a runny nose... or coughed a lot ect... I got scared... then read that it was common for infants to go through that... even my doc told me... so apart from that... everything else will come naturally to you

And to add --> It gave me a helpful hint on how to prevent SIDS / cot death in infants... it told me to lay my child towards the bottom of the crib...and tuck her in tight around her waist.with the blanket tucked under the mattress to hold the child in place..... it makes it very hard for the child to rurn over and suffocate....so I did just what the book suggested and hey it worked.. she never turned over on to her face and nose ...she always slept peacfully...

I am glad I did not work my child into a routine aka feeding every 2- 3 hours or so... I only fed her when she was hungry....and never once did I have a sleepless night...in fact she loved her sleep too much... she woke up around 9.30 sometimes 10 am...and lay there googling away lol... never a cry out of her.... unlike my sisters child.. she woke him up every 3 hours or less to feed him....so he then got used to it and woke up crying looking fed during the wee hours of the morning......I told her she shouldnt have done it...just let him sleep...and feed him in the morning... not go waking him up for a feed...any wonder he had them up non stop..!!!!

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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I remember a while back here in the states that some church or group started showing commercials about saving the planet. What I never understood is why should they even care? They all seem to be waiting for the world to end so they can die & go to heaven. Sounds more like they are jumping on the Go green fad more then anything.

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