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Feds oppose CA Prop 19 to legalize pot.


AROCES

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Diechecker, it's fine to have opinions, but if you've never partaken then it's like listening to my brother who never played football in his life tell me why and how the coach of his favorite team is an idiot. All he can do is repeat what he heard on TV. If you believe everything on TV or the newspapers then this will probably not be a problem for you.

i have an ankle who has been using since he was 10, if he is still alive he would be 55 now. he could have been a great chef, but he would rather work for a fast food place and spend all of his free money on dope.

true you can blame the doctors who got him hooked after he got burnt when was 8 years old but he still has had plenty of time to choose not to be.

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I'm not going to say that I and everyone I know with very few exceptions have over 30 years of daily experience. Some own businesses, homes, build planes, design some of the computer software you all use on a daily basis. I'm not going to say that. Even though it's true.

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I'm not going to say that I and everyone I know with very few exceptions have over 30 years of daily experience. Some own businesses, homes, build planes, design some of the computer software you all use on a daily basis. I'm not going to say that. Even though it's true.

Circumstantial. But if you want a similar example, when I was in the Merchant Marine we once send a guy to a doctor and he came back with a letter saying: Your sailor is very sick as he has about 2% of blood in his alcohol circulation.

That guy was perfectly functional after the first half bottle of Gin, before that completely useless. And he was a damm good Deckhand -- unless sober--.

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Diechecker, it's fine to have opinions, but if you've never partaken then it's like listening to my brother who never played football in his life tell me why and how the coach of his favorite team is an idiot. All he can do is repeat what he heard on TV. If you believe everything on TV or the newspapers then this will probably not be a problem for you.

I don't need to put a red hot knife to my eye to know it is going to hurt me. Especially if I see a family member do it to themself and get hurt by it. We don't all have to experience everything to know it is true. That is what we have education for. I've educated myself on this subject with all the retoric that the pro and con sides have offered and I still think that pot is more potentially harmful to society then potentially helpful.

If all you believe in is your personal experinces you are going to live a life of Pain and get educated at the School of Hard Knocks.

:tu:

The grocery store by my house has a seattle police officer in it 24-7. Should we ilegalize groceries? also opium does not grow out of the ground nor does cocaine, the plants these are made out of are chemically altered to become dangerous drugs. You really don't know of what you type. But go ahead and have your opinions, everybody has opinion and a-hole right :tu:

And we know which of yours that you poop your ideas out of.

What is it in that grocery store that needs a full time police officer? Does every grocery in your town need such protection? Where the hell do you live? RobberTown?

Coco leaves are still addictive and do not need much processing. The processing of cocaine is only to get the alcoloids concentrated. I googled it and seems there are as many formulas to make cocaine as there are people posting these recipes on the internet. And all of them do-able at home with common chemicals. The Columbian hill people do it with only a clay floor, some tubs and a minimum of chemicals, like gasoline.

Poppy Opium does not need much either. The stuff they take off the scarred poppy heads is basically marketable opium. Pot also does need processing. It has to be dried at a minimum. So perhaps you don't know of what YOU are speaking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine

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Nope, cocaine is the most profitable drugs for the dealers.

So, the marijuana dealers will simply switch, more turf war, more crime and violence.

As you can see your argument really is just an argument.

Ok, this doesn't take a genius to figure out.

yes, it will reduce crime in North America if we legalize it. Where I'm from guess where the majority of growers live? Hmm, that would be right here in Washington, and frankly a TON of it is transported illegally over the border from British Columbia. It's pretty rare to come by marijauana that's smuggled from anywhere other than Canada.

Illegal growers and dealers will go legit or they'll go out of business.

This won't be a problem for cocaine or heroin etc... why? Because these drugs are... well dangerous and instantly deadly for many people... but aside from that, you can't grow cocoa leaves or poppies in any great amount in north america (and it's never refined here, only cut). You kind of have to import it from foreign cartels (who will NEVER go legit). So I think you can lay your fears aside about that. Marijuana is a local crop, not one that must be imported.

Edited by MissMelsWell
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What is it in that grocery store that needs a full time police officer? Does every grocery in your town need such protection? Where the hell do you live? RobberTown?

DRUGS you know, stuff to make oxycotin and a bunch of others.

Edited by The Silver Thong
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I don't need to put a red hot knife to my eye to know it is going to hurt me. Especially if I see a family member do it to themself and get hurt by it. We don't all have to experience everything to know it is true. That is what we have education for. I've educated myself on this subject with all the retoric that the pro and con sides have offered and I still think that pot is more potentially harmful to society then potentially helpful.

If all you believe in is your personal experinces you are going to live a life of Pain and get educated at the School of Hard Knocks.

You can't seriously compare putting a knife in your eye with getting high. It just doesn't work. And since you've obviously done a poor job of educating yourself, maybe you should take another crack at it. Maybe even... actually try the experience you so vehemently renounce?! Wouldn't that be just crazy, if you actually knew what you were talking about?

I'm not saying to sell all your possessions and buy as much H as possible but believe it or not there's a difference between an addict and a user. Most potsmokers I know don't even like it when marijuana is referred to as a drug because of the negative (and false) connotation it gives.

Honestly, right now, you're like a virgin arguing against pre-marital sex. Good luck with that, stud.

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Wow. Just wow.

So it's okay to make YOUR OWN bad decisions and to hurt YOURSELF, as long as you don't use marijuana? Keeping a positive mental attitude makes people okay with alot of things. Should we ban that too? Who are you to tell someone what they can or can't do? Sure, make your own decisions, but alow others to do the same.

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DRUGS you know, stuff to make oxycotin and a bunch of others.

Well, in all fairness, you don't make "oxycontin" .... it's a prescriptin med, a derivitive of codiene, an opiate made from poppies.

There are drugs in pharmacies (and any retail convenience store really) that CAN be used for illicit purposes, one being decongestants like Sudafed which now in most pharmacies don't require a prescription, but you do have to sign a registry when you buy it, and you can't buy large quantities. This is because it's used in making methamphetamines. Sudafed on its own is chemically more dangerous than marijuana. In not so large quantities it can induce a heart attack and other problems. There are many many others over the counter that will actually kill you if you take too much, which is something marijuana won't do.

Marijuana has a lot of medical benefits... it is the best known antiemetic available (aka, anti-nausea) and there is no prescription med that can top it really. And other medical benefits that which others have mentioned and are well known. It's also recreationally viable in the same way alcohol is, but it's no where near lethal, like many many other perfectly legally meds and recreational substances. Except .... marijuana won't kill you like all the other medications and rec drugs out there. I could go into things like TI, and how the "dangerous" levels of drugs are measured... blah blah blah.... but the reality is that in the grand scheme of things in the drug world, marijuana is about as dangerous as an antihistamine... in other words... not really at all, and it is about as useful as one too which is quite a lot...

If you're going to compare marijuana in terms of usefulness and recreational benefits and side effects... compare it to Benadryl or maybe something like Marazine (sea sickness tablets) ... all three will make you a little loopy, but all three have their medical uses as well. In fact, marijuana is even less dangerous than Marazine.

Edited by MissMelsWell
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And benadryl. Take enough of those and you will have a hullicinogenic high.

Not really... but there are other over the counter drugs that any 10 year old can buy, in any quantity which are HIGHLY hallucinigenic when taken in overdose quantities. I'm not going to say what, because that would be against the rules here. Benadryl isn't one of them, but there are others. Others that are VERY common and kids are frequently hospitalized or even killed from taking overdoses of these medications for their hallucinigenic highs.

I hope I don't get into trouble for saying this... but in order ot make my point here it might be necessary...

If anything, in my experience, the psychoactive affects of marijuana is most closely similar to the effects of Kava. Kava in its pure form is not legal in the USA, but I've visited places where it is legal and I have tried it. It relaxes you, gives you a feeling of well being, reduces social anxiety, but you remain mostly mentally clear, if slightly dopey. Unlike marijuana it does not increase apatite, mostly because it has an anticeptic quality that numbs the lips, throat and mouth. Kava is also thought to possibly be rough on the liver over time.

Kava is not legal in the USA because there are no controls on its production (whcih there are none on pot right now either, unless it's medical marijuana) and the leaves and stems of the Kava plant are very toxic. You can (in the USA) buy a derivitive of kava, with the psychoactive acids removed... in other words, it's useless for the most part.

One thing legalizing pot would do is remove impurities. Currently, the street supply of pot is riddled with things like aphids, spider mites, molds, fungus, and other really nasty stuff... legalize it and it would actually become better quality in which would be much safer to use. It would also allow for users of the stuff to purchase much safer methods of delivery, such as atomizers and other paraphenalia which removes the necessity to smoke it (which has its own risks we all know). And like alcohol, Its THC content would also be regulated and controlled, unlike today's street product which can be of any strength or quality, and that's bad.

Legalizing it would be good in so many ways. It could revitalize the agricultural industry, provide much needed antiemetics to people who are ill, give people who use it illegally a way to use it legally safely (and it is as safe as many over the counter meds, if safer), I can't think of one reason it would be bad to be completely honest. And I don't even use the stuff! And, never will. I happen to know that in me, there's an adverse reaction which is very rare... it actually makes me ummm... emetic (aka, it makes me blow chunks, which is never fun)

Wouldn't it be nice to have the Hemp bans lifted in the US? Wouldn't it be great if we could STOP importing hemp goods from eastern europe? Because right now, that's what we have to do. If we could grow it in the USA, we would be able to provide much needed jobs to people... farmers, textile workers, it's a great source of paper, fuel, even timber! It's environmentally friendly, and once refined, it could be a great export for the USA, which is something we need especially right now.

Edited by MissMelsWell
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Yea why not make it legal and pack it up and sell it for $20.00 a pack people can't even hardly buy tobacco anymore. Sure it's bad for you and it kills people but look at who brought the concept into the light to start with. And then centuries down the road decide it's bad for you so lets raise the price so high people stop doing it and use the money to treat the sick with. Then we can at least sit around stoned and hungry in this broke economy.

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Ok, this doesn't take a genius to figure out.

yes, it will reduce crime in North America if we legalize it. Where I'm from guess where the majority of growers live? Hmm, that would be right here in Washington, and frankly a TON of it is transported illegally over the border from British Columbia. It's pretty rare to come by marijauana that's smuggled from anywhere other than Canada.

Illegal growers and dealers will go legit or they'll go out of business.

This won't be a problem for cocaine or heroin etc... why? Because these drugs are... well dangerous and instantly deadly for many people... but aside from that, you can't grow cocoa leaves or poppies in any great amount in north america (and it's never refined here, only cut). You kind of have to import it from foreign cartels (who will NEVER go legit). So I think you can lay your fears aside about that. Marijuana is a local crop, not one that must be imported.

AGAIN, will the marijuana dealers get a job then if you legalized it?

Illegal growers grows marijuana because of profit, if you commercialized marijuana then there will be lots of competition with growers, profit becomes small and those growing marijuana will be the regular farmers we have now and the criminals will simply move to something else.

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AGAIN, will the marijuana dealers get a job then if you legalized it?

Illegal growers grows marijuana because of profit, if you commercialized marijuana then there will be lots of competition with growers, profit becomes small and those growing marijuana will be the regular farmers we have now and the criminals will simply move to something else.

Actually history showed us, after prohibition was repealed, that this is just not the case. Bootleggers did not switch to bank robbery because all of a sudden budweiser and jack daniels drove them out of the market. Also, it is my experience that for most growers or sellers, it is a supplemental income. In other words to the best of my knowledge, the majority of these people do have jobs, probably totaly unlike people involved in the market of real drugs like cocaine or meth. The other thing the end of prohibition demonstrated was that the crime rate dropped drastically and the state and federal income went up due to taxes collected on alcohol. I think it's probably still ilegal today because many prisons are run by corporations who are paid a certain amount for each bed they have occupied. Just imagine all of the tax dollars these corporations are getting paid to have non-violent pot prisoners. Probably a much better deal than being paid the same amount for murderers and rapists.

And to address the question of where I live that would need a cop in a grocery store 24-7, I live in a very liberal part of Seattle, a very liberal city, and since we are so friggin generous homless people and runaways congregate there because they think we like to be asked for change every time we walk out our front doors. My guess is that this leads to a higher shoplifting rate, thus the extra police prescence.

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Actually history showed us, after prohibition was repealed, that this is just not the case. Bootleggers did not switch to bank robbery because all of a sudden budweiser and jack daniels drove them out of the market. Also, it is my experience that for most growers or sellers, it is a supplemental income. In other words to the best of my knowledge, the majority of these people do have jobs, probably totaly unlike people involved in the market of real drugs like cocaine or meth. The other thing the end of prohibition demonstrated was that the crime rate dropped drastically and the state and federal income went up due to taxes collected on alcohol. I think it's probably still ilegal today because many prisons are run by corporations who are paid a certain amount for each bed they have occupied. Just imagine all of the tax dollars these corporations are getting paid to have non-violent pot prisoners. Probably a much better deal than being paid the same amount for murderers and rapists.

And to address the question of where I live that would need a cop in a grocery store 24-7, I live in a very liberal part of Seattle, a very liberal city, and since we are so friggin generous homless people and runaways congregate there because they think we like to be asked for change every time we walk out our front doors. My guess is that this leads to a higher shoplifting rate, thus the extra police prescence.

Why not legalize shop lifting then, to reduce crime?.

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OMG man... The president of the coroner's society of Britain? HA! I'm sure he's out there on the streets, fighting the good fight EVERY DAY. Do you even read the nonsense that you're posting? Look at it. Please. You're just ridiculous right now.

Hey man with all due respect. Diechecker is entitled to his own opinion. I can see where some life gone bad could lead to the idea that the drug is very bad. I have read his nonsense, and actually enjoy the debate, he does have some good points. Lighten up buddy jesus.

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Why not legalize shop lifting then, to reduce crime?.

Doesn't get any more ridiculous than this folks.

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Not really... but there are other over the counter drugs that any 10 year old can buy, in any quantity which are HIGHLY hallucinigenic when taken in overdose quantities. I'm not going to say what, because that would be against the rules here. Benadryl isn't one of them, but there are others. Others that are VERY common and kids are frequently hospitalized or even killed from taking overdoses of these medications for their hallucinigenic highs.

I hope I don't get into trouble for saying this... but in order ot make my point here it might be necessary...

If anything, in my experience, the psychoactive affects of marijuana is most closely similar to the effects of Kava. Kava in its pure form is not legal in the USA, but I've visited places where it is legal and I have tried it. It relaxes you, gives you a feeling of well being, reduces social anxiety, but you remain mostly mentally clear, if slightly dopey. Unlike marijuana it does not increase apatite, mostly because it has an anticeptic quality that numbs the lips, throat and mouth. Kava is also thought to possibly be rough on the liver over time.

Kava is not legal in the USA because there are no controls on its production (whcih there are none on pot right now either, unless it's medical marijuana) and the leaves and stems of the Kava plant are very toxic. You can (in the USA) buy a derivitive of kava, with the psychoactive acids removed... in other words, it's useless for the most part.

One thing legalizing pot would do is remove impurities. Currently, the street supply of pot is riddled with things like aphids, spider mites, molds, fungus, and other really nasty stuff... legalize it and it would actually become better quality in which would be much safer to use. It would also allow for users of the stuff to purchase much safer methods of delivery, such as atomizers and other paraphenalia which removes the necessity to smoke it (which has its own risks we all know). And like alcohol, Its THC content would also be regulated and controlled, unlike today's street product which can be of any strength or quality, and that's bad.

Legalizing it would be good in so many ways. It could revitalize the agricultural industry, provide much needed antiemetics to people who are ill, give people who use it illegally a way to use it legally safely (and it is as safe as many over the counter meds, if safer), I can't think of one reason it would be bad to be completely honest. And I don't even use the stuff! And, never will. I happen to know that in me, there's an adverse reaction which is very rare... it actually makes me ummm... emetic (aka, it makes me blow chunks, which is never fun)

Wouldn't it be nice to have the Hemp bans lifted in the US? Wouldn't it be great if we could STOP importing hemp goods from eastern europe? Because right now, that's what we have to do. If we could grow it in the USA, we would be able to provide much needed jobs to people... farmers, textile workers, it's a great source of paper, fuel, even timber! It's environmentally friendly, and once refined, it could be a great export for the USA, which is something we need especially right now.

a 10 year old can buy vanilla extract around 90% alcohol.

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Doesn't get any more ridiculous than this folks.

Oh come on. Shoplifters are not violent and they are only hungry or just want some change to buy their dopes.

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You can't seriously compare putting a knife in your eye with getting high. It just doesn't work. And since you've obviously done a poor job of educating yourself, maybe you should take another crack at it. Maybe even... actually try the experience you so vehemently renounce?! Wouldn't that be just crazy, if you actually knew what you were talking about?

I'm not saying to sell all your possessions and buy as much H as possible but believe it or not there's a difference between an addict and a user. Most potsmokers I know don't even like it when marijuana is referred to as a drug because of the negative (and false) connotation it gives.

Honestly, right now, you're like a virgin arguing against pre-marital sex. Good luck with that, stud.

How about this argument, I dont have to try heroine to know that it will completly damage my body and mind. Therefore I choose not to do it. But in that instance, there are pages and pages of data that shows how bad herione is. On the other hand, There are also pages and pages of data that show that pot use is very unobstructive. And as intelligent people we can make those choices ourselves.

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Why not legalize shop lifting then, to reduce crime?.

Oh come on. Smoking marajuana is what you call a victimless crime. To counter you, why not bring back prohibition? After all alcohol is legal and yet the amount of ilegal things that result from it are numberless, drunk driving, drunk in public, domestic violence, sale to minors etc. etc.
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Oh come on. Smoking marajuana is what you call a victimless crime. To counter you, why not bring back prohibition? After all alcohol is legal and yet the amount of ilegal things that result from it are numberless, drunk driving, drunk in public, domestic violence, sale to minors etc. etc.

Children can be a victim of dopey parents.

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In 1937 the Federal government levied a tax on it, it did not outlaw it. It did not have to because it only was legal in a few states by then. Get your facts straight.

Besides when the plant was outlawed it was not the plant per se but the plant after bloom. You can still legally plant hemp, as long as you harvest before it blooms...because then it has hardly any THC.

Actually... Hemp and pot are slightly different varieties of the cannabis species, sort of like how sweet corn and field corn are both types of corn, or bread seed and opium seed are both types of poppy.

Pot can be of any of three cannabis varieties, sativa, indica, and ruderalis.

Hemp is only of the sativa variety, and it can be distinguished apart from pot mostly due to low THC levels and high CBD levels.. and the CBD counteracts THC in a way.

Hemp is grown and harvested differently than pot. It is spaced closely to discourage branching, and is not allowed to flower at all before harvest. Or the hemp is spaced to encourage heavy seed production, for oil pressing.

Cross pollination between hemp and pot does little to the hemp, but can dramatically decrease the pot plants THC levels.

Even though hemp and pot are very very close kissing cousins, the strains used are different.

There are 29 states currently that either allow hemp production, medical marijuana, or have some form of decriminalization on the books. Over half the nation...

Neat map: Norml map

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Actually... Hemp and pot are slightly different varieties of the cannabis species, sort of like how sweet corn and field corn are both types of corn, or bread seed and opium seed are both types of poppy.

Pot can be of any of three cannabis varieties, sativa, indica, and ruderalis.

Hemp is only of the sativa variety, and it can be distinguished apart from pot mostly due to low THC levels and high CBD levels.. and the CBD counteracts THC in a way.

Hemp is grown and harvested differently than pot. It is spaced closely to discourage branching, and is not allowed to flower at all before harvest. Or the hemp is spaced to encourage heavy seed production, for oil pressing.

Cross pollination between hemp and pot does little to the hemp, but can dramatically decrease the pot plants THC levels.

Even though hemp and pot are very very close kissing cousins, the strains used are different.

There are 29 states currently that either allow hemp production, medical marijuana, or have some form of decriminalization on the books. Over half the nation...

Neat map: Norml map

Whatever, I fail to see how this affirms his Dupont legend.

Edited by questionmark
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